Author Topic: Wow...  (Read 11584 times)

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Offline Mike?

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Wow...
« on: October 23, 2006, 07:47:19 PM »
I respect Judaism and all that..so I'm not going to say anything about your religion/belifs.. I just wanted to sign up on this forum for no apperent reason, just to tell you how sick you people are..and no I am not a Muslim, I am Catholic..

Rhuan

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2006, 07:53:11 PM »
Tell us, in what way are we sick?

Insulting without explanation is called defaming, and is most definitely not a good thing to partake in.

Offline Mike?

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2006, 07:56:36 PM »
Im sorry if it came across as defaming..but (even if I cannot blame you) This site is totatly Bias. Sure, many(many) suicide bombers are islamic and only wish to bring hatred in a warped perception of "religion", but taking that and calling Islam a World Crisis, I find that sick.

Rhuan

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2006, 08:06:07 PM »
To understand why we say that Islam is evil, read some of the quran (the following link eads to a muslim website with the quran sorted by topic for convenience): http://islamicity.com/mosque/TOPICI.HTM

If you want to understand quite why we say it's a world crisis, look at the figures (84 were killed by muslims today): http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html

Offline Mike?

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2006, 08:10:46 PM »
To understand why we say that Islam is evil, read some of the quran (the following link eads to a muslim website with the quran sorted by topic for convenience): http://islamicity.com/mosque/TOPICI.HTM

If you want to understand quite why we say it's a world crisis, look at the figures (84 were killed by muslims today): http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html

Actually, they were killed by terrorists, and that is horrible...but did the entire Islam community support that, definetly not, they aren't all evil you know...sure, you guys have valid points, and anyone who attacks you directly does not have a right to do so, I just wish people with views such as your could only look at the Islamic world in a different way

Rhuan

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2006, 08:16:37 PM »
Lets look at a few verses from the quran:

Qur’an:9:5   “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 9:71   “O Prophet, strive hard [fighting] against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be harsh with them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.”

Qur’an 8:59   “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

I'll find a few more if you want me to.

Offline cjd

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2006, 08:17:51 PM »
To understand why we say that Islam is evil, read some of the quran (the following link eads to a muslim website with the quran sorted by topic for convenience): http://islamicity.com/mosque/TOPICI.HTM

If you want to understand quite why we say it's a world crisis, look at the figures (84 were killed by muslims today): http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html

Actually, they were killed by terrorists, and that is horrible...but did the entire Islam community support that, definetly not, they aren't all evil you know...sure, you guys have valid points, and anyone who attacks you directly does not have a right to do so, I just wish people with views such as your could only look at the Islamic world in a different way
Hello mike tell me why Muslim civilians were dancing in the street of New York after 9-11
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

A light on to the nations for 60 years


Offline Mike?

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2006, 08:18:25 PM »
Lets look at a few verses from the quran:

Qur’an:9:5   “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 9:71   “O Prophet, strive hard [fighting] against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be harsh with them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.”

Qur’an 8:59   “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

I'll find a few more if you want me to.

As I am not that good on Muslim Religion, may I ask when most of the Qur'an was written, it was a long time ago correct?

Offline Mike?

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2006, 08:19:48 PM »
Quote
Hello mike tell me why Muslim civilians were dancing in the street of New York after 9-11
Quote

 
Quote
Actually, they were killed by terrorists, and that is horrible...but did the entire Islam community support that, definetly not, they aren't all evil you know...sure, you guys have valid points, and anyone who attacks you directly does not have a right to do so, I just wish people with views such as your could only look at the Islamic world in a different way


There are sick and evil people in this world, and everyone sins...but your are stereotyping :-\

Rhuan

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2006, 08:20:47 PM »
the quran was written a long time ago, about 600AD, however, a key belief in the Islamic religion is that the quran is the final word of Allah, that there is a copy on earth and a copy in heaven and they are one and the same, therefore, either a Muslim believes that these verses apply to him today, or he is not a Muslim.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 08:31:36 PM by Rhuan »

Offline Mike?

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2006, 08:27:20 PM »
It was a long time ago, about 600AD, however, a key belief of Muslims is that the quran is the final word of G-d, that there is a copy on earth and a copy in heaven and they are one and the same, therefore, either a Muslim believes that these verses apply to him today, or he is not a Muslim.

