Author Topic: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown  (Read 4435 times)

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Offline Binyamin Yisrael

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2015, 09:31:44 PM »
BTW the Saladin whom Rambam was physician to was the very Saladin which fouight against the Christian crusaders...

Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb (Kurdish: سەلاحەدینی ئەییووبی/Selahedînê Eyûbî; Arabic: صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب‎) (1137/1138 – 4 March 1193), better known in the Western world as Saladin, was the first Sultan of Egypt and Syria and the founder of the Ayyubid dynasty. A Muslim of Kurdish origin,[4][5][6] Saladin led the Muslim opposition to the European Crusaders in the Levant. At the height of his power, his sultanate included Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, Hejaz, Yemen and other parts of North Africa.


At that time Muslims were actually the lesser of the evils. The Crusaders were evil. The Muslims also stopped Byzantine World domination. Muslims were also advanced at the time when Europeans were living in a dark age. Eventually Islam set in and they became dumb. Now the Muslims and Christians have switched places. The Jews lived better under Muslim rule than Christian rule at the time. Egypt in the time of Sadat can't be compared to during the life of Rambam. If you want to compare Egypt under Sadat with Egyptian History, comparing it with Pharaoh in the Torah is a better comparison. Modern Egypt has been the most vicious enemy of Israel since 1948. Egypt is the only country that borders Israel that was involved with all four major wars between 1948 and 1973. Now Egypt engages in taqiyya in order to enable the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis in Gaza to fight Israel and Egypt is friends with all the enemies of Israel.


Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2015, 10:16:04 PM »
Let's break this down into the simplest form possible.... "Hey, religious person, please pray for me!" Steve was way holier than I! Steve, please put in a few good words for me!?!

Our soul still exists in the next world!
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Online Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2015, 11:05:32 PM »
Let's break this down into the simplest form possible.... "Hey, religious person, please pray for me!" Steve was way holier than I! Steve, please put in a few good words for me!?!

Our soul still exists in the next world!


 Your logic vs. Halacha. I choose Halacha.
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline eb22

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2015, 12:28:43 AM »
There have been others.

Do you have any specific information on who the others are?

As a Chabad supporter and someone who enjoys a number of sports,  I definitely would be interested in the information if either you and/ or another JTF member can provide it.   Thanks. 
"Israel's leaders seem to be more afraid of Obama than they are of G-d. Now we're getting to the real root of the problem. Secular politics won't save Israel. Denying the divine nature of the Jewish State has brought Israel neither stability nor peace. When that changes Israel will finally be blessed with both in abundance"-----------NormanF   ( Posted on Israel Matzav's Blog )

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Offline muman613

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2015, 01:30:44 AM »
Here is what Torah.org publishes concerning halachas, Talmudic opinion, and current traditions regarding visiting the graves of Tzadiks. And I do not think Ephriam quite understands what a Tzadik is in this regard. Torah and Mitzvot, and being a pillar of the community, are traits of a Tzadik.



http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5767/vaera.html

Visiting the Graves of Tzadikkim: How and Why?

The ancient custom of visiting and davening at graves of tzaddikim during times of tribulation has many sources in Talmudic literature.(1) Indeed, Shulchan Aruch records in several places that it is appropriate to do so on certain public fast days in general(2) and on Tishah b'Av after midday in particular.(3) Erev Rosh Hashanah, too, is a day when it has become customary to visit graves.(4) But what is the reason for this? How does it help us?(5)

The Talmud(6) gives two explanations: 1) To serve as a reminder of man's mortality so that one will repent while he still can; 2) To ask the dead to pray for mercy on our behalf. A practical difference between these two reasons, says the Talmud, is whether or not it is appropriate to visit graves of non-Jews [when there are no Jewish graves near by], since even a non-Jew's grave reminds man of his mortality. Nowadays, however, when non- Jews mark their graves with religious symbols, it is no longer appropriate to visit non-Jewish graves even if there are no Jewish graves in the area. (7)

The second reason quoted in the Talmud - to ask the dead to pray for mercy on our behalf - demands clarification. Many people assume that this means that we are allowed to pray to the dead to ask them to help us. This is a serious mistake and strictly forbidden. One who prays with this intent transgresses the Biblical command(8) "You shall not recognize the gods of others in My presence."(9) It may also be a violation of the Biblical command against "one who consults the dead."(10)

If so, what does the Talmud mean when it says that we "ask the dead to beg for mercy on our behalf"? We find two schools of thought concerning this matter:

* Some(11) hold that it means that it is permitted to speak directly to the dead to ask them to daven to Hashem on our behalf. This is similar to the prayers that we find throughout Selichos which are addressed to the angels. Although the angels - who are merely God's messengers - do not possess the ability to do anything of their own accord, still we may ask them to "deliver" our prayers to Hashem. So, too, it is permitted to address the dead directly and ask them to intercede on our behalf at the Heavenly Throne.

