Poll

Is it okay?

Yes.
43 (71.7%)
No.
17 (28.3%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Author Topic: Do You Think Pants Are Modest For Women?  (Read 134200 times)

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Just Erica

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2008, 03:32:42 PM »
I'm sorry, I hate to just barge in.... but about this post and women wearing skirts....
But isn't this ONLY for Jewish women? For Tznius purposes.
Not for Gentile women since they have other laws that apply to them.
I'm sorry but I thought that the "only-Skirt...no pants" thing does not apply to gentile women.

I await opinions on this...I'll be back later I have to step out right now
Remember, Mills, what some people think about Jewish women here, they think that the entire female population should follow suit. If a Jewish woman, or ANY woman decides to wear a skirt every day on her own, without a man telling them "I'm not comfortable with you wearing pants..", I'm supportive of that. I'm not comfortable with someone or anyone telling all women that wearing pants will send them to hell. I love skirts but I enjoy the freedom of choosing whether to wear a skirt, a pair of pants, or a pair of shorts on occasion. To some women, wearing pants isn't considered imorral.

Offline OdKahaneChai

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #76 on: January 27, 2008, 03:39:26 PM »
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.
What's wrong with the female form? What? Are we supposed to be box-shaped or something? I think some men here are very sexist. Skirts can show form also.
What's wrong with the female form is this - to be honest, for the most part, men are a lot less "mature" than women, and you're not allowed to "put a stumbling block in front of the blind man."  And Mills, you are probably right about goyim wearing pants, but I certainly don't want anyone to thing that they're universally acceptable...

One does not deal with terrorists; one does not bargain with terrorists; one kills terrorists.
- Rabbi Meir Kahane ZT"L, HY"D

Just Erica

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #77 on: January 27, 2008, 03:57:29 PM »
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.
What's wrong with the female form? What? Are we supposed to be box-shaped or something? I think some men here are very sexist. Skirts can show form also.
What's wrong with the female form is this - to be honest, for the most part, men are a lot less "mature" than women, and you're not allowed to "put a stumbling block in front of the blind man."  And Mills, you are probably right about goyim wearing pants, but I certainly don't want anyone to thing that they're universally acceptable...
Your first statement didn't make sense. Could you clarify please? Of course, men are a lot less 'mature' than women because we're each built differently. Now women are supposed to look more feminine but tone it down a bit so that no men 'stumble over their beauty'? I don't understand that. I already know that wearing pants for women is  not universally acceptable...I'm just saying that no woman will go to hell because she is wearing a pair of pants.

newman

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #78 on: January 27, 2008, 04:18:08 PM »

Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

Women wear blouses and they show form.

Blouses are also the 'same' as a man's shirt.

Yet..........Jewish women can wear blouses.

The Rabbinical ruling seems contradictory at the very least.


Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #79 on: January 27, 2008, 04:20:08 PM »
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

newman

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #80 on: January 27, 2008, 04:28:30 PM »
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.

That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.

Just Erica

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2008, 04:56:40 PM »
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.
That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.
I was going to say that, Newman. Women are built differently than men so naturally the cut of each pair of pants will be different. The front (crotch area around the zipper and such) is slightly longer than that of the women's pants. I don't think women look good in men's pants either however there are some women who work in industrial sites who have to wear coveralls that are cut to a man's build. I love female dress suits with pants. I don't like tight fitting clothing.

Offline OdKahaneChai

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #82 on: January 27, 2008, 04:58:16 PM »
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.

That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.
Well, virtually every Rabbi disagrees with you, though.  If you put a different cage on a hockey helmet, it's still a hockey helmet...

One does not deal with terrorists; one does not bargain with terrorists; one kills terrorists.
- Rabbi Meir Kahane ZT"L, HY"D

newman

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #83 on: January 27, 2008, 05:17:58 PM »
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.

That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.
Well, virtually every Rabbi disagrees with you, though.  If you put a different cage on a hockey helmet, it's still a hockey helmet...

But they allow women to wear blouses (which are the same as mens shirts) so they are contradicting themselves.

newman

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #84 on: January 27, 2008, 06:02:18 PM »
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.

That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.
Well, virtually every Rabbi disagrees with you, though.  If you put a different cage on a hockey helmet, it's still a hockey helmet...

But they allow women to wear blouses (which are the same as mens shirts) so they are contradicting themselves.


So then what are "women's shirts"?



Good question, and that's my point.

Womens shirts are only as different (or the same) from mens shirts as womens pants are from mens pants. So why is one allowed and not the other?

