JTF.ORG Forum
Torah and Jewish Idea => Torah and Jewish Idea => Topic started by: SanDiegoShana on June 10, 2007, 11:32:51 PM
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and how do (we) know we are righteous?
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Yes. If you do the 7 laws of Noah then you are righteous.
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Well, their actions would have to match their speech, for starters.
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What is eating a limb torn from a live animal? And how do we know if we are doing this?
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What is eating a limb torn from a live animal? And how do we know if we are doing this?
It just means eating meat that was taken from an animal while it was still alive. I think as long as you're buying your meat at a store your pretty safe.
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Who is Jimmy Sullivan?
...I think I answered my question...he's a JTF'er no doubt...
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and how do (we) know we are righteous?
Hello my friend, and good day to you.
When I see the term "saved" it seems like you're speaking from a Christian slant. The Torah perspective is not that man is evil and lost, and is born with the stain of "original sin". Are you interested in what the Torah has to say about the destiny of the nations of the world?
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What is eating a limb torn from a live animal? And how do we know if we are doing this?
It just means eating meat that was taken from an animal while it was still alive. I think as long as you're buying your meat at a store your pretty safe.
Not exactly. Many non-Kosher butchers will start cutting the meat while the animal is an an unconscious state (they shock them) but not yet dead. Eating such meat would be a serious violation. It is recommended to buy Kosher meat to avoid this problem as apparently Jimmy does.
Also I'm told that on the show "Fear Factor" they will sometimes violate this prohibition by having people eat live stuff.
Also I think UntilShilohComes hits the nail on the head again here. The idea of "savior" is more of a Christian idea. In Judaism we beleive in hevean and hell, but they are nothing like what most people believe they are. Our main focus is in making THIS world into a place where G-d's presence is revealed. With that said, there is tremendous reward for those who follow the Noachide commandments in this world and the next.
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What is eating a limb torn from a live animal? And how do we know if we are doing this?
It just means eating meat that was taken from an animal while it was still alive. I think as long as you're buying your meat at a store your pretty safe.
Not exactly. Many non-Kosher butchers will start cutting the meat while the animal is an an unconscious state (they shock them) but not yet dead. Eating such meat would be a serious violation. It is recommended to buy Kosher meat to avoid this problem as apparently Jimmy does.
Also I'm told that on the show "Fear Factor" they will sometimes violate this prohibition by having people eat live stuff.
Eww... that's disgusting. And as for Fear Factor, I'm not surprised. What a stupid show that was. "To win the money, all you have to do is eat these pig's testicles!"
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Eww... that's disgusting. And as for Fear Factor, I'm not surprised. What a stupid show that was. "To win the money, all you have to do is eat these pig's testicles!"
NOT kosher! lol
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Actually, I read the term "Saved" on this site, but I can't find the post at the moment....Something to do with Judaism being different from other religions in that under Judaism "righteous gentiles" could be saved...
Hence my question...
:)
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I suppose the author of that post was using terms that everyone on the forum could understand.
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ok, so what is the after life, and if there is a good place to be rather than bad, does a righteous gentile wind up in the good place? And do the seven laws of Noah determine the righteousness of a gentile?
:)
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ok, so what is the after life, and if there is a good place to be rather than bad, does a righteous gentile wind up in the good place? And do the seven laws of Noah determine the righteousness of a gentile?
:)
Talk to lubab about this.
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And who is Lubab?
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He's the Rabbi of this section.
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ok, so what is the after life, and if there is a good place to be rather than bad, does a righteous gentile wind up in the good place? And do the seven laws of Noah determine the righteousness of a gentile?
:)
Yes Shana, I'm the all knowing Rabbi which you seek ;D. What a joke.
Anyway I do know a thing or two about the after-life because it is treated in depth in hasidic manuscripts.
1. "what is the after life?"
There are two stage or aspects of the after-life. One is souls without bodies and the other is souls within bodies also known as the period of the resurrection of the dead.
2. "is [there] a good place to be rather than bad?
Yes there is a good and bad "place" except that it's really all the same "place". It's a spiritual "place", not a physical "place".
The after-life is simply a direct perception of G-dliness and the ultimate truth.
For those who lived truth and revolved their lives around doing what G-d wants...it's heaven. For those who didn't...it's hell.
(But it's only temporary. Everybody eventually breaks out of those preconceived false notions they had, but it's a painful process. Many people go through hell in this life and that spares them from the hell of the next world. That's why in JTF we like to give people hell. ;D It's good for them in the long run. ;) )
3. "does a righteous gentile wind up in the good place?"
Yes.
4. "And do the seven laws of Noah determine the righteousness of a gentile?
That is a large part of the determination, but it's not the only thing.
G-d willing some time I'll post a hasidic manuscript on this topic I'm sure you'll find very interesting.
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Lubab, you think heaven and hell are the same place? I don't. Where do you get this idea from?
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yes judaism does not believe in a christian hell in which the devil whips you we believe that u just have to learn what you did wrong in your lifetime.it shows the sinner how much of a righteous person he couldve been and were hee went wrong. the sinner will hopefully learn from what he did and accepet his punishment from god
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Well, that's not the hell in my branch of Judaism. The Talmud lists the punishments of certain evil people in hell and it describes actual punishments like boiling inside something and stuff like that. Lubab, do you know which tractate this was in?
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Well, that's not the hell in my branch of Judaism. The Talmud lists the punishments of certain evil people in hell and it describes actual punishments like boiling inside something and stuff like that. Lubab, do you know which tractate this was in?
JDL4ever,
I'll try to get you sources when I have time. But you are correct that the Talmud lists certain types of punishments in physical terms becasue this is all people can understand. However, the Talmud also states that those punishments are allegorical. Heaven and hell are spiritual "places" not physical ones. In truth the spiritual pain is much worse than physical pain and the spiritual pleasure much greater than physical pleasure-so this is not to minimize it. .But in the first kind of after-life, the one where the soul is separated from the body-the body stays here-so there cannot be hell in the physical sense that most ppl. understand it to be.
JDL4ever: read the rest of the post and you'll see what I mean.
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That was a very good answer Lubab, as the Rambam says that the Torah speaks allegorically in the language that people understand. ;D My only problem is that you don't know exactly what hell is like and you are saying things that suggest that you do know what it is like and you are inadvertently minimizing it while in fact it would be best to keep it as the Talmud describes it even if it is allegorical.
