Kahanist Singles > Jewish Singles
Do You Think Pants Are Modest For Women?
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on February 01, 2008, 01:43:02 PM ---What Jew would wear a kilt anyway?
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very few if any.
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 01:46:51 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on February 01, 2008, 01:43:02 PM ---What Jew would wear a kilt anyway?
--- End quote ---
very few if any.
--- End quote ---
So there ya go. Problem solved... ;)
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on February 01, 2008, 01:48:28 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 01:46:51 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on February 01, 2008, 01:43:02 PM ---What Jew would wear a kilt anyway?
--- End quote ---
very few if any.
--- End quote ---
So there ya go. Problem solved... ;)
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Precisely..But the transexuals out there...wow..they really look like women...very very frightening these evil people.
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 01, 2008, 01:54:02 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on February 01, 2008, 01:43:02 PM ---What Jew would wear a kilt anyway?
--- End quote ---
Yea Celtic converts! (like 5)
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Welcome to the club! We need some new genes added to our gene pool! ;)
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on February 03, 2008, 02:24:15 AM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 12:36:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on February 01, 2008, 11:10:37 AM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 09:04:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on February 01, 2008, 01:13:21 AM ---
--- Quote from: Skippy on February 01, 2008, 01:09:41 AM ---
--- Quote from: KellyMaureen on February 01, 2008, 12:56:45 AM ---I think some men look GREAT in a kilt ;)
I had to wear one to school and I dont think I looked like a man
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I am proud when we have the Highland games and I see the Scotsmen in Kilts. O0
Its an honor to wear the tartan ;)
And I can just imagine a wee bonny Scot being told to remove thy kilt :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D :::D
YOU WILL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!! 8;)
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I know. It ROCKS!
I also live a man in a kilt. They DO look GOOD as Kelly said.
Too bad I'm not Scotish or Irish. My ancestors come from England (we were the bad guys in Braveheart, lol )
I thought about asking this because some people were saying that women should not wear pants because we cannot dress like men. SO...I was curious if they would have an issue with us wearing kilts. Would it be forbidden for the sake of us not "dressing like men"?
I can't wait to hear what people think about this. So curious! :D
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I think the Torah prohibition is that men and women should not cross dress...or dress in such a way that a man might take a nother woman for a man or vice versa...and like wise with women the same way.
In other words, it's not good to try to look like the opposite sex because it can create confusion.
And so the Rabbis built additional fences so that a man or woman is no where near being confused for the opposite sex.
With these fences we have to be careful of what the actual Torah reason is for a certain commandment and not make a new commandment out of it. That's just my two cents.
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--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 01, 2008, 09:34:47 AM ---precisely. In the scottish culture, this is men's clothing. Nobody can mix this male celt with a woman.
But literal cross dressers..Men who wear dresses, wear wigs, stuff their boobs to appear as women..well, that's prohibited..
Or women who cut their hair really short, where a suit and a tie, put a mustache over their face, hide their chest...well that's prohibited..
And to build a fence around it, I belive the rabbis had to really extend it further out all the way to the point that men not wear anything that was female and that females not wear what is male, including pants so that niether would come close to even breaking the actual rule.
Somteimes it APPEARS to me that some very religious jews make the actual rabbinicial fence the commandment..without going straight to the bottom line of what Gd actually meant in the Torah. i have no problem with fences if it is meant to keep those from coming close to the sin..that's the whole point of the fence..to keep one far away from screwing up. However, it seems that some make the fence the actual rule from the Torah.
My take is that some get tempted more easily than others and therefore they need a fence that is 10 miles wide while others need a fence 100 yards wide. Howver, everyone shoudl have a fence just to be safe.
Like being addicted to cigarettes and knowing it's bad to smoke. Some are tempted to smoke by the smell of the cigarettes and therefore stay in another room to not smell it, while others are soooooooooooooo tempted, that they will not stay in the same building as someone smoking a cigarette (obviously that's an exagerration..however, I think you see my personal point of view)
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You are a Love Doctor, not a Rabbi. Instead of speculative theorizing on the intent of the modesty laws, why do you ask someone to open up for you a Shulhan Aruch or a Beth Yosef and see for yourself what the source is for these prohibitions? That goes for everyone here as well.
I understand that your pro-crossdresser conserved "rabbi" is not a legit source, but I'm sure there is a Chabad or some orthodox synagogue available around you to answer these questions.
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I wasn't speculating or theorizing modesty laws. I was merely describing the prohibition against cross dressing and that it can lead to confusion of one's sex. I think that passage about the prohibition of men wearing women's clothing is written in Leviticus. This isn't speculation. Any human being can read the tanach and say, "Ah so...that makes sense."
Now as far as modesty...there is a Torah rule on modesty..I agree entirely with that. Immodest-ware can lead certain men to become more tempted and do evil things. Some rabbis feel that pants are immodest on a woman. If this is your rabbi, then do as he is telling you. but dont' impose your orthodox chabad rabbi on me...he's a human being like every other rabbi on this earth.
And my rabbi is not a pro-crossdresser conserved rabbi..watch your mouth before you spit hate like that! SHAME ON YOU!
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The problem is that, like others here, it seems from your posts that are trying to construe the crossdressing prohibitions to somehow be related to the entirely separate modesty laws, such as the avoidance of wearing pants.
As far as your rabbi goes, I would never say such a thing without basis:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on September 23, 2007, 01:07:50 PM ---and so he want on to say we shoudln't turn away Jews..we shoudl accept them (as if Orthodox Jews turned away men who were admittedly homosexual which is absolutely false!!!) and he went off on a tangent how the hebrew for abomination can also mean to be lead astray..etc etc. and that he woudl be glad to marry two jewish men and allow them to adopt children etc etc... just went off on the whole thing...
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Someone who says this on Yom Kippur really has issues.
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Cross dressing is not related to modesty laws...they are two separate things...
I was referring to the women wearing pants as what i believed was the cross dressing rule and not the modesty rule...
You guys did shed some light on the modesty rule. I cannot come between you guys and this fence..Some people are tempted by looking at women's bodies and pants might show more to you guys..It doesn't to me, but that's fine.
However as cross dressing and pants on women? once again, I will not dare come between your traditions on that and tell you that you are wrong. I agree that men shoudl only wear men's clothes and women, women's clothes...but it's the fine line...some need a certain type of fence. That's all.
As far as my rabbi...My concept of thinking doesn't come from this particular rabbi, but the one I had before him does. And he has an interesting way of approaching Judaism that is different from many Orthodox Jews..Very thought provoking too..Not just going out and saying, "oh Rabbi so and so said this on this parsha on this chapter on this page and therefore..." I think it's a good thing to have that in one's education. HOwever, as Jews, we have to be careful not think too much like robots, but sometimes questions what we are reading and learning and seeing everything in perspective.
Now with that current Rabbi on Yom Kippur...I believe he is very mistaken with what he is saying and being misleading. Till this day, I want to go up to him and say, "what was your point? Are you trying to change the Torah because of current times? because, you konw, we aren't supposed to do that. Maybe perhaps it's mistaken with what you said. That in reality times have gotten worse and we need to return to Torah."
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