Just Erica

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #85 on: January 27, 2008, 06:27:43 PM »
This discussion only applies for Jews.  I don't buy the nonsense that regular pants "show a woman's figure" unless they are very tight pants.  Normal pants are worn today by more women than skirts are worn by women so there should be no problem with Jewish women wearing pants today in my opinion.  It is a Biblical Prohibition against men wearing women's clothing and women wearing men's clothing, no Rabbinical prohibitions here.

That's the point.

Women slacks (female style & cut) are NOT 'mens' clothing. If a man was to try wearing females slacks: 1/ They wouln't fit. 2/ It would look so obvious that they were female garb. Therefore the prohibition (I think) refers to women wearing MEN'S (male style & cut) clothes and vica versa.
Well, virtually every Rabbi disagrees with you, though.  If you put a different cage on a hockey helmet, it's still a hockey helmet...

But they allow women to wear blouses (which are the same as mens shirts) so they are contradicting themselves.


So then what are "women's shirts"?


Women's shirts are blouses.

Online Dr. Dan

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #86 on: January 27, 2008, 06:39:30 PM »
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Just Erica

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #87 on: January 27, 2008, 06:52:46 PM »
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Online Dr. Dan

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #88 on: January 27, 2008, 06:57:59 PM »
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".

If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Just Erica

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2008, 07:04:57 PM »
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

Online Dr. Dan

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #90 on: January 27, 2008, 08:54:15 PM »
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Just Erica

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #91 on: January 27, 2008, 09:18:10 PM »
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.

Just Erica

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2008, 09:20:57 PM »
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.

I don't care what you wear. You are not Jewish, therefore the laws of modesty do not apply to you. The issue here isn't so much the Torah prohibition against crossdressing, it is the prohibition against immodesty on both men and women. Tight-fitting skirts or pants are also prohibited.

Second, I'm not threatened by women who wear pants. If you want to look like a man, go ahead. If that's the way you want to express your feminist liberation, by all means.
There is the sexist in you. I don't wear pants to look like a man. That's why women have slacks that cater to their body type. Pants aren't a MAN thing... everyone should have the right to wear pants if they want to. I look feminine in pants.

Offline OdKahaneChai

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2008, 09:32:27 PM »
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress

One does not deal with terrorists; one does not bargain with terrorists; one kills terrorists.
- Rabbi Meir Kahane ZT"L, HY"D

Online Dr. Dan

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2008, 09:50:32 PM »
I wear pants. 

It all depends.  Sometimes skirts can be modest or immodest.  The same holds true for jeans.
I love pants. However , being a female who was once kicked out of a church for wearing pants  :o, I'm more for women wearing them than ever. lol I wear long skirts and maybe shorter (knee-length) flowing skirts. I feel feminine in everything I wear though. (It's important though, being a Chicagoan and all...that I wear pants during the harsh winters. Looking pretty, or feminine isn't worth me freezing my touchas off. O0 )

Can't you wear pants under your skirt?
No. lol I would wear a long winter coat or just wear pants to work.

But a skirt is more modest.
What, is that a male answer? LOL Come on now. I think some men are just threatened by women who wear pants. I don't know WHY but that's just strange. Anyway, I'd be more concerned with how long the skirt is (for my own taste) than whether wearing pants or not will make me look less pure.

I love skirts but I love having the freedom to choose whether I wear a skirt or something else.
It's not a "Male answer," it's G-d's answer.  We follow His Word...
The Bible also said that women shouldn't cut their hair.
Show me where it says that.  And I don't mean in the Goyishe "Bible," in Tanach...

How is a skirt more modest than pants?
Exactly, Doc. From what I read here, showing skin is immoral. This comment isn't against you, Dr. Dan but I think some men feel theatened when women wear pants... Remember, back in the days before women's rights and suffrage, men were the only people wearing pants. Women picked up the idea that they could wear pants also... for more practical reasons (because a lot of women worked in the fields and pants protected their legs). Now it's wrong? I think that's a sexist attitude.

Also, I want to point out that there is no section in the Bible that says "Woman! Thou shalt not wear pants!" From all of the religious pictures I've seen, I didn't even see MEN in pants. They wore robes. How many of you would actually walk out of your apartments/ houses right now, sporting the fashions of Israel, B.C.E. ? (Not that they were bad...) My point is that times change and people's tastes change with said times. Stop thinking that if a woman wears pants that she must be raging against the machine or something. Sometimes wearing pants is just what it is...wearing  pants.
Pants are immodest because they show form, and because they're men's clothing, it has nothing to do with skin.  And there is something in Tanach that says men can't wear women's clothing and vice versa.