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That was a good answer Lubab, as the Rambam says that the Torah speaks allegorically in the language that people understand. My only problem is that you don't know exactly what hell is like and you are saying things that suggest that you do know what it is like and you are inadvertently minimizing it while in fact it would be best to keep it as the Talmud describes it even if it is allegorical.
I said it's a direct perception of G-dliness, I didn't know anyone would think that's implying I know exactly what it's like. I'm flattered though ;).
By the way the indirect quote from the Talmud is: "In the next world there is no eating and no drinking, the righteous sit with 'crowns' on their heads and take pleasure from the splendor of the Shechina" (revelation of G-d).
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I should add that the Torah does give some examples of ways we could have a glimpse into what the next world is like. It says Torah learning is "Mein Olam Haba" a glimpse of the world to come. And it also says that Shabbos is also compared to the next world in our prayers we say after we eat. Physical suffering is like 1/60 (I beleive) of what we call hell.
(NOTE: not true for gentiles, gentiles are not allowed to keep the sabbath).
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A related question I have as a Christian- I often wonder if G-d had one requirement for Gentiles in the book of Moses, why a different set of rules now, if G-d is unchanging, as we believe He is....are any of the promises to Abraham promises to the Gentiles? What about the law to tithe and the promises to fill the barns, applicable to Gentiles?
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Ahhhh
But as one of my friends from Israel says, Jesus was as Jewish as one can get.
The Idea of "being saved" came from the time of the apostles
of course they came from the words of Jesus himself, and were expanded upon.
but it was well after the time of Jesus and it was also within the roman empire, where the idea of being saved came from the Greeks.
The Word "Christ" Means THE ANOINTED ONE, which until that time was clearly only used in the east and as far west as Rome, But it's original place came from Tibet, India, and Greece.
The Idea of reincarnation of course was and idea that went as far back as the Sumarians and the Egyptian Coptics, which explains why they took to the Christian idea so quickly.
But back to the subject at hand.
The following of the ten commandments is part of the Christian ideal also....Jesus clearly spoke of the ten commandments, He said to follow the commandments, but to follow one above all.
To Love god with all your heart and soul, and To love your nabhor as you would love your self.
If this isn't a Hebrew thought, i don't know what is.
He's saying make your life a mitzvah (if that's spelled correctly) essentially he's saying, be a mench. (more possible misspelling).
Getting back to the topic, (lol) even Jesus was clear that a good person would go to heaven, it's just that allot of Hard core Christians sight the sentence "None will come to the father but through me" which Jesus said....at the same time Jesus was a Jew, therefore he followed the laws of moses, and they are clear in that a good man who follows the laws of Noah will see heaven.
It's a very touchy subject for some.
But I think if God made me in his image, then he should have compassion for a good man who may have made mistakes but was not perfect.............after all, we're not gods.
Sorry for straying off the subject.
Such is the long winded Deacon (lol)
Love and Light all
P.S. Please pardon the misspelling
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I like your answer.
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Rev Mathiew, the 7 noahide laws are different than the Ten Commandments in the Bible, so I guess we have a difference of opinion.
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yes judaism does not believe in a christian hell in which the devil whips you we believe that u just have to learn what you did wrong in your lifetime.it shows the sinner how much of a righteous person he couldve been and were hee went wrong. the sinner will hopefully learn from what he did and accepet his punishment from G-d
"christian hell in which the devil whips you", where do you get this idea from, as a christian ultimately I think of hell as being seperation from God, total seperation from God, that's "all" it is. The devil doesn't whip you or anything.
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yes judaism does not believe in a christian hell in which the devil whips you we believe that u just have to learn what you did wrong in your lifetime.it shows the sinner how much of a righteous person he couldve been and were hee went wrong. the sinner will hopefully learn from what he did and accepet his punishment from G-d
"christian hell in which the devil whips you", where do you get this idea from, as a christian ultimately I think of hell as being seperation from G-d, total seperation from G-d, that's "all" it is. The devil doesn't whip you or anything.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Newman, where do you find the expansion of the Noah laws to 88?
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haha
I am not in a panic, just wondering what book the 88 laws are in. I bless Israel, so I am blessed!
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haha
I am not in a panic, just wondering what book the 88 laws are in. I bless Israel, so I am blessed!
Its not exactly 88 laws, but the original 7 are very general the 88 are really just the specifics of each law
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That's right. 10 commandments (groups) become 613 individual laws.
7 noachide commandments become 88. Interesting to note that 88 is approximately 1/7 of 613.
Wow... very interesting! I wonder if there's any commentary on that? Interesting find, newman. Amazing.
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Newman, my old office-mate/co-counsel used to tell me I knew more about Judaism than did half the people in his Synagogue. ;D
I can even sing the Shema.
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Newman, my old office-mate/co-counsel used to tell me I knew more about Judaism than did half the people in his Synagogue. ;D
I can even sing the Shema.
It happens alot these days. I have a few secular jewish friends and anything they know about Judaism they learned from me!
How screwed up is it when jews are cooking bacon on saturday morning and a gentile(me) shakes his head in disgust and says "averah......shabbat!" >:(
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A related question I have as a Christian- I often wonder if G-d had one requirement for Gentiles in the book of Moses, why a different set of rules now, if G-d is unchanging, as we believe He is....are any of the promises to Abraham promises to the Gentiles? What about the law to tithe and the promises to fill the barns, applicable to Gentiles?
In Judaism the requirements of the Bible for gentiles are every bit as in effect and unchanged as they were when they were given.
Someone already mentioned to you about a promise to Abraham applicable to the gentiles. I would just add that gentiles are assured great reward for their good deeds and this especially includes giving to charity.
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A related question I have as a Christian- I often wonder if G-d had one requirement for Gentiles in the book of Moses, why a different set of rules now, if G-d is unchanging, as we believe He is....are any of the promises to Abraham promises to the Gentiles? What about the law to tithe and the promises to fill the barns, applicable to Gentiles?
Hashem has no requirments upon the Goyim in the Torah, that is only for the Jews.
No you have no share in the promises made to Avraham, again only for the Jewish people.
No tithes dont apply to you
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A related question I have as a Christian- I often wonder if G-d had one requirement for Gentiles in the book of Moses, why a different set of rules now, if G-d is unchanging, as we believe He is....are any of the promises to Abraham promises to the Gentiles? What about the law to tithe and the promises to fill the barns, applicable to Gentiles?
