Kahanist Singles > Jewish Singles
Do You Think Pants Are Modest For Women?
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Skippy on February 01, 2008, 09:06:33 AM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 09:04:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 01, 2008, 01:13:21 AM ---
--- Quote from: Skippy on February 01, 2008, 01:09:41 AM ---
--- Quote from: KellyMaureen on February 01, 2008, 12:56:45 AM ---I think some men look GREAT in a kilt ;)
I had to wear one to school and I dont think I looked like a man
--- End quote ---
I am proud when we have the Highland games and I see the Scotsmen in Kilts. O0
Its an honor to wear the tartan ;)
And I can just imagine a wee bonny Scot being told to remove thy kilt :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D
YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!! 8;)
--- End quote ---
I know. It ROCKS!
I also live a man in a kilt. They DO look GOOD as Kelly said.
Too bad I'm not Scotish or Irish. My ancestors come from England (we were the bad guys in Braveheart, lol )
I thought about asking this because some people were saying that women should not wear pants because we cannot dress like men. SO...I was curious if they would have an issue with us wearing kilts. Would it be forbidden for the sake of us not "dressing like men"?
I can't wait to hear what people think about this. So curious! :D
--- End quote ---
I think the Torah prohibition is that men and women should not cross dress...or dress in such a way that a man might take a nother woman for a man or vice versa...and like wise with women the same way.
In other words, it's not good to try to look like the opposite sex because it can create confusion.
And so the Rabbis built additional fences so that a man or woman is no where near being confused for the opposite sex.
With these fences we have to be careful of what the actual Torah reason is for a certain commandment and not make a new commandment out of it. That's just my two cents.
--- End quote ---
But you are aware the kilt is not a womans dress. It was solely a mans. So they are not dressing as a woman.
--- End quote ---
precisely. In the scottish culture, this is men's clothing. Nobody can mix this male celt with a woman.
But literal cross dressers..Men who wear dresses, wear wigs, stuff their boobs to appear as women..well, that's prohibited..
Or women who cut their hair really short, where a suit and a tie, put a mustache over their face, hide their chest...well that's prohibited..
And to build a fence around it, I belive the rabbis had to really extend it further out all the way to the point that men not wear anything that was female and that females not wear what is male, including pants so that niether would come close to even breaking the actual rule.
Somteimes it APPEARS to me that some very religious jews make the actual rabbinicial fence the commandment..without going straight to the bottom line of what Gd actually meant in the Torah. i have no problem with fences if it is meant to keep those from coming close to the sin..that's the whole point of the fence..to keep one far away from screwing up. However, it seems that some make the fence the actual rule from the Torah.
My take is that some get tempted more easily than others and therefore they need a fence that is 10 miles wide while others need a fence 100 yards wide. Howver, everyone shoudl have a fence just to be safe.
Like being addicted to cigarettes and knowing it's bad to smoke. Some are tempted to smoke by the smell of the cigarettes and therefore stay in another room to not smell it, while others are soooooooooooooo tempted, that they will not stay in the same building as someone smoking a cigarette (obviously that's an exagerration..however, I think you see my personal point of view)
Tina Greco - Melbourne:
Fence sitters always give me the pip, but its up to them. BTW you are in fine form today, with lots of examples
But since its 2am I say good night, and allow you to continue. ;)
Oh and yeah the kilt is not a piece of clothing, it first was the blanket the soldiers used for bedding. Because they come from mainly the highlanders the needed two hands to battle the country side and then the enemy, and it was easier to wrap it about them instead of carrying it. Each part of a highlanders dress was to allow quick and easy travel.
Very Clan had its own pattern and colours, so they could tell each family from a distance.
William Wallis was famous for the Braveheart cry, because the enemy couldn't understand where these men had come from because no camps and been located days before. They believed the men rose from the land itself.
Aye I'm a wee bonney Lassie, well the other half of me anyway :::D
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Skippy on February 01, 2008, 09:48:10 AM ---Fence sitters always give me the pip, but its up to them. BTW you are in fine form today, with lots of examples
But since its 2am I say good night, and allow you to continue. ;)
Oh and yeah the kilt is not a piece of clothing, it first was the blanket the soldiers used for bedding. Because they come from mainly the highlanders the needed two hands to battle the country side and then the enemy, and it was easier to wrap it about them instead of carrying it. Each part of a highlanders dress was to allow quick and easy travel.
Very Clan had its own pattern and colours, so they could tell each family from a distance.
