Author Topic: I don't understand  (Read 6644 times)

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Offline shai77

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I don't understand
« on: November 17, 2014, 10:24:19 PM »
How would the creator let this book be attached to the 'old' testament? Something called the Bible is supposed to be a reliable source of guidance for humanity and instead it has become a sort of 2 faced hyrda.
If non Jews were supposed to have a reliable spiritual guidebook from the creator, why didn't the authentic Bible have clear teachings for the non-Jews too, like the Noahide laws attached to it, rather than the Christian book. I'm depressed over the Abrahamic religions. Not because I don't believe Judaism is the truth but that somehow the test of life in regards to the Bible has become flawed. The Jews waited 2,000 years for the homecoming to Israel and still nothing is solved...has anything really changed over the past 2,000 years? Many of them are departing again.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 12:49:29 AM by shai77 »

Offline Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2014, 10:44:19 PM »
Of-course things changed since the exile. Even with all the problems in Israel they do not compare to being in the galut for the past 2,000 years. Things CAN be better but definitely today things are MUCH better and their is the opportunity to finally take our destiny into our hands.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline shai77

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2014, 10:52:39 PM »
Jews still quarrel among themselves as much as ever it seems...The country is sharply divided between religious and secular/non observant.
Do you think all Jews will gather together and start keeping shabbat?
Did we wait 2,000 years for a country that has Maccabee basketball teams and soccer games with the menorah emblem?
I dunno I wish there were some good cultural alternatives

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2014, 10:55:05 PM »
Why do you want to start a religious war on this forum? Unless Christians are actually trying to convert you, there is no point in this divisive talk.

Offline shai77

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2014, 11:15:43 PM »
ok sorry forget i brought it up. Was just thinking about the glorious Bible and what joy it has brought me.

Offline muman613

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2014, 12:57:55 AM »
ok sorry forget i brought it up. Was just thinking about the glorious Bible and what joy it has brought me.

Don't worry, the same things bother me from time to time. When I go to so-called 'Conservative' boards which are loaded with christians and they are talking about 'the bible' it saddens me how convoluted their understanding is, and if I say anything I am jumped on and attacked.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2014, 01:16:06 AM »
Don't worry, the same things bother me from time to time. When I go to so-called 'Conservative' boards which are loaded with christians and they are talking about 'the bible' it saddens me how convoluted their understanding is, and if I say anything I am jumped on and attacked.
Why do you need to convert Christians who are minding their own business on their own forums? I don't get it.

Offline muman613

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2014, 01:26:22 AM »
Why do you need to convert Christians who are minding their own business on their own forums? I don't get it.

This is not on 'Christian' forums. This is on things like PJTV, TheBlaze, and FoxNews...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2014, 01:29:58 AM »
There was a specific thing which upset me this evening before I left work concerning a story on TheBlaze.... I don't want to go into it but I know what it is which bothered me about the tone of that discussion.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2014, 01:33:37 AM »
Are you saying that there were anti-Semitic tones to posters?

Offline muman613

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2014, 01:44:25 AM »
Are you saying that there were anti-Semitic tones to posters?

No, I am not talking about anti-semitism...

As the original poster mentioned concerning the Torah (The Bible) and how it is misinterpreted (according to our tradition) by the other 'Abrahamic' belief systems.

The article I was upset about concerned a story on the Blaze about how NY Governor Spitzer is going to have a mock-trial against our father Abraham who will be defended by none-other-than Mr Dershowitz. He (Avraham Avinu) stands accused of CHILD ABUSE and ATTEMPTED MURDER...

First of all, I stated in my comment, Yitzak was 37 at the time of the Akeidah so 'Child Abuse' is a real stretch of the imagination...

Anyway, the comments started to discuss our forefather Yitzak as the proto-Jesus and then some discussion about how Passover was a holiday of sacrificing the 'lamb' for our sins (which Passover is NOT about at all). Anyway, the entire discussion of our Torah seemed twisted from a Jewish perspective and I felt like I should not continue posting the 'Jewish' understanding of the stories lest I be considered the spawn of satan.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/11/17/one-of-the-bibles-most-famous-figures-was-just-put-on-trial-for-attempted-murder-and-child-endangerment/
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2014, 02:35:36 AM »
You have a problem with calling it the bible, and then you say "Abrahamic religions". Abraham had 1 religion, not 3.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline shai77

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2014, 02:44:44 AM »
You have a problem with calling it the bible, and then you say "Abrahamic religions". Abraham had 1 religion, not 3.