Hashem has no requirments upon the Goyim in the Torah, that is only for the Jews.
No you have no share in the promises made to Avraham, again only for the Jewish people.
No tithes dont apply to you
The promise to Avrom included a promise to bless "those " who bless his seed and curse "those" who curse them. "Those" has to refur to gentiles as there are only three parties here. So gentiles are included as far as that bit is concerned, but talmudic law does NOT apply, only the 7 laws of Noach .
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A related question I have as a Christian- I often wonder if G-d had one requirement for Gentiles in the book of Moses, why a different set of rules now, if G-d is unchanging, as we believe He is....are any of the promises to Abraham promises to the Gentiles? What about the law to tithe and the promises to fill the barns, applicable to Gentiles?
Hashem has no requirments upon the Goyim in the Torah, that is only for the Jews.
No you have no share in the promises made to Avraham, again only for the Jewish people.
No tithes dont apply to you
Kahaneloyalist,
I'm a little surprised by your comments here. Of course there are requirement for gentiles in the Torah! All of the Noachide laws are sourced there, taken mainly from the early parts of Bereishit (Genesis).
Did you have a bad experience with a gentile today? ;D
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A related question I have as a Christian- I often wonder if G-d had one requirement for Gentiles in the book of Moses, why a different set of rules now, if G-d is unchanging, as we believe He is....are any of the promises to Abraham promises to the Gentiles? What about the law to tithe and the promises to fill the barns, applicable to Gentiles?
Hashem has no requirments upon the Goyim in the Torah, that is only for the Jews.
No you have no share in the promises made to Avraham, again only for the Jewish people.
No tithes dont apply to you
Sorry, you are correct their are parts of the Torah relevant to Goyim.
Kahaneloyalist,
I'm a little surprised by your comments here. Of course there are requirement for gentiles in the Torah! All of the Noachide laws are sourced there, taken mainly from the early parts of Bereishit (Genesis).
Did you have a bad experience with a gentile today? ;D
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Yes. If you do the 7 laws of Noah then you are righteous.
Exactly.
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A righteous gentile sees a necessary correlation between the Old and New Testaments and recognizes Israel as the Holy Land.
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A righteous gentile sees a necessary correlation between the Old and New Testaments and recognizes Israel as the Holy Land.
Just to clarify. What is quoted above regarding the New Testament is NOT the Jewish-Torah view.
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Just to clarify. What is quoted above regarding the New Testament is NOT the Jewish-Torah view.
Well of course, how could the Torah have an opinion on Righteous Gentiles when Judaism was discovered Thousands of Years before the New Testament !!
We are speaking Contemporary Terms Here, NOT Tanach Theology on Righteous Gentiles LOL :laugh: ... which as I just explained would be Rather Impossible ! ;)
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That is not true. The Torah does have a concept of a rightoeous gentile, and it existed long before the "New Testament" existed.
Noah, for instance was a righteous gentile as there were not Jews yet until Abraham.
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These terms did not refer to the Contemporary Righteous Gentiles... Which are popularly seen today as Evangelicals ? I highly doubt Noah was an Evangelical !! ;)
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ScotcH, please be respectful. This is becoming divisive.
Being a righteous gentile has nothing to do with being or not being evangelical. Being a righteous gentile means living by 7 rules:
1 Prohibition against idolatry
2 Prohibition against blasphemy
3 Prohibition against murder
4 Prohibition against theft
5 Prohibition against sexual immorality
6 Prohibition against eating the limb of a living animal
7 Establish courts of justice
If you want more information, it can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah)
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So therefore I suppose the Ten Commandments are bunch of malarky !!
Someone better tell Neo-Nazi Benedict !
I'm giving you a warning, ScotcH. Please don't try my patience today.
The Ten Commandments were given to the Jewish people (not the gentiles) on Mt. Sinai and are the basis of the 613 commandments we follow in the Torah.
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Wasn't Moses's wife Zipporah and father-in-law Yitro, both gentiles, also present at Sinai? ???
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Wasn't Moses's wife Zipporah and father-in-law Yitro, both gentiles, also present at Sinai? ???
I'm pretty sure they both converted (however that was done back then), but then Yitro eventually went back to his people. But I could be wrong.
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So therefore I suppose the Ten Commandments are bunch of malarky !!
Someone better tell Neo-Nazi Benedict !
I'm giving you a warning, ScotcH. Please don't try my patience today.
The Ten Commandments were given to the Jewish people (not the gentiles) on Mt. Sinai and are the basis of the 613 commandments we follow in the Torah.
I don't mean to arise any offensiveness at all but could it be said that the Ten Commandments were given to the Jewish people but as a guidance for the whole of humanity because surely they should convince people of the truth?
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Wasn't Moses's wife Zipporah and father-in-law Yitro, both gentiles, also present at Sinai? ???
I'm pretty sure they both converted (however that was done back then), but then Yitro eventually went back to his people. But I could be wrong.
Yes. They converted. And Yisro went back to convert his own people to Judaism too.
It was pretty easy to convert to Judaism before the giving of the Torah. Not so now.
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So therefore I suppose the Ten Commandments are bunch of malarky !!
Someone better tell Neo-Nazi Benedict !
I'm giving you a warning, ScotcH. Please don't try my patience today.
The Ten Commandments were given to the Jewish people (not the gentiles) on Mt. Sinai and are the basis of the 613 commandments we follow in the Torah.
I don't mean to arise any offensiveness at all but could it be said that the Ten Commandments were given to the Jewish people but as a guidance for the whole of humanity because surely they should convince people of the truth?
The truth is that the 10 commandments were given for the Jews and the 7 Noahide laws were given for the rest of humanity.
If the gentiles start doing the job of the Jews or the Jews start doing the jobs of the gentiles, then there would be a lack of truth.
With that said, gentiles who are observant in their 7 can start to take on some of the 613 commandments (with a few exceptions), but this is for the purpose of receiving reward, but is not obligatory.
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Yes, i just realised that because they are commandments and in affect, rules they are directed towards the Jews.
Is the Talmud different from the Torah sent down on the tablets, was it the same thing just orally or more teachings?
