Coconut Oil on shabbos

[Sveta]

Hello everyone. Recently I was speaking to who was using coconut oil on Shabbos as a hand moisturizer. I didn't think much on it at the time, until I realized that there are two types of coconut oils. The cheaper kind is a liquid form. The extra virgin type is solid like butter. The solid type if more prevalent, also coconut oil melts very easily.

If I were to put a block of coconut oil in my hand, it would start melting within only a few seconds of it being on my skin, as it becomes the liquid form. My concern is (and I could find nothing about it online), if one were to put a solid form coconut oil on their hand on shabbos, and it melts, wouldn't that be a problem? Since coconut oil is also used in cooking. Ie.. applying heat?

[Zelhar]

Come to Israel, here coconut oil stays liquid 8-9 months of the year.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  I don't believe it is a problem (if by the problem you are connecting it to using a bar of soap). Using bar of soap is allowed, so if this is the issue here then its not a problem from what I understand. 

 And about cooking, I don't see a problem at all with it. Their is no cooking involved at all.

[Sveta]

You're right to make the soap comparison, Tag.

I was only thinking of it scientifically that solid coconut oil, once it touches the flesh will immediately start melting....so in a way the person is applying heat to it and it makes it melt. And technically you can eat it (unlike soap- which no one can eat and dissolves rather than melts).
If it's no problem, then that's great! I was mostly concerned for my friend.

Yes Zelhar, I bet it is liquid in Israel for a good portion of the year, no worries there!

[Israel Chai]

You're right to make the soap comparison, Tag.

I was only thinking of it scientifically that solid coconut oil, once it touches the flesh will immediately start melting....so in a way the person is applying heat to it and it makes it melt. And technically you can eat it (unlike soap- which no one can eat and dissolves rather than melts).
If it's no problem, then that's great! I was mostly concerned for my friend.

Yes Zelhar, I bet it is liquid in Israel for a good portion of the year, no worries there!

First, I'd like to comment on your excellent choice of moisturizer, I use organic coconut oil as well, as it's packed with great nutrients for your skin.

Ironically, I read all the laws of cooking on shabbos this weekend. If the food gets to a point of [some yiddish word], which means 1/3 cooked, and you got it from under that to that point, you cooked it, and cooking it more above that is cooking.

If there's ice, and you touched it, you would have the same problem if what you said was a problem, because it's now melted, and cooking water on Shabbos isn't allowed. However, it simply isn't the case, and you could actually get the cocount oil to the point of being warm, under the point where a baby would retract his hand from the heat if touched, without breaking shabbos, assuming you put a covering on a flame and you placed the coconut butter square on a part of the covering of the flame that was not under it, and couldn't get it to the point of 1/3 cooked if you left it there (Rambam says 1/2).

[Israel Chai]

It does say that if fat turned into jelly, and you warm up the chicken to the point where the jelly fat turns back into liquid, it's a problem. Also, Tag's soap example doesn't work, because no chemical change occurs in the soap, the outer layer is simply washed away. I never thought about this issue, but maybe there would be a problem, consult a Rav.

My water example would say it's not allowed, but then again, you're not allowed to take an egg and cook it on the hood of your car, so maybe your hand can be considered using an item to cook, so it's not very clear.

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

Ironically, I read all the laws of cooking on shabbos this weekend. If the food gets to a point of [some yiddish word],

 Its in Hebrew and it is "Yad Soled it bo"

 and then you mention about baby- its not about baby but a normal person. Once the hand withdraws it means it is hot enough. Its a Mahloket on what's the exact temperature but its definitely in the 100 something degrees and a hand is less than that for sure (would a hand withdraw from touching a hand because it is too hot? Nope.)

[Tag-MehirTzedek]

  + about changing form- I don't think it is an issue as well because you are technically going from a solid to a SOLID as it is becoming part the hand which is a solid as well. It would be similar to squeezing oranges on Shabbat. You cannot squeeze it into an empty cup, BUT you can squeeze and orange unto a salad and it isn't considered changing the form for it, it still is considered going from a solid to a solid as the orange get's absorbed into the salad. (or any other fruit) (with lemons it is possibly even more lenient but better to do it this way as well).

 ** Maybe it (original problem) would or could be an issue for those who do not permit using regular toothpaste.

[Sveta]

Great posts!

I think it's clear. Solid to solid and it's not the temperature of yad soledet bo.

[muman613]

I have searched for any questions on this topic and cannot find any. If you ask a Rav please post what he said.