This is their religious text, written , like you said about 600AD. In that time there were many wars or racial/religious conflicts, as in that time rulers were often religious ones. But besides those verses in the Qur'an, there is much more that ordinary Muslim people follow. Can't you except that just because it was written in a time that is very unlike ours, and by people of different mindset, that it is not completely evil. When  Joshua led the Israelites into Canaan, did they not slaughter and burn every city in their path? It was in the Bible, and in mine they have a little excerpt, stating why this was acceptable, and it argued that the  time difference was a key to understanding this. Just because It is in their scripture means that it is an evil book? I think not

Rhuan

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2006, 08:31:02 PM »
Nowhere in the bible does it give a general command to kill all non-believers, the conficts in the bible are always specific cases, in the quran on the other hand, the orders are general rather than specific, they are general commands to kill or convert all non-believers. And they belive that this is the final word of Allah.

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2006, 08:32:26 PM »
To understand why we say that Islam is evil, read some of the quran (the following link eads to a muslim website with the quran sorted by topic for convenience): http://islamicity.com/mosque/TOPICI.HTM

If you want to understand quite why we say it's a world crisis, look at the figures (84 were killed by muslims today): http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html

 I just wish people with views such as your could only look at the Islamic world in a different way

The reason Jews view Muslims as we do is we lived with them and under them for thirteen hundred years of hell on earth. We did not learn about Muslims/Arabs from a seminar at whatever University you've gone too but through first hand experience and what Al Queda does is what Muslims/Arabs have always done and will always do so long as they follow their ideology of death.

Let me put Islam into perspective according to the UN there are currently 30 world conflicts going on, of those thirty 28 involve Muslims.

It was a long time ago, about 600AD, however, a key belief of Muslims is that the quran is the final word of G-d, that there is a copy on earth and a copy in heaven and they are one and the same, therefore, either a Muslim believes that these verses apply to him today, or he is not a Muslim.

This is their religious text, written , like you said about 600AD. In that time there were many wars or racial/religious conflicts, as in that time rulers were often religious ones. But besides those verses in the Qur'an, there is much more that ordinary Muslim people follow. Can't you except that just because it was written in a time that is very unlike ours, and by people of different mindset, that it is not completely evil. When Joshua led the Israelites into Canaan, did they not slaughter and burn every city in their path? It was in the Bible, and in mine they have a little excerpt, stating why this was acceptable, and it argued that the time difference was a key to understanding this. Just because It is in their scripture means that it is an evil book? I think not

The difference is that Muslims have never stopped murdering and destroying everything in their path. Besides which the Torah is from Hashem and eternal it is as applicable today as when it was revealed and yes that includes the rules of war. There are specific times and places to be merciless as the Ramban says: "For it is through the mercy of fools that all justice is lost". For example when a Goyish nation wages war against the Jewish people it is a great Mitzvah to wipe them out that is and will always be true. But in Judaism there is no obligation to forcibly convert all non-believers like in Islam.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline Mike?

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2006, 08:34:22 PM »
Nowhere in the bible does it give a general command to kill all non-believers, the conficts in the bible are always specific cases, in the quran on the other hand, the orders are general rather than specific, they are general commands to kill or convert all non-believers. And they belive that this is the final word of Allah.

I beleive it is commanded in the Ban to kill all survivors, women and children in a city, burn possesions,live stock, everything...

Offline cjd

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2006, 08:34:46 PM »
Nowhere in the bible does it give a general command to kill all non-believers, the conficts in the bible are always specific cases, in the quran on the other hand, the orders are general rather than specific, they are general commands to kill or convert all non-believers. And they belive that this is the final word of Allah.
Exactly and for vast majority of Muslims follow this to the letter!!
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

A light on to the nations for 60 years


Rhuan

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2006, 08:36:26 PM »
Nowhere in the bible does it give a general command to kill all non-believers, the conflicts in the bible are always specific cases, in the quran on the other hand, the orders are general rather than specific, they are general commands to kill or convert all non-believers. And they believe that this is the final word of Allah.

I believe it is commanded in the Ban to kill all survivors, women and children in a city, burn possesions,live stock, everything...
In a specific case. One particular event, not a general command, that is one of the key differences.

Offline Mike?

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2006, 08:36:35 PM »
Nowhere in the bible does it give a general command to kill all non-believers, the conficts in the bible are always specific cases, in the quran on the other hand, the orders are general rather than specific, they are general commands to kill or convert all non-believers. And they belive that this is the final word of Allah.
Exactly and for vast majority of Muslims follow this to the letter!!

vast majority?

Offline Mike?

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2006, 08:38:11 PM »
To understand why we say that Islam is evil, read some of the quran (the following link eads to a muslim website with the quran sorted by topic for convenience): http://islamicity.com/mosque/TOPICI.HTM

If you want to understand quite why we say it's a world crisis, look at the figures (84 were killed by muslims today): http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html

 I just wish people with views such as your could only look at the Islamic world in a different way

The reason Jews view Muslims as we do is we lived with them and under them for thirteen hundred years of hell on earth. We did not learn about Muslims/Arabs from a seminar at whatever University you've gone too but through first hand experience and what Al Queda does is what Muslims/Arabs have always done and will always do so long as they follow their ideology of death.