Lubab you are the most fantastic religious moderator ever! I have learnt and understood so much from your answers, thank you so much and i hope your knowledge grants you many blessings!
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Yes, i just realised that because they are commandments and in affect, rules they are directed towards the Jews.
Is the Talmud different from the Torah sent down on the tablets, was it the same thing just orally or more teachings?
Lubab you are the most fantastic religious moderator ever! I have learnt and understood so much from your answers, thank you so much and i hope your knowledge grants you many blessings!
Well, no the Talmud is not different.
It says in the Rabbinic commentaries that every detail of Judaism is included in those 10 commandments. (It even says that all 613 commandments are included in the first two commandments!) Those 10 are the general framework and the 613 give you the details.
All the knowledge of the Talmud was given on Sinai along with those 10 commandments to Moses. That knowledge was not a new thing that started when the Talmud was written down. That knowledge of the details of how to put the Torah into practice was handed down in an oral chain for 40 generations by the greatest Jewish leaders and scholars. Eventually those teachings were written down and that's why we have the written Talmud.
But really it's all only ONE Torah. You can't have the oral Torah without the written and you can't have the written Torah without the oral commentary. It's all the same thing, only differnet parts were handed down to us different ways. There are specifics and generalities, but it's all one Torah.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad to help in any way I can. And "Amein" to that blessing!
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There is this guy named Bear Grylls, from England, who has a show on Discovery channel, called "Man VS. Wild", where he just LOVES eating carcasses of dead animals, and tearing out and eating the backs of fish while the fish is alive and kicking, even though he even has the ability to make fire most of the time AND to kill the fish first... None of this is allowed, right?
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There is this guy named Bear Grylls, from England, who has a show on Discovery channel, called "Man VS. Wild", where he just LOVES eating carcasses of dead animals, and tearing out and eating the backs of fish while the fish is alive and kicking, even though he even has the ability to make fire most of the time AND to kill the fish first... None of this is allowed, right?
No, you can't eat flesh torn from a living animal.
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There is this guy named Bear Grylls, from England, who has a show on Discovery channel, called "Man VS. Wild", where he just LOVES eating carcasses of dead animals, and tearing out and eating the backs of fish while the fish is alive and kicking, even though he even has the ability to make fire most of the time AND to kill the fish first... None of this is allowed, right?
No, you can't eat flesh torn from a living animal.
Right.
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you don't know if someone is righteous in these blogs.........you have to take my word for it.
as for Noah's 7 laws except for the fact that i haven't been able to follow the 7th law (setting up a courtroom to follow the other 6 laws) i follow the rest.
I also attempt and for the most part I'm successful in keeping the 7 deadly sins at bay, and of course
gods first ten commandments. (I know it's a bit more complex then ten for the Jewish Faith)
So according to Hebrew text I am righteous, and Ususaly i don't talk about my being righteous because that aint humble, but you asked, so i answered.
:-)
Rev Mathew
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Rev_Matthew
Are you a Zionist?
Jeff
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my understanding is a gentile would be "saved"if the 7 laws were observed,
The Rambam in Hilchos Melachim 8:11, writes that all Benei Noach who accept upon themselves the Seven Mitzvos and are careful to keep them and are precise in their observance are termed 'Chasidei Umos ha'Olam' ('the Pious Ones of the Nations') and they merit a share in the World to Come.
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my understanding is a gentile would be "saved"if the 7 laws were observed,
The Rambam in Hilchos Melachim 8:11, writes that all Benei Noach who accept upon themselves the Seven Mitzvos and are careful to keep them and are precise in their observance are termed 'Chasidei Umos ha'Olam' ('the Pious Ones of the Nations') and they merit a share in the World to Come.
Correct. :)
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I should add that the Torah does give some examples of ways we could have a glimpse into what the next world is like. It says Torah learning is "Mein Olam Haba" a glimpse of the world to come. And it also says that Shabbos is also compared to the next world in our prayers we say after we eat. Physical suffering is like 1/60 (I beleive) of what we call hell.
(NOTE: not true for gentiles, gentiles are not allowed to keep the sabbath).
What if a gentile keeps the Sabbath in the same way a Jew does anyway? Would that gentile be in serious trouble with HaShem?
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What if a gentile keeps the Sabbath in the same way a Jew does anyway? Would that gentile be in serious trouble with HaShem?
I can't speak for Him, but Torah tells us that G_d intended the Jews to be a nation of priests and stand apart from the other nations. If gentiles go around impersonating Jews it undermines His plan.
Example: What would the clergy say about catholic lay-persons dressing as priests & nuns and living as they do?......... Not good, right?
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The rabbis tell us the Sabbath day is a miniature picture of olam habah (the age to come) when Messiah will be king and there will never again be inequity or want. The Sabbath is also how we know we are worshipping the G-d of Creation, because He created for six days and rested on Shabbat (the seventh day). In Judaism, we are counted as sons when we do what the father does.
but also in support of Gentiles..Isaiah also says that Gentiles must keep all 613 laws of the Mosaic Covenant not just the Sabbath.
ps.this is research i have done,on my journey as it were.
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The rabbis tell us the Sabbath day is a miniature picture of olam habah (the age to come) when Messiah will be king and there will never again be inequity or want. The Sabbath is also how we know we are worshipping the G-d of Creation, because He created for six days and rested on Shabbat (the seventh day). In Judaism, we are counted as sons when we do what the father does.
but also in support of Gentiles..Isaiah also says that Gentiles must keep all 613 laws of the Mosaic Covenant not just the Sabbath.
ps.this is research i have done,on my journey as it were.
So gentiles can follow the 613 mitzvot - give or take a few - and there would be no problems with that?
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The rabbis tell us the Sabbath day is a miniature picture of olam habah (the age to come) when Messiah will be king and there will never again be inequity or want. The Sabbath is also how we know we are worshipping the G-d of Creation, because He created for six days and rested on Shabbat (the seventh day). In Judaism, we are counted as sons when we do what the father does.
but also in support of Gentiles..Isaiah also says that Gentiles must keep all 613 laws of the Mosaic Covenant not just the Sabbath.
ps.this is research i have done,on my journey as it were.
So gentiles can follow the 613 mitzvot - give or take a few - and there would be no problems with that?
All except the ones that would entail impersonating Jews such as tzit tzit, peyott, the same strict level of Shabbat observance etc.
Anything beyond the mandatory 7 Laws of Noah are optional.
