Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
what does the Torah say about satan
Shlomo:
From what I understand, the English translation of the Torah is a terrible thing to use when dealing with this subject. There are numerous words translated in this and each one means something different. I wish my Hebrew was better.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Shlomo on December 03, 2007, 03:33:43 AM ---From what I understand, the English translation of the Torah is a terrible thing to use when dealing with this subject. There are numerous words translated in this and each one means something different. I wish my Hebrew was better.
--- End quote ---
all the translations are all quite bad on everything, and my hebrew is terrible. But I know because there is a way to get the right translation of hebrew words!!
The same way that tralsnators have. A CONCORDANCE!
There is a piece of christian software I acquired, called "Bible Desktop"
It is fantastic.. You click a hebrew word, and all occurrences come up, and you can see the trananslation given and context of each.. You see how bad the translations are.. You can also search for roots, using wildcards like
*bra* as in create.
An example of its brilliant use,,
Beraishit, if you look for othe occurrences, you see that Rashi is right, it means In the beginning Of. The other occurrence is Beraishit malchut which means in the beginning of the reign of. So the first verse can be translated as In the beginning of G-d creating the heaven and the earth. Or as In the beginning of G-d`s creation of the heaven and the earth.
A mistralsnation I spotted was BIRDS we always learn that G-d created the fishand the birds on day 5. But if you look up the hebrew word "off" translated as birds, you see it refers to 4 winged insects, so e.g. FLIES. Of course, flies were created in day 5. Another translation is fowl , which is some biological classification, which is even worse. A proper translation for "off", is "Flying things".
Another translation I have refers to things that crawl in the water. When it is not. It is things that MOVE in the water.
If you want to get each word perfectly translated, it would take a while. But for specific words you are interested in, it is perfect.
One thing which my rabbi - an orthodox rabbi - mentioned, was BDB (he mentioned it in shul and is quite strict and doesn`t like saying things of other religions in shul.. I stupidly expanded it "brown driver briggs", I should have just nodded. Anyhow, he said some people consider it apikorus/forbidden kind of thing, because of its authors, but it is good. It has all the roots and translations.
If an orthodox rabbi recommends something done by a christian, then it must be exceptionally good!!!!! And it means he knows of no jewish equivalent unfortunately. I have heard 2 rabbis recommend it.. one I trust alot, and he would not recommend something unless he thought its contents was kosher.
There is also another christian thing, a guy called Gesenius who wrote something about the translation of hebrew words in Genesis. A jewish thing, which is a very very authoritative book, is the Even Shoshan concordance. But it has no english.
I highly recommend "bible desktop".
it is more convenient than any of those books.
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: Shlomo on December 03, 2007, 03:33:43 AM ---From what I understand, the English translation of the Torah is a terrible thing to use when dealing with this subject. There are numerous words translated in this and each one means something different. I wish my Hebrew was better.
--- End quote ---
The Artscroll and Kehot translations are probably the two most accurate ones.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on December 03, 2007, 09:06:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shlomo on December 03, 2007, 03:33:43 AM ---From what I understand, the English translation of the Torah is a terrible thing to use when dealing with this subject. There are numerous words translated in this and each one means something different. I wish my Hebrew was better.
--- End quote ---
The Artscroll and Kehot translations are probably the two most accurate ones.
--- End quote ---
I would add, a linear translation of the chumash that I Have. By Rabbi Pesach Goldberg, published by Feldheim. As people may know. Feldheim is very good, and logically speaking, one would expect a linear translation to have been done with care.. It seems to be geared towards children, but that may be good, because the words in biblical hebrew are simple, and should not require complex english words.
if it is only certain words that one has issue with, then the most accurate translation is the one you do yourself.
Another example of bad translations..
G-d regretted having created man..
I wondered and wondered...
When say say G-d was angry, that means angry in a way befitting a creator, of course, and it is metaphorical, of course. But it is not a weakness.
Regretted is a human weakness... How is that befitting the creator.
One would resolve it by saying G-d acted in a way similar to how a person would have reacted if he were to regret. (just as when G-d is angry).
But there is actually a more direct answer to this problem.. It does not say regret.
I recall, looking at bible desktop, the word appeared elsewhere and was translated as Jacob being comforted.
Regret and comfort?!!!
The answer is, this is figured out
in Rabbi shimshon rephael hirsch`s etymological dictionary of biblical hebrew.. the word nechama , or its root, means *change of emotion* . like a polar reversal. If you were angry, then are now pleased. If you were pleased, then are now angry..
So it simply means that G-d`s attitude towards the people changed, obviously as a result of their sins.
See.. All these translations of the whole tenach. Are bad.. Sure, some are better than others. But you are not getting an accurate translation.
If you have specific words you wonder about, you can do it yourself easily...
Bible desktop,
and what helps also, Rabbi Shimshon Rephael Hirsch`s etymological dictionary of biblical hebrew.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on December 04, 2007, 11:03:54 AM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on December 03, 2007, 09:06:00 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shlomo on December 03, 2007, 03:33:43 AM ---From what I understand, the English translation of the Torah is a terrible thing to use when dealing with this subject. There are numerous words translated in this and each one means something different. I wish my Hebrew was better.
--- End quote ---
The Artscroll and Kehot translations are probably the two most accurate ones.
--- End quote ---
I would add, a linear translation of the chumash that I Have. By Rabbi Pesach Goldberg, published by Feldheim. As people may know. Feldheim is very good, and logically speaking, one would expect a linear translation to have been done with care.. It seems to be geared towards children, but that may be good, because the words in biblical hebrew are simple, and should not require complex english words.
if it is only certain words that one has issue with, then the most accurate translation is the one you do yourself.
Another example of bad translations..
G-d regretted having created man..
I wondered and wondered...
When say say G-d was angry, that means angry in a way befitting a creator, of course, and it is metaphorical, of course. But it is not a weakness.
Regretted is a human weakness... How is that befitting the creator.
One would resolve it by saying G-d acted in a way similar to how a person would have reacted if he were to regret. (just as when G-d is angry).
But there is actually a more direct answer to this problem.. It does not say regret.
I recall, looking at bible desktop, the word appeared elsewhere and was translated as Jacob being comforted by getting married, after his sadness from his mother`s death.
Regret and comfort?!!!
The answer is, this is figured out
in Rabbi shimshon rephael hirsch`s etymological dictionary of biblical hebrew.. the word nechama , or its root, means *change of emotion* . If not a polar reversal, then a negation at least. Anger becomes Pleasure and vice versa. Sadness becomes Happyness. Or rather, Anger becomes not anger. Sadness becomes not sad..
So it simply means that G-d`s attitude towards the people changed, obviously as a result of their sins.
See.. All these translations of the whole tenach. Are bad.. Sure, some are better than others. But you are not getting an accurate translation.
If you have specific words you wonder about, you can do it yourself easily...
Bible desktop,
and what helps also, Rabbi Shimshon Rephael Hirsch`s etymological dictionary of biblical hebrew.
--- End quote ---
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