Ruth's Conversion

[Sveta]

Hello,
Would anyone have any knowledge on how Ruth converted. It seems to have happened when Naomi told her to go back and Ruth refused stating the famous lines of "your people are my people, your G-d is my G-d"

The issue with this, is that she was married to a Jewish man before saying these words. So, how could she have married Mahlon and then became a widow and then said the words that made her Jewish. Could there have been an intermarriage in this case with Ruth and Mahlon? Ruth married Boaz after her vow.

I believe there is an opinion that Ruth had done some type of a "conversion as a child" and therefore was allowed to marry Mahlon and only when speaking with Naomi did she do the "final test of conversion".... whatever that means.

Anyways, can anyone clarify if there was some type of intermarriage. I have heard all things- that Ruth's name was Gillith and then took the name Ruth, signifying she was allowed to marry. Could she have had a servant type of conversion that would have made her marriage to Mahlon valid. Yet, I heard she was the daughter of a Moabite king- why would the daughter of a Moabite king be converted to Judaism as a child?

It's been bothering me that I cannot answer this when arguing with people against intermarriage.


(As far as King David, I know he had some issues with people trying to deligitimize him and his Jewishness because his great grandmother was a Moabite, however as we all know, that was a non-issue since female Moabites were allowed and she was only his paternal great grandmother and King David's mother was born Jewish)

[muman613]

IsraeliHeart, very interesting questions and I am sure you get all kinds of arguments supporting intermarriage. But according to  sources she had a valid conversion before marrying Boaz. As you point out her marriage to Machlon was not kosher... Read this article...

http://www.torah.org/learning/ruth/class15.html

Conversion

The story of Ruth chronicles its heroine’s transformation from a Moabite maiden to the mother of Israelite monarchy. When did Ruth accept the religion of Israel? It is clear that as she arrives to Bethlehem, she is fully keeping the laws and customs of Israel. She gleans in the fields, participates in Levirite marriage, and expresses herself in the language of Israelite religious sensibilities and concepts. It is clear then that Ruth became a Jewess before her arrival to Bethlehem, but was it all the way back before her marriage to Machlon or only on the road to Bethlehem?

It is tempting to assume that Ruth converted before her marriage. This would explain her attachment to Naomi, her suitability for Levirite marriage to Boaz, her eagerness to leave Moab for Judea, and it would rescue Machlon, Kilyon (“two great leaders of Israel”, Rambam Kings 5:9), and Naomi from the opprobrium of participating, or condoning, an intermarriage. It is hard to imagine that faithful Naomi, on whose lips the name of Hashem dwelt, would form a relationship so genuinely close and affectionale with “the daughter of a foreign god”. To say that Intermarriage was not favorably viewed by the prophets and judges of Israel is an understatment(See Malachi 2:11, Deuteronomy 7:3-4, Ezra 10). Intermarriage is a basic betrayal of innermost religious values for it is a very basic commitment to share love, life and innermost personal sanctum with someone who thinks, hopes, longs, believes and dreams with a different sensibility – hence the appellation “daughter of a foreign god (Malachi ibid)”. Accordingly, it cannot be that Machlon, who we already established was a worthy man, intermarried. “R. Pedas asked the son of R. Yosi, man of Soko, “Since Ruth converted (from the beginning) why did they not give her a new (Jewish) name? He said to him: “ I received a tradition that that she had another name. When she married Machlon… they called her Ruth for she converted when she married Machlon and not afterwards. He responded, “But it says ‘…where you lean (your head), so I will lean, where you go, I go, your people is my people and your G-d is my G-d!’ (implying that the conversion took place only at that point)…(Zohar Ruth 79a).” According to this view, Ruth converted before marraige.

Almost the entire consensus of rabbinic commentary is, however, to the contrary. From the Aramaic Targum to Ruth to Talmud, which derives laws of conversion from the conversation between Ruth and Naomi (Yevomos 47b), it is assumed that Ruth committed to Judaism on the way to Bethlehem. Machlon and Kilyon married Moabites. “ Machlon and Kilyon were culpable of being destroyed by G-d because they took wives of another faith (Bava Bathra 91b)”.

Even if they were Moabites and did not convert, how could Naomi propose that her daughters-in-law “return to your people and your god (Ruth 1:15)”. It is , however, less of a problem than suggesting that Naomi advised her Jewish daughters-in-law to go worship idols.

How we resolve this difficulty has implication for other similar passages, the marriages of Smason and Solomon for example. Fortunately, these at first glance disparate interpetations and their Scriptural antecedents can be agreeably reconciled.

