Author Topic: Ann Coulter / "Perfected" Jews (Read 37392 times)

HiWarp · « **Reply #150 on:** October 17, 2007, 02:12:35 PM »

Quote from: Ze'ev Jabotinsky link=topic=9654.msg#msg date=

I read the transcript of the interview with Donny Deutsche and saw her interview with Bill O'Reilly and I'll say that I'm not impressed at all. Her attitude was brash, insensitive, unapologetic. She basically doesn't care at all what Jews think about her comments. She can state them, that's fine, but to do so with such a hostile, frank and unapologetic attitude is just shameful. She never ONCE apologized to Jews and said, look, I'm sorry that this offends you, but these are my beliefs and the intention is not to offend you, I am just towing the line of Catholicism (or whatever branch of Christianity she follows) She didn't even apologize, I would expect a decent human being to at least do that. She had the chance to apologize for offending anyone for the second time on Bill O'Reilly, and maintained her harsh, unapologetic attitude.

To be honest, it came off as anti-Semitism. One comment really stuck out for me: when she was with O'Reilly, she said something like "I never knew that Donny Deutsch would turn out to be an Al Sharpton of the Jews!" She said it in such a harsh and condescending tone. It just made her seem like she did not care whatsoever about the feelings of Jewish people, and she doesn't think that Deutsh or other Jews have a right to be offended, or that the fact that they are offended should be acknowledged. She just seemed like she didn't care AT ALL about the feelings of people that resulted from what she said.

She wants all Jews to be Christian, and wants the entire United States to be Christian? Sorry, I cannot support that. There are people of good faith in the U.S., like buddhists, hindus, Jews, Sikhs, and others.

Ann Coulter clearly does not care at all about Jewish people, if she had one ounce of respect, care, or empathy for Jews, she would have at least tempered her tone, or made a disclaimer to Jews that she doesn't mean to offend people but if she does, she apologizes. That's what a good person would have done in the situation. After seeing her statements and her interview, to me, Coulter is a vile, ugly, and heartless person.

I would never have bought one of her crappy books to begin with, but I certainly won't be buying one or supporting her in any way now.

Sorry, but if she believes what she said and stands by it, she should not apologize. This is what every so-called conservative does today. It's SOP for someone to say something that "offends" a group of people and when that group becomes vocal for the person to come out with the standard "I apologize if my comments offended anyone...". Should Chaim tone down his rhetoric when he speaks so passionately about things he believes in? Should he apologize for offending certain groups of people?

The truth is that I neither love nor hate Ann Coulter. As a Christian, I do not agree with her view but, then again, I was not taught that it is my duty in life to go around converting anyone, regardless of whether they want it or not.

Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer · « **Reply #151 on:** October 17, 2007, 02:15:38 PM »

Quote from: HiWarp on October 17, 2007, 02:12:35 PM

Quote from: Ze'ev Jabotinsky link=topic=9654.msg#msg date=
I read the transcript of the interview with Donny Deutsche and saw her interview with Bill O'Reilly and I'll say that I'm not impressed at all. Her attitude was brash, insensitive, unapologetic. She basically doesn't care at all what Jews think about her comments. She can state them, that's fine, but to do so with such a hostile, frank and unapologetic attitude is just shameful. She never ONCE apologized to Jews and said, look, I'm sorry that this offends you, but these are my beliefs and the intention is not to offend you, I am just towing the line of Catholicism (or whatever branch of Christianity she follows) She didn't even apologize, I would expect a decent human being to at least do that. She had the chance to apologize for offending anyone for the second time on Bill O'Reilly, and maintained her harsh, unapologetic attitude.

To be honest, it came off as anti-Semitism. One comment really stuck out for me: when she was with O'Reilly, she said something like "I never knew that Donny Deutsch would turn out to be an Al Sharpton of the Jews!" She said it in such a harsh and condescending tone. It just made her seem like she did not care whatsoever about the feelings of Jewish people, and she doesn't think that Deutsh or other Jews have a right to be offended, or that the fact that they are offended should be acknowledged. She just seemed like she didn't care AT ALL about the feelings of people that resulted from what she said.

She wants all Jews to be Christian, and wants the entire United States to be Christian? Sorry, I cannot support that. There are people of good faith in the U.S., like buddhists, hindus, Jews, Sikhs, and others.

Ann Coulter clearly does not care at all about Jewish people, if she had one ounce of respect, care, or empathy for Jews, she would have at least tempered her tone, or made a disclaimer to Jews that she doesn't mean to offend people but if she does, she apologizes. That's what a good person would have done in the situation. After seeing her statements and her interview, to me, Coulter is a vile, ugly, and heartless person.

