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General Category => Ask Posters Show Threads => Topic started by: Madmarv on July 30, 2009, 09:10:42 PM

Title: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 30, 2009, 09:10:42 PM
I'll start.

Does the veil (the one with the black and white colors) have anything to do with islam or extremism?

- Considering seeing most of the extremists and muslims wearing those, I believe there is a big misconception regarding those cute warmy veils. They are just part of the arabic tradition, nothing more, nothing less. Its like being an american and wearing the cowboy hat, or being scottish and wearing the tall green hat or playing the sax. I urge everyone not to link those to any of the violent actions done by muslims today, its an insult to the arabic beautiful and ancient culture, and its not fair. Muslims today have done so much to ruin the images of every inch of the arabic culture, the same as they are doing with media against Israel and the jews.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: CorrieDeservedIt on July 30, 2009, 09:14:07 PM
um so basically you're saying that Islam hijacked arab culture?


Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: ProudAndZionist on July 30, 2009, 09:17:30 PM
 Why the arabs are burning cars and raping women in Europe?
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 30, 2009, 10:34:58 PM
um so basically you're saying that Islam hijacked arab culture?


No, they haven't hijacked it, they just ruined its image. Islam, all over the world, are the same. We only see the arabic islam image because its the majority, you don't see for example the muslim british image because its a very small group, but they all have the same values.. have the same religious teaching.. and also the language arabic was doomed to be the language of the koran. But the arabic language was there before Islam. Islam just adopted the arabic language, and the traditions, and everything, and they simply altered it for their own convenient.
I'm a christian arab. I dance arabic.. listen to arabic music (although I prefer western music such as rock, jazz, blues, but still..), eat arabic food, speak arabic, my family have arabic tradition (not me so much though..), we have the veil too, and we so far away from islam as much as you if not even more.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 30, 2009, 10:36:16 PM
Why the arabs are burning cars and raping women in Europe?

Muslims, not arabs... the iffing muzzies... the christian arabs are busy progressing the country wherever it is, I can assure you this.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: ProudAndZionist on July 30, 2009, 10:50:15 PM
Why the arabs are burning cars and raping women in Europe?

Muslims, not arabs... the iffing muzzies... the christian arabs are busy progressing the country wherever it is, I can assure you this.

Are the Christian Arabs pro-Israel? On the YouTube I met a few Christian Arabs who were same with the muslims...
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: ProudAndZionist on July 30, 2009, 10:50:52 PM
Are you Catholic?
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 30, 2009, 11:08:41 PM
I'm actually a protestant, but I support the rome orthodox church in our village more. So, I think I rather call myself an orthodox.

About the christians you met on the net, well, I can assure you 100% that they don't know what Islam is or what lies in their book. And they don't know anything about anything. They just, see muslims as arabs like them, and the whole israel-palestine conflict as arabs against jews, they certainly don't know much about the history of this country, if you ask them all, they would say they prefer to live under ANY government, be it jewish or christian, but not under islamic ruling because they know they're - that bad.
They are like ... we hate islam, but we hate them because they're so dirty most of the time, they are perverts and very closed minded at the same time, if we have our girls with us, they will leave everything they're doing and come check their arses. They know this. But in the other hand, the mixture and mingling with muslims made them feel the same and sympathize with each other, not to mention having the same language (trust me ... the language alone is enough to make 2 sides feel they are one), so they kinda tend to lean to muslims side. But those are the ignorant ones, and they are so vulnerable for the reasons I mentioned above. Did you think I was born hating Islam and supporting the jews in this conflict? ... it took me time and a lot of reading and watching and etc etc ... but I had the mind and the courage to look at other people's points of views, and decides which one really fits to me. That's how everything gets changed to the better.

If you take Islam for example, they teach their scholars NEVER to question the koran, never to question their teachers, NEVER ever consider looking at other religious point of view, if they do, they will get punished severely.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on July 31, 2009, 05:49:59 AM
מה נשמע, אתה יודע שיש לנו גם פורום עברי ?

I don't think the muslims ruined the Arab culture, Islam is the Arab culture. The pre-Islamic pagan Arabs were pretty much the same savages we know today as evident by the Quran- blood feuds, infanticide, robbery, fornication- that sums up pre Islamic Arabs. Yes there were different Arab tribes who were peaceful traders like, and there were Jewish tribes and Christian tribes. But they were annihilated when Muhammad took over the peninsula.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 31, 2009, 06:31:10 AM
מה נשמע, אתה יודע שיש לנו גם פורום עברי ?

I don't think the muslims ruined the Arab culture, Islam is the Arab culture. The pre-Islamic pagan Arabs were pretty much the same savages we know today as evident by the Quran- blood feuds, infanticide, robbery, fornication- that sums up pre Islamic Arabs. Yes there were different Arab tribes who were peaceful traders like, and there were Jewish tribes and Christian tribes. But they were annihilated when Muhammad took over the peninsula.

True. But bear in mind that in these ages (before Islam came, and moreover after), every tribe was a savage in some way... we can't conclude that only the arabs were this and that ..... it was the age of the sword, the age of ignorance, there was no governmental laws, there was no institutions no police nothing, violence was easy to achieve.
Lets also remember that "arab" is not an ideology, it only describes a people in a very specific ways and methods, such as language, food, music, traditions. It does not have any mentality or ideologies such as in religion. There can be good arabs, and there can be corrupted ones. Just like in every other society.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on July 31, 2009, 06:55:18 AM
I agree with you in theory but in practice, there are hardly any good righteous Arabs, that are culturally Arabs. Sure there are ethnic Arabs like Bridgit Gabriel, Nonie Darwish, Josef Farah, and Waffa Sultan. But they all live in America, they probably think in English, and live like westerners, and they don't practice Islam.  Show me one decent Bedouin Arab, a real noble one.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Hyades on July 31, 2009, 07:21:34 AM
What do most Christian Arabs think about Hamas, Fatah, Hizbullah and Iran?
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 31, 2009, 10:29:46 AM
I agree with you in theory but in practice, there are hardly any good righteous Arabs, that are culturally Arabs. Sure there are ethnic Arabs like Bridgit Gabriel, Nonie Darwish, Josef Farah, and Waffa Sultan. But they all live in America, they probably think in English, and live like westerners, and they don't practice Islam.  Show me one decent Bedouin Arab, a real noble one.