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If you followed the Mitzvot ha Moshe you'd be Jewish. The Torah basically states to love thy neighbor and outlines the basic moral laws that are to be followed by humanity to produce a peaceful coexistance. The Jew follows the 10: 613 mitzvot and the Gentile those outlined by Noach. Being saved is in Hashem's hands as the Torah states I believe in Isaiah 43:11.
These basic laws for Jew and Gentile (because a Gentile can become a Jew if they so wish) there is no dogmas like one MUST accept any certain Prophet or messiah to be "saved" just try to be a good person via living by the Torah's moral laws. When the Moshiach comes everyone on Earth will know, it will not be an isolated occurance but something witnessed by all menkind...
Lubab can explain this further.... ;)
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If you followed the Mitzvot ha Moshe you'd be Jewish. The Torah basically states to love thy neighbor and outlines the basic moral laws that are to be followed by humanity to produce a peaceful coexistance. The Jew follows the 10: 613 mitzvot and the Gentile those outlined by Noach. Being saved is in Hashem's hands as the Torah states I believe in Isaiah 43:11.
These basic laws for Jew and Gentile (because a Gentile can become a Jew if they so wish) there is no dogmas like one MUST accept any certain Prophet or messiah to be "saved" just try to be a good person via living by the Torah's moral laws. When the Moshiach comes everyone on Earth will know, it will not be an isolated occurance but something witnessed by all menkind...
Lubab can explain this further.... ;)
yes,in my eyes the Jews were passed the laws,God chose you, your duty is clear.
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Well your eyes are clear. According to the Torah and the realities on the ground the Jewish people were chosen at Sinai from all the other nations to accept the immense responsibility of the Torah way/laws. The fact that this occurred in front of a multitude of people is the validation of HaShem and Judaism itself unlike the single or the few that "witnessed" Mohammed to validate the murderous cult of Islam. There is no obligation for any gentile to study Torah but only to live by the basic moral laws of Noah. Jews on the other hand are obligated to study Torah and learn to live and be Jewish.
Perhaps Lubab can clearify that for me. I'm still a learning Jew...lol ;)
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while it is clear that Gentiles cannot understand the "YOKE" of the Talmud or Torah,it is clear that any Gentile may follow any mitzvah to become closer to God,and still be a Gentile.as Priests of the nations of God it is encumbant on Jews to teach us gods will ----perhaps not a total observence in the jewish sense but volantary understanding that this will bring you closer to god.
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while it is clear that Gentiles cannot understand the "YOKE" of the Talmud or Torah,it is clear that any Gentile may follow any mitzvah to become closer to G-d,and still be a Gentile.as Priests of the nations of G-d it is encumbant on Jews to teach us gods will ----perhaps not a total observence in the jewish sense but volantary understanding that this will bring you closer to G-d.
That's how it was explained to me. The 7 Laws of Noah are the mandatory minimum. All the other 613 are optional EXCEPT those which are strictly for Jews only such as the wearing of Teffelin, Tzit Tzit etc. Those extra laws we take on get us extra blessings.
It's like the minimum obligation of a man is to attend school 'til 16, get a basic job and pay his way. If he does extra, like attending college, works overtime, saves and invests, he has a better life than if he just did the minimum.
We can have Saturday off, too. We just can't not turn lights on and not cook or impersonate Jews in any way.
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while it is clear that Gentiles cannot understand the "YOKE" of the Talmud or Torah,it is clear that any Gentile may follow any mitzvah to become closer to G-d,and still be a Gentile.as Priests of the nations of G-d it is encumbant on Jews to teach us gods will ----perhaps not a total observence in the jewish sense but volantary understanding that this will bring you closer to G-d.
To answer a previous question as well gentiles are stictly forbidden from keeping the Sabbath the way that Jews do. The penalty for doing this is death :o.
Other than that gentiles can take on most other Mitvot (even Shabbat if they do it in another way) for the purpose of gaining reward, but not as fulfillment of an obligation.
Gentiles can even understand the secrets of the Torah, by the way, if they connect themselves to a learned Jew!
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sorry i made a typo,should read. JUST NOT the sabbeth
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To answer a previous question as well gentiles are stictly forbidden from keeping the Sabbath the way that Jews do. The penalty for doing this is death :o.
Death just for that? It is not treason or serious violent crimes against society to keep the Sabbath the same way Jews do. What is the reason for that?
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To answer a previous question as well gentiles are stictly forbidden from keeping the Sabbath the way that Jews do. The penalty for doing this is death :o.
Death just for that? It is not treason or serious violent crimes against society to keep the Sabbath the same way Jews do. What is the reason for that?
I think it's because the death penalty comes for things where a person has compeltely corrupted his misison in the world, so his life has gone so wrong that he has to go. The purpose of the Noahide is to WORK and settle the world, making it a good moral and productive place EVERY DAY. To keep the world functioning while the Jews do their job on the Shabbos.
If the gentile is acting like the Jew and resting on Shabbos, while not keeping the world moving during that time then he's totally corrupted his mission in this world, and there's pretty much no more need for him here.
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I have always wondered about this. But didn't G-d tell Adam to rest on the Sabbath and Adam wasn't a Jew? I need to look that up. Maybe He just rested and didn't tell Adam.
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Yes but that was before the division between Jew and Noahide.
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Yes but that was before the division between Jew and Noahide.
Does that mean goyim have to work 7 days/week?
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Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.
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Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.
You mean NO vacation?
No day off for a family to go on a picnic?
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I don't think it's healthy to work every single day.
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I believe that it is only obligatory for Jews to rest on the Sabbath while the gentile can rest whatever day they so desire as, I am given to believe, the Torah's specifities only apply to the Jews and the Gentile - Noahide - while the rest of the Gentile are to learn HaShem's moral ways/laws from the former. Perhaps I am wrong but that is how I understand it.
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Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.
You mean NO vacation?
No day off for a family to go on a picnic?
I looked into this further. Jews are like the brain, and gentiles more like the heart which always need to be pumping in order of the body to work.
The brain needs to rest and go back to it's spiritual source and this is like how Jews need Shabbos as a time to sort of detach from the world and only think about G-dly matters. Gentiles should not be doing this any day.
With that said, if a gentile want to take a vacation in order so that he will be able to be rested in order to work better then that is fine!
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Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.
