Poll

Should it?

Yes.
24 (52.2%)
No.
22 (47.8%)

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Author Topic: Should interreligious marriage be banned?  (Read 28688 times)

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Offline JTFFan

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2007, 08:28:36 AM »
Intermarriage merely continues what the nazis started.

I agree and definitely think interreligious marriages be banned.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2007, 09:15:17 AM »
Every JTF-forum member supports The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany?

Do you have a list of the Nuremberg laws? I doubt that any of those laws are of any good.


The Nazis would be against Jews marrying ethnic Germans even if Germans became Jews. The prohibition against Jews intermarrying is not a racial thing. It's purely religious.



My mothers German, she converted to Judaism halachic and married my father who was already Jewish. If they hadn't married, I wouldn't have been born.

Offline Mstislav

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2007, 09:18:23 AM »
Every JTF-forum member supports The Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany?

Do you have a list of the Nuremberg laws? I doubt that any of those laws are of any good.


The Nazis would be against Jews marrying ethnic Germans even if Germans became Jews. The prohibition against Jews intermarrying is not a racial thing. It's purely religious.



My mothers German, she converted to Judaism halachic and married my father who was already Jewish. If they hadn't married, I wouldn't have been born.

If your mother had a halachic conversion to Judaism, she is just as Jewish as your father. So there was no interreligious marriage in your situation.
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Offline yeshuadisciple

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2007, 03:07:12 AM »
Well it's made easy for the Christian.  We are commanded not to be unequally yokes with unbelievers.  And I don't just mean anyone who is "born" Christian because of their place of birth or their family.  I mean a Christian who has put their faith in Yeshua and believes the Bible to be the word of G-d and adds nothing to it and subtracts nothing from it.  It's the same principle laid out for Jews not to marry pagan foreigners.  It's hard enough to make a marriage work if the husband and wife have the same world view, forget about it if you have different world views.   Plus an unbeliever will invariably drag the believer down to their level.  Just look at how Solomon was corrupted by his pagan wives.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 03:09:56 AM by yeshuadisciple »
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 12:9-10

"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.  "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.  "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.  "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
Daniel 9:24-27




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Offline nopeaceforland

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Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2007, 03:15:56 AM »
Yes, without question!!!  I believe we should marry within and only within our own. It's sickening to hear that someone is 1/2 Jewish, 1/4 Jewish, 1/3 Jewish, 1/100 Jewish. What the heck does that mean anyway? Either you are or you're not! Honestly, can someone be half man, half woman, or half car and half motorcycle or half and half for your coffee. Milk isn't real milk anymore, the madness must stop!!!

Offline EagleEye

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2007, 04:18:18 AM »
Yes in Israel, no in America.  Israel should be reserved for Jews who value their Jewish identity.  Those who wish to step away from Judaism shouldn't be in Israel, but the scope of Jewish law should be limited to Israel.

Because my answer is circumstance-based, I didn't vote.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 04:41:35 AM by EagleEye »

Offline yeshuadisciple

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2007, 02:41:23 PM »
Yes in Israel, no in America.  Israel should be reserved for Jews who value their Jewish identity.  Those who wish to step away from Judaism shouldn't be in Israel, but the scope of Jewish law should be limited to Israel.

Because my answer is circumstance-based, I didn't vote.

Interesting I would have said the opposite.  Since by intermarriage in America eventually the Jews will be absorbed and disappear which is actually happening now.  It's been said that the Jews in America are being killed by kindness since they can freely intermarry and aren't ghettoized.  In Israel, you have a Jewish state so if  a Jew becomes a Christian or Hindu or Buddhist, they are still Jewish by blood and the Jewish state protects their identity.  The only thing that would endanger Jewish identity in Israel is if the Arabic Muslims became a very large part of the population percentage wise and destroyed the Jewish identity of the state.    I assume that is the main purpose of the right of return of refugees.  Flood Israel with millions of Arabs and obliterate Israel. 
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.  And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 12:9-10

"Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.  "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.  "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.  "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
Daniel 9:24-27




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Offline EagleEye

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2007, 08:37:19 PM »
Quote
Since by intermarriage in America eventually the Jews will be absorbed and disappear which is actually happening now.
My opinion is that if they are living outside of Israel and intermarrying, they aren't committed enough to be Jewish in the first place.  I don't think someone can be externally convinced to be a devout Jew, the drive has to be an internal drive.  If the drive is not there, then there isn't much that can and arguably should be done to change it.