R. Moshe Shternbuch in his Moadim V’Zmanim 4, 316 suggests that Ruth converted conditionally before marriage and that the conversion took effect retroactively when she opted to abandon Moab and to go to Judea. The involved halachic discussion is beyond our purview; however, Jewish Law knows two types of conditional conversions. The first one is conversion of a minor by a parent; upon reaching the age of majority the child can choose to finalize the conversion or to withdraw from it. The other one is a conversion that may have been for ulterior motives, wealth, security, or marriage but could also possibly be sincere. Such conversions are discouraged; however, if performed by an unscrupulous or ignorant rabbinic court, they are held in probation until the circumstances change and there is no longer an ulterior gain. If the convert continues to hold on faithfully, the conversion is valid from the beginning; if he or she abandons it, it is prima facie invalid. Thus, Ruth’s premarital conversion was conditional for she may have converted solely for purposes of marriage. When she left her native land and followed Naomi to a life of hardship and loneliness, she demonstrated the purity and sincerity of her original commitment.

Although conversion takes effect with a ritual (circumcision and immersion before a court of three rabbis for men or immersion for women) its actual fulfillment is in the heart. Jewish Law knows of many such rituals. Mourning for example is effected with tearing one’s clothing or sitting on the ground but it is fulfilled through emotion that these acts engender. The commandment to rejoice on a Festival is fulfilled by eating and drinking with company at a holiday meal but its fulfillment is the feeling of joy that the meal and the company generate. Similarly, conversion involves a ritual but it primarily takes place in the heart. The convert may be sure of the purity of her intent,or she may be deluding herself. When money, marraige or status is involved, the future will tell.

One of my teachers drew this parallel on the occasion of my ordination. He sat with me and explained that the document of ordination, the passing of examinations, even the countless hours spent in study and preparation is not what makes a rabbi. “Ordination is like conversion. It requires a ritual but it is affected within. It can take many years until the original motivation becomes apparent and declares itself. May you be fortunate that your old age justify your young age (Sukka 53a)”.

Ruth completed and validated her original conversion with the decision to accompany Naomi to Bethlehem. However, her journey had started ten years earlier. They arrive at harvest time, in the spring, at the time of renewal and it is then that the new chapter begins.

[Sveta]

Muman, I am so happy that you replied. I am going to sleep right now, but will read your reply at a break tomorrow.

Just recently, I have been loosing the debate- people saying the intermarriage prohibition was only for the Cannanite nations, the beautiful captive etc..etc.. I'll be back tomorrow. Thank you.

[muman613]

Some more reading material on this topic:


http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rabbi-category/the-jewish-calendar-and-holidays/?p=1336



http://www.beingjewish.com/identity/kingdavidjew.html
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Ruth and Naomi went to the Land of Israel. There, Ruth met Boaz, and they got married. They had a son named Oved. Oved had a son named Jesse, and Jesse had a son named David. That David later became the King David. So, King David was also descended from Gentiles. Was King David Jewish?

Some people argue that if Ruth was not Jewish, neither were her children, and therefore King David was not Jewish.

The first and obvious problem with that argument is that Ruth was not King David's mother. She was his great-grandmother. Let's assume for now that she did not convert to Judaism. If her son Oved married a Jewish woman, then his son Jesse was Jewish anyway. Even if Oved married a Gentile woman, if their son Jesse married a Jewish woman then their son David was still Jewish!

So even if Ruth did not convert, you still have to prove that King David's mother was not Jewish. So far, no one has furnished me with any proof of this at all. It does not matter at all whether Ruth converted, if King David's mother was Jewish.

But let us consider: did Ruth convert? Well, first of all, it's pretty logical to assume that she did, since the Torah explicitly forbids us to marry Gentiles who have not converted. In Deuteronomy 7:3 the Torah tells us, "Do not marry with them; your daughter you may not give to a Gentile's son, and you may not take a Gentile's daughter for your son." Why? Because, says the Torah, "For he will take your son away from Me, and they will worship the gods of others..." (ibid., verse 4). (See my article, "Judaism: Race, Religion, or Ethnicity?" for further explanation of this Commandment.)

Note, by the way, that the Torah's prohibition against marrying a Gentile applies to both a Jewish man marrying a Gentile woman, and a Jewish woman marrying a Gentile man. Both are forbidden.

So we have no reason to assume that Ruth didn't convert. Boaz, the leader of his generation, would not have married a Gentile woman who had not converted. Remember, Ruth went to Boaz because he was the next closest relative to her dead husband, and therefore it was his obligation to marry her to give her the children her dead husband never gave her (Ruth 2:20; 3:3; 3:12; and Chapter 4). But if she had not been Jewish, Boaz would not have had such an obligation at all!

However, since there are people who, for no clear reason, still insist that Ruth did not convert, I will demonstrate from the Book of Ruth itself that Ruth did convert.

In Ruth 4:11, it says:

And all the people at the gate as well as the Elders were witnesses, and they said, May Hashem let this woman who is joining your household be like Rachel and Leah, both of whom built the House of Israel, and may you do great things in Efras, and be considered significant in Bethlehem. And may your home be like the home of Peretz son of Judah and Tamar, from the offspring that Hashem will give you from this young woman.