On that basis, why don't you show me one Bedouin Arab, that is not muslim!?
The bad arabs are usually muslims... and arab muslims are the same as british muslims or american muslims... they all have the same ideologies and ideas. Its just, as I said before, the majority of muslims are among the arabs, that's why it feels that the arabs are the enemy, not Islam.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 31, 2009, 10:31:12 AM
What do most Christian Arabs think about Hamas, Fatah, Hizbullah and Iran?

The same as you do, and as we all do. But some of them haven't yet realized that because they simply have no knowledge of either history or religion of islam, palestine and israel.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on July 31, 2009, 10:33:12 AM
Is your Hebrew as good as your English ?
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 31, 2009, 10:37:03 AM
Is your Hebrew as good as your English ?

My english is a little bit better than my hebrew :) and my arabic is a little bit better than my english :D
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: mord on July 31, 2009, 10:46:37 AM
Quote
Does the veil (the one with the black and white colors) have anything to do with islam or extremism?
  People might think you mean the veil women wear you mean the keffiyah ?
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 31, 2009, 10:54:38 AM
Quote
Does the veil (the one with the black and white colors) have anything to do with islam or extremism?
  People might think you mean the veil women wear you mean the keffiyah ?

no not the hijab, and dunno if its keffiyah, but u can see a lot of arabs wearing those around their nicks.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: HiWarp on July 31, 2009, 11:06:44 AM
What is your opinion of the song Ahab the Arab?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLB15kBvn_c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLB15kBvn_c)
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 31, 2009, 11:29:09 AM
What is your opinion of the song Ahab the Arab?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLB15kBvn_c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLB15kBvn_c)

Its funny :P
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: ProudAndZionist on July 31, 2009, 01:44:03 PM
1. Do you know Meir Kahane's views?

2. Lebanese, Lybian, "Palestinian" people understand each other? Or they different arabic languages?
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 31, 2009, 02:00:35 PM
1. Do you know Meir Kahane's views?

2. Lebanese, Lybian, "Palestinian" people understand each other? Or they different arabic languages?


1. No

2. Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Palestinians, Syria and many more arabian countries, understand each other but have different accents, like U.S.A and U.K, but they do understand each other pretty well.
But, Saudia Arabia have a very different accent that even arabs here don't understand on them. Don't know if Sodan speaks arabic, if so, then they have also a weird accent. Hmm... Tunisia, Kuwait, and these countries are also the same.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: ProudAndZionist on July 31, 2009, 02:07:11 PM
Do you live in Israel right? You are palestinian or arab? Or both?
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 31, 2009, 03:07:20 PM
Do you live in Israel right? You are palestinian or arab? Or both?

If you are trying to trick me there, then I'm israeli now, before 48 I'm used to be called palestinian. I'm an arab christian.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: ProudAndZionist on July 31, 2009, 03:12:41 PM
Do you live in Israel right? You are palestinian or arab? Or both?

If you are trying to trick me there, then I'm israeli now, before 48 I'm used to be called palestinian. I'm an arab christian.

Not trick...really. A very important person in my life told me that Arab Christians are different from the muslim arabs. And that I should be not angry with you...I listened to her words. BTW because not only palestinains live in Israel.

How old are you btw?  :o
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on July 31, 2009, 03:24:09 PM
Do you live in Israel right? You are palestinian or arab? Or both?

If you are trying to trick me there, then I'm israeli now, before 48 I'm used to be called palestinian. I'm an arab christian.

Not trick...really. A very important person in my life told me that Arab Christians are different from the muslim arabs. And that I should be not angry with you...I listened to her words. BTW because not only palestinains live in Israel.

How old are you btw?  :o

This person is so right. The only good muslims you could find out there, are the atheists. (you know, the ones that don't believe in religion, atleast not in theirs).
I'm 23, in november I will be 24.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Historical Truth on August 01, 2009, 09:16:11 PM
Do you live in Israel right? You are palestinian or arab? Or both?

If you are trying to trick me there, then I'm israeli now, before 48 I'm used to be called palestinian. I'm an arab christian.

Not trick...really. A very important person in my life told me that Arab Christians are different from the muslim arabs. And that I should be not angry with you...I listened to her words. BTW because not only palestinains live in Israel.

How old are you btw?  :o

This person is so right. The only good muslims you could find out there, are the atheists. (you know, the ones that don't believe in religion, atleast not in theirs).
I'm 23, in november I will be 24.
Ha! You are only a months older than me then.   What is your stand on the following: 1) Homosexuality 2) Evolution 3) Aborotion
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on August 02, 2009, 12:05:33 AM
Ha! You are only a months older than me then.   What is your stand on the following: 1) Homosexuality 2) Evolution 3) Aborotion

Hey.
1) Homosexuality: I believe its a sickness, I don't believe people get born like this, but I don't hate them, I'm not homophobic, I understand them, I don't mind it. I treat them like normal people.

2) Evolution: its a little bit complicated, I'm 60% sure of it. In one hand, it seems like an acceptable theory, in the other hand, some scientific experiments showed that the DNA cell cannot change to produce something "healthy", it can only mutate. Which means, if the DNA change (the evolution theory) it will produce an illness. Like an abnormal leg or hand, Dawn syndrome, an eye is missing, you get the idea ... its a mutation after all, something random. Imagine billion of genes, randomized, or even a small portion of them, it cannot change an ape to a human. But ... I don't think this experiment is 100% true.
but many people believe in evolution and religion as two separate things. However, they are not. Believing in evolution does not deny the existence of a creator. God can create "something", and this "something" can become something else. That's evolution.

3) I'm not against it. There are too too many human beings on earth afterall ;D /grins
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Spectator on August 02, 2009, 02:21:18 AM
What do you think of Druzes?
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: ~Hanna~ on August 02, 2009, 03:10:33 AM
I have a question,

Why are you not against abortion?

God loves all the little children of the world...
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on August 02, 2009, 04:22:41 AM
What do you think of Druzes?

I don't know them much to judge them, their religion is a mystery to everyone. But what I know for sure is that they are a very hard minded people. If they know, for example, a druze girl is going out with a christian girl, they kill them both. (kill as dead, or just beat the hell out of them).
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on August 02, 2009, 04:26:20 AM
I have a question,

Why are you not against abortion?