You mean NO vacation?
No day off for a family to go on a picnic?
I looked into this further. Jews are like the brain, and gentiles more like the heart which always need to be pumping in order of the body to work.
The brain needs to rest and go back to it's spiritual source and this is like how Jews need Shabbos as a time to sort of detach from the world and only think about G-dly matters. Gentiles should not be doing this any day.
With that said, if a gentile want to take a vacation in order so that he will be able to be rested in order to work better then that is fine!
That being said, Lubab.....
"work" in that sense could mean having the weekend off but still gardening, cooking etc?
A gentile can still retire from his job at sixty but still "work" in some other sense like fishing, I suppose.
The prohibition against gentiles observing Shabbos (meaning 'to cease') really referrs to gentiles stopping ALL forms of work in the same manner as Jews, is that not correct?
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Regarding retirement, the Lubavitcher Rebbe was vehemently against the concept. For very good reason.
Maybe I can find his writings on the topic for you.
If gardening and fishing are things that help the world work better and be more productive then I suppose that's work.
One should always, in general, try to do work that you love doing. This way you are always on vacation. ;)
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Regarding retirement, the Lubavitcher Rebbe was vehemently against the concept. For very good reason.
Maybe I can find his writings on the topic for you.
If gardening and fishing are things that help the world work better and be more productive then I suppose that's work.
One should always, in general, try to do work that you love doing. This way you are always on vacation. ;)
The definition of work is tricky.
A man who accumulates $2 million by age 45 and has an independent income of $130,000/ year doesn't need to work. One could argue that his 'work' is 30 minutes/ week checking his porfolio.
Secondly, some of the prohibitions put on gentiles in torah are not contained in the Sheva Mitzvot. (Shabbos observence for example).
Do the Talmudic prohibitions on gentiles only apply in Eretz Yisrael?
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A man who accumulates $2 million by age 45 and has an independent income of $130,000/ year doesn't need to work. One could argue that his 'work' is 30 minutes/ week checking his porfolio.
Is that you Newman?
Anyway, such a person should still find something productive to do with the rest of his time.
Why be content with $130,000/year when you can make millions a year building on those previous successes and with those skills and send Chaim to the Knesset in no time!
Too much time on anyone's hands is not a good thing. You should always be looking to accomplish more so you can change this world for the good. There's no time it's needed for good people to have lots of money.
The Talmudic prohibitions on gentiles apply everywhere.
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A man who accumulates $2 million by age 45 and has an independent income of $130,000/ year doesn't need to work. One could argue that his 'work' is 30 minutes/ week checking his porfolio.
Is that you Newman?
I WISH! :D
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The concept of an after-life isn't found in early Yahwism/"Judaism". It isn't until the Babylonian Captivity, when the Jews become grateful to their Persian liberator, Cyrus the Great (called "Mashiach" in Isaiah), that they start to assimilate Persian Zoroastrian doctrines.
Jewish "immortality" comes through having children.
Abraham died at a ripe old age, contented and satisfied. He did NOT die still searching for a city whose builder and maker was G-d, as the so-called "New Testament" asserts.
Just like my grandfather, who died at age 100, Abraham was ready to die.
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The concept of an after-life isn't found in early Yahwism/"Judaism". It isn't until the Babylonian Captivity, when the Jews become grateful to their Persian liberator, Cyrus the Great (called "Mashiach" in Isaiah), that they start to assimilate Persian Zoroastrian doctrines.
Jewish "immortality" comes through having children.
Abraham died at a ripe old age, contented and satisfied. He did NOT die still searching for a city whose builder and maker was G-d, as the so-called "New Testament" asserts.
Just like my grandfather, who died at age 100, Abraham was ready to die.
Judaism isnt just the written Torah, of course their is an after-life and we belive in it (Religious Jews). Its talked about from the Oral tradition. Anyway look at it logically- why would G-d create beings to just live in this world- most of the time struggling, etc. just to completly desroy them afterwards?
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Oral tradition only talks about it because the concept was assimilated from foreigners, probably to keep Judaism "competitive" with foreign religions.
There is no longer a need for this false advertising, because many people no longer believe in an after-life.
It's a false hope, or at least something that can't be proven.
If there was a reward or hope of after-life, it would have been mentioned in the written Torah (if you don't like that term, which I use to differentiate a clearly DIFFERENT body of literature from the Oral Torah, then call it the Pentateuch, if you wish).
What IS mentioned OFTEN in the Tanakh, but RARELY talked about in the Oral tradition or modern Judaism, from what I've observed, is SHEOL.
What is sheol? It's where you are DEAD.
Apologies, but that's the TRUTH of the Tanakh. Believe what you want, but the evidence is on MY side of the argument.
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I really suggest you read:
Soul Searching (Seeking Scientific Ground For The Jewish Tradition Of An Afterlife)
Author: Yaakov Astor
Publisher: Feldheim Publishers, 2003
ISBN: 1568712499
http://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=1-56871-249-9 (http://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=1-56871-249-9)
For over two centuries, scientists have denied or ignored the possiblity of an afterlife. Now, however, research has taken an unexpected turn, finding compelling evidence of the existence of life after death and the human soul. This beautifully written, well documented book compares ancient Jewish teachings, and contemporary research on the subject of the afterlife. It is a fascinating, valuable, and insightful contribution to Jewish literature.
And another good one but, seriously, read the one above...
Jewish Views of the Afterlife
Author: Simcha Paull Raphael
Publisher: Jason Aronson, Friday, March 01, 1996
ISBN: 1568219385
In Jewish Views of the Afterlife, Simcha Paull Raphael guides the reader through 4,000 years of Jewish thought on the afterlife by investigating pertinent sacred texts produced in each era. Through a compilation of ideas found in the Bible, Rabbinic literature, medieval philosophy, Midrash, Kabbalah, and Hasidism, the reader learns how Judaism conceived of the fate of the individual after death throughout Jewish history.
But does an afterlife even exist? What role does it play in Jewish theology? While many affirm a belief in the afterlife, a scarce few are aware of where these teachings can be found in Jewish literature.
Once you read that first one, you can't help but think about the afterlife. I know because I used to believe like you.
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I should add that the Torah does give some examples of ways we could have a glimpse into what the next world is like. It says Torah learning is "Mein Olam Haba" a glimpse of the world to come. And it also says that Shabbos is also compared to the next world in our prayers we say after we eat. Physical suffering is like 1/60 (I beleive) of what we call hell.