Let me put Islam into perspective according to the UN there are currently 30 world conflicts going on, of those thirty 28 involve Muslims.

It was a long time ago, about 600AD, however, a key belief of Muslims is that the quran is the final word of G-d, that there is a copy on earth and a copy in heaven and they are one and the same, therefore, either a Muslim believes that these verses apply to him today, or he is not a Muslim.

This is their religious text, written , like you said about 600AD. In that time there were many wars or racial/religious conflicts, as in that time rulers were often religious ones. But besides those verses in the Qur'an, there is much more that ordinary Muslim people follow. Can't you except that just because it was written in a time that is very unlike ours, and by people of different mindset, that it is not completely evil. When Joshua led the Israelites into Canaan, did they not slaughter and burn every city in their path? It was in the Bible, and in mine they have a little excerpt, stating why this was acceptable, and it argued that the time difference was a key to understanding this. Just because It is in their scripture means that it is an evil book? I think not

The difference is that Muslims have never stopped murdering and destroying everything in their path. Besides which the Torah is from Hashem and eternal it is as applicable today as when it was revealed and yes that includes the rules of war. There are specific times and places to be merciless as the Ramban says: "For it is through the mercy of fools that all justice is lost". For example when a Goyish nation wages war against the Jewish people it is a great Mitzvah to wipe them out that is and will always be true. But in Judaism there is no obligation to forcibly convert all non-believers like in Islam.

I am a sophmore in highschool, and before you say anything, I undertsand completely that every single one of you is more knowledegable on this subject that I, But I never came here to debate that, just to simply find out why you stereotype the entire Islamic Culture, Religion, and people..

Rhuan

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2006, 08:42:28 PM »
This site, run by an ex-muslim puts it pretty well: http://www.faithfreedom.org/faq.htm
(note, I do not agree with everything that he says)

Of particular note is this page: http://www.faithfreedom.org/challenge.htm
« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 08:48:09 PM by Rhuan »

Offline cjd

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2006, 08:43:28 PM »
Nowhere in the bible does it give a general command to kill all non-believers, the conficts in the bible are always specific cases, in the quran on the other hand, the orders are general rather than specific, they are general commands to kill or convert all non-believers. And they belive that this is the final word of Allah.
Exactly and for vast majority of Muslims follow this to the letter!!

vast majority?
Yes vast majority. Most Muslim people if not actively participating in terrorism have full sympathy for it.
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

A light on to the nations for 60 years


Offline Mike?

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2006, 08:53:14 PM »
Nowhere in the bible does it give a general command to kill all non-believers, the conficts in the bible are always specific cases, in the quran on the other hand, the orders are general rather than specific, they are general commands to kill or convert all non-believers. And they belive that this is the final word of Allah.
Exactly and for vast majority of Muslims follow this to the letter!!

vast majority?
Yes vast majority. Most Muslim people if not actively participating in terrorism have full sympathy for it.



Sympathetic, in what ways? I believe every side has a sympathy, bias u can call it, towards their own people, even in terrible acts, but that does not mean they support them..most don't even want to be associated with them. Look, this can go on forever, all I was tryign to get at is why can you not be sympathetic to those muslims who have nothing agianst you, those that work to stop terrorism, or for the better of the united states...I see a thread in this forum titled " Muslim on U.S Senate...oh no" or something along those lines..It all comes down to the same question, Why stereotype EVERYSINGLE Muslim...

Rhuan

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2006, 08:56:48 PM »
The organisation "Council on American Islamic relations" is often put forward as condemning terrorist attacks, and being peaceful etc, however, it is bow well known that they are funded by the terrorist organisation "Hamas", ever heard of fifth column tactics, how do you know that all "peaceful" Muslims are not the same?

Offline Mike?

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2006, 08:57:36 PM »
The organisation "Council on American Islamic relations" is often put forward as condemning terrorist attacks, and being peaceful etc, however, it is bow well known that they are funded by the terrorist organisation "Hamas", ever heard of fifth column tactics, how do you know that all "peaceful" Muslims are not the same?

I don't, but neither do you

Rhuan

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2006, 08:59:03 PM »
....if they are following their religion, they are, that is the thing.

Offline Mike?

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Re: Wow...
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2006, 09:01:38 PM »
....if they are following their religion, they are, that is the thing.

if they follow their religion they support terrorism? By funding their religion they must be doing so just to fund terrorism? I really can't argue on this point as I am not that familiar with this..but your saying that every muslim organization leads back to terrorism, which Is not true..