G-d loves all the little children of the world...

A 18 years old girl could get raped and get pregnant. She doesn't want a child from this man, she doesn't even want a child at all, she got humiliated, got her virginity ripped away from her, I believe its her decision to make, when and which child she want to grow in her. That's one of so many reasons why I support abortion. Abortion is not killing. If you condemn abortion is killing or not righteous, then what about all the sperm wasted when men masturbate? its the same. only abortion could happen a bit later.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: TruthSpreader on August 02, 2009, 10:30:02 AM
What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?

Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on August 02, 2009, 01:12:08 PM
What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?



I don't know about the maronite christians living in and outside lebanon, but my grandpraents from my mother's side are maronite christians and they are living here in israel, nothing so special about them regarding the current situation of israel-palestine. You can say they are pretty neutral.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on August 02, 2009, 01:33:49 PM
Do you vote for the Knesset, to whom ?
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on August 02, 2009, 01:54:30 PM
Do you vote for the Knesset, to whom ?

Unfortunately, I wasn't politically active in the past, my views were so different back then, usually I used to vote just like my father and the rest of the family.
I don't know much about our parties in the kenesset so far, I acknowledge this as a bad thing, so I will have to work and research more about every one of them, when I do, I'll let you know. :)
Meanwhile, why don't you give me your opinion or the most common opinion in your (or this) community about the kenesset and which party would you vote to and which president. However, it have to be something not extremely right, and not extremely left. For example, I won't support a party that says "kick all arabs from the country..." I don't wanna get kicked out of my home that my grand grandparent lived here, however I will do my best to support and progress this country and its quality of life.
And I won't accept a party that sympathize with arabs too much as well, like, I wont also support a party that supports giving in to arabs from inside or outside israel (be it from gaza or anywhere else), or for that matter, sympathize a lot toward immigration into israel with no good reason. Well I hope you got the idea. If you got a good place to start my research with, I'd be appreciated. If not, google is my best friend. :)
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on August 02, 2009, 04:17:10 PM
Do you vote for the Knesset, to whom ?

Unfortunately, I wasn't politically active in the past, my views were so different back then, usually I used to vote just like my father and the rest of the family.
I don't know much about our parties in the kenesset so far, I acknowledge this as a bad thing, so I will have to work and research more about every one of them, when I do, I'll let you know. :)
Meanwhile, why don't you give me your opinion or the most common opinion in your (or this) community about the kenesset and which party would you vote to and which president. However, it have to be something not extremely right, and not extremely left. For example, I won't support a party that says "kick all arabs from the country..." I don't wanna get kicked out of my home that my grand grandparent lived here, however I will do my best to support and progress this country and its quality of life.
And I won't accept a party that sympathize with arabs too much as well, like, I wont also support a party that supports giving in to arabs from inside or outside israel (be it from gaza or anywhere else), or for that matter, sympathize a lot toward immigration into israel with no good reason. Well I hope you got the idea. If you got a good place to start my research with, I'd be appreciated. If not, google is my best friend. :)
There is only one party in the Knesset who merits voting for, האיחוד הלאומי. Any other Party is willing to pursue further with suicidal policies such as retreats, expulsion of Jewish settlers, no proper retaliation for fear of being accused of war crimes etc.

While I think you as a minority have the right to be represented in the Knesset, it is questionable whether you should get a say on key matters such as immigration rights to Israel, giving up land, war, peace etc. In my opinion gentiles citizens in Israel should avoid such matters. For this reason I also think they should have the option not to serve in the Army.

But as the situation is right now, I think 85% of the gentiles, namely the muslims, don't belong at all to Israel since they oppose its very existence. Them- I want to leave and I prefer it would be done with their cooperation but if they do not, well, tough luck.

So who should you vote for ? In my opinion, as it is now, your choice is as limited as mine-  either to the NU not vote at all.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on August 02, 2009, 06:56:12 PM
Hmm, I see...
But I might disagree with you on this matter:
"While I think you as a minority have the right to be represented in the Knesset, it is questionable whether you should get a say on key matters such as immigration rights to Israel, giving up land, war, peace etc. In my opinion gentiles citizens in Israel should avoid such matters. For this reason I also think they should have the option not to serve in the Army."

The minorities of every country, is still part of the country. excluding them out in some governmental issues is not fair, and they should serv the army normally. Ofcourse, I'm not talking about a minority like we have here in israel, where they don't even recognize its very existence. But any other minority, be it racial minority, religious minority, you name it.
If that minority played by the rules (unlike the little minority you mentioned above of mostly muslims) then there is no reason to ignore them in government.

Imo, we should start doing something for that little stubborn minority of muslims that are against us in everything, living among our homes, preaching hatred against us and putting fear into our hearts, we should try fixing this issue first before we even think of bringing the arab minority on par with the israelian government. I hope this day would be soon, I wanna leave a safe place for generations to come after.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on August 03, 2009, 07:10:06 AM
I think we should use some common sense. Do you think you should be part of making a decision on matter s.a if Jews from the exile should be able to immigrate to Israel or not ? And when it comes to matters of natural security, I think you might have a conflict of interest. May be you have family and social ties to Lebanon ? In case a gentile has conflicting interests he must not involve himself in a decision on matters of national security.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Hyades on August 04, 2009, 11:05:41 AM
What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?



I've been living in Sao Paulo for 2 years. And I can tell you Maronites are very anti-Israeli! Sao Paulo has the biggest Maronite community outside the Middle East and about 4 million people there are of Arab descent. They are not anti-Semitic at all, but very anti-Israel!
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: The One and Only Mo on August 04, 2009, 01:24:16 PM
What's with all the b.o.?
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on August 04, 2009, 01:52:02 PM
What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?



I've been living in Sao Paulo for 2 years. And I can tell you Maronites are very anti-Israeli! Sao Paulo has the biggest Maronite community outside the Middle East and about 4 million people there are of Arab descent. They are not anti-Semitic at all, but very anti-Israel!