I would never have bought one of her crappy books to begin with, but I certainly won't be buying one or supporting her in any way now.
Sorry, but if she believes what she said and stands by it, she should not apologize. This is what every so-called conservative does today. It's SOP for someone to say something that "offends" a group of people and when that group becomes vocal for the person to come out with the standard "I apologize if my comments offended anyone...". Should Chaim tone down his rhetoric when he speaks so passionately about things he believes in? Should he apologize for offending certain groups of people?

The truth is that I neither love nor hate Ann Coulter. As a Christian, I do not agree with her view but, then again, I was not taught that it is my duty in life to go around converting anyone, regardless of whether they want it or not.

Ann Coulter said nothing about converting anyone. It is a Christian belief that Jews should observe the Christian Bible. Christians are not asking for Jews to convert, they just want them to add to their religion. As a Jew, I refuse to observe it, but Coulter has every right to believe what she does. Every good Christian should believe it.

Ultra Requete · « **Reply #152 on:** October 17, 2007, 02:27:55 PM »

I caan't belive we dicuse it for 11 pages; it's theological dilema which can be solved only by coming of Messaih; If Jesus was one all Jews will become Meshianic by G-d grace; if he was not all christians will become noahides or will convert to judaism. Arguing over Ann Culter belives is insane in our situation.

Does Annapolis conferention rings a bell

We have to get Chaim to Israel before insane israeli left will give up Yesha to Palestinians.

HiWarp · « **Reply #153 on:** October 17, 2007, 02:45:39 PM »

Quote from: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer link=topic=9654.msg#msg date=

Quote from: HiWarp link=topic=9654.msg#msg date=
Quote from: Ze'ev Jabotinsky link=topic=9654.msg#msg date=
I read the transcript of the interview with Donny Deutsche and saw her interview with Bill O'Reilly and I'll say that I'm not impressed at all. Her attitude was brash, insensitive, unapologetic. She basically doesn't care at all what Jews think about her comments. She can state them, that's fine, but to do so with such a hostile, frank and unapologetic attitude is just shameful. She never ONCE apologized to Jews and said, look, I'm sorry that this offends you, but these are my beliefs and the intention is not to offend you, I am just towing the line of Catholicism (or whatever branch of Christianity she follows) She didn't even apologize, I would expect a decent human being to at least do that. She had the chance to apologize for offending anyone for the second time on Bill O'Reilly, and maintained her harsh, unapologetic attitude.

To be honest, it came off as anti-Semitism. One comment really stuck out for me: when she was with O'Reilly, she said something like "I never knew that Donny Deutsch would turn out to be an Al Sharpton of the Jews!" She said it in such a harsh and condescending tone. It just made her seem like she did not care whatsoever about the feelings of Jewish people, and she doesn't think that Deutsh or other Jews have a right to be offended, or that the fact that they are offended should be acknowledged. She just seemed like she didn't care AT ALL about the feelings of people that resulted from what she said.

She wants all Jews to be Christian, and wants the entire United States to be Christian? Sorry, I cannot support that. There are people of good faith in the U.S., like buddhists, hindus, Jews, Sikhs, and others.

Ann Coulter clearly does not care at all about Jewish people, if she had one ounce of respect, care, or empathy for Jews, she would have at least tempered her tone, or made a disclaimer to Jews that she doesn't mean to offend people but if she does, she apologizes. That's what a good person would have done in the situation. After seeing her statements and her interview, to me, Coulter is a vile, ugly, and heartless person.

I would never have bought one of her crappy books to begin with, but I certainly won't be buying one or supporting her in any way now.
Sorry, but if she believes what she said and stands by it, she should not apologize. This is what every so-called conservative does today. It's SOP for someone to say something that "offends" a group of people and when that group becomes vocal for the person to come out with the standard "I apologize if my comments offended anyone...". Should Chaim tone down his rhetoric when he speaks so passionately about things he believes in? Should he apologize for offending certain groups of people?

The truth is that I neither love nor hate Ann Coulter. As a Christian, I do not agree with her view but, then again, I was not taught that it is my duty in life to go around converting anyone, regardless of whether they want it or not.
Ann Coulter said nothing about converting anyone. It is a Christian belief that Jews should observe the Christian Bible. Christians are not asking for Jews to convert, they just want them to add to their religion. As a Jew, I refuse to observe it, but Coulter has every right to believe what she does. Every good Christian should believe it.