* Others(12) strongly disagree and maintain that this, too, is strictly forbidden. In their opinion, addressing a dead person is a violation of "consulting the dead." What the Talmud means by "asking the dead to pray for mercy on our behalf" is that we daven directly to Hashem that in the merit of the dead He should have mercy on us. We visit the graves only to remind Hashem of the merits of the holy tazddikim who are interred there.

The practical halachah is as follows. Most of the classical poskim (13) rule in accordance with the second view. Mishnah Berurah(14) also clearly writes: We visit graves because a cemetery where tzaddikim are interred is a place where prayers are more readily answered. But one should not place his trust in the dead. He should just ask Hashem to have mercy on him in the merit of the tzaddikim who are interred here.

But other poskim rule that it is permitted to talk to the dead [or to angels] to intercede on our behalf. In a lengthy responsum, Minchas Elazar(15) proves from a host of sources throughout the Talmud and Zohar that not only is this permitted but it is a mitzvah to do so.

But as we said before, all opinions - without exception - agree that it is strictly forbidden to daven directly to a dead person [or to an angel] so that they should help us. The most that is permitted [according to the lenient views] is to ask them to act as our emissaries to Hashem, so that Hashem will look favorably and mercifully upon us.

THE VISIT: PROPER CONDUCT

Upon entering a cemetery, the blessing of asher yatzar eschem badin is recited.(16) The full text is found in many siddurim. This blessing is recited only once within any thirty-day period.(17)

Before visiting at a grave, one should wash his hands.(18)

Upon reaching the grave, one should place his left hand on the marker.(19) It is forbidden, though, to lean on it.(20)

One should be careful not to step on any grave.(21)

The same grave should not be visited twice in one day.(22)

Within four amos [6-8 feet] of a grave(23):

* The tzitzis strings should be concealed.(24)

* Levity, eating, drinking, greeting a friend or engaging in business is prohibited.(25)

* Learning, davening or reciting a blessing is prohibited.(26) Many poskim, however, hold that it is permitted to recite Tehillim(27) or the burial Kaddish.(28)

LEAVING A CEMETERY

Before taking leave of a grave it is customary to put a stone or some grass on the marker.(29)

Upon leaving the cemetery, it is customary to take some soil and grass from the ground and throw it over one's shoulder.(30) There are many different reasons for this custom. On Shabbos, Yom Tov and Chol ha-Moed this may not be done.(31)

After leaving a cemetery and before entering one's home(32) or another person's home,(33) one should wash his hands three times from a vessel, alternating between the right and left hands.(34) There are different customs concerning the method of washing(35):

* The water should drain into the ground and not collect in a puddle.

* After washing, any water that remains in the vessel is poured out. The vessel is turned upside down and placed on the ground, not handed to the next person.(36)

* Some let their hands air dry and do not use a towel.(37)

* Some wash their face as well.(38)

Footnotes:

1 Yosef cried at his mother's grave before going to Egypt (Sefer ha- Yashar); Before being exiled, the Jewish people wept at Kever Rachel (Rashi, Vayechi 48:7); Kalev prayed at Me'oras ha-Machpeilah before confronting the spies (Sotah 34b). See also Ta'anis 23b.

2 O.C. 579:3.

3 Rama O.C. 559:10.

4 Rama O.C. 581:4. Some go on erev Yom Kippur as well (Rama O.C. 605:1) while others oppose going on that day; Elef ha-Magen 605:39 quoting Yaavetz; Divrei Yoel 99:4.

5 Our discussion focuses on visiting graves on fast days and at other times of strife. This is not to be confused with the custom of visiting graves of parents and other relatives (on their yahrtzeits or other occasions), whose primary purpose is to elevate the soul of the deceased and to give it "pleasure."

6 Ta'anis 16a.

7 Mishnah Berurah 579:14. See also Kaf ha-Chayim 559:81.

8 Shemos 20:3.

9 See Sefer ha-Ikarim (ma'amar 2), quoted in Gesher ha-Chayim 2:26.

10 Devarim 18:11. See Eliyahu Rabbah 581:4.

11 See Shelah (quoted by Elef ha-Magen 581:113), Pri Megadim O.C. 581:16 and Maharam Shick O.C. 293.

12 The source for this view among the Rishonim is Teshuvos Rav Chaim Paltiel (quoted by the Bach and Shach Y.D. 179:15) and Maharil, Hilchos Ta'anis (quoted by Be'er Heitev O.C. 581:17). See Igros Moshe O.C. 5:43-6 for an explanation of this view.