But, isn't most of the world are anti-israel? because of all the media propaganda in islam's favor, most of the world believe muslims and palestinians are the victims while we're the predators. imo its unfair starting to point fingers on arab christians, overlooking the fact that most of the world are like that. arab christians are the most confused people on the earth. Arab christians that are pro-israel should get a medal, because its like going through hell trying to figure out the truth. They are arabs... living among muslims... watching muslim tvs, propagandas... they were tought about palestine, and never about israel.. if anything, they are the most misleaded people on the face of earth. Its very normal to find them against israel, in my case, I'm a VERY, very different case that you won't find in many places here or outside israel. However, most christians (if not all) are aware of the threat of islam. If they are against israel, they are DIFFENETLY against islam as well. They are just misleaded and lost thats all.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on August 04, 2009, 02:40:11 PM
What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?



I've been living in Sao Paulo for 2 years. And I can tell you Maronites are very anti-Israeli! Sao Paulo has the biggest Maronite community outside the Middle East and about 4 million people there are of Arab descent. They are not anti-Semitic at all, but very anti-Israel!

Being anti Israel is inclusive in being anti Jewish.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Hyades on August 04, 2009, 03:39:13 PM
What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?



I've been living in Sao Paulo for 2 years. And I can tell you Maronites are very anti-Israeli! Sao Paulo has the biggest Maronite community outside the Middle East and about 4 million people there are of Arab descent. They are not anti-Semitic at all, but very anti-Israel!


Being anti Israel is inclusive in being anti Jewish.
No, it is not. Many people see their national Jewish communities as part of their population and Israel as another country with another government. For many people there is a huge difference between being Jewish and being Israeli citizen!
And brazilians are quite pro-Zionist also and very pro-Israel, except the millions of Arabs (who themselves are not very beloved in Brazil as they have a bad reputation). But these Arabs see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and thus as a compatriot, while Israelis for them are Jews living in a country where they don't belong, which they have "stolen". And I think this is the same with many Christian Arabs. They have nothing against Jews as long as they live outside Israel. While Muslims think Jews have NO place in this entire world and have to be wiped out. I find both views very irritating and they make me angry!  >:(
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on August 04, 2009, 03:46:20 PM
What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?



I've been living in Sao Paulo for 2 years. And I can tell you Maronites are very anti-Israeli! Sao Paulo has the biggest Maronite community outside the Middle East and about 4 million people there are of Arab descent. They are not anti-Semitic at all, but very anti-Israel!


Being anti Israel is inclusive in being anti Jewish.
No, it is not. Many people see their national Jewish communities as part of their population and Israel as another country with another government. For many people there is a huge difference between being Jewish and being Israeli citizen!
And brazilians are quite pro-Zionist also and very pro-Israel, except the millions of Arabs (who themselves are not very beloved in Brazil as they have a bad reputation). But these Arabs see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and thus as a compatriot, while Israelis for them are Jews living in a country where they don't belong, which they have "stolen". And I think this is the same with many Christian Arabs. They have nothing against Jews as long as they live outside Israel. While Muslims think Jews have NO place in this entire world and have to be wiped out. I find both views very irritating and they make me angry!  >:(
If someone tries to deny or severe the link between the Jewish reliigon and the Jewish nationality he is a Jew hater. Jews who identify themselves as, say, A German of the religion of Moses, are self hating Jews.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Hyades on August 05, 2009, 12:15:53 PM
What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?



I've been living in Sao Paulo for 2 years. And I can tell you Maronites are very anti-Israeli! Sao Paulo has the biggest Maronite community outside the Middle East and about 4 million people there are of Arab descent. They are not anti-Semitic at all, but very anti-Israel!


Being anti Israel is inclusive in being anti Jewish.
No, it is not. Many people see their national Jewish communities as part of their population and Israel as another country with another government. For many people there is a huge difference between being Jewish and being Israeli citizen!
And brazilians are quite pro-Zionist also and very pro-Israel, except the millions of Arabs (who themselves are not very beloved in Brazil as they have a bad reputation). But these Arabs see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and thus as a compatriot, while Israelis for them are Jews living in a country where they don't belong, which they have "stolen". And I think this is the same with many Christian Arabs. They have nothing against Jews as long as they live outside Israel. While Muslims think Jews have NO place in this entire world and have to be wiped out. I find both views very irritating and they make me angry!  >:(
If someone tries to deny or severe the link between the Jewish reliigon and the Jewish nationality he is a Jew hater. Jews who identify themselves as, say, A German of the religion of Moses, are self hating Jews.

Then I am self-hating. Because I consider myself German. My ancestors are from here since centuries, I was born here, I have my friends and family here, I had my entire youth and almost the whole life here in Germany and my first language is German. No one ever considered me as someone alien or as "not part of German society". Yes, I am German and I am Jewish, I have distant but anyway strong roots to the Holy Land and I defend it wherever I can.

However I do never deny my deep feelings for Israel and an intense connection to the Holy Land. But how can I say I am Israeli if I have no relatives there, if I have only spent one consecutive year and several months in Israel? If I made aliyah to Israel I would not be considered an Israeli by the native Sabre but only be considered a Jewish immigrant, an alien!

And no, dividing Jews from a certain nation from Israelis is natural for someone who is Christian. How can you expect a Christian to understand the meaning of Israel for Jews who aren't born and sometimes haven't even been to Israel? I think religion and nationality shouldn't be mixed up.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on August 05, 2009, 12:56:05 PM
What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?



I've been living in Sao Paulo for 2 years. And I can tell you Maronites are very anti-Israeli! Sao Paulo has the biggest Maronite community outside the Middle East and about 4 million people there are of Arab descent. They are not anti-Semitic at all, but very anti-Israel!


Being anti Israel is inclusive in being anti Jewish.
No, it is not. Many people see their national Jewish communities as part of their population and Israel as another country with another government. For many people there is a huge difference between being Jewish and being Israeli citizen!
And brazilians are quite pro-Zionist also and very pro-Israel, except the millions of Arabs (who themselves are not very beloved in Brazil as they have a bad reputation). But these Arabs see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and thus as a compatriot, while Israelis for them are Jews living in a country where they don't belong, which they have "stolen". And I think this is the same with many Christian Arabs. They have nothing against Jews as long as they live outside Israel. While Muslims think Jews have NO place in this entire world and have to be wiped out. I find both views very irritating and they make me angry!  >:(
If someone tries to deny or severe the link between the Jewish reliigon and the Jewish nationality he is a Jew hater. Jews who identify themselves as, say, A German of the religion of Moses, are self hating Jews.

