JTF.ORG Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ChabadKahanist on September 09, 2021, 09:28:22 AM

Title: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: ChabadKahanist on September 09, 2021, 09:28:22 AM
https://www.bitchute.com/video/iaLlZN0q8rjk/
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on September 09, 2021, 09:45:48 AM
Dr. Schulman was right. We can stop pretending he wasn't.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: ChabadKahanist on September 09, 2021, 10:05:03 AM
Dr. Schulman was right. We can stop pretending he wasn't.
What did he say?
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on September 09, 2021, 10:13:41 AM
What did he say?

He said the injections are known to cause a risk. 
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: ChabadKahanist on September 09, 2021, 10:24:57 AM
He said the injections are known to cause a risk.
Dr Zelenko is saying the same thing
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 09, 2021, 01:16:02 PM
Dr Zelenko is saying the same thing

Zelenko = a clown

I never heard of schulman.  If he's saying the vaccine is killing people and that covid isn't, then he'll be just another clown
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on September 09, 2021, 01:26:45 PM
Zelenko = a clown

I never heard of schulman.  If he's saying the vaccine is killing people and that covid isn't, then he'll be just another clown

You heard about him. He's the "clown" who edited the shulhan aruh for Gentiles: https://asknoah.org/books/the-divine-code

I thought Jews were commanded to honor those who teach and know Torah?
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 09, 2021, 01:28:08 PM
https://www.bitchute.com/video/iaLlZN0q8rjk/

Please do better at logic.  Zelenko obviously can't.  Most propagandists fail in this area.

He starts with an irrelevant factoid:  There's a delta outbreak even though people got vaccinated
Then he asserts that you don't need vaccines because you can treat with Zelenko's snail oil (proven in multiple trials to do absolutely nothing for covid patients).

If this snake oil was a real cure and you could just treat and save everyone with it, why would it matter that there is a delta outbreak?????????????

The existence of treatments are irrelevant to the question of whether vaccination is necessary or wise.
This is especially true in the case of fake treatments that he peddles. 
But even proven effective treatments like antibody infusions do not negate the need for vaccinations.  It's a false logic spread by a false person, pumping himself and his ideas (And nowadays, his own supplement that he sells that is supposed to substitute for a vaccine!  SCAM ARTIST). 
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 09, 2021, 01:30:27 PM
You heard about him. He's the "clown" who edited the shulhan aruh for Gentiles: https://asknoah.org/books/the-divine-code

I thought Jews were commanded to honor those who teach and know Torah?

No, I never heard of him before.
Did you see the first part of my sentence?    There was an if there.
If he's publicly saying ridiculous things like Zelenko does, which misleads people about their health, then no, I am under no obligation to honor him.   If...
As I said, I'm not familiar with whatever he says. 

Didn't you do this same thing with a certain rabbi?  It's like you worship titles or something.  I do not have to agree with someone or praise them if they say things that contradict Judaism, common sense, halacha, etc, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR TITLE IS 
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on September 09, 2021, 01:39:39 PM
No, I never heard of him before.
Did you see the first part of my sentence?    There was an if there.
If he's publicly saying ridiculous things like Zelenko does, which misleads people about their health, then no, I am under no obligation to honor him.   If...
As I said, I'm not familiar with whatever he says. 

Didn't you do this same thing with a certain rabbi?  It's like you worship titles or something.  I do not have to agree with someone or praise them if they say things that contradict Judaism, common sense, halacha, etc, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR TITLE IS

I mentioned Dr. Schulman on this forum numerous times, including to you directly. It seems you forgot about him while pretending he is not one of the greatest Torah scholars on the planet. 
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Dovid_2 on September 09, 2021, 05:12:06 PM
Zelenko is in fact a snakeoil salesman, and in the words of the great Don Rickles, I am getting "fed up with him".
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on September 09, 2021, 11:52:09 PM
Zelenko is in fact a snakeoil salesman, and in the words of the great Don Rickles, I am getting "fed up with him".