For Jews or anyone who wishes to be modest, it is best to not wear any clothing that might make a man have a sexual desire to undress her, marry her, have sex with her, divorce her, all in a split second's thought.

Pants do not necessarily show the female figure more than a skirt. Sometimes it is the opposite..The reality is the bottom line...If i can look at the woman and not for a moment even imagine her naked, then she is dressed properly.
Men, understand something. Women have been kidnapped and raped wearing long night gowns, or baggy clothes under large winter coats. That proves that some men don't care WHAT a woman is wearing. They're going to think what they wish about her appearance. When little girls *shudder* or older women are kidnapped and raped or looked at sexually, it has nothing to do with their clothes. But it has everything to do with the fact that there are sick individuals just walking around as free as jay birds with sick thoughts in their heads.

Certainly in this instance you're right....but that's not the point we are making here.

We're talking about women walking around in public with their cleavage in the air.  Forget about the insane people..It's the non-insane people...who may not act upon insanity, but lead them to do other things that are "unholy".


If they're following the Torah, I understand what you're saying but remember, the most powerful body part on a male OR female is their brain. Even if a woman is covered from head to toe, that doesn't stop even the most descent man from wondering what she looks like under their clothes. There are women who look at attractive men, then wonder what their children would look like if they got married. Fantasy isn't a bad thing..in fact, it's healthy. However, sick people can take fantasy to another level quicker than anyone else.

In my opinion, fantasies about other women while a man is married to his own wife isn't such a good thing..although I'm sure it happens to the best of every single one of us..female and male.
I never mentioned it being okay if a married male has fantasies about other women. A decent man doesn't always mean a married man.

So then you proved my point...A married man will still look..but if there are no opportunities to look he'll be better off and a better husband.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Online Dr. Dan

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #95 on: January 27, 2008, 09:52:20 PM »
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress

Not entirely true...Those skirts can look really pretty on a woman.....
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

newman

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #96 on: January 27, 2008, 10:01:29 PM »
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
That answer does not explain why blouses are allowed since blouses clearly show as much (if not more) form than pants.

Offline OdKahaneChai

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #97 on: January 27, 2008, 10:03:44 PM »
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
Not entirely true...Those skirts can look really pretty on a woman.....
Who said anything about looking pretty?

One does not deal with terrorists; one does not bargain with terrorists; one kills terrorists.
- Rabbi Meir Kahane ZT"L, HY"D

Online Dr. Dan

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #98 on: January 27, 2008, 10:12:32 PM »
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
Not entirely true...Those skirts can look really pretty on a woman.....
Who said anything about looking pretty?

So this rabbi suggests that a woman wearing pants shows off the shape of her body better than a skirt.  And the body can cause a man to stray from knowing the woman's brain.
However, if the pants are baggy or designed in such a way that it doesn't extentuate the body, it woud lhave to be permitted.
Therefore, it is not that pants are a man's clothing that a woman shouldn't wear it, but that she wearing pants may in fact compromise the modesty.
This type of modesty is a fence around the torah.
All i have to say is be careful of other fences that might come from this one..the next step might be wearing a burka, Gd forbid.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

newman

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Re: Is it okay for women to wear pants?
« Reply #99 on: January 27, 2008, 11:06:34 PM »
OdKahaneChai: Can you please explain, for a friend of mine, why a woman
 is allowed to wear a blouse, but not pants?
OdKahaneChai: He contends that it's the same concept, and that the
 Rabbonim are contradicting themselves
Rabbi Velvel: The reason Halachah discourages women from wearing pants
 is because the pant garment more clearly emphasizes the women's body
 outline as opposed to a skirt.
Rabbi Velvel: How can the same be said about the blouse?
Rabbi Velvel: Pants might be considered more suggestive and less
 concealing then a skirt/dress
Not entirely true...Those skirts can look really pretty on a woman.....
Who said anything about looking pretty?

So this rabbi suggests that a woman wearing pants shows off the shape of her body better than a skirt.  And the body can cause a man to stray from knowing the woman's brain.
However, if the pants are baggy or designed in such a way that it doesn't extentuate the body, it woud lhave to be permitted.
Therefore, it is not that pants are a man's clothing that a woman shouldn't wear it, but that she wearing pants may in fact compromise the modesty.
This type of modesty is a fence around the torah.
All i have to say is be careful of other fences that might come from this one..the next step might be wearing a burka, Gd forbid.

There's a name for a man who can't look at a woman without being driven to a lustfull, raping frenzy............................a "muSSlim".