Then I am self-hating. Because I consider myself German. My ancestors are from here since centuries, I was born here, I have my friends and family here, I had my entire youth and almost the whole life here in Germany and my first language is German. No one ever considered me as someone alien or as "not part of German society". Yes, I am German and I am Jewish, I have distant but anyway strong roots to the Holy Land and I defend it wherever I can.
A Jew is a Jew no matter where he lives, no matter what language he speaks. If being German is more or as important to you than being a Jew, then you are indeed a self hating assimilating Jew. I am not an Israeli Jew, I just a Jew.  How ironic is what you say of how you were never considered an alien to society, in Germany of all place.

Quote
However I do never deny my deep feelings for Israel and an intense connection to the Holy Land. But how can I say I am Israeli if I have no relatives there, if I have only spent one consecutive year and several months in Israel? If I made aliyah to Israel I would not be considered an Israeli by the native Sabre but only be considered a Jewish immigrant, an alien!
There are also Israelis who think of themselves as Israeli national first, then a Jew by religious association. They are also self hating Jews. There is no such identity as Israeli. It is just an adjective indicating a place. It doesn't matter where you live, your first priority and first loyalty should go to your own people. If you make Aliyah you can do very well since you already speak Hebrew. You will in most cases be treated very gracefully by Israelis, aliyah is still regarded very highly by most Israelis. But regardless of where you live, you are a Jew. A Jew, not just Jewish man, you are a Jew.

Quote
And no, dividing Jews from a certain nation from Israelis is natural for someone who is Christian. How can you expect a Christian to understand the meaning of Israel for Jews who aren't born and sometimes haven't even been to Israel? I think religion and nationality shouldn't be mixed up.
I expect a Jew to know better. Are you a Christian ? Why do you try to think like a Christian if you are a Jew  ? And aside from that, as it is evident from Christians I meet on this forum, they get, they understand perfectly  who is the rightful people to live in Israel. I suppose anyone who reads the bible should understand this easily.

Finally, I want to make clear, I am not preaching Jewish pride or superiority, not Israeli patriotism or anything like that. I am just stating the facts. Judaism is more than a religion, its a complete identity.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on August 05, 2009, 12:59:59 PM
I forgot to mention that nationality (לאום) is not an important concept to the Jews. Look how we are called in the bible: עם ישראל The people of Israel. Nationality is a modern concept may be even one that is alien to Judaism.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Ulli on August 05, 2009, 01:14:21 PM
Interesting discussion.

Hyades, you will discover one day the fact, that nationalities are only illusions. I did and after this I think more clear.

Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Hyades on August 05, 2009, 04:18:33 PM
What is your opinion on the Maronite Christians living in and outside Lebanon? Would you consider them pro-Israel?



I've been living in Sao Paulo for 2 years. And I can tell you Maronites are very anti-Israeli! Sao Paulo has the biggest Maronite community outside the Middle East and about 4 million people there are of Arab descent. They are not anti-Semitic at all, but very anti-Israel!


Being anti Israel is inclusive in being anti Jewish.
No, it is not. Many people see their national Jewish communities as part of their population and Israel as another country with another government. For many people there is a huge difference between being Jewish and being Israeli citizen!
And brazilians are quite pro-Zionist also and very pro-Israel, except the millions of Arabs (who themselves are not very beloved in Brazil as they have a bad reputation). But these Arabs see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and thus as a compatriot, while Israelis for them are Jews living in a country where they don't belong, which they have "stolen". And I think this is the same with many Christian Arabs. They have nothing against Jews as long as they live outside Israel. While Muslims think Jews have NO place in this entire world and have to be wiped out. I find both views very irritating and they make me angry!  >:(
If someone tries to deny or severe the link between the Jewish reliigon and the Jewish nationality he is a Jew hater. Jews who identify themselves as, say, A German of the religion of Moses, are self hating Jews.

Then I am self-hating. Because I consider myself German. My ancestors are from here since centuries, I was born here, I have my friends and family here, I had my entire youth and almost the whole life here in Germany and my first language is German. No one ever considered me as someone alien or as "not part of German society". Yes, I am German and I am Jewish, I have distant but anyway strong roots to the Holy Land and I defend it wherever I can.
A Jew is a Jew no matter where he lives, no matter what language he speaks. If being German is more or as important to you than being a Jew, then you are indeed a self hating assimilating Jew. I am not an Israeli Jew, I just a Jew.  How ironic is what you say of how you were never considered an alien to society, in Germany of all place.

Quote
However I do never deny my deep feelings for Israel and an intense connection to the Holy Land. But how can I say I am Israeli if I have no relatives there, if I have only spent one consecutive year and several months in Israel? If I made aliyah to Israel I would not be considered an Israeli by the native Sabre but only be considered a Jewish immigrant, an alien!
There are also Israelis who think of themselves as Israeli national first, then a Jew by religious association. They are also self hating Jews. There is no such identity as Israeli. It is just an adjective indicating a place. It doesn't matter where you live, your first priority and first loyalty should go to your own people. If you make Aliyah you can do very well since you already speak Hebrew. You will in most cases be treated very gracefully by Israelis, aliyah is still regarded very highly by most Israelis. But regardless of where you live, you are a Jew. A Jew, not just Jewish man, you are a Jew.

Quote
And no, dividing Jews from a certain nation from Israelis is natural for someone who is Christian. How can you expect a Christian to understand the meaning of Israel for Jews who aren't born and sometimes haven't even been to Israel? I think religion and nationality shouldn't be mixed up.
I expect a Jew to know better. Are you a Christian ? Why do you try to think like a Christian if you are a Jew  ? And aside from that, as it is evident from Christians I meet on this forum, they get, they understand perfectly  who is the rightful people to live in Israel. I suppose anyone who reads the bible should understand this easily.

Finally, I want to make clear, I am not preaching Jewish pride or superiority, not Israeli patriotism or anything like that. I am just stating the facts. Judaism is more than a religion, its a complete identity.