It is a Christian belief that everyone should observe the Christian Bible. What I was referring to was that it is not my belief that I should go about telling people of other faiths that they need to "convert" to my religion by observing the Christian Bible in order to be "perfected" if they are Jewish, "saved" if they are anything else or wind up in hell.

Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer · « **Reply #154 on:** October 17, 2007, 07:32:11 PM »

Quote from: HiWarp on October 17, 2007, 02:45:39 PM

Quote from: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer link=topic=9654.msg#msg date=
Quote from: HiWarp link=topic=9654.msg#msg date=
Quote from: Ze'ev Jabotinsky link=topic=9654.msg#msg date=
I read the transcript of the interview with Donny Deutsche and saw her interview with Bill O'Reilly and I'll say that I'm not impressed at all. Her attitude was brash, insensitive, unapologetic. She basically doesn't care at all what Jews think about her comments. She can state them, that's fine, but to do so with such a hostile, frank and unapologetic attitude is just shameful. She never ONCE apologized to Jews and said, look, I'm sorry that this offends you, but these are my beliefs and the intention is not to offend you, I am just towing the line of Catholicism (or whatever branch of Christianity she follows) She didn't even apologize, I would expect a decent human being to at least do that. She had the chance to apologize for offending anyone for the second time on Bill O'Reilly, and maintained her harsh, unapologetic attitude.

To be honest, it came off as anti-Semitism. One comment really stuck out for me: when she was with O'Reilly, she said something like "I never knew that Donny Deutsch would turn out to be an Al Sharpton of the Jews!" She said it in such a harsh and condescending tone. It just made her seem like she did not care whatsoever about the feelings of Jewish people, and she doesn't think that Deutsh or other Jews have a right to be offended, or that the fact that they are offended should be acknowledged. She just seemed like she didn't care AT ALL about the feelings of people that resulted from what she said.

She wants all Jews to be Christian, and wants the entire United States to be Christian? Sorry, I cannot support that. There are people of good faith in the U.S., like buddhists, hindus, Jews, Sikhs, and others.

Ann Coulter clearly does not care at all about Jewish people, if she had one ounce of respect, care, or empathy for Jews, she would have at least tempered her tone, or made a disclaimer to Jews that she doesn't mean to offend people but if she does, she apologizes. That's what a good person would have done in the situation. After seeing her statements and her interview, to me, Coulter is a vile, ugly, and heartless person.

I would never have bought one of her crappy books to begin with, but I certainly won't be buying one or supporting her in any way now.
Sorry, but if she believes what she said and stands by it, she should not apologize. This is what every so-called conservative does today. It's SOP for someone to say something that "offends" a group of people and when that group becomes vocal for the person to come out with the standard "I apologize if my comments offended anyone...". Should Chaim tone down his rhetoric when he speaks so passionately about things he believes in? Should he apologize for offending certain groups of people?

The truth is that I neither love nor hate Ann Coulter. As a Christian, I do not agree with her view but, then again, I was not taught that it is my duty in life to go around converting anyone, regardless of whether they want it or not.
Ann Coulter said nothing about converting anyone. It is a Christian belief that Jews should observe the Christian Bible. Christians are not asking for Jews to convert, they just want them to add to their religion. As a Jew, I refuse to observe it, but Coulter has every right to believe what she does. Every good Christian should believe it.
It is a Christian belief that everyone should observe the Christian Bible. What I was referring to was that it is not my belief that I should go about telling people of other faiths that they need to "convert" to my religion by observing the Christian Bible in order to be "perfected" if they are Jewish, "saved" if they are anything else or wind up in hell.

She's not saying that Jews must become Christians. She's saying that she wants Jews to take on a Christian belief, not the Christian faith as a whole.

Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer · « **Reply #155 on:** October 17, 2007, 07:43:16 PM »

Quote from: Ultra Requete on October 17, 2007, 02:27:55 PM

I caan't belive we dicuse it for 11 pages; it's theological dilema which can be solved only by coming of Messaih; If Jesus was one all Jews will become Meshianic by G-d grace; if he was not all christians will become noahides or will convert to judaism. Arguing over Ann Culter belives is insane in our situation. Does Annapolis conferention rings a bell We have to get Chaim to Israel before insane israeli left will give up Yesha to PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis.

You're right, but good Jews should not hate Christians for having this belief torward Jews. Christians could say the same thing about us, since we feel that they shouldn't worship Christ or the Ten Commandments.

