Public Displays of Affection!

[Merkava]

I have been made aware that several fellow JTFers go dogging for recreational purposes. 

[Dr. Dan]

Jewish men are not prohibited from simply touching women according to the Rambam and many Orthodox Rabbis.  Only the Chassidim and some Charedim prohibit this. 

You are right, there are opinions that say that non-affectionate touching is permitted under certain circumstances, while there are others that say that Shomer Negia is de'oraita and therefore touching is always forbidden. However, it is a matter of humra that the former group mentioned strive to avoid touching woman as much as possible for the possibility, however small or large, that the touching will lead to the matters that I will enumerate below. According my own reading of the Rambam, you can't even go near her. There are matters of Derech Hiba, whether the touching was affectionate.

"...Or if he hugged and kissed in a lustful manner or derived pleasure from the closeness of the flesh, then he gets flogged by Torah law...'That you should not do the abomidable statutes'...'Don't come close to uncover the shame'... meaning don't come near to those things that lead to sexual immorality...a person is forbidden to make signs with his hands or feet or eyes... or to play with her, or to be light-headed with her... even to smell the perfumes that she is wearing or to gaze at her beauty is forbidden... we flog someone who intends to do these things... even if one sees the little finger of a woman with the intention of enjoying it, it is as if he has looked at the genital area... even to hear the voice of the woman... or to look at her hair--it is forbidden."

For everyone else who is wondering how then can one get married, the Rambam goes on to list the permissibility of looking at a woman in a certain way for the sake of matrimony and dating.

I'll say one thing about a married man who practices shomer negia...it's rather nice when his wife knows that her husband only thinks of her and doesn't even look at another woman..

[Just Erica]

Jewish men are not prohibited from simply touching women according to the Rambam and many Orthodox Rabbis.  Only the Chassidim and some Charedim prohibit this. 

You are right, there are opinions that say that non-affectionate touching is permitted under certain circumstances, while there are others that say that Shomer Negia is de'oraita and therefore touching is always forbidden. However, it is a matter of humra that the former group mentioned strive to avoid touching woman as much as possible for the possibility, however small or large, that the touching will lead to the matters that I will enumerate below. According my own reading of the Rambam, you can't even go near her. There are matters of Derech Hiba, whether the touching was affectionate.

"...Or if he hugged and kissed in a lustful manner or derived pleasure from the closeness of the flesh, then he gets flogged by Torah law...'That you should not do the abomidable statutes'...'Don't come close to uncover the shame'... meaning don't come near to those things that lead to sexual immorality...a person is forbidden to make signs with his hands or feet or eyes... or to play with her, or to be light-headed with her... even to smell the perfumes that she is wearing or to gaze at her beauty is forbidden... we flog someone who intends to do these things... even if one sees the little finger of a woman with the intention of enjoying it, it is as if he has looked at the genital area... even to hear the voice of the woman... or to look at her hair--it is forbidden."

For everyone else who is wondering how then can one get married, the Rambam goes on to list the permissibility of looking at a woman in a certain way for the sake of matrimony and dating.

I'll say one thing about a married man who practices shomer negia...it's rather nice when his wife knows that her husband only thinks of her and doesn't even look at another woman..

Amen, Doc.

[Dr. Dan]

"...Or if he hugged and kissed in a lustful manner or derived pleasure from the closeness of the flesh, then he gets flogged by Torah law...'That you should not do the abomidable statutes'...'Don't come close to uncover the shame'... meaning don't come near to those things that lead to sexual immorality...a person is forbidden to make signs with his hands or feet or eyes... or to play with her, or to be light-headed with her... even to smell the perfumes that she is wearing or to gaze at her beauty is forbidden... we flog someone who intends to do these things... even if one sees the little finger of a woman with the intention of enjoying it, it is as if he has looked at the genital area... even to hear the voice of the woman... or to look at her hair--it is forbidden."

So then why do religious women wear makeup or perfume since it will attract men to look at them?

They wear make up or perfume not to attract men, but because he makes them feel good to look good.  

Yaacov, why do men or women wear nice clothing?  Because it can make one feel good to wear something nice and give that person confidence..and with that confidence help others...and be an effective person.

[Karen]

All this prudishness.

Obviously people don't want to see people making out in public, but come on! Will touching your wife in public or going arm in arm be SO disastrous?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

All this prudishness.

Obviously people don't want to see people making out in public, but come on! Will touching your wife in public or going arm in arm be SO disastrous?

 One thing always leads to another, + their are other issues involved (because people would know when a lady a nidda, which is just not proper for others to know), and in the right society (and their are places that exist like this today) kids should not be exposed to these things incorrectly at least. First they will see married couples kissing, etc. and then they will do the same with others. And their are other issues involved.

[AsheDina]

Yes, of course you would PUBLICLY WANT to display your affection, with someone that you LOVE..holding hands, is very nice.

[NuclearKindness]

no comment

No comment is also a comment
Private displays of affection are ok. Public eh not so much

[NuclearKindness]

I'm going to second that....

you got it lol

[NuclearKindness]

He is Orthodox, he is a great Rabbi, and a personal friend.

i am sure he is all those. Whats his name so I can be friends with him too?