(NOTE: not true for gentiles, gentiles are not allowed to keep the sabbath).
They are also not allowed to learn torah or as some call it "the old testement", as Rambam says in Hilchot melachim Perek 10, halacha 9
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Yes, i just realised that because they are commandments and in affect, rules they are directed towards the Jews.
Is the Talmud different from the Torah sent down on the tablets, was it the same thing just orally or more teachings?
Lubab you are the most fantastic religious moderator ever! I have learnt and understood so much from your answers, thank you so much and i hope your knowledge grants you many blessings!
Well, no the Talmud is not different.
It says in the Rabbinic commentaries that every detail of Judaism is included in those 10 commandments. (It even says that all 613 commandments are included in the first two commandments!) Those 10 are the general framework and the 613 give you the details.
All the knowledge of the Talmud was given on Sinai along with those 10 commandments to Moses. That knowledge was not a new thing that started when the Talmud was written down. That knowledge of the details of how to put the Torah into practice was handed down in an oral chain for 40 generations by the greatest Jewish leaders and scholars. Eventually those teachings were written down and that's why we have the written Talmud.
But really it's all only ONE Torah. You can't have the oral Torah without the written and you can't have the written Torah without the oral commentary. It's all the same thing, only differnet parts were handed down to us different ways. There are specifics and generalities, but it's all one Torah.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad to help in any way I can. And "Amein" to that blessing!
Ramban says that all of the mitzvot are in 1 mitzvah. I think they talk about in Masechet megillah daf 19. Also somewhere else in berachot they talk about it.
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Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.
You mean NO vacation?
No day off for a family to go on a picnic?
Rashi in Sanhedrin 58B says that not only is a gentile not allwoed to designate a day, as a day of rest, but he is also not allowed to take a day off of work to relax. Meiri disagrees- he says they are not allowed to designate a day of rest, but can take vacation. Rambam agrees with Meiri. Lubab, do you think that christians are going against this by designating sunday as their day of rest?
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Yes, i just realised that because they are commandments and in affect, rules they are directed towards the Jews.
Is the Talmud different from the Torah sent down on the tablets, was it the same thing just orally or more teachings?
Lubab you are the most fantastic religious moderator ever! I have learnt and understood so much from your answers, thank you so much and i hope your knowledge grants you many blessings!
Well, no the Talmud is not different.
It says in the Rabbinic commentaries that every detail of Judaism is included in those 10 commandments. (It even says that all 613 commandments are included in the first two commandments!) Those 10 are the general framework and the 613 give you the details.
All the knowledge of the Talmud was given on Sinai along with those 10 commandments to Moses. That knowledge was not a new thing that started when the Talmud was written down. That knowledge of the details of how to put the Torah into practice was handed down in an oral chain for 40 generations by the greatest Jewish leaders and scholars. Eventually those teachings were written down and that's why we have the written Talmud.
But really it's all only ONE Torah. You can't have the oral Torah without the written and you can't have the written Torah without the oral commentary. It's all the same thing, only differnet parts were handed down to us different ways. There are specifics and generalities, but it's all one Torah.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad to help in any way I can. And "Amein" to that blessing!
Ramban says that all of the mitzvot are in 1 mitzvah. I think they talk about in Masechet megillah daf 19. Also somewhere else in berachot they talk about it.
Are you talking about something that goes like- " the Tzaddik lives by his faith" - a Prohet said that, I think Habakuk. - BUT thats also something that is used by christians and some who want to get ride of Mitzvot, and say you see one only needs faith. But when reading the statement correctly one will see- it says the TZADDIK lives by his faith, and who is a Tzaddik? one who follows all of the Torah.
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Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.
You mean NO vacation?
No day off for a family to go on a picnic?
With that said, if a gentile want to take a vacation in order so that he will be able to be rested in order to work better then that is fine!
Rashi disagrees with this
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Yes, i just realised that because they are commandments and in affect, rules they are directed towards the Jews.
Is the Talmud different from the Torah sent down on the tablets, was it the same thing just orally or more teachings?
Lubab you are the most fantastic religious moderator ever! I have learnt and understood so much from your answers, thank you so much and i hope your knowledge grants you many blessings!
Well, no the Talmud is not different.
It says in the Rabbinic commentaries that every detail of Judaism is included in those 10 commandments. (It even says that all 613 commandments are included in the first two commandments!) Those 10 are the general framework and the 613 give you the details.
All the knowledge of the Talmud was given on Sinai along with those 10 commandments to Moses. That knowledge was not a new thing that started when the Talmud was written down. That knowledge of the details of how to put the Torah into practice was handed down in an oral chain for 40 generations by the greatest Jewish leaders and scholars. Eventually those teachings were written down and that's why we have the written Talmud.
But really it's all only ONE Torah. You can't have the oral Torah without the written and you can't have the written Torah without the oral commentary. It's all the same thing, only differnet parts were handed down to us different ways. There are specifics and generalities, but it's all one Torah.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm glad to help in any way I can. And "Amein" to that blessing!
Ramban says that all of the mitzvot are in 1 mitzvah. I think they talk about in Masechet megillah daf 19. Also somewhere else in berachot they talk about it.
Are you talking about something that goes like- " the Tzaddik lives by his faith" - a Prohet said that, I think Habakuk. - BUT thats also something that is used by christians and some who want to get ride of Mitzvot, and say you see one only needs faith. But when reading the statement correctly one will see- it says the TZADDIK lives by his faith, and who is a Tzaddik? one who follows all of the Torah.
Nope, ill go get a gemara, I learned this a couple weeks back with my Havruta, gotta refresh my memory.
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Telling goyim that they're not allowed to have a day off from work is a sure way to start another Holocaust. ;)
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Telling goyim that they're not allowed to have a day off from work is a sure way to start another Holocaust. ;)
Goyim can shove their holocausts.
Israel has 200 Nuclear bombs.
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Telling goyim that they're not allowed to have a day off from work is a sure way to start another Holocaust. ;)
Israel has 200 Nuclear bombs.
You think that will save you?
You (we) have no idea of what awaits us all.
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Telling goyim that they're not allowed to have a day off from work is a sure way to start another Holocaust. ;)
Goyim can shove their holocausts.