Oh my goodness! All I said is that other countries have other concepts of thinking. Why do you think Brazilians are Jew-haters or Israel-haters only because the see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and Israelis as Israelis? The fact is that Jews are all united by their religion no matter which nationality they have. I read the same words in the Torah as a Jew in Israel, a Jew in the US and a Jew in Australia, we have the same rites, the same prayers and and similar customs. Anyway I cannot see the point where I am self-hating just for considering myself German more than Israeli. If I said I was more German than Jewish - then you would be right. But where did I say that?
There are surely things that distinguishes me from the majority like trying to eat kosher as far as possible, I go to a synagogue instead of a church and I have Hebrew roots! Nevertheless I am also a son of this country and my nationality shows me as a German citizen. This doesn't mean anything, since a nationality is limited to frontiers, religion not!
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Manch on August 05, 2009, 04:28:04 PM
You mentioned "arabic beautiful and ancient culture" What are you talking about? Please provide examples - I've never heard of such a thing. If you refer to "islamic" culture, than majority of this "culture" was stolen or appropriated by Arabs from Persians, Uzbeks, Indians, Christians, Jews. Arabs were nomadic people who had no culture, hence the adoption of islam. Please let me know if I am wrong. Thank you!
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on August 05, 2009, 04:30:25 PM
If the Brazilian refuse to see Jews as a united people who rightfully own their own national homeland then they are Jew haters. The Islamonazi mullahs in Iran say the same things: "We do not hate Jews, only the Zionists who illegally occupy Palestine".

This type of claim is one of the most anti Jewish ones that there are. They not only hate us, they also deny our self definition, self determination, and self identity. This is a Nazi claim.

Haydes, you are not a son of Germany, you are a son of (Avraham, Yitzhak, and ) Israel.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Hyades on August 05, 2009, 04:33:18 PM
If the Brazilian refuse to see Jews as a united people who rightfully own their own national homeland then they are Jew haters. The Islamonazi mullahs in Iran say the same things: "We do not hate Jews, only the Zionists who illegally occupy Palestine".

This type of claim is one of the most anti Jewish ones that there are. They not only hate us, they also deny our self definition, self determination, and self identity. This is a Nazi claim.

Haydes, you are not a son of Germany, you are a son of (Avraham, Yitzhak, and ) Israel.

Where did I say that they say that? They surely recognize the state of Israel to exist, they are pro-Israel and they recognize the unity of all the Jews but even though consider their Jews as part of their own society!

Yes, I am a son of Avraham and his descendants. But I am part of the German society also,... better?  :)
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Spectator on August 05, 2009, 04:54:41 PM
If I made aliyah to Israel I would not be considered an Israeli by the native Sabre but only be considered a Jewish immigrant, an alien!

Take it easy :) I was born outside Israel and made aliya aged 20. I have never felt any discrimination. Israel is a great country and our true home!
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on August 05, 2009, 05:05:36 PM
If the Brazilian refuse to see Jews as a united people who rightfully own their own national homeland then they are Jew haters. The Islamonazi mullahs in Iran say the same things: "We do not hate Jews, only the Zionists who illegally occupy Palestine".

This type of claim is one of the most anti Jewish ones that there are. They not only hate us, they also deny our self definition, self determination, and self identity. This is a Nazi claim.

Haydes, you are not a son of Germany, you are a son of (Avraham, Yitzhak, and ) Israel.

Where did I say that they say that? They surely recognize the state of Israel to exist, they are pro-Israel and they recognize the unity of all the Jews but even though consider their Jews as part of their own society!

Yes, I am a son of Avraham and his descendants. But I am part of the German society also,... better?  :)
You said that about the Lebanese Brazilians. You said:
Quote
... Many people see their national Jewish communities as part of their population and Israel as another country with another government. For many people there is a huge difference between being Jewish and being Israeli citizen!
And brazilians are quite pro-Zionist also and very pro-Israel, except the millions of Arabs (who themselves are not very beloved in Brazil as they have a bad reputation). But these Arabs see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and thus as a compatriot, while Israelis for them are Jews living in a country where they don't belong, which they have "stolen". And I think this is the same with many Christian Arabs. They have nothing against Jews as long as they live outside Israel. While Muslims think Jews have NO place in this entire world and have to be wiped out. I find both views very irritating and they make me angry!

So, I'll take your words and assume the rest of the Brazilians are friendly folks. But if the Christian Arabs over there say that the Jews "stole Palestine" and then they are against Jews everywhere. If someone say A Jew cannot have his own independent homeland and he must live in exile under some artificial nationality he is Jew hater. Why don't you comprehend that, I don't get. Your attitude of trying to interpret the wicked words of sweet speaking Jew haters is not unlike the crazy Israelis who try to convince themselves that the Arabs want peace and they don't really mean literally to all the things that they teach their children in school etc.

Bottom line is: If someone try to steal your heritage and identity, he hates you. If you lose your identity and heritage, you hate yourself. Haydes, I think you are not lost, which is why I am motivated to help you stay on the inside of the fence. 
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Spectator on August 05, 2009, 05:06:31 PM
Hyades, look at Chaim Ben Pesach. He was born in America and he's true American patriot. But he would give evreything to make aliya and stays in US only because Israeli leftist authorities deny him entry. You can do very quickly and easily what Chaim Ben Pesach is fighting for many years!
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on August 05, 2009, 07:01:16 PM
Sorry but I'm with Hyades in this debate.
Zelhar I think you are misunderstanding Hyades there. He does not deny the existence of israel, nor does he deny the importance of israel to the jewish people, he would also love to do aliya, but all he is saying is, he is a german, a jewish german citizen. Sorry but I don't know where's the fault in that. He acknowledges and appreciates israel as a true home of the jewish people, but he is not living here yet, he lives in germany, have always been there, so is his parents and his grand parents and his ancestors. He is not an israeli, he is german. If you're accusing him as a self-hating jew just for saying that he's german (while not denying his jewish identity) then you are way, way too extreme into this religion-nationality-israel thing. He will start calling himself an israel jewish when and only when he do aliyah. Its like, a russian living in israel but he calls himself a russian citizen nevertheless. Its not fair, if he wanna call himself russian, then why not get back to russia. Just an example!

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on August 05, 2009, 07:56:24 PM
You mentioned "arabic beautiful and ancient culture" What are you talking about? Please provide examples - I've never heard of such a thing. If you refer to "islamic" culture, than majority of this "culture" was stolen or appropriated by Arabs from Persians, Uzbeks, Indians, Christians, Jews. Arabs were nomadic people who had no culture, hence the adoption of islam. Please let me know if I am wrong. Thank you!

