Author Topic: Am I Jewish?  (Read 5090 times)

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Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2020, 10:23:56 PM »
No. Since there are two sets of Divine Commandments, I can't ACT if I don't know WHAT I AM. This is beyond pain. It is a perversion which prevents me from following the commandments I am supposed to follow, whatever those may be.

There is one set of commandments. You are either a Noachide or a Jew considered capitve at birth, and are obligated to keep the Noachide laws. You do not know if you are Jewish and are forbidden to keep Torah law to some extent. Until you know, you're fine, delaying knowing might be another issue. What you are doing now is righteous. Hashem doesn't ask anyone to do more than they can.

And finally "Most people start their search for the divine by losing their sense of humor" Noah Ben Shea, Jacob's Ladder. - Don't.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Offline Aces High

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2020, 12:59:22 PM »
Cool discovery.  Even if your great-great grandmother were Jewish, it's only about 6% of your bloodline.  I would guess there are thousands of non -Jews with Jewish lineage somewhere in their family tree.

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2020, 01:04:57 PM »
The cemetery said they do not know the meaning of the star. Furthermore, they said the cemetery does not decide which symbols are put on the grave. The owner of the grave has exclusive authority to put whatever he wants.

I will call the local priest and ask about the certificates of baptism. I still need to find my older maternal ancestors, but for now, I have no definitive proof that I am a Jew.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2020, 02:15:43 PM »
The cemetery said they do not know the meaning of the star. Furthermore, they said the cemetery does not decide which symbols are put on the grave. The owner of the grave has exclusive authority to put whatever he wants.

I will call the local priest and ask about the certificates of baptism. I still need to find my older maternal ancestors, but for now, I have no definitive proof that I am a Jew.

Looks like you got more 'vestigating. Hashem always seems to make things fun.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2020, 12:45:17 PM »
The priest said he does not know the specific meaning of the star. He confirmed that the owner of the grave can put whatever he wants. Furthermore, he said that he does not have the older certificates of baptism. The municipality has them, and I will need to request official copies. I don't know how long this process will last.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 07:31:27 PM by Hrvatski Noahid »

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2020, 03:23:42 PM »
Do you have the equivalent of Standesamt in Croatia?

The priest said he does not know the specific meaning of the star. He confirmed that the owner of the grave can put whatever he wants. Furthermore, he said that he does not have the older certificates of baptism. The municipality has them, and I will need to request official copies. I don't know how long this process will last.

Hashem wants a broken spirit. He got what he wanted. As for me, my dream of living a joyful life, of serving God with happiness...that dream is gone.

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2020, 11:17:38 PM »
Do you have the equivalent of Standesamt in Croatia?

Yes of course.

The municipality said they started keeping records in 1888. Since Eva was born before that, I can't get the certificate of baptism from them. However, I can get the death certificate, and I should be able to get it soon. 

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2020, 10:13:03 AM »
The death certificate does not give any information about her religion. To find the older documentation, I need to visit the National Archives, which has documents from the beginning of the 13th century. My hope is that I will be able to find the certificates of baptism there.

Because the star may simply indicate the year of birth, I will continue to follow the 7 commandments for now. I refuse to believe that God would hold that against me.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2020, 12:41:01 PM »
The death certificate does not give any information about her religion. To find the older documentation, I need to visit the National Archives, which has documents from the beginning of the 13th century. My hope is that I will be able to find the certificates of baptism there.

Because the star may simply indicate the year of birth, I will continue to follow the 7 commandments for now. I refuse to believe that God would hold that against me.

Yes, and it would be a major issue if you started dressing like a Satmar guy when you found the symbol.
The fear of the L-rd is the beginning of knowledge

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2020, 11:47:07 PM »
My beloved teacher wrote something so reassuring that it made me cry:

B"H

Hello Robert,

I noted that you wrote, "I refuse to believe that G-d would hold that against me."
You stated that correctly, because the truth is that He would not. It's not necessary to refuse to believe that something is not the case, when it's a know fact that it's not. You can just accept the fact that it's not.

For example, you don't have to refuse to believe that wood is metal. You can just accept the fact that wood is not metal, and not be conflicted about that issue, because that's the truth of the matter.

Have a good rest of your week!
Michael

Offline briann

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2020, 12:10:32 AM »
I just saw the grave of my maternal great great grandmother. There is a Star of David next to the birth year and a cross next to the death year. Does this imply that she was born a Jewess and died a Christian? Her first name was Eva, which is either a Christian name, or a Latin form of the name Hava.

I have lived as a Noahide for 11 years. Am I actually Jewish? I have no words to describe the doubts and stress I am experiencing right now.

Do you know when she died?  Are there any other symbols?

Typically, only men had the Star of David on their graves during the turn of the century, and women had a candelabra.

Offline Israel Chai

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2020, 12:53:17 AM »
Do you know when she died?  Are there any other symbols?