Israel has 200 Nuclear bombs.
That would be a comforting thought if a real Jewish government was in power. Unfortunately, Israeli politicians are reluctant to fire rifles at Israel's enemies, let alone nukes.
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Telling goyim that they're not allowed to have a day off from work is a sure way to start another Holocaust. ;)
Israel has 200 Nuclear bombs.
You think that will save you?
You (we) have no idea of what awaits us all.
The Fiery Doom that you beleive awaits Am Yisrael is a self-fulfilled prophecy that will only happen if people think as you do.
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The problem is that most of them do, and the goyim are noticing this.
I've wondered why a single IAF F-16 pilot doesn't just put a Maverick right into the Dome of the Rock and then let come what may. <---1st Class Lunatic stuff, here, eh?
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Yes. As far as I understand it, gentiles should work every day.
You mean NO vacation?
No day off for a family to go on a picnic?
With that said, if a gentile want to take a vacation in order so that he will be able to be rested in order to work better then that is fine!
Rashi disagrees with this
That is his opinion. We are free to agree or disagree with him.
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Telling goyim that they're not allowed to have a day off from work is a sure way to start another Holocaust. ;)
You are overreacting. You might piss some people off but that is no reason for a Holocaust.
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The goyim have Holocausted the Jews for far less than a lost day off each week!
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The goyim have Holocausted the Jews for far less than a lost day off each week!
You are referring to non muslim goyim?
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Telling goyim that they're not allowed to have a day off from work is a sure way to start another Holocaust. ;)
Wrong. At the source, the reason why the gentiles hate us is because we don't teach them the parts of the Torah they need to know. I speak to gentiles all the time and are very pleased to have some direction from a Rabbi. Work actually makes people happier despite the common misconception and many self-help books written by gentiles will tell you the same thing.
But in general, gentiles should have their own courts and be instructing themselves on how to fulfill many of the details of how they should live under the Noahide laws.
It is not for the Jew to be telling the gentile what to do all the time, just to get them to accept the 7 laws of Noah and set up their courts and then their own leaders should take care of the rest.
I
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Interesting....
Christians do not believe "whipping" by devils in hell.
This is what we believe about hell:
1. Hell was created by God originally for demons (fallen angels) and not for human beings.
2. Right now there is no official hell but there is a place called sheol or hades. All unrighteous souls will go there after death and get tormented. This is not the final hell but a waiting place for the final judgement. Final hell is the lake of fire which is after the great white throne judgement. There are different degrees of punishment based on the wicked deeds.
3. Hell is not a place of purification. It is an eternal place with ongoing destruction of the lost soul. There is no hope for people who end up in hell. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for ever. All demons will also be sent to hell after the great white throne judegement. Right now they are in the second heaven (between earth's atmosphere and God's dwelling place) working to destroy the human race. However demons (Nephillim - Genesis 6:2) involved in attempting to have sex with human beings are arrested by God and confined in the a dark place.
4. Shoel originally had 2 compartments - a. Paradise & b. Hades. The paradise section existed until the time of Jesus. All Tanak saints went to the Pardise section where there was not torment but they were captivated by satan against their will. Jesus went their after His death and liberated all of them and took them to the actual heaven. Therefore the paradise section which is also called as "Abraham's bosom" or "Father's limbo" is empty. So if a soul is righteous dies after the time of Jesus he/she would go to the actual heaven. It is a place of infinite joy. But they too need to wait for resurrection and to get rewards for their righteous deeds.
5. In the world to come we will be able to retain our memory and identify each other. No reproduction and all righteous souls will be like angels. Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Muslims believe in having sex with perpetual virigins and drinking wine in heaven.)
Regarding salvation,
We believe:
No one can be saved by doing righteous works. Salvation is an inner work of Ruah HaKodesh to regenerate a human spirit. Once that happens an assurance of forgiveness of sins comes. It is also accompanied by joy and peace which cannot be explained by human terms. Ruah HaKodesh gives the ability to us to do righteous deeds by His power. A person needs to have that assurance of salvation in this world if he/she wants to go to heaven after death.
Note: I can only speak for the Christian belief system. I am not interested in judging people belonging to other religions. It is upto the individual and God. Also our Bible also makes it clear that by becoming a Christian itself cannot take someone to heaven!!!
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
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If people are supposed to work continuously to make a better world and cannot take any time for themselves....then for whom is the world????? Who can enjoy the world then???????
BTW, Since Shabat rules are so strict, and Jews cannot do many things they like (travelling, using a PC to chat, and so on), are they allowed to take a vacation for them on another day, besides the Shabat?
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If people are supposed to work continuously to make a better world and cannot take any time for themselves....then for whom is the world????? Who can enjoy the world then???????
BTW, Since Shabat rules are so strict, and Jews cannot do many things they like (travelling, using a PC to chat, and so on), are they allowed to take a vacation for them on another day, besides the Shabat?
The question is, what defines a "vacation"?
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If people are supposed to work continuously to make a better world and cannot take any time for themselves....then for whom is the world????? Who can enjoy the world then???????
BTW, Since Shabat rules are so strict, and Jews cannot do many things they like (travelling, using a PC to chat, and so on), are they allowed to take a vacation for them on another day, besides the Shabat?
The question is, what defines a "vacation"?
For example, Jews who have shops in Buenos Aires, close for Shabat for religious reasons, but also close on Sundays and National Holidays, and take the day off to rest. They may do some work at home, of course. But also practise sports, sightseeing, and so on. Since in modern tmes, this activities involve electricity light, using a car......and they cannot do it on a Shabat.
Regarding Gentiles, if we are supposed to work everyday, then we wouldn't be able to go to a football match, no tourism, no enjoyment..... if being Noahide forbids all sort of rest for us, I doubt even one here would accep it!
But I strongly disagree with the idea that Jew's teaching Gentiles must not rest will bring a Holocaust or increase anti-Semitism. Many cults teach that Mankind is morally forbidden to do many things and noone hates them. Pentecostals here teach that all Mankind is forbidden to listen to secular music, and they haven't ever been attacked for that. Most people simply don't believe in them. And the same would happen to Jews and Noahides, if they say rest is forbidden to Goyim, people won't hate them for that ( esxcept those who are already anti-Semite), but nearly all Goyim won't accept that idea, and will continue to have vacations, plus the fact that they will probably reject also other Noahide commandments