Wayne Jude · « **Reply #156 on:** October 18, 2007, 01:26:11 AM »

Ann is the perfect Jew ....LOL

Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer · « **Reply #157 on:** October 18, 2007, 03:10:03 AM »

Whether you like her Christian beliefs or not, Ann Coulter is a true conservative, and that is exactly what this movement and the US need.

newman · « **Reply #158 on:** October 18, 2007, 04:52:43 AM »

Quote from: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 17, 2007, 07:32:11 PM

She's not saying that Jews must become Christians. She's saying that she wants Jews to take on a Christian belief, not the Christian faith as a whole.

If Jews take on christian beliefs (ie: anti-Torah beliefs) it would destroy Torah Judaism and (ultimately) Jewish identity.

MarZutra · « **Reply #159 on:** October 18, 2007, 09:03:31 AM »

Jews should be Jewish and Christians can be whatever they wish since the Bible/Torah is not applicable to them and therefore the Gentile is free to choose the Noahide Laws, Jesus, Mohammed, Shabbati Tzvi, Marx or Martin Luther King Jr....

whywhywhy · « **Reply #160 on:** October 18, 2007, 05:10:25 PM »

If she was a "liberal lady" or a black leader the "liberal" journalists (even the Jewish) would let her say anything. She was just quoting the new testimony and all the Christians believe in Jesus.

Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer · « **Reply #161 on:** October 18, 2007, 07:19:54 PM »

Quote from: newman on October 18, 2007, 04:52:43 AM

Quote from: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 17, 2007, 07:32:11 PM

She's not saying that Jews must become Christians. She's saying that she wants Jews to take on a Christian belief, not the Christian faith as a whole.

If Jews take on christian beliefs (ie: anti-Torah beliefs) it would destroy Torah Judaism and (ultimately) Jewish identity.

I'm not saying I'd agree with it. Being a good Jew means being Torah-true.

What we wish of Christians would be going against the commands of the Christian Bible.

It's just a difference in ideals. Jews shouldn't be offended by it. If you are, you're being silly and disrespectful.

Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer · « **Reply #162 on:** October 18, 2007, 10:06:25 PM »

Quote from: whywhywhy on October 18, 2007, 05:10:25 PM

If she was a "liberal lady" or a black leader the "liberal" journalists (even the Jewish) would let her say anything. She was just quoting the new testimony and all the Christians believe in Jesus.

Of course, liberal/communists are allowed to say anything they want without fear of much condemnation. Look at Pete Stark and George Soros. They've caught some falk, but they really deserve to be driven out of the country.

whywhywhy · « **Reply #163 on:** October 23, 2007, 05:05:33 AM »

Quote from: Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer on October 18, 2007, 10:06:25 PM

Quote from: whywhywhy on October 18, 2007, 05:10:25 PM
If she was a "liberal lady" or a black leader the "liberal" journalists (even the Jewish) would let her say anything. She was just quoting the new testimony and all the Christians believe in Jesus.
Of course, liberal/communists are allowed to say anything they want without fear of much condemnation. Look at Pete Stark and George Soros. They've caught some falk, but they really deserve to be driven out of the country.

Alexander Yanai said that we should take care only of the hippocrates!

MarZutra · « **Reply #164 on:** October 23, 2007, 09:07:55 AM »

She's not saying that Jews must become Christians. She's saying that she wants Jews to take on a Christian belief, not the Christian faith as a whole.

Sorry but I do not understand this comment at all. If a Jew takes on a "more Christian belief" that is akin to accepting the Christian faith and becomming a Christian...imo.

Everything Ann Coulter said is perfectly logical with Christianity if one studies its history. The Jesuits, Joho's Witness are a few specific examples of sub groups of Christianity that specifically targetted Jews for conversion. Further, what Ms. Coulter did say about "Perfecting" is, in my opinion, bigotry, akin to the pogrom advocates of Eastern Europe and the same ignorance and closed mindedness used since 322AD specifically, or 50 years later by John Chrysostom.....

habiru · « **Reply #165 on:** October 24, 2007, 02:06:17 AM »

I never liked her.

Wayne Jude · « **Reply #166 on:** October 24, 2007, 02:11:30 AM »

She is smart.Remember in Pirates of the Caribbean when the officer says "Your the worst pirate Ive ever heard of" and Jack Sparrow says yes ,but you have heard of me?The same with her she is just getting her bit of fame by saying stupid things.Savvy.LOL,
wayne jude!

q_q_ · « **Reply #167 on:** October 25, 2007, 08:22:52 AM »

Quote from: ~*Mills*~ on October 24, 2007, 07:29:28 PM

I agree, this thread is pretty long.
In my humble opinion....
Anyone who claims "perfection" is using the word with arrogance, emptiness and absolutely incorrectly. And I would be weary of anyone offering people to be "perfected"!
The reason is that, it is my belief that reaching perfection is a life long challenge/goal that can be achieved by living according to the will of G-d and following His Torah, which is life.....