By living outside of Israel and intermarrying, Jews have basically left the religious community by choice, a choice no-one can change, and while they may have ethnic ties, they are basically separated.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 08:40:09 PM by EagleEye »

Offline LWB123123

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2008, 02:51:04 PM »
Quote
Since by intermarriage in America eventually the Jews will be absorbed and disappear which is actually happening now.
My opinion is that if they are living outside of Israel and intermarrying, they aren't committed enough to be Jewish in the first place.  I don't think someone can be externally convinced to be a devout Jew, the drive has to be an internal drive.  If the drive is not there, then there isn't much that can and arguably should be done to change it.

By living outside of Israel and intermarrying, Jews have basically left the religious community by choice, a choice no-one can change, and while they may have ethnic ties, they are basically separated.

I believe the whole scenario is only solvable if the law sets down a clear definition of Jew and non-Jew. In my opinion, the best way to avoid religious disputes is for one member of the couple to drop his or her religion and convert to the other. That way there is not as must dishonesty. If the Jews consider it an act of betrayal for a Jewish girl to marry a gentile man, than it is only decent for her to drop her pretended Judaism. Likewise, if a gentile man is in love with a Jewish girl who refuses to leave Judaism, it is only decent for him to walk away and leave her alone.
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Offline EagleEye

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2008, 03:09:37 PM »
A lot of people say it is about religion, and not ethnicity.  But the thing is that there are atheistic and christian people with Jewish mothers who would still be considered Jews, therefore you can't say religious affiliation is the only factor here.  If atheist Jews were counted as gentiles, then it would religion.  That being said, I still think Israel (but not the rest of the world) should ban it, otherwise it isn't a Jewish state.

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2008, 03:17:12 PM »
Yes! No one should marry someone they cannot have such an important life-long goal with. Jews should ONLY marry Jews and Christians should only marry those that they are equally yoked with.

As far as skin, if a white Jew and a black Jew married one another, I would be very happy for them and would have no problem AT ALL.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline LWB123123

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2008, 03:25:48 PM »
A lot of people say it is about religion, and not ethnicity.  But the thing is that there are atheistic and christian people with Jewish mothers who would still be considered Jews, therefore you can't say religious affiliation is the only factor here.  If atheist Jews were counted as gentiles, then it would religion.  That being said, I still think Israel (but not the rest of the world) should ban it, otherwise it isn't a Jewish state.

It is about religion to the religious Jews, and because religion requires a more complex creed, than the race, the ethnic look and beauty, I tend to start with religion. I wouldn't want the guilt of forcing a Jewish girl to deny something she secretly believes in, though I would not feel guilty if she really gave it up willingly. And, as for race, well, I consider Ashkenazi Jews to be European, so in the same way in which I wouldn't perceive of myself, as defiling Swedishness to marry a Swede, I wouldn't feel I was defiling Jewish blood in any significant way.

My view is also circumstance based. As I understand it, Israel is set up to be a Jewish state, and as such Jewish rules should apply.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 03:29:44 PM by LWB123123 »
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Offline EagleEye

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2008, 03:29:42 PM »
I consider "european" to be a vague term with no scientific validity.

And I understand that Judaism commands people to recognize non-practicing Jews as Jews, but I'm saying if you go by that, it becomes an ancestry game, not an affiliation game.  I'm fine with Israel playing an ancestry game though.

Offline LWB123123

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2008, 03:32:51 PM »
I consider "european" to be a vague term with no scientific validity.

And I understand that Judaism commands people to recognize non-practicing Jews as Jews, but I'm saying if you go by that, it becomes an ancestry game, not an affiliation game.  I'm fine with Israel playing an ancestry game though.

European is more of a social-cultural term. I agree that scientifically you can find plenty of extra-European ethnic groups like Turks, Israelis and Iranians who approximately fit into the Caucasian category. European, however has more of a history to it, and since Jews have dwelt in Europe for such long periods of time, much of their history goes back very far, as does their genes.
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Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2008, 12:48:36 PM »
On my birthright trip they attacked me for saying that Jews should only marry Jews. Infact my Refrom Liberal Obama supporting friend called me a racist. He wasn't the only one
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh


Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2008, 09:33:50 PM »
On my birthright trip they attacked me for saying that Jews should only marry Jews. Infact my Refrom Liberal Obama supporting friend called me a racist. He wasn't the only one

Reference them to the Torah where it says that it is forbidden. Tell them that G-d is agains't it and ask them if they know better then G-d.