This is the kind of attitude that drove away Israel Chai.

In this thread, Zelenko has been called a clown, a false person, a scam artist and a snakeoil salesman. Ironically, the Rabbi we all are supposed to be following said defamation is the last refuge of non thinkers. 

Also, I'm sure the Arab Nazis in Israel care if they kill vaccinated or unvaccinated Jews.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 09, 2021, 11:56:43 PM
I mentioned Dr. Schulman on this forum numerous times, including to you directly. It seems you forgot about him while pretending he is not one of the greatest Torah scholars on the planet.

I must have forgotten those interactions.  Even so, he could be the greatest Torah scholar in the world and still have terrible medical advice that shouldn't be listened to.

Being considered a great Torah scholar does not necessarily give someone valid opinions on all things. Rabbi Kahane was right about zionism, politics, what Israel should do, what Israeli citizens should do, etc.  Many MANY great Torah scholars were wrong and are still wrong about those things.   That's life. 
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on September 10, 2021, 12:36:43 AM
Rabbi Kahane was right about zionism, politics, what Israel should do, what Israeli citizens should do, etc.  Many MANY great Torah scholars were wrong and are still wrong about those things.   That's life.

That's a false equivalence. Rabbi Kahane spoke about issues that have clear instructions in the Torah. No such instructions exist in regard to taking this specific injection.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 10, 2021, 05:33:46 AM
That's a false equivalence. Rabbi Kahane spoke about issues that have clear instructions in the Torah. No such instructions exist in regard to taking this specific injection.

Which is exactly why citing this individual's Torah knowledge is completely irrelevant to the question!   If his analysis is bad, his analysis is bad.  It doesn't matter what Torah he knows.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on September 10, 2021, 06:06:58 AM
Which is exactly why citing this individual's Torah knowledge is completely irrelevant to the question!   If his analysis is bad, his analysis is bad.  It doesn't matter what Torah he knows.

His opinion is backed by a board certified family physician, who has official permission to heal according to Aruh Ha'Shulhan Yoreh De'ah ch. 336. Now what?
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on September 10, 2021, 01:23:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r-ROdqgg2c&t=99s
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on September 10, 2021, 01:25:17 PM
Vaccination Coercion and Living in the Land of Israel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzDbsc1uf5o
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 10, 2021, 03:59:01 PM
This is the kind of attitude that drove away Israel Chai.

Attitude drove him away?

Um no.  He repeatedly spammed antivax nonsense here and was told repeatedly to stop by Chaim, and he blatantly disregarded it. 

Then he crossed the line by insulting my mother, and Chaim demanded him to apologize, and he refused to apologize and instead said "bye" and then left.

Cool revisionist history though.

Quote
In this thread, Zelenko has been called a clown, a false person, a scam artist and a snakeoil salesman. Ironically, the Rabbi we all are supposed to be following said defamation is the last refuge of non thinkers. 

I call him that for all the false information he has spread publicly.  He chose to make himself a Covid persona.  And now he spreads medical misinformation.  It is important to dispute what he says and call him out for the harm he is causing.
I have the same language for any Covid Charlatan, whether they have the title "Orthodox Rabbi" or not.

When he is cited here as an argument from authority, it is not defamation to reply that he has no authority to opine on such matters. 
If you want me to refute specific claims of his, I can, but after a while I get tired of doing this over and over again.  At some point I don't have to keep proving how "The Reform movement is not real Judaism" at some point we accept that conclusion and call it for what it is.  That isn't defamation because it's based on actual information and facts.

Posting a 30-minute video interview of him and not making any substantive claim is an argument from authority and an assertion here (in a propagandizing manner) that you uphold this individual as an authority on the subject.  It is a commensurate response to assert otherwise.  Not defamation.

Quote
Also, I'm sure the Arab Nazis in Israel care if they kill vaccinated or unvaccinated Jews.

LOL like this is relevant?  No one is saying to get vaccinated to impress Arabs.  That doesn't even make sense.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on September 10, 2021, 05:56:27 PM
When he is cited here as an argument from authority, it is not defamation to reply that he has no authority to opine on such matters. 

You ignored my previous reply where I cited Aruh Ha'Shulhan Yoreh De'ah ch. 336 that a board certified family physician like Zelenko does in fact have the authority to opine on such matters in the eyes of Torah Law.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Zelhar on September 11, 2021, 06:06:52 PM
Dr Zelenko is a midget and science, giant in conspiracy profiteering.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on September 11, 2021, 10:44:07 PM
Why are some health care workers quitting then getting this shot?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/09/11/vax-mandate-quits-force-ny-upstate-hospital-to-pause-deliveries/amp/
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on September 11, 2021, 10:48:08 PM
Also some of you fools out there really believe that the government and pharmaceuticals have your best interests at heart?
 Yesterday it was making $$$$ off wars today's its through these shots and having society all scared of everything and everyone. They made this Plandemic to begin with. Never forget never forgive. And now these same a$$holes - Fuchi being the head of them are telling us what to do and how to live our lives.
 The real tragedy and what's scary  is the totalitarianism that all you fools keep accepting in the name of "safety"
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Dovid_2 on September 12, 2021, 12:09:25 AM
This is the kind of attitude that drove away Israel Chai.

In this thread, Zelenko has been called a clown, a false person, a scam artist and a snakeoil salesman. Ironically, the Rabbi we all are supposed to be following said defamation is the last refuge of non thinkers. 

Also, I'm sure the Arab Nazis in Israel care if they kill vaccinated or unvaccinated Jews.
This is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.  The consensus is that the virus becomes weaker and weaker with each successive generation, not to mention that we have mass immunity now.  So this is not a question of life and death.  I have had two Pfizer shots, by the way.

So the question now becomes one of prophylaxis.

I like you, I think you are well-intentioned, but it's a bit presumptuous to pick fights with other people because you feel strongly about a type of prophylaxis...  Prophylaxis I might add that involves either medication for malaria (hydroxychloroquine), or medication that's used to treat scabies and that's given to horses to combat insect bites (ivermectin).

Also, I don't like the fact that hydroxychloroquine is becoming so widely available in Jewish communities, when it is a very dangerous drug that people routinely use to commit suicide.

The people who are behind the mass advertising in Jewish periodicals and in social media are confidence men (read: con men), plain and simple.  Their motivation is financial, and those who repeat their false claim are nothing more than useful idiots, no offence.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 12, 2021, 02:41:36 AM
You ignored my previous reply where I cited Aruh Ha'Shulhan Yoreh De'ah ch. 336 that a board certified family physician like Zelenko does in fact have the authority to opine on such matters in the eyes of Torah Law.

Oh you're a Torah scholar now?   
Him being a board certified family physician does not make anything he says true!

He is certainly NOT an infectious diseases specialist.   
That wouldn't make what he says true, either, but at least it would signify that he has some kind of expertise in the subject matter.   Unfortunately for you, even in that case, his comments would still be subject to scrutiny.  The halacha does not make any individual's public claims immune from critique, even if they are a doctor, or even in a different situation if they are a specialist doctor in the relevant field (Which he is NOT)
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 12, 2021, 02:42:31 AM
Why are some health care workers quitting then getting this shot?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/09/11/vax-mandate-quits-force-ny-upstate-hospital-to-pause-deliveries/amp/

Because they're antivaxers and low IQ.   They don't belong in healthcare where they'd be putting their vulnerable patients at risk, so when they quit everyone wins.  Good luck to them in new fields.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 12, 2021, 02:44:27 AM
Also some of you fools out there really believe that the government and pharmaceuticals have your best interests at heart?
 Yesterday it was making $$$$ off wars today's its through these shots and having society all scared of everything and everyone. They made this Plandemic to begin with. Never forget never forgive. And now these same a$$holes - Fuchi being the head of them are telling us what to do and how to live our lives.
 The real tragedy and what's scary  is the totalitarianism that all you fools keep accepting in the name of "safety"

No one has to trust the government or the pharmaceutical company's intentions.  The decision can made from data and data alone.  That's the beauty of medical science.  We don't have to divine the morality and intentions of human beings.  We can simply look at the data and see, what did this treatment, or this vaccine, do for the people in the trial compared to placebo?   