13 Including the Be'er Heitev, Chayei Adam, Mateh Efrayim and Kitzur Shulchan Aruch.

14 581:27.

15 1:68. See also Gesher ha-Chayim 2:26 and Minchas Yitzchak 8:53.

16 O.C. 224:12. This blessing is recited only in an area where there are at least two graves.

17 Mishnah Berurah 224:17.

18 Mishnah Berurah 4:42.

19 Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 128:13. See there also for the text that should be recited at that time.

20 Shach Y.D. 363:3.

21 Taz Y.D. 363:1.

22 Mishnah Berurah 581:27.

23 Note that according to the Ari z"l (quoted by Mishnah Berurah 559:41), one should never go within four amos of a grave [except at interment]. In Igeres ha-Gra he writes that one should never enter a cemetery at all, and especially not women. [It is commonly accepted that a woman who is a niddah does not go to a cemetery at all (Mishnah Berurah 88:7). Under extenuating circumstances a rabbi should be consulted; see Beis Baruch on Chayei Adam 3:38.]

24 Mishnah Berurah 23:3. Tefillin, too, must be concealed.

25 Y.D. 368:1; Rama Y.D. 343:2.

26 Y.D. 367:3; 368:1.

27 Birkei Yosef Y.D. 344:17.

28 Gesher ha-Chayim 1:16-4.

29 Be'er Heitev O.C. 224:8.

30 Y.D. 376:4. Some do this only after an interment.

31 O.C. 547:12.

32 Kaf ha-Chayim 4:80.

33 Mishnah Berurah 4:43. It is permitted, however, to enter a shul or another public place before washing; Harav M. Feinstein (Moadei Yeshurun, pg. 58).

34 Mishnah Berurah 4:39.

35 Some of these customs do not have a halachic source; they are based on Kabbalistic writings and customs.

36 Rav Akiva Eiger (Y.D. 376:4). See Zichron Meir, pg. 450.

37 Several poskim write that this does not apply during the cold winter months when the hands will become chapped; see Kaf ha-Chayim 4:78.

38 Mishnah Berurah 4:42.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14


Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2015, 06:51:58 PM »
 

 Your logic vs. Halacha. I choose Halacha.
:::D
But seriously.... Why would asking a dead Tzadik to pray for me be any different than asking living people to pray for me? It's not like doing seances or using a ouija board....
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 07:04:30 PM by Ephraim Ben Noach »
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2015, 07:01:32 PM »
Tag, you have never had a oneway conversation with a deceased relative?

Psalms 91:11... How could angels protect me?
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Online Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2015, 07:31:31 PM »
Tag, you have never had a oneway conversation with a deceased relative?

Psalms 91:11... How could angels protect me?


No
.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline Ephraim Ben Noach

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2015, 08:34:27 PM »

No

Give me a break! You have never said I love and miss you in your head at a gravesite to a loved one?
Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the horn, and the people be not warned, and the sword do come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Offline Yehudayaakov

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2015, 04:32:07 AM »
A -self- jew sure _hatin_

Online Tag-MehirTzedek

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2015, 07:15:27 PM »
Sources with Rambam, Shulhan Aruch (codes of Jewish Law) forbidding such practices.

http://www.hakirah.org/Vol15Zuriel.pdf

.   ד  עֹזְבֵי תוֹרָה, יְהַלְלוּ רָשָׁע;    וְשֹׁמְרֵי תוֹרָה, יִתְגָּרוּ בָם
4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked; but such as keep the law contend with them.

ה  אַנְשֵׁי-רָע, לֹא-יָבִינוּ מִשְׁפָּט;    וּמְבַקְשֵׁי יְהוָה, יָבִינוּ כֹל.   
5 Evil men understand not justice; but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Offline muman613

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Re: Horse Named After BHO Wins Triple Crown
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2015, 12:46:17 AM »
Sources with Rambam, Shulhan Aruch (codes of Jewish Law) forbidding such practices.

http://www.hakirah.org/Vol15Zuriel.pdf

Well, the conclusion of the PDF you posted does not say anything about it being 'Avodah Zarah' nor does it say it is outright prohibited...

This is how it concludes:

Quote
Therefore, although those who do visit graves have reliable Rabbis who taught them to do so, he who wishes to be 100 percent proper, and not to do anything which is possibly forbidden, should take into account our great Masters listed above.

I abide by the Rabbis who taught me, and according to the Halachas I posted above, it is an acceptable practice to daven in the merit of a deceased Tzadik.

See opinions of the Be'er Heitev, Chayei Adam, Mateh Efrayim and Kitzur Shulchan Aruch.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14