Why do cantors in Deform & CONservative temples face the people?

[ChabadKahanist]

Not only that their tuchis is towards the aron kodesh.
I believe that they change the practice from facing the ark to facing the people as well as mixed gender seating comes from their desire to be more like their Christian neighbors.

[Aluf Abir]

They want to emulate the late, great, cantor's son, Al Jolson.

[ChabadKahanist]

They want to emulate the late, great Al Jolson.

Mammy!!!
 

[muman613]

They want to emulate the late, great, cantor's son, Al Jolson.

I dont think he was a Cantor himself though.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The history of reform movement which originated in Germany is full of examples where the founders made changes to seem more similar to the gentiles and their churches as a way to combat antisemitism. They openly wrote about these things as this was one of their core philosophies..

[muman613]

I suspect it is part of the 'reforms' made to the traditional service.

Among these include changes such as removing all mentions of Jerusalem from the service, adding mention of the matriarchs during the Amidah, and of course the ditching of the mehitza.

[muman613]

You realize at one time 'Deformed' Judaism actually observed the Shabbat on Sunday in order to be more like the gentiles. They often also have pipe organ music on Shabbat (just like the church).




Look at this section of Amidah and tell me how it differs from the traditional one:

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

You realize at one time 'Deformed' Judaism actually observed the Shabbat on Sunday in order to be more like the gentiles. They often also have pipe organ music on Shabbat (just like the church).




Look at this section of Amidah and tell me how it differs from the traditional one:

Yup!

They also at one point banned the kippa.  Lol

[Aluf Abir]

I dont think he was a Cantor himself though.

Bite thy tongue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfLLZfbyyKs

[muman613]

Bite thy tongue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfLLZfbyyKs

He played one in a movie.. No doubt his father was a Rabbi and his family came from a long line of rabbis, he himself never got smicha to be a rabbi (and I think cantors need rabbinic ordination).

[Aluf Abir]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIaj7FNHnjQ

Yo. He don't need no rabbinic ordnation.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

A cantor just needs a voice.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Instead of mevi Goel, it says mevi Geula. I guess it's because they don't believe in a Redeemer (Mashiach). But their geula is not the real Redemption either.

They also say mechayei hakol rather than mechayei meitim since they deny Techiat HaMeitim.

[ChabadKahanist]

He played one in a movie.. No doubt his father was a Rabbi and his family came from a long line of rabbis, he himself never got smicha to be a rabbi (and I think cantors need rabbinic ordination).

Cantors do not need smicha or ordination they just have to have a good voice & know nusach.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Cantors do not need smicha or ordination they just have to have a good voice & know nusach.

The Conservatives actually give Cantorial degrees in their seminary in New York. Originally Cantors were considered to be clergy members in the United States.

As for facing the people, it seems like they are "performing" for the congregation as if it is a concert. They also read the Torah near the Ark. Orthodox synagogues read the Torah in the center of the room.

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Here you can see their about their Cantorial school. The "cantor" that now heads it performs using Kol Isha since she is a woman.

http://www.jtsa.edu/News/Press_Releases/New_CS_Director.xml

[ChabadKahanist]

The Conservatives actually give Cantorial degrees in their seminary in New York. Originally Cantors were considered to be clergy members in the United States.

As for facing the people, it seems like they are "performing" for the congregation as if it is a concert. They also read the Torah near the Ark. Orthodox synagogues read the Torah in the center of the room.

I am talking in authentic Judaism a Cantor does not need smicha or any sort of a degree just know nusach & have a good voice.

[muman613]

I am talking in authentic Judaism a Cantor does not need smicha or any sort of a degree just know nusach & have a good voice.

I suppose a lot of Jewish singers can consider themselves cantors today...

How about Neil Diamond:



Even Babs Streisand can be called a cantor...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I am talking in authentic Judaism a Cantor does not need smicha or any sort of a degree just know nusach & have a good voice.

Correct.

[Aluf Abir]

Does a cantor have to be Jewish?

[ChabadKahanist]

Does a cantor have to be Jewish?

Absolutely!!!!
At least in an Authentic shul it could only be a Jew,perhaps in a Reform or Conservative temple where they make their own rules & anything goes

[Binyamin Yisrael]

I am talking in authentic Judaism a Cantor does not need smicha or any sort of a degree just know nusach & have a good voice.

I know.

[muman613]

We call them Shazzams  No, I meant Chazzans...

http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/181,165/What-is-a-chazzan.html


A. A Chazzan (pronounced KHAH-zahn) is a cantor, the Jewish religious official of a Shul who conducts the liturgical or musical part of the service and sings or chants the prayers intended to be performed as solos. Chazzanut (pronounced khah-zah-NOOT), or the cantorial arts, extends back in Jewish history to the era of the Temples, and indeed, up until about the 60s, every major synagogue, particularly those in New York, had its own full-time, world-class chazzan to boast of. Today, regretfully, professional chazzanim are few and far between, as grand, old-style, ornate and ceremonial synagogues have by and large faded away.

B. The chazzan's tonal quality, voice and style are similar to that of opera--don't be surprised if a recording of the late Yossele Rosenblatt, the greatest chazzan of this century, reminds you of Pavarotti.

C. In the Mishnah and Talmud, the phrase means "spotter" or "seer," referring to teachers who would lead students through the text at hand with their melodic sing-song style. The word eventually came to refer to the singer who would lead the congregation in shul through the prayers at hand. Today, as most shuls do not have regular chazzanim, the word chazzan just means the community member who volunteers to lead the service, whose voice invariably is dramatically non-dramatic.

He doesn't sing to entertain the congregation--he humbly uses his G-d-given gifts to uplift and inspire himself and whoever happens to be listening

What do chazzanim do?

1. Power vs. Personality

Despite his thundering sweet voice, the ideal chazzan is a prayer, not a performer. He doesn't sing to entertain the congregation--he humbly uses his G-d-given gifts to uplift and inspire himself and whoever happens to be listening. Likewise, a congregation attends services to connect to G-d with a little cantorial assistance, and not to take in a great vocal performance. A chazzan who gets full of himself is frowned upon.

2. Origination vs. Imitation

Despite the Nusach, or textual/musical standard adhered to by each shul and community, a professional chazzan is expected to compose an original tune or two, and sing some of the standard Tefillot to them. A chazzan's repertoire should consist of synagogue nusach and established classics of the great masters (such as Kol Nidrei or Rosenblatt's Yehi Ratzon) sprinkled lightly to moderately with his own works and adaptations.

3. Dress Up and Teach

A professional, hired chazzan traditionally wears a large, puffy cap that vaguely resembles a chef's hat. The cap strikingly contributes to the solemn shul atmosphere, especially on the High Holidays of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, a chazzan’s biggest days. A flourishing, cloak-like robe accompanies the cap to complete the picture of piety. In addition to his Shabbat and holiday duties, shuls employing full-time chazzanim often have a choir consisting of community boys and men at the chazzan's disposal. The chazzan's weekday duties are to train and teach his choir to sing in harmony with him, usually requiring afternoon or evening practice sessions.

[muman613]

All this talk about cantors makes me want to listen to some great Chazzans.

[muman613]

We start our Shabbos morning Shacharit with this song: