JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => Ask Posters Show Threads => Topic started by: Zvulun Ben Moshe on January 24, 2008, 03:26:53 AM
-
The show is now called Ask Zvulun ben Moshe.
-
great! :D
What/who is the strongest Arabian enemy we have?
-
great! :D
What/who is the strongest Arabian enemy we have?
That's simple Other A-rabs and their idol Illah.
-
great! :D
What/who is the strongest Arabian enemy we have?
That's simple Other A-rabs and their idol Illah.
What can we do about it?
-
Nuke Mecca, then when you see demonstrations in protest, bomb them.
-
Shalom Zvuluun, can you give us singles some dating pointers?
-
Good luck. O0
-
Nuke Mecca, then when you see demonstrations in protest, bomb them.
:::D :::D :::D O0 O0 O0
You're 100% getting my support.
-
Dear Zvulun, who do you support in the republican primary?
-
which country has been Israel's truest real friend?
-
Shalom Zvuluun, can you give us singles some dating pointers?
you have to go to the Dr. Dan show.
-
Is the Church (Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant ) anti-semitic?
-
Dear ladies, gentlemen, and very possibly some unisexual humanoids!
I have decided to try myself on the audio front of our battle, and need your help to advance.
Following the glorious experience of running Ask JTF Show by Chaim and of no lesser interest Ask the Love Doctor Show by Dannycookie, I am opening a pilot show called Ask the Fishtank.
Even though the name may sound a little humorous, the nature of the show will be serious with subjects running from philosophy to history.
This show is by no means a proclamation of my erudition or wisdom of any size. I hardy found these words in the dictionary. This show is an opportunity for all of us to learn and share knowledge and thoughts.
The moral of the story is: “Even fish will start talking, if you ask a good question”.
For now, I will answer questions as they accumulate with a possibility of recording weekly shows in the future.
Wouldn't it be a good idea to make Chaim-style monologue videos about all sorts of political issues pertaining to Israel the USA and the fight against the enemies of Jews and the evil Islam, but without mentioning any JTF affiliation so as to avoid all the ad hominem attacks that plague any of Chaim's videos that he posts on LL or zootube? This way we can expouse the same views but without being labeled "terrorists" and this may help to gain followers who are believe in the same ideas but may be wary of the past deeds of JTF leadership. And then they can get to know the message and the organization and THEN hear about Chaim ben Pesach and how he has moved on from his past and leads this positive movement? Or something along these lines? At the very least so that videos won't be automatically taken down from these Muslim-patrolled video sites.
-
I got a question about Irans atomic program.
Many say it can be destroyed though air strikes. I'm not so sure about that because Iran certainly learned from the strikes against Iraks facilities in the early 80ies. Iran has some of its plants and facilities built underground possibly with a branched tunnel system.
Moreover some of the research for weapons is done in Syria in order to "hide" it there in the case Iran is attacked.
Do you think that Irans nuclear program can still be stopped with targeted air stikes only?
-
has there been a show already, im confused?!
-
Due to some temporary technical problems, I am unable to record the show, but will reply to the questions in a text format.
-
great! :D
What/who is the strongest Arabian enemy we have?
If we are talking about Israel's enemies, then I think it is important to understand that Israel’s military might is much greater than that of all of its Arab enemies combined.
And thus the only viable strength that the Arabs have (forget oil) is our (Israel’s) weakness to be sane and our failure to use all of the opportunities given to us by G-d.
-
great! :D
What/who is the strongest Arabian enemy we have?
That's simple Other A-rabs and their idol Illah.
What can we do about it?
Be friends with them… on a distance. Arabs that are occupying the Land of Israel have to be sent to their historical homeland – Arabian Peninsula, from where Mohammed started his occupational wars against the rest of the world forcefully converting, robbing, killing, raping etc.
-
Nuke Mecca, then when you see demonstrations in protest, bomb them.
Mecca is very close to Israel geographically, and thus if you nuke Mecca, you literally put Israel in the middle of an ecological catastrophy.
-
Shalom Zvuluun, can you give us singles some dating pointers?
I would have preferred if you were more specific on this subject, since it is very broad, but I can tell you this much: stop worrying about techniques, think of how to improve yourself as a personality for girls to think of techniques on how to get or keep you.
-
Dear Zvulun, who do you support in the republican primary?
Mike Huckabee. I have supported him from the beginning. I think we are dealing with an exceptional guy here. Every thing that he says I can put my money on. Boy, America will be lucky, if he in charge…
-
which country has been Israel's truest real friend?
None. We were lucky if had a real friend, forget the truest real friend. But to be honest, it would be naive to expect a true friendship from a country, since countries have national interests, which can make two or more of them short or long term allies, not more.
But here is the important part. Israel has not learned to be a friend to itself. How then do you expect others to be friends with Israel?
I personally don’t have many real friends. Not because I don’t like people, but because I learnt to be a good friend to myself to only understand that everyone else had long done it before me.
-
Is the Church (Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant ) anti-semitic?
No, they are not. Arabs are also Semites, and thus I would prefer the term anti-Jewish. And they are anti-Jewish in two ways:
1) Theologically. This is simple. The principles of Christianity are in sharp contrast of that of Judaism, and that is absolutely OK with me, since any other religion is, and we, Jews, don’t demand that Gentiles were Jewish.
2) But here is where those Churches were not only anti-Jewish, but also anti-Christian. First of all, those institutions were created by the ruling elites of their respective countries of origin in response to the growing Christian population (mainly poor citizens and slaves) and thus keep control and preserve their empires this way. This way Roman Empire became Roman Catholic Church, for example. Secondly, the way those churches acted towards the Jews (pogroms, inquisitions, crusades) is certainly in a drastic conflict with the main principles of Christianity, which are love, mercy, forgiveness.
-
I got a question about Irans atomic program.
Many say it can be destroyed though air strikes. I'm not so sure about that because Iran certainly learned from the strikes against Iraks facilities in the early 80ies. Iran has some of its plants and facilities built underground possibly with a branched tunnel system.
Moreover some of the research for weapons is done in Syria in order to "hide" it there in the case Iran is attacked.
Do you think that Irans nuclear program can still be stopped with targeted air stikes only?
You are right. It cannot be destroyed with an exclusive bombing of that what our intelligence considers a part of the nuclear program of Iran. We will have to put Iran on its knees, destroy it fundamentally for it to forget not only about nuclear weapons, but of any kind of serious weaponry. And honestly, I would expect that Iran responds to the first attack, and thus leave us no chance but finish it.
-
Wouldn't it be a good idea to make Chaim-style monologue videos about all sorts of political issues pertaining to Israel the USA and the fight against the enemies of Jews and the evil Islam, but without mentioning any JTF affiliation so as to avoid all the ad hominem attacks that plague any of Chaim's videos that he posts on LL or zootube? This way we can expouse the same views but without being labeled "terrorists" and this may help to gain followers who are believe in the same ideas but may be wary of the past deeds of JTF leadership. And then they can get to know the message and the organization and THEN hear about Chaim ben Pesach and how he has moved on from his past and leads this positive movement? Or something along these lines? At the very least so that videos won't be automatically taken down from these Muslim-patrolled video sites.
You are very right. 8;) And you sound like you are pretty knowledgeable in this. Why won’t you work on it?
-
This concludes my first round of answering your questions, my friends. Hope, I didn't offend anyone with my responses. That was not my intention any way.
I wish you all peace, but after a decisive victory.
-
Thanks for your answers, Zvulun ben Moshe!
-
It is my pleasure to anounse a new season for your questions, ladies and gentlemen. 8;)
-
Why did you change the name of your show?
-
Why did you change the name of your show?