In this case, that's an easy question to answer.   All your conspiracy talk is completely irrelevant.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on September 12, 2021, 06:33:19 AM
Oh you're a Torah scholar now?   
Him being a board certified family physician does not make anything he says true!

I am. I received an official certificate of achievement from Rabbi Dr. Michael Schulman in 2016 certifying my Torah knowledge.

According to the limited instructions the Torah gives on situations like these, Zelenko does have the authority to share his opinion and should be taken seriously. I don't care what you do with that information. 
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on September 12, 2021, 02:08:18 PM
No one has to trust the government or the pharmaceutical company's intentions.  The decision can made from data and data alone.  That's the beauty of medical science.  We don't have to divine the morality and intentions of human beings.  We can simply look at the data and see, what did this treatment, or this vaccine, do for the people in the trial compared to placebo?   

In this case, that's an easy question to answer.   All your conspiracy talk is completely irrelevant.

 What "data"? What's the % of people who died FROM Covid? What's the % of kids that died from Covid? Especially vs the flu?
 What's the %'s of those who actually had Covid that got it a second time and died? (actually had it and not just a tiny tiny amount that didn't absorb into the body)
 Show me real statistics and numbers.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 12, 2021, 05:25:55 PM
I am. I received an official certificate of achievement from Rabbi Dr. Michael Schulman in 2016 certifying my Torah knowledge.

Relevant to this discussion how?
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 12, 2021, 05:29:36 PM
Anyone can share opinions.  That does not make the opinion worthwhile.

You say u don't care, but u cared very much when I dismissed his badly misinformed &dishonest opinions.

I think you badly misunderstand the word "Authority"
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 12, 2021, 05:31:42 PM
Quote from: Tag-MehirTzedek
What "data"?

This entire post of yours is not about vaccines. You're disputing that Covid is real. Obviously if there was no such disease vaccination would be pointless.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 12, 2021, 05:34:33 PM
But if there is no such disease as Covid, why do the vaccinations prevent hospitalizations with this disease?
It is pointless to argue with covid denialists such as yourself.  Pure stupidity. You've been brainwashed by alternative media.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on September 12, 2021, 07:58:12 PM
Where did  I deny Covid? I had it.

https://youtu.be/3O_7O9_nV10
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 12, 2021, 08:59:20 PM
The fact that this subject is even being debated here is an embarrassment to our forum. Although they are only a small minority of the adult population in Israel, the unvaccinated are the vast majority of covid hospitalizations and deaths. It's the unvaccinated who are keeping this pandemic alive.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Chaim Ben Pesach on September 13, 2021, 04:36:10 AM
בס''ד

Unvaccinated people were 11 times more likely to die of covid-19, CDC report finds:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/10/moderna-most-effective-covid-vaccine-studies/?itid=hp_pandemic
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on September 13, 2021, 07:05:39 AM
That still doesn't mean that children and those who had Covid must get vaccinated. It's Risk-Benefit. If you want to get vaccine that your choice. If you don't then it should be your choice as well.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on September 13, 2021, 07:06:49 AM
 The bigger problem is the totalitarianism going on. Why should they stop us from going to work, from going to gym or restaurants. Also look at the children that are made to wear masks. And the mental health probe the government is causing people.
Title: Re: A DOCTOR'S GRAVE WARNING FOR ISRAEL (Any thoughts?)
Post by: Tag-MehirTzedek on September 13, 2021, 07:23:53 AM

 You can't have the "solution" bring more problems then the disease itself.
  Seeing everything going on, putting things together we see that it's more about power and big $$$$ instead of public safety.