Note that the Elders of Israel were among the witnesses. They witnessed and approved of this marriage. Moreover, they obviously expected that Hashem will favor that marriage. Would they have felt that way if Ruth had not converted to Judaism? If Boaz was transgressing the Torah's Commandment against marrying a Gentile woman, would they have blessed the marriage? Would they have blessed her to become as great as the Matriarchs Rachel and Leah? It seems rather clear that Ruth converted to Judaism. Therefore, any children she had were Jewish. This is my own observation and the logic is inescapable.

Some argue that "there was no conversion process back then." I must wonder how they know this. They simply mean to say that they do not believe that the Laws of Judaism existed back then, and therefore it was okay to marry Gentile women. This entails ignoring the Torah's Commandment not to marry Gentiles.

Not only that, but the great people of Jewish history certainly did not consider it permitted to marry unconverted Gentiles from any other nation.

Let's take Moses, for example. Moses was married to an Ethiopian woman, Zipporah. Yet when the soldiers brought back Gentile women from Midian, Moses got angry at them (Numbers 31:14-15). What was the difference? The difference is that Zipporah converted to Judaism.

How do we know that Zipporah converted? Because we know that she kept the Commandments. When Moses failed to circumcise his son because he was afraid that the traveling would kill him, what did Zipporah do? "Zipporah took a (sharp) rock and cut off the foreskin of her son..." (Exodus 4:25). Evidently, Zipporah was an observant Jew.

Intermarriage is also mentioned in 1 Kings, Chapter 11:

King Solomon loved many Gentile women, such as the daughter of Pharaoh, Moabite, Amonite, Edomite, Sidonite, and Hittite women. They are Gentiles, about whom Hashem told the Children of Israel "Do not intermarry with them and do not let them intermarry with you, for they will surely influence you towards their religions." Those are the people that Solomon clung to in love. He had seven hundred queen-wives, and three hundred concubines, and these women influenced him.

When Solomon grew old, his wives influenced him towards their gods, and thus his heart was not complete in his service of Hashem, as his father David's was....

Hashem said to Solomon, Since this is the way you are, and you have not fully obeyed My covenant and My Laws that I commanded you, I shall tear part of the kingdom from you, and I will give it to one of your subjects. I shall not do this in your lifetime, for the sake of your father David. I shall tear it away from your son.

We see here that the prophets considered what King Solomon did, in marrying Gentile women, to be a sin. Had they fully and properly converted, they would not have influenced him away from Hashem. (Bear in mind that the Talmud says that King Solomon never actually worshipped any idols, but since he did not stop his wives from doing so when he could have, Hashem considered it as if it were King Solomon's own sin.)

Even back then, evidently, there was a process of conversion. Thus we have amply proven that Ruth was a convert, just like Sarah, Rebecca, Leah, Rachel, Bilha, and Zilpah. And as I said above, in any case the nationality of Ruth would not have thrown into question the Jewishness of King David, who was her great-grandson.

I wish to reiterate that absolutely none of what I wrote here is my own opinion. Everything in this article I took from the Talmud and other Rabbinic Writings from over a thousand years ago. None of this is my own interpretation, and none of this did I think up on my own, unless I explicitly said so.

[Sveta]

Again, thank you Muman for the articles!

For how Ruth married Mahlon, it could be a matter of personal opinion if she had conditionally done some type of conversions before marrying him. But, had she not done so and been married to him, the marriage would have not been valid and therefore Boaz would not have had a claim to marry her.
There are a lot of things that are not truly mentioned, and yet it's still obscure. If this is the case, then what happened to Orpha? She returned to Moab, so was her conditional conversion undone?

Great points though

[kyel]

Does anyone know what the original conversion process to Judaism was? Was it just assimilating into the Hebrew society?

[Binyamin Yisrael]

Orpah was the ancestor of Goliath. She went four steps so Goliath merited to take four steps before being killed by David. Also when Orpah went back to Moab, not only did she not become Jewish, but she also went out and participated in an orgy.

[Sveta]

Orpah was the ancestor of Goliath. She went four steps so Goliath merited to take four steps before being killed by David. Also when Orpah went back to Moab, not only did she not become Jewish, but she also went out and participated in an orgy.

That's part of the problem. If she did not become Jewish because she went back to Moab....how was she able to marry Chilion then?

[Binyamin Yisrael]

That's part of the problem. If she did not become Jewish because she went back to Moab....how was she able to marry Chilion then?

I thought originally that Naomi's sons were evil for intermarrying in Moab. Then Ruth converted after Naomi discouraged her three times. I guess that's the simple version. But you can read in your ArtScroll Book of Ruth about all the details in the commentary.

[Sveta]

I thought originally that Naomi's sons were evil for intermarrying in Moab. Then Ruth converted after Naomi discouraged her three times. I guess that's the simple version. But you can read in your ArtScroll Book of Ruth about all the details in the commentary.

But, if that was the case, then Ruth and Mahlon were never really married and therefore Boaz would not had claim to her through the Levirate marriage as kinsman to Mahlon... So, that leads us back to the beginning.