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Pre-Sinaitic Noahides

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Raulmarrio2000:
Does anyone know about traces of the Noahide Covenant among Peoples who have not received the word of the Torah given at Mount Sinai? The Noahide Covenant existed since 700 years before the Torah was given, but it was almost forgotten by most nations, and was only rediscovered when Moshe received the Torah. So all Noahides today derive their Commandments from the Torah. However, there are traces of the history of the Mabul in Peoples who do not know the Torah. Ancient Greeks knew a distorted version of the Flood, some African tribes too. Many other nations know at least some of the seven Laws.
And what about animals? They are suppossed to have no soul, and no free will, but what about these verses?

Bereshit 9:
(5) And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it; and at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man.

(12) And G-d said: 'This is the token of the covenant which I make between Me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

(15) that I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

(16) And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between G-d and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.'

(17) And G-d said unto Noah: 'This is the token of the covenant which I have established between Me and all flesh that is upon the earth.'

These verses seem to indicate that the Covenant includes animals, they will be pusnished in case of killing a man, and they are also promised that there will no more flood. Most Animals avoid eating flesh from another living animal, and kill it before eating. What do you think of it?

newman:

--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on September 23, 2007, 08:38:43 PM ---I know that animals are required not to have sex with animals of difference species and they didn't follow that before The Flood. Man was evil with robbery and sexual immorality and even animals committed sexual immorality with animals of different species.

You should ask Lubab about that. He is JTF's Forum Rabbi.



--- End quote ---

I read an opinion that Abraham was taught by a descendant of Noah. Has anyone else heard this?

newman:
Then people should stop being jeolous of the Jews and starting new (false) religions. We are ALL descended from Noah. Jews (the seed of Abraham, Issac and Jacob) are just a group G_d burdoned with 'priestly nation' status (and 613 Mitzvot) for our benefit. Non-Jews are the lucky ones. We're living off the spiritual 'labour' of the Jews.

Raulmarrio2000:

--- Quote from: newman on September 23, 2007, 09:38:25 PM ---Then people should stop being jeolous of the Jews and starting new (false) religions. We are ALL descended from Noah. Jews (the seed of Abraham, Issac and Jacob) are just a group G_d burdoned with 'priestly nation' status (and 613 Mitzvot) for our benefit. Non-Jews are the lucky ones. We're living off the spiritual 'labour' of the Jews.

--- End quote ---

That's right Newman. The world stands on the Israelites (the priests). At first G-d planned to give the Torah to Mankind (613 mitzvot) but, as we are sinners and Adam eat the forbidden fruit, the Torah was given only to Israel. So Israelite avodah ( especially the 70 korbanot brought at Succot, now replaced by the prayer of Musaf) are for our benefit.
However, Rabbis teach that even though a Goy must not create a new religion, he is not guilty for being Christian or anyother non-pagan religion, since it is considered shituf, something that is only forbidden to Jews.
BTW, if a Goy is jealous of the Jews..... would he be willing to keep the 613 mitzvot by himself??? Suerely not! Then, thanks to the Jews who keep them in our place!

newman:

--- Quote from: Raulmarrio2000 on September 23, 2007, 11:36:38 PM ---
--- Quote from: newman on September 23, 2007, 09:38:25 PM ---Then people should stop being jeolous of the Jews and starting new (false) religions. We are ALL descended from Noah. Jews (the seed of Abraham, Issac and Jacob) are just a group G_d burdoned with 'priestly nation' status (and 613 Mitzvot) for our benefit. Non-Jews are the lucky ones. We're living off the spiritual 'labour' of the Jews.

--- End quote ---

That's right Newman. The world stands on the Israelites (the priests). At first G-d planned to give the Torah to Mankind (613 mitzvot) but, as we are sinners and Adam eat the forbidden fruit, the Torah was given only to Israel. So Israelite avodah ( especially the 70 korbanot brought at Succot, now replaced by the prayer of Musaf) are for our benefit.
However, Rabbis teach that even though a Goy must not create a new religion, he is not guilty for being Christian or anyother non-pagan religion, since it is considered shituf, something that is only forbidden to Jews.
BTW, if a Goy is jealous of the Jews..... would he be willing to keep the 613 mitzvot by himself??? Suerely not! Then, thanks to the Jews who keep them in our place!

--- End quote ---

Right on, Raul.

We should all count ourselves lucky G_d put the yoke of the 613 Mitzvot 'round the Jews' necks and not ours. Every time I eat a bacon sandwich on the beach on Saturday I count my blessings.

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