William Wallis was famous for the Braveheart cry, because the enemy couldn't understand where these men had come from because no camps and been located days before. They believed the men rose from the land itself.
Aye I'm a wee bonney Lassie, well the other half of me anyway :::D
--- End quote ---
interesting
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on February 01, 2008, 11:10:37 AM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 09:04:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 01, 2008, 01:13:21 AM ---
--- Quote from: Skippy on February 01, 2008, 01:09:41 AM ---
--- Quote from: KellyMaureen on February 01, 2008, 12:56:45 AM ---I think some men look GREAT in a kilt ;)
I had to wear one to school and I dont think I looked like a man
--- End quote ---
I am proud when we have the Highland games and I see the Scotsmen in Kilts. O0
Its an honor to wear the tartan ;)
And I can just imagine a wee bonny Scot being told to remove thy kilt :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D
YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!! 8;)
--- End quote ---
I know. It ROCKS!
I also live a man in a kilt. They DO look GOOD as Kelly said.
Too bad I'm not Scotish or Irish. My ancestors come from England (we were the bad guys in Braveheart, lol )
I thought about asking this because some people were saying that women should not wear pants because we cannot dress like men. SO...I was curious if they would have an issue with us wearing kilts. Would it be forbidden for the sake of us not "dressing like men"?
I can't wait to hear what people think about this. So curious! :D
--- End quote ---
I think the Torah prohibition is that men and women should not cross dress...or dress in such a way that a man might take a nother woman for a man or vice versa...and like wise with women the same way.
In other words, it's not good to try to look like the opposite sex because it can create confusion.
And so the Rabbis built additional fences so that a man or woman is no where near being confused for the opposite sex.
With these fences we have to be careful of what the actual Torah reason is for a certain commandment and not make a new commandment out of it. That's just my two cents.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 09:34:47 AM ---precisely. In the scottish culture, this is men's clothing. Nobody can mix this male celt with a woman.
But literal cross dressers..Men who wear dresses, wear wigs, stuff their boobs to appear as women..well, that's prohibited..
Or women who cut their hair really short, where a suit and a tie, put a mustache over their face, hide their chest...well that's prohibited..
And to build a fence around it, I belive the rabbis had to really extend it further out all the way to the point that men not wear anything that was female and that females not wear what is male, including pants so that niether would come close to even breaking the actual rule.
Somteimes it APPEARS to me that some very religious jews make the actual rabbinicial fence the commandment..without going straight to the bottom line of what Gd actually meant in the Torah. i have no problem with fences if it is meant to keep those from coming close to the sin..that's the whole point of the fence..to keep one far away from screwing up. However, it seems that some make the fence the actual rule from the Torah.
My take is that some get tempted more easily than others and therefore they need a fence that is 10 miles wide while others need a fence 100 yards wide. Howver, everyone shoudl have a fence just to be safe.
Like being addicted to cigarettes and knowing it's bad to smoke. Some are tempted to smoke by the smell of the cigarettes and therefore stay in another room to not smell it, while others are soooooooooooooo tempted, that they will not stay in the same building as someone smoking a cigarette (obviously that's an exagerration..however, I think you see my personal point of view)
--- End quote ---
You are a Love Doctor, not a Rabbi. Instead of speculative theorizing on the intent of the modesty laws, why do you ask someone to open up for you a Shulhan Aruch or a Beth Yosef and see for yourself what the source is for these prohibitions? That goes for everyone here as well.
I understand that your pro-crossdresser conserved "rabbi" is not a legit source, but I'm sure there is a Chabad or some orthodox synagogue available around you to answer these questions.
--- End quote ---
I wasn't speculating or theorizing modesty laws. I was merely describing the prohibition against cross dressing and that it can lead to confusion of one's sex. I think that passage about the prohibition of men wearing women's clothing is written in Leviticus. This isn't speculation. Any human being can read the tanach and say, "Ah so...that makes sense."
Now as far as modesty...there is a Torah rule on modesty..I agree entirely with that. Immodest-ware can lead certain men to become more tempted and do evil things. Some rabbis feel that pants are immodest on a woman. If this is your rabbi, then do as he is telling you. but dont' impose your orthodox chabad rabbi on me...he's a human being like every other rabbi on this earth.
And my rabbi is not a pro-crossdresser conserved rabbi..watch your mouth before you spit hate like that! SHAME ON YOU!
OdKahaneChai:
What Jew would wear a kilt anyway?
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