Rabbi Tovia Singer tells Obama NO

[muman613]

Tovia Singer returns to the airwave with an electrifying show and incisive advice for Jerusalem’s leaders: Israel and the West will not be secure as long as the Jewish state continues to acknowledge that the Arabs’ Palestinian claims to statehood in Judea-Samaria are authentic and legitimate.  Although past terror attacks inflicted greater loss of life and limb than the savage murder of rabbis praying in a synagogue in Har Nof, few have had such a profound public impact. Jerusalem must inform Washington that at this perilous crossroad in history, restraint and vacillation, which is the failed attitude endemic to the land-for-peace political discourse over the last few decades, is a recipe for disaster.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/5913#.VHTdL3VGjUY

http://dwnmedia.israelnn.com//arutz7/shows/ts/ts24nov2014.mp3

[muman613]

Wow, just listened to this show...

All I can say is Rabbi Singer is channeling Rabbi Kahane in a sense. He says it like it is, and pulls no punches...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

No one cares what Singer says, just like no one cares what we say.

There's also something wrong with what you quoted from him.  The Israeli regime does not need to tell Obama about the failed policy of cowardice.  They don't have to tell Obama about anything.  They need to tell themselves because THEY are the ones implementing these horrific policies strenthening our enemies.  They are the ones who need convincing and obama really wouldn't matter.   But they are not convinced.  They are entrenched and further entenching themselves within the failed paradigm they refuse to let go even tho a proven failure and despite that the majority of the Jewish public opposes it..

[muman613]

No one cares what Singer says, just like no one cares what we say.

There's also something wrong with what you quoted from him.  The Israeli regime does not need to tell Obama about the failed policy of cowardice.  They don't have to tell Obama about anything.  They need to tell themselves because THEY are the ones implementing these horrific policies strenthening our enemies.  They are the ones who need convincing and obama really wouldn't matter.   But they are not convinced.  They are entrenched and further entenching themselves within the failed paradigm they refuse to let go even tho a proven failure and despite that the majority of the Jewish public opposes it..

If you listened and you learned you would hear what Rabbi Singer is saying. That we must ensure that our leaders know what to tell obama. What the subject of this thread is is my expounding on this idea, that we must do what is right.

[muman613]

I must also complain KWRBT that our voices do make a difference. Certainly we cannot gauge the effectiveness of our efforts but I refuse to accept that we have no effect, no voice, nor any influence on the world around us.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

If you listened and you learned you would hear what Rabbi Singer is saying. That we must ensure that our leaders know what to tell obama. What the subject of this thread is is my expounding on this idea, that we must do what is right.

That is exacctly what I interpreted from what you quoted.  And I am disagreeing with him.   Please read my comment again.  Obama is not the problem.

[Israel Chai]

I get what kwrbtewsgf was saying, but he doesn't have to attack the Rabbi or demean what he said to do so. Israeli leaders should also tell themselves not to implement the policies along with telling Osama they won't.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I get what kwrbtewsgf was saying, but he doesn't have to attack the Rabbi or demean what he said to do so. Israeli leaders should also tell themselves not to implement the policies along with telling Osama they won't.

 


I did not belittle the rabbi whatsoever.  Stick to factual discussion, please.

[muman613]

That is exacctly what I interpreted from what you quoted.  And I am disagreeing with him.   Please read my comment again.  Obama is not the problem.

You are not disagreeing then, because once a Jewish leader can tell Obama no to suicide plans, then the problem is solved by itself. The issue is knowing what we are doing is the right thing even if it runs against what the president desires.

[muman613]

 


I did not belittle the rabbi whatsoever.  Stick to factual discussion, please.

Let's be honest KWRBT.... You said that nobody cares what he says, and nobody cares about what we say... In a way you did speak against him (honestly there are a lot of people who care about what he says, as there are who care about what Chaim says)...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

You are not disagreeing then, because once a Jewish leader can tell Obama no to suicide plans, then the problem is solved by itself. The issue is knowing what we are doing is the right thing even if it runs against what the president desires.

Nope.  I did disagree.  And your explanation here is faulty.

I disagree very strongly with the perspective of both you and Rabbi Singer. The perspective underlying his comments and yours is that bibi and company really want to do the right thing, are totally equipped mentally and physically to do so, and accept philosophically and axiomatically why it must be done, but (says bibi) "oy va voy, we cannot face obama or stand up to his pressure and gosh we just haven't thought of the simple way to explain it to obama yet, so therefore we instead have no choice but to implement horrific Jew-hating policies of cowardice which get Jews murdered."

There is no evidence for this view.  It is in fact a rather convoluted conspiracy theory.

My perspective, which I believe is fact-based, and which is very different from yours and Singers, is that bibi acts consistently with his beliefs (and/or desires), and he pursues the policies of cowardice because he believes in those policies axiomatically.  He thinks it is the true and only path to peace.  He only wishes that obama and the world players would praise him for his actions instead of attacking him.   He only wishes there would be positive PR in the news for Israel so he could use it as leverage in whatever foolhardy negotiations he's engaged in to surrender the Jewish future and win the nobel peace prize.
"Pressure" is a convenient excuse to hide from rightwing scrutiny and nothing more.

All of the tough-guy talk by bibi (and by the way there's a lot less of that these days!  He publicly proclaims many leftist policies he never would have dared supported in public in his younger days because it would have killed his career) is meant to mislead the nationalist public.  Whatever snippets of tough talk or Jewish pride we hear is purely for rightwing consumption to win him elections and keep him in power.  His ACTIONS indicate that he fully supports the two state paradigm and sees no other acceptable way forward.   All his actions from his first election as prime minister in the 90's until today suggest I am right.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Let's be honest KWRBT.... You said that nobody cares what he says, and nobody cares about what we say... In a way you did speak against him (honestly there are a lot of people who care about what he says, as there are who care about what Chaim says)...

You misinterpreted my comment.  I was LAMENTING the fact that no one of political power or influence cares what he says on the matter, just as I lament that they do not care what we say.   If it was not true, someone would be implementing our policies by now.   Not one word of what I said was intended to belittle Rabbi Singer.

I, kwrbt, say bibi ought to tell obama to p.iss off.   Who cares what I say?  Bibi does not want to tell obama that and he does not have a philosophical reason to want to.   Please think about it.  We do not operate from the same starting principles, hence the "not caring what we say" part.

It's like a medical doctor who says we need to give dialysis to a kidney patient and telling it to a witch doctor or voodoo shaman.  The witch doctor doesn't accept scientific fact and doesn't care what a medical doctor says.

[Israel Chai]

 


I did not belittle the rabbi whatsoever.  Stick to factual discussion, please.

[censored] invalid, reread what I wrote.