Author Topic: Kilav (Kileab) son of David  (Read 2617 times)

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Offline edu

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Kilav (Kileab) son of David
« on: July 20, 2015, 11:59:21 PM »
http://halakhah.com/pdf/zeraim/Berachoth.pdf
Talmud Tractate Brachot page 4 as translated by soncino
Quote
Thus spoke David before the Holy One, blessed be He: Master of
the world, am I not pious? All the kings of the East and the West sit with all their pomp among their
company, whereas my hands are soiled with the blood [of menstruation], with the foetus and the
placenta, in order to declare a woman clean for her husband.12 And what is more, in all that I do I
consult my teacher, Mephibosheth, and I say to him: My teacher Mephibosheth, is my decision
right? Did I correctly convict, correctly acquit, correctly declare clean, correctly declare unclean?
And I am not ashamed [to ask]. R. Joshua, the son of R. Iddi, says Which verse [may be cited in
support]? And I recite Thy testimonies before kings and am not ashamed.13 A Tanna taught: His
name was not Mephibosheth. And why then was he called Mephibosheth? Because he humiliated14
David in the Halachah. Therefore was David worthy of the privilege that Kileab15 should issue from
him. R. Johanan said: His name was not Kileab but Daniel. Why then was he called Kileab? Because
he humiliated [maklim] Mephibosheth [ab]16 in the Halachah. And concerning him Solomon said in
his wisdom: My son, if thy heart be wise, my heart will be glad, even mine.17 And he said further:
My son, be wise, and make my heart glad, that I may answer him that taunteth me.18
Footnotes
(12) The restrictions of Lev. XII, 2ff do not apply to all cases of abortion nor is all discharge treated as menstrual, and
David is represented as occupying himself with deciding such questions instead of with feasting. MS.M. omits ‘blood’.
(13) Ps. CXIX, 46.
(14) The homiletical interpretation of the name is, Out of my mouth humiliation.
(15) Cf. II Sam. III, 3.
(16) Lit., ‘father’, a teacher.
(17) Prov. XXIII, 15.
(18) Ibid. XXVII, II.

Offline edu

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Re: Kilav (Kileab) son of David
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2015, 12:16:08 AM »
A question needs to be asked about this Gemara. In Sanhedrin 93b it is implied that the Halacha always followed David, while in the Talmudic passage cited above it implies that sometimes the Halacha was not like David but rather like Mephiboshet.
Eitz Yosef (in the Ein Yaakov commentary) answers that really all the time the Halacha was like David. However, he wasn't always able to defend his Torah positions from the questions raised by Mephiboshet, so David said I will have to take his stringent opinion and not my lenient opinion to be sure that the Halacha is being kept.
Kilav later on was so smart and blessed with wisdom that he was able to show that David was actually right all along and Mephiboshet was wrong and he was able to draw from all the Torah sources available to prove his point.

Offline edu

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Re: Kilav (Kileab) son of David
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2015, 11:39:44 PM »
The Talmud in tractate Shabbat 55b says that Kilav was one fo 4 people that died only because of the decree of death brought to the world due to the seduction of the serpent to sin in the Garden of Eden.
The other 3 were Binyamin (Benjamin) son of Yaakov (Jacob), Amram father of Moshe (Moses) and the father of David.