That's true. Abraham had 1 religion. When I say 'Bible' I mean the 2 faceted Bible published throughout the world today that probably more than 90% of the world reads. My question is, why didn't the Bible and the religion founded by Abraham, have a published system for non Jews and avoid this dilemma.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2014, 03:04:37 AM »
That's true. Abraham had 1 religion. When I say 'Bible' I mean the 2 faceted Bible published throughout the world today that probably more than 90% of the world reads. My question is, why didn't the Bible and the religion founded by Abraham, have a published system for non Jews and avoid this dilemma.

We already have the Noahide laws. They can be Noahides and get plenty of reward. There's the story of Job, who was one living in Israel. When we took over Israel, we let people stay and live under Noahide laws.

Since we can't even promote it on a Jewish forum, imagine what that's like out in the world where people hate you already, and you'll understand why we aren't missionizing it, but it's there for the nations to earn their salvation whenever they decide they want their service to G-d to extend past flashes in their heart.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Super Mentalita

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2014, 04:47:48 AM »
Don't worry, the same things bother me from time to time. When I go to so-called 'Conservative' boards which are loaded with christians and they are talking about 'the bible' it saddens me how convoluted their understanding is, and if I say anything I am jumped on and attacked.

Is that the same how Jews jump on Christians sometimes when they practise their religion (i don't talk about Missionairis but about Christians in Israel who don't harm anyway and getting petrol bombed)? This is happening aswell. I know a lot of people on this forum will cry now but this are facts aswell, and i name the facts.
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We are in a new phase of a very old war.''

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2014, 06:58:31 AM »
Is that the same how Jews jump on Christians sometimes when they practise their religion (i don't talk about Missionairis but about Christians in Israel who don't harm anyway and getting petrol bombed)? This is happening aswell. I know a lot of people on this forum will cry now but this are facts aswell, and i name the facts.

They will cry. The missionaries in Israel are going into parks to get 7 year olds to convert, and offer to pay people's rent in exchange for conversion. Practice your religion, but not on us.

yeah. I feel like I already partly lost my soul to the Christian religion and ideal in some way just from growing up immersed in the culture and people whose role model is a dead Jew...People asking me to sacrifice my happiness for them in a martyr-like manner because I am related to Abraham and looking to me with expectancy of being some light to them. I guess that's what I got for dating non-Jews and not being schooled in Judaism...hindsight is always 20/20...interfaith relationships can be really dangerous.

Solomon said it best "fear G-d and keep the commandments"...wish I knew them before I went out into the world. That's life and the Bible for you. I kind of just want to curl up in a ball and forget about Judaism, the Bible and everything that comes along with it. People told me how lucky I was and how jealous they were and what a jerk I was for not being a more righteous person and I'm like yeah? try it out and see how easy it is to be one of the 'chosen ones' living in California...

It's like being a kid in a candy store where most everything is off limits. Somewhere in my mind is memories of a better life when all people had great happiness. As for the restoration of the Davidic Monarchy, the ultimate goal of Judaism, I have seen glimpses of it, and I'm not even sure whether it is something to jump for joy about. The effect it would have on Israeli society would probably be a devastating cultural conflict. But I guess the monarchy will eventually prevail. That is what I think the real question is in modern Israeli society...the monarchy of David and the Temple and how that will mesh with the secular culture. I think it's going to take a real genius and a man of great understanding or an act of G-d to bring it about.

Sounds tough. I grew up in this xfamily.org, and now I ditched all my friends, and basically stay home most of the time when I'm not working, and it looks pretty certain like even that I'm going to lose by the end of the month. It's not easy, but you are lucky if you can afford it.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Super Mentalita

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2014, 07:29:25 AM »
They will cry. The missionaries in Israel are going into parks to get 7 year olds to convert, and offer to pay people's rent in exchange for conversion. Practice your religion, but not on us.

Sounds tough. I grew up in this xfamily.org, and now I ditched all my friends, and basically stay home most of the time when I'm not working, and it looks pretty certain like even that I'm going to lose by the end of the month. It's not easy, but you are lucky if you can afford it.

I found lots of examples of Christian being Christian and getting petrol bombed and attacked by Jews as muslims. Last time me was told i spread anti-semitism by telling the truth. I will always telling the truth not only in people's favour. Get used to it.
''At the siege of Vienna in 1683 Islam seemed poised to overrun Christian Europe.
We are in a new phase of a very old war.''

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2014, 07:46:17 AM »
Many jews today because of the exile misinterpret Judaism.