But her usage is nothing to get as upset about as the host did(excuse the grammar).

The reason why the majourity of those offended were leftists/liberals was because
a)they are socialists - but if they admitted that it`d be political suicide, so they call themselves liberals. They believe religion should be eliminated. The jewish ones are a bit weak and want to hang onto a culture. They are more offended by Orthodox Judaism than anything. Orthodox jews know that, so most defend Ann.
b)they see in the word "perfected" an allusion to the holocaust when jews were viewed as tainted , vermin, e.t.c. and nazis viewed themselves as the master race , most perfect. Left wing jews cannot define themselves by judaism, so they define themselves by the holocaust, even "who is a jew" they define as Hitler defined. They don`t just take the lesson out of the holocaust, like Kahane did "never again", and to do something. But they take it as their identity. So they are most offended by that word.

There was a story I heard recently, a guy at a non Orthodox synagogue (Conservative actually, but in synagogue terms, that means not orthodox, so liberal). He asked his "rabbi" why they were so permissive on the Gay marriage issue, since the Torah is against it. The "Rabbi" responded
"if you want to follow the torah of bigotry, then maybe this synagogue is not for you"

If you think about it.. The Secular elite ruling israel, are like the reform movement with guns - an army, and a police force.

q_q_ · « **Reply #168 on:** October 25, 2007, 08:01:23 PM »

there are different christians. Here in britain we never hear of them. But in America they seem to be bible based , call themselves protestant . Ann is in that group. They are a different category to the old european style ones.

In Britain it was only 20 years ago that I know kids would ask jewish kids if they have horns. I don`t know how common the accussation of killing jesus is. I would put them in a similar category to the catholic that said the holocaust was punishment and jews needed to be perfected.

But Ann Coulter is just coming from a different place. She is pro israel, of the evangelical bible based kind, very kind. No hate towards jews. I really like her, and alot of christians in america are like that. They call into tovia singer`s show all the time (I don`t listen to tovia singer much, but anyhow), all his listeners are christian! He used to be on some christian radio station called WMCA or something. I saw a pic of rabbi binyamin kahane on one of those stations, perhaps WMCA.

I wouldn`t lump her with those european style catholic christians. I see them as distinct, and the latter as dying.

I am well aware of centuries of christian anti-semitism. Personally, I am far more haunted by dreams of being a jew living centuries ago, during crusades, thrown into a fire with a christian satanically yelling from a bible that I am SATAN. But thank G-d, those days are gone. Arab/Muslims don`t scare me, they are just wild and angry, I can sort of understand that. And medieval christians, are gone, and even their european catholic echoes, are dying out.

Fortunately I was never in a gentile school. But I think even nowadays in britain, jews would face anti-semitism like "you killed jesus" e.t.c. but I don`t think this is so common in america.

If Ann Coulter is the example of OFFENCE to jews then it shows how amazing relations are between jews and christians in america. I`d let it pass. You said yourself, people are not perfect. Let her be, she is great the way she is.

And I`m sure her whole demeanor and attutide was different to the catholic guy you referred to. It`s a different religion, and the line is thick.

Barach Velvel ben Lazer Eliazer · « **Reply #169 on:** October 26, 2007, 12:49:49 AM »

The language she used was a little tough. Jews shouldn't go around telling Christians they're imperfect for not following the Seven Noahide Laws, because we should have respect for the Christians, our allies. Just as Christians shouldn't go around telling Jews they're imperfect, because they don't observe the Christian Bible.

All that aside, Ann Coulter stated a Christian belief that Jews haven't chosen the correct ideas for their faith. We feel the same way about Christians.

q_q_ · « **Reply #170 on:** October 26, 2007, 06:36:28 AM »

coming from her, i`d let it pass. Because of her nice attitude, her pro israel stance, and her stance against arab/muslims, and she was clearly being candid, as if she was in her own home.. and she was talking very theoretically, a dream world.

I wouldn`t want to encourage people to say what she said though.. Those kind of statements could pander to those who would actively try to convert jews.

We had a politician, michael howard, who even though he did not win - i`m glad he did not win - (he is like all [leftist] jewish politicians). When talking on illegal immigration, he used to avoid using certain words, even though it said the same thing, because he didn`t want to pander to racists - he was often accused of pandering to them. But he dealt and talked on the issue, because if he doesn`t, then they e.g. BNP(british nationalist party, nazis in suits), will, and the BNP would win votes.