Author Topic: The myth of "Seperation of Church and State"  (Read 1617 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Vito

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2114
The myth of "Seperation of Church and State"
« on: October 01, 2007, 11:22:47 AM »
It was the Supreme Court that brought in the false doctrine, of "Separation of Church and State". Which cannot be found anywhere in the Constitution! And eventually became an arbitrary dictate,
through the supreme court cases: 1962 Engel v. Vitale; and Abington v. Schemp 1963; and Commissioner of Ed. v. School Committee of Leyden, 1971. This is diametrically opposed to the First
Chief Justice, John Jay, who co-wrote the "Federalist Papers" with James Madison, and Alexander Hamilton. Which were used to convince the Signer's, of the need to federalize.

John Jay said:
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation
to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

Karl Marx stated that in order to change a government to Communism, they would first have to create a "Separation between Church & State"!
Divide and then conquer!

Offline Groucho Marxist

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 38
Re: The myth of "Seperation of Church and State"
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2007, 12:08:07 PM »
Nah, there's too many denominations with too many rules. I gets confusing. ???

Doesn't the Bible say, "...when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

Offline Gruzinit

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 425
Re: The myth of "Seperation of Church and State"
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2007, 04:10:01 PM »
Samuel Huntington is a excellent political scientist who shows how Protestantism has shaped America...i recommend people who want to debate the secularist agenda read his work.
The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money. – Alexis de Tocqueville

Communism is like prohibition, it's a good idea but it won't work. - Will Rogers

Offline dhimmi_pride

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
Re: The myth of "Seperation of Church and State"
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2007, 10:33:40 PM »

"the wall of separation between church and state" is probably the most misunderstood phrase in American politics. The phrase comes from a private letter written by Jefferson to  the Danbury Baptists. The Baptists of Danbury feared the inclusion of a Constitutional protection for the right of "free exercise of religion" because they interpretted it to mean that the right was government given (that if it was given by government it could also be taken away by government) rather than a G-d given right (which would be inalienable). They wrote a letter to Jefferson about their concern to which Jefferson replied explaining to them that the government would take no role regarding the religious practices of Americans:

"Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Thomas Jefferson
January 1, 1802."

The purpose of Jefferson using this phrase in his letter was to guarantee the right of Americans to practice their faith, not to suppress it! What happened was in 1947 a Justice of the Supreme Court Hugo Black (a Klansman from Alabama who hated Catholics as much if not more than blacks) borrowed and butchered Jefferson's letter to make prayer in public schools illegal.

The best book to read on this subject is "Original Intent: the Courts, the Constitution, and Religion" by David Barton. You can get it on Amazon.com. I had it as a textbook in College and it was honestly one of the best books I've read on American history I highly recommend it.
Amazon has the first 29 pages available online:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0925279501/ref=sib_dp_bod_ex/105-1793419-0990004?ie=UTF8&p=S003#reader-link

Offline Eliezer Ben Avraham

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1728
Re: The myth of "Seperation of Church and State"
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2007, 10:40:10 PM »
While the myth may or may not have come from the constitution (probably not). The idea is to represent the majority and the majority of people are religious in some form so to have this "separation of church and state" is a ridiculous idea perpetuated by a liberal minority who thinks that it has the country behind it.
KAHANE TZADAK!

Offline dhimmi_pride

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
Re: The myth of "Seperation of Church and State"
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2007, 11:26:17 PM »
The idea in the Constitution is not to represent the majority (Madisons writings on the dangers of factions in the Federalist papers comes to mind). The idea is for the individual have the liberty to be able to choose to practice, or to choose not to practice, their faith as they see fit.