Show them this video http://torahanytime.com/rav_mizrachi.html

01/08/08 Intermarriage

Which was a big hit, and where even many gentiles called Rabbi Mizrahi afterwards in agreement and thanks.
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‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

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Offline EagleEye

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2008, 11:43:42 PM »
Western thought is against racial/ethnic loyalty.  That is why westerners do not like the fact that Judaism inherits membership based on blood.  I happen to support ethno-nationalism as a theoretical concept, therefore I have nothing against Jews wanting to preserve their ethnic identity, just like I would have nothing against Spanish, Italian, or Russian people doing the same thing.  If two liberals want to marry across ethnic lines, they shouldn't do it in a Jewish state of course, and they shouldn't claim to be upholding religious tradition while they do it.  Perhaps what annoys me is people who claim they are being observant Jews and intermarrying.  It's the dishonesty.  If people intermarry and admit they are not following Judaism, then it doesn't annoy me as much.

While I think ethnic preservation is a good thing, attempts to say "it is just religion" are simply dishonest, there is an ethnic component too.  Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists do not assign membership based on birth.  Only Hindus and Jews do.

Offline Shiptar

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2008, 02:00:26 AM »
Yes, ban it.  O0

Offline Ambiorix

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2008, 04:01:02 PM »

Muslims say everyone was born Muslim until choosing something else.

Yeah, I hate it when they say that. What a cheap and sleazy way to pretend that their religion is universal. Those weasels!

They can believe whatever they want. If they want to convert us forcibly, or steal our land, that is where they cross the line for me.
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Offline Mstislav

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2008, 10:57:08 AM »

Muslims say everyone was born Muslim until choosing something else.

Yeah, I hate it when they say that. What a cheap and sleazy way to pretend that their religion is universal. Those weasels!
Weasels?  ;D
The satanic barbaric deathcult of islam spread like a cancer throughout the world, killing and destroying everything it touches. muslims are like the hiv/aids virus, subverting the societies of non muslim lands only to allow the cancer of islam to consume and destroy. muslim, I curse and hate you, your 'prophet', 'g o d' and deathcult.   
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Offline Mstislav

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2008, 11:02:14 AM »

Weasels?  ;D

Yes that's what I call them when I'm mad. LOL, I don't cuss but I call them weasels instead.  :laugh:
I see.
The satanic barbaric deathcult of islam spread like a cancer throughout the world, killing and destroying everything it touches. muslims are like the hiv/aids virus, subverting the societies of non muslim lands only to allow the cancer of islam to consume and destroy. muslim, I curse and hate you, your 'prophet', 'g o d' and deathcult.   
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Offline EagleEye

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2008, 08:26:07 PM »
Muslims believe someone can stop being a Muslim just by quitting the religion.  But Jews (at least Orthodox) don't believe someone can stop being a Jew.  They believe that person can stop practicing Judaism, but they become a non-practicing Jew, not a Gentile.  Someone who quits Islam becomes an Infidel, indistinguishable from other Infidels.  They do not become "non-practicing" Muslims.

Offline spiritus_persona

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2008, 10:39:40 PM »
Yes it should.  It just creates unnecessary division among the child.  If he/she chooses one religion, the parent of the other religion will disown him.  If he comes out as an atheist, then the parents are to blame for turning him away from G-d.  So I believe that IR marriages should be banned.
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Offline Yonatan777

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2008, 07:01:17 AM »
I do belive Jews should marry Jews and I hope none of other Jews on the site are offended, but thereis nothing in Torah barring Jew from marrying gentile and it should not be banned.  Perhaps people forget that King David's mother was a Moabite?  Also, many other great Jews came from half Jewish marriages, even those where only the Father was a Jew.  I think the whole concept of you are a Jew because your mother is a Jew came from the fact that our women where getting raped all the time by Cossack and other europeans during our diaspora in Europe.   It is shame for me to say, but many of us, including: Ashkenazi, Sephardim and Mizrachi are undoubtedly half-breeds.  This is not to say that I desire to see us become less and less Jewish, however, with the lack of religious teaching and authority in Israel, our Jewish ways will die long before we intermarry with gentiles.

Offline EagleEye

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Re: Should interreligious marriage be banned?
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2008, 09:11:21 AM »
Quote
Also, many other great Jews came from half Jewish marriages, even those where only the Father was a Jew.
The rules changed in recent history, and now people (except for the karaite branch) have decided to go by the mother instead.