Haven't red this entirely, but I suppose most of it is true: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/thelede/posts/arabculture.pdf

* As far as I know (and concerned), I'll start with the arabic language. Its a sophisticated and hard, but very beautiful language (although I prefer english) arabs had many excellent poets and writers that wrote amazing literature, and one very very old poem-novel (its a big book but written in a poetic manner) which is called "Qays wa Layla". Its the exact same thing as "Romeo and Juliet". Its obvious that "Romeo and Juliet" was based on "Qays wa Layla" because it was written back in the middle of the second mellinia, while "Qays wa Layla" was written in the days of muhamad (p1ss be upon him).

* The arabic horses are the best horses in the world

* arabic music such as the old Um Kalthom music, Abd al haleem hafez, and such, was and still an amazing peice of work, very popular even throughout the whole world. Arabs also have their own instruments such as Oud, Durbaki, etc etc.

* Food - we have the greatest food in the world. You are invited in my village to try :)

* Dancing - arabic dancing is one of the most popular and great dancing in the world as well, next to bally etc etc ... many women from around the world learns arabic dancing because of its beauty and agility.

* The arabs are well-known for their great hospitality, giving, and are very conservative people.

And so many more.

All this, were before Islam as well. Islam came, this whole image is ruined. There were christian arabs even before Islam came, and pagan arabs as well, and even jewish arabs. All followed the same traditions and the same language. Again, until islam came and conquered all. My dream is to wake up one day and see Islam is gone and the arabs are free of this demonic image that Islam brought on us. I hope that answered your question.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Hyades on August 06, 2009, 12:58:51 AM
If the Brazilian refuse to see Jews as a united people who rightfully own their own national homeland then they are Jew haters. The Islamonazi mullahs in Iran say the same things: "We do not hate Jews, only the Zionists who illegally occupy Palestine".

This type of claim is one of the most anti Jewish ones that there are. They not only hate us, they also deny our self definition, self determination, and self identity. This is a Nazi claim.

Haydes, you are not a son of Germany, you are a son of (Avraham, Yitzhak, and ) Israel.

Where did I say that they say that? They surely recognize the state of Israel to exist, they are pro-Israel and they recognize the unity of all the Jews but even though consider their Jews as part of their own society!

Yes, I am a son of Avraham and his descendants. But I am part of the German society also,... better?  :)
You said that about the Lebanese Brazilians. You said:
Quote
... Many people see their national Jewish communities as part of their population and Israel as another country with another government. For many people there is a huge difference between being Jewish and being Israeli citizen!
And brazilians are quite pro-Zionist also and very pro-Israel, except the millions of Arabs (who themselves are not very beloved in Brazil as they have a bad reputation). But these Arabs see Brazilian Jews as Brazilians and thus as a compatriot, while Israelis for them are Jews living in a country where they don't belong, which they have "stolen". And I think this is the same with many Christian Arabs. They have nothing against Jews as long as they live outside Israel. While Muslims think Jews have NO place in this entire world and have to be wiped out. I find both views very irritating and they make me angry!

So, I'll take your words and assume the rest of the Brazilians are friendly folks. But if the Christian Arabs over there say that the Jews "stole Palestine" and then they are against Jews everywhere. If someone say A Jew cannot have his own independent homeland and he must live in exile under some artificial nationality he is Jew hater. Why don't you comprehend that, I don't get. Your attitude of trying to interpret the wicked words of sweet speaking Jew haters is not unlike the crazy Israelis who try to convince themselves that the Arabs want peace and they don't really mean literally to all the things that they teach their children in school etc.

Bottom line is: If someone try to steal your heritage and identity, he hates you. If you lose your identity and heritage, you hate yourself. Haydes, I think you are not lost, which is why I am motivated to help you stay on the inside of the fence. 

Sorry but you do too much of interpretation into things not said! If someone thinks a Jew is not an Israeli as long as he lives outside Israel, that is nothing Jew hating. In fact I can only consider myself Israeli living in Israel! I see myself as a citizen of this world who appreciated there is a homeland for all of us Jews, a shelter that may accept Jewish people in need of a shelter.
Also you are right, the Brazilian Arabs ARE anti-Israel and I never denied it. But this is also due to their ignorance. Many of them emigrated to Brazil under Ottoman rule, when Eretz Yisrael was an Ottoman province. We all know that Ottomans treated Arabs and especially Christian Arabs as 4th class people, so did they with Jews. When later the British and the UN devided the "Palestine" mandate into Jewish and Arab, these Christians saw it as some kind of land robbery, which is not the truth - but they are complete ignorants who think Arab muslims would treat Arab Christians better than Israelis do. We all know that Christians in Arab countries suffer a lot and would suffer even more without Israel. Because Muslims would like to wipe them out of the map right after Israel!
People hating Zionism hate the thought of Jews being a defending people with a home country and ready to fight for themselves. What most non-Jewish people would like to see are still the passive, suffering and non-defensive Jews that are easy victims to stupid ideologies. But this, we know it, is over. Coward Neturei Karta Jews are the absolute minority and if they want to feed their enemies, they will see what happens to them one day!
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Hyades on August 06, 2009, 01:12:32 AM
Sorry but I'm with Hyades in this debate.
Zelhar I think you are misunderstanding Hyades there. He does not deny the existence of israel, nor does he deny the importance of israel to the jewish people, he would also love to do aliya, but all he is saying is, he is a german, a jewish german citizen. Sorry but I don't know where's the fault in that. He acknowledges and appreciates israel as a true home of the jewish people, but he is not living here yet, he lives in germany, have always been there, so is his parents and his grand parents and his ancestors. He is not an israeli, he is german. If you're accusing him as a self-hating jew just for saying that he's german (while not denying his jewish identity) then you are way, way too extreme into this religion-nationality-israel thing. He will start calling himself an israel jewish when and only when he do aliyah. Its like, a russian living in israel but he calls himself a russian citizen nevertheless. Its not fair, if he wanna call himself russian, then why not get back to russia. Just an example!

My 2 cents.