Typically, only men had the Star of David on their graves during the turn of the century, and women had a candelabra.

Typically, no one in recent millenia uses that star for anything but Jewish graves, and add some pretty things to it and some Masons use it. They didn't have Jews for Stupidity and all that stuff yet.
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Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2020, 02:20:54 AM »
Do you know when she died?  Are there any other symbols?

Typically, only men had the Star of David on their graves during the turn of the century, and women had a candelabra.

I don't wish to share the year publicly. There is another big cross that dominates the grave. It is hard to see the small Star of David, but it's there.

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2021, 07:24:25 PM »
About a year ago I found a disturbing implication I might be Jewish. I believe I now have an authoritative explanation. In Croatian, a cross before a year indicates the year of death and is usually used together with a star which indicates the year of birth. The source is "Croatian Orthography" by Babić and Moguš, 2011, page 113. I still think using religious symbols in this way is incredibly stupid, but I am relieved.

Offline Dovid_2

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2021, 08:45:56 PM »
About a year ago I found a disturbing implication I might be Jewish. I believe I now have an authoritative explanation. In Croatian, a cross before a year indicates the year of death and is usually used together with a star which indicates the year of birth. The source is "Croatian Orthography" by Babić and Moguš, 2011, page 113. I still think using religious symbols in this way is incredibly stupid, but I am relieved.
Here is my own experience with someone who became affiliated with Judaism from your part of the world.

The man was a Slovenian with a father who was perhaps Jewish, but only in part.  The man worked as a metal machinist when Slovenia was a Soviet satellite, and then later was in the military, but he had antisocial traits which caused him to be cast out in one way or another, until he finally 'embraced' Judaism and somehow convinced the authorities to let him emigrate as a Jew.

He married an Israeli woman, of Iraqi extraction, but of a racial minority that perhaps resembles Europeans more than Semites (maybe Yazidi?).  She was undoubtedly Jewish.  She married him because he was uncircumcised, and remains so, and I assume that the novelty excited her, because she remains with him until today, eventhough he is openly unfaithful to her.

Now, most importantly, you asked how can one truly knoe if you're Jewish...  Well, here's my test...  This Slovenian man's son is an antisemite, so something inherent in this mans nature, or perhaps the subconscious antisemitism crept through during this boys adolescence.

In his aging state, the Slovenian more and more disassociates with Jews and seeks to reconciliate with Christians.  He loves Putin.

That said, this man's efforts to "connect" with his Jewish roots shouldn't be taken lightly.  This man speaks fluent hebrew - better than me, and both my parents speak Hebrew.

Now I don't know you personally, you could very well be Jewish, but before you do anything drastic, I just implore you to look deep within your soul and ask yourself this question:  If you had a son - would your son be an antisemite.

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2021, 08:54:06 PM »
Here is my own experience with someone who became affiliated with Judaism from your part of the world.

The man was a Slovenian with a father who was perhaps Jewish, but only in part.  The man worked as a metal machinist when Slovenia was a Soviet satellite, and then later was in the military, but he had antisocial traits which caused him to be cast out in one way or another, until he finally 'embraced' Judaism and somehow convinced the authorities to let him emigrate as a Jew.

He married an Israeli woman, of Iraqi extraction, but of a racial minority that perhaps resembles Europeans more than Semites (maybe Yazidi?).  She was undoubtedly Jewish.  She married him because he was uncircumcised, and remains so, and I assume that the novelty excited her, because she remains with him until today, eventhough he is openly unfaithful to her.

Now, most importantly, you asked how can one truly knoe if you're Jewish...  Well, here's my test...  This Slovenian man's son is an antisemite, so something inherent in this mans nature, or perhaps the subconscious antisemitism crept through during this boys adolescence.

In his aging state, the Slovenian more and more disassociates with Jews and seeks to reconciliate with Christians.  He loves Putin.

That said, this man's efforts to "connect" with his Jewish roots shouldn't be taken lightly.  This man speaks fluent hebrew - better than me, and both my parents speak Hebrew.

Now I don't know you personally, you could very well be Jewish, but before you do anything drastic, I just implore you to look deep within your soul and ask yourself this question:  If you had a son - would your son be an antisemite.

The answer to your question is no, my son would not be an antisemite. For generations, all my maternal ancestors have identified as Gentiles and my Gentile identity is very important to me. I accepted the 7 Noahide commandments in 2009. I plan to marry a Noahide woman and raise my children to be Noahides. 

Offline Dovid_2

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2021, 09:33:53 PM »
The answer to your question is no, my son would not be an antisemite. For generations, all my maternal ancestors have identified as Gentiles and my Gentile identity is very important to me. I accepted the 7 Noahide commandments in 2009. I plan to marry a Noahide woman and raise my children to be Noahides.
I would not suggest you get circumcised.  You will not get a good result unless you travel to somewhere where there are experienced doctors who know how to perform the operation on an adult.