In the Torah it states a chosen land for a chosen people. So you can expect that 2000 years in exile majority culture has even affected orthodox jewish thinking.

So israel today is said to be the beginning of the geula unlike the first two returns to israel. We as jews have to accept jewish Torah truth even if it is uncomfortable.

I wouldn't be sad. Just learn jewish truth and pass it on.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

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Offline nessuno

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2014, 07:57:26 AM »
Don't worry, the same things bother me from time to time. When I go to so-called 'Conservative' boards which are loaded with christians and they are talking about 'the bible' it saddens me how convoluted their understanding is, and if I say anything I am jumped on and attacked.
Obviously, people have their own understanding of the Bible and relationship with G-d.
Do you like your faith being called into question?
Are the people you encounter on conservative forums Anti Semetic (for the most part)?
You would gather more people to your beliefs if you just spoke about what you believe.  People don't want a lecture.  People don't want to be dismissed or told all that they believe about G-d is wrong.

Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline angryChineseKahanist

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2014, 10:46:38 AM »
here we go again.
why do some of you confuse people who already hate jews for christians?
don't forget obongo and his "pastor".


I'm converting to islam.
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2014, 04:58:01 PM »
I found lots of examples of Christian being Christian and getting petrol bombed and attacked by Jews as muslims. Last time me was told i spread anti-semitism by telling the truth. I will always telling the truth not only in people's favour. Get used to it.

When you say things "like get used to it", and define what you saw on a zootube clip as spreading truth, it causes tears amongst the others.

You were told that because you're pretending to fight for the rights of people in the only country in the area where they aren't beheaded.

Anyways, it would have been great if they had the petrol bombs ready when the creepers were missionizing to kiddies in the parks. I'm sure we would have both loved to see them go off a the rent-for-conversion ceremony or two. Until then, you're talking about angry people who are tired of their kids getting stolen away, so save your indignation at their minute retaliation. When the pictures of pastors and missies picking up the underage Jewish girls and then bringing them back to their corner on the street stop coming in, I'll consider a review of my hat-tip to their rudimentary attempts to protect Jewish souls.

here we go again.
why do some of you confuse people who already hate jews for christians?
don't forget obongo and his "pastor".


I'm converting to islam.


Obongo and his pastor are actual fake ones. However, I consider Martin Luther, the majority of popes, the coptics, and the majority of Catholics and Protestants and Orthodox to be what they say they are.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Super Mentalita

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2014, 05:10:40 AM »
When you say things "like get used to it", and define what you saw on a zootube clip as spreading truth, it causes tears amongst the others.

You were told that because you're pretending to fight for the rights of people in the only country in the area where they aren't beheaded.

Anyways, it would have been great if they had the petrol bombs ready when the creepers were missionizing to kiddies in the parks. I'm sure we would have both loved to see them go off a the rent-for-conversion ceremony or two. Until then, you're talking about angry people who are tired of their kids getting stolen away, so save your indignation at their minute retaliation. When the pictures of pastors and missies picking up the underage Jewish girls and then bringing them back to their corner on the street stop coming in, I'll consider a review of my hat-tip to their rudimentary attempts to protect Jewish souls.

Obongo and his pastor are actual fake ones. However, I consider Martin Luther, the majority of popes, the coptics, and the majority of Catholics and Protestants and Orthodox to be what they say they are.

So it's ok to petrol bomb a church for a Jew? Even if they just preach in their Church without bothering anyone? You think it's good that there are reports from both Jews and Muslims attacking Christians? Something you are proud of? Why are you here by the way? Did you not told us you had to leave because you was in all kind of trouble? Or was it just a scream for some attention?
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We are in a new phase of a very old war.''

Offline Rubystars

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2014, 10:30:19 AM »
How would the creator let this book be attached to the 'old' testament?

You don't really want to know the answer to that, and sadly because of forum rules, I can't really explain it for you although I'd like to.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2014, 02:28:16 PM »
You don't really want to know the answer to that, and sadly because of forum rules, I can't really explain it for you although I'd like to.

I'd so kill for a separate heated debate page with people that can be cool about it.
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Offline Rubystars

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Re: I don't understand
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2014, 03:29:37 PM »
I'm not interested in participating in a debate. I'd be interested in reading one though. I enjoy talking more than arguing, as in "this is what I believe" and "this is what I believe" rather than some kind of stupid fight amongst people who should be friendly to one another.  I don't think JTF would be a good place for a respectful discussion though at least not right now. History has shown that hasn't worked too well in the past.