Yes unfortunately he misunderstands me a lot. A person giving him/herself a nationality is not hating oneself - then 99% of human kind would hate itself!!!!
Also I never deny my roots and never said I was this or that in first place. Let's not forget that also the German state gave me a lot: I earn my money with Germans, my friends are mostly Germans (and other nationalities), the German state gave me education, opportunities and treats me equal to all other German people.
Surely it would have been the same if my parents had made aliyah to Israel.
But I do not put myself here in my country as the odd man out just feeding Nazi ideology that says that Jews aren't part of the society, that they are strangers and that they cannot be Germans/British/French,....
Man, there were 90,000 Jews who fought in the German army in WWI against France, being loyal citizens. Were they self-hating? I don't think so, but they know that Jewish traditions and culture as well as the religion itself does NOT depend on nationality!
Where did Yiddish and Ladino come from? From strong loyal European Jews who made it a part of the European continent by making up so many arts, culture and literature! I personally wouldn't call the holocaust survivors who live here today as self-haters just because they do not live in Israel. They may be self-caring because I don't know if I wanted to live in a tumultuous region if I was an old man who passed through so many horrible things as a holocaust survivor. If they decided to live in a place that is at least calmer, I think this doesn't mean they don't support Israel.
I do support Israel with my youtube channel, with 500-800€ per month (which a self-hating Jew would surely spend on other things!) and I am here! If I was an anti-Israeli, Jew-hater-supporter, I would not be here!

But honestly I am neither here to be offended a self-hater, a this and that. If that is what makes JTF, I will leave this forum and surely I won't come back.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Spectator on August 06, 2009, 04:53:13 AM
I certainly woudn't call Hyades a self-hating Jew. When judging a person, I must take into consideration the conditions in which he/she was born and grew up. I understand you, Hyades. If the country where you were born didn't oppress you, give you education, health care etc. and good friends, it is quite natural to feel gratitude to it and feel a part of it.

The question is what is more important to you, your country or your (Jewish) people. Are you a Jew? Is your mother Jewish?

If yes, think about all the suffering the Jews have expericenced all though 2000 years of staying in Germany and in Europe in general.  Remember countless Jewish lives that were taken in the name of Christianity or European nations. Remeber the heroism of the Jews who didn't give up their faith and their identity. I dn't even want to mention the Holocaust...

Do you think Germany deserved the faithful patriotism of those 90.000 Jews who fought for her against France, England and  Russia in WWI? Did France, England and Russia deserve the faithful patriotism of the tens of thousand of Jews who fought for them against Germany?

Don't you think it's terrible that the Jews from diffentent countries were killing each other for the interests of European countries?

If there's now a war between Germany and US, would you join the German army knowing that there American Jews who fight for US and you'll probable have to kill some of them? (The same question I can ask American Jews).

The exile is our curse. It will always put the Jews before dilemma who are more loyal, your country or your people. And even if you choose your country, there'll always be people who accuse you that you are more loyal to your people, whatever you do.

I don't hate Europeans. I know there are many good people among them. There are righteous people from Europe, like the members of our forum. It is wonderful you have German friends, any true friendship is sacred.



Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on August 06, 2009, 06:17:38 AM
Now who misunderstand who ?

I never said that A Jew should think of himself as Israeli, I actually said that I don't even think of myself as Israeli but simply as a Jew. I also don't say that a Jew must live in Israel. We are the people of Israe, the people of Israel = the Jews, not people who live in the state of Israel. We are obliged to defend our people, and our home land. For a Jew, nationality must comes last, after the people, the homeland, the religion. I don't recognize terms like "Jewish American/Israeli/German" the correct term is "Amrican/Israeli/German Jew".

If there is a conflict between being a loyal German citizen, to being a Jew, if you must pick sides, which side are you on ?

Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: The One and Only Mo on August 06, 2009, 10:41:09 AM
Now who misunderstand who ?

I never said that A Jew should think of himself as Israeli, I actually said that I don't even think of myself as Israeli but simply as a Jew. I also don't say that a Jew must live in Israel. We are the people of Israe, the people of Israel = the Jews, not people who live in the state of Israel. We are obliged to defend our people, and our home land. For a Jew, nationality must comes last, after the people, the homeland, the religion. I don't recognize terms like "Jewish American/Israeli/German" the correct term is "Amrican/Israeli/German Jew".

If there is a conflict between being a loyal German citizen, to being a Jew, if you must pick sides, which side are you on ?



Interesting. hmmmm.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Hyades on August 06, 2009, 11:47:08 AM
Now who misunderstand who ?

I never said that A Jew should think of himself as Israeli, I actually said that I don't even think of myself as Israeli but simply as a Jew. I also don't say that a Jew must live in Israel. We are the people of Israe, the people of Israel = the Jews, not people who live in the state of Israel. We are obliged to defend our people, and our home land. For a Jew, nationality must comes last, after the people, the homeland, the religion. I don't recognize terms like "Jewish American/Israeli/German" the correct term is "Amrican/Israeli/German Jew".

If there is a conflict between being a loyal German citizen, to being a Jew, if you must pick sides, which side are you on ?



If there was a choice to make, then yes, my Jewish heritage would come first. But I am in the lucky condition that there is no need to choose. Because the choice between national and religious is also a choice between secular values and HaShem. I would rather be a poor follower of HaShem then a rich follower of any nationality or ideology.

@Spectator:
You are right in every thing you say. And no, Germany did not deserve Jewish WWI loyalty since it was given no value afterwards and they were treated worse than any creature on this planet!
But if Germany had a war against the US I would try not to pick up arms. If it was Germany against Russia or Muslims, then yes, I would defend Germany!
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Zelhar on August 06, 2009, 11:55:50 AM
I will put the discussion aside and just say that I apologize for calling or implying that Haydes is a self hating Jew. I shouldn't have say that and I believe Haydes is, regardless of difference of opinions or misunderstandings, a good and loyal Jew.
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Madmarv on August 06, 2009, 12:33:50 PM
I will put the discussion aside and just say that I apologize for calling or implying that Haydes is a self hating Jew. I shouldn't have say that and I believe Haydes is, regardless of difference of opinions or misunderstandings, a good and loyal Jew.

Thank you
Title: Re: Ask me about arabs.
Post by: Hyades on August 07, 2009, 02:05:58 AM
I will put the discussion aside and just say that I apologize for calling or implying that Haydes is a self hating Jew. I shouldn't have say that and I believe Haydes is, regardless of difference of opinions or misunderstandings, a good and loyal Jew.

Okay, I accept it! Thank you!  :)