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2021, 09:41:33 PM »
I would not suggest you get circumcised.  You will not get a good result unless you travel to somewhere where there are experienced doctors who know how to perform the operation on an adult.

I have no Torah Law obligation to get circumcised, and no desire to.

Offline Dovid_2

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2021, 10:50:00 PM »
I have no Torah Law obligation to get circumcised, and no desire to.
Then I will grant you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are in the minority of those who are uncircumcised but do not 'spend the days and nights lusting after women', as stated by a great Jewish sage of the 13th century, the son-in-law of Don Astroc des Gabbai, whos works are only partially extant.

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2021, 11:02:43 PM »
Then I will grant you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are in the minority of those who are uncircumcised but do not 'spend the days and nights lusting after women', as stated by a great Jewish sage of the 13th century, the son-in-law of Don Astroc des Gabbai, whos works are only partially extant.

Since Jews and Gentiles have different souls and bodies, comparing them is a false equivalence. I moderate JTF's group on Telegram, a Noahide subreddit and a YouTube channel with more than 44K subscribers. I am also the director of my own company and the caretaker of my injured mother. Tractate Kesubot 59b says that idleness leads to lewdness and corruption and thank God I am not idle.

Offline Dovid_2

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2021, 11:37:11 PM »
Since Jews and Gentiles have different souls and bodies, comparing them is a false equivalence.
Noahide souls emanate from klipat noga -- the same place as Jewish souls.  I'm not trying to pin you down or anything, but it makes no sense to say that our bodies are different -- that's akin to saying that Jews are aliens.  Anyways, have a good week and I wish you luck in life.

Online Hrvatski Noahid

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2021, 11:45:03 PM »
Noahide souls emanate from klipat noga -- the same place as Jewish souls.  I'm not trying to pin you down or anything, but it makes no sense to say that our bodies are different -- that's akin to saying that Jews are aliens.  Anyways, have a good week and I wish you luck in life.

My mentor, Rabbi Dr. Michael Schulman, says that upon the conversion of a Gentile, with his/her immersion in a mikva for the purpose of conversion, two things happen:
a. His/her Gentile body is changed by God into a Jewish body.
b. Simultaneously, the new Jewish body is invested by God with a Jewish soul.

Obviously, then, we are different. Thanks for the discussion and be well.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2021, 12:30:07 AM »
Here is my own experience with someone who became affiliated with Judaism from your part of the world.

The man was a Slovenian with a father who was perhaps Jewish, but only in part.  The man worked as a metal machinist when Slovenia was a Soviet satellite, and then later was in the military, but he had antisocial traits which caused him to be cast out in one way or another, until he finally 'embraced' Judaism and somehow convinced the authorities to let him emigrate as a Jew.

He married an Israeli woman, of Iraqi extraction, but of a racial minority that perhaps resembles Europeans more than Semites (maybe Yazidi?).  She was undoubtedly Jewish.  She married him because he was uncircumcised, and remains so, and I assume that the novelty excited her, because she remains with him until today, eventhough he is openly unfaithful to her.

Now, most importantly, you asked how can one truly knoe if you're Jewish...  Well, here's my test...  This Slovenian man's son is an antisemite, so something inherent in this mans nature, or perhaps the subconscious antisemitism crept through during this boys adolescence.

In his aging state, the Slovenian more and more disassociates with Jews and seeks to reconciliate with Christians.  He loves Putin.

That said, this man's efforts to "connect" with his Jewish roots shouldn't be taken lightly.  This man speaks fluent hebrew - better than me, and both my parents speak Hebrew.

Now I don't know you personally, you could very well be Jewish, but before you do anything drastic, I just implore you to look deep within your soul and ask yourself this question:  If you had a son - would your son be an antisemite.

What a ridiculous question to ask him.   Your anecdote means nothing.  There are gentiles who are kind to Jews and gentiles who hate them. 
Even the kids of some Jews can become Jew-haters.  Just look at "Peace Now" and other losers. 
There are plenty of former gentiles who converted to Judaism and their kids are not Jew-haters and are Torah observant and God-fearing Jews.  You are drawing crazy conclusions from the story of one idiot.

Offline Dovid_2

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2021, 11:57:57 AM »
What a ridiculous question to ask him.   Your anecdote means nothing.  There are gentiles who are kind to Jews and gentiles who hate them. 
Even the kids of some Jews can become Jew-haters.  Just look at "Peace Now" and other losers. 
There are plenty of former gentiles who converted to Judaism and their kids are not Jew-haters and are Torah observant and God-fearing Jews.  You are drawing crazy conclusions from the story of one idiot.
I'm not playing your game...  Go and fight with someon else.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Am I Jewish?
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2021, 12:02:36 PM »
I'm not playing your game...  Go and fight with someon else.

No game being played.  Pointing out terrible logic.