It was done in the light of the surge in the number of Ask shows by JTF members
-
Why did you change the name of your show?
It was done in the light of the surge in the number of Ask shows by JTF members
ok
-
Do you believe in the Torah both Written and Oral?
If no, then no. But if yes, how can you say that their is no Heven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud and is definitly something that Judaism does believe in. It is also connected to what all Jews must believe that their is reward for the rightious and punishment for the wicked.
-
Do you believe in the Torah both Written and Oral?
If no, then no. But if yes, how can you say that their is no Heven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud and is definitly something that Judaism does believe in. It is also connected to what all Jews must believe that their is reward for the rightious and punishment for the wicked.
Let's not mix everything up.
1) I do believe in the Written Torah as the divine inspiration
2) Talmud is a man-made collection of rabbinic commentaries, with some of which you may agree and with some you have the right to disagree. And I do disagree with some commentators. I may be too dumb to understand the wisdom of some of those sages, but the right to disagree is still there.
Therefore your statement “If no, then no” does not work here. I say, Torah – absolutely yes, Talmud – mostly yes.
Then you say “how can you say that there is no Heaven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud”.
Here is the trick: I can say that, because Torah doesn’t mention anywhere about Heaven or Hell.
If Maimonides talked about it in Talmud, with all due respect, that doesn’t make his opinion mandatory, since: 1) it is not in Torah, 2) it wasn't divinely inspired.
To continue on this, here is my hypothesis on where Maimonides got the idea of Heaven and Hell:
1) First, we were given Torah, which does not mention afterlife ANYWHERE. The dry bones to me are symbolic, embodying Jewish souls that will return to G-d from atheism and secularism.
2) Then when Greeks and Romans with their long and bloody occupation of the Land of Israel brought the myth of afterworld from the Greek mythology.
3) Then Jesus was influenced by the myth and included it in his preaching, since the concept was very popular throughout the empire.
4) Later Mohammed in order to “unite” everyone that he could, made Jesus a prophet and accepted the notion of afterworld as something very effective in rewarding or terrorizing people.
5) Later, Maimonides, who lived among Muslims, decides to comment on the notion of heaven and hell, since in Islam it had a major place and importance.
History, even the most intricate, does not change the original word of G-d.
-
Do you believe in the Torah both Written and Oral?
If no, then no. But if yes, how can you say that their is no Heven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud and is definitly something that Judaism does believe in. It is also connected to what all Jews must believe that their is reward for the rightious and punishment for the wicked.
Let's not mix everything up.
1) I do believe in the Written Torah as the divine inspiration
2) Talmud is a man-made collection of rabbinic commentaries, with some of which you may agree and with some you have the right to disagree. And I do disagree with some commentators. I may be too dumb to understand the wisdom of some of those sages, but the right to disagree is still there.
Therefore your statement “If no, then no” does not work here. I say, Torah – absolutely yes, Talmud – mostly yes.
Then you say “how can you say that there is no Heaven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud”.
Here is the trick: I can say that, because Torah doesn’t mention anywhere about Heaven or Hell.
If Maimonides talked about it in Talmud, with all due respect, that doesn’t make his opinion mandatory, since: 1) it is not in Torah, 2) it wasn't divinely inspired.
To continue on this, here is my hypothesis on where Maimonides got the idea of Heaven and Hell:
1) First, we were given Torah, which does not mention afterlife ANYWHERE. The dry bones to me are symbolic, embodying Jewish souls that will return to G-d from atheism and secularism.
2) Then when Greeks and Romans with their long and bloody occupation of the Land of Israel brought the myth of afterworld from the Greek mythology.
3) Then Jesus was influenced by the myth and included it in his preaching, since the concept was very popular throughout the empire.
4) Later Mohammed in order to “unite” everyone that he could, made Jesus a prophet and accepted the notion of afterworld as something very effective in rewarding or terrorizing people.
5) Later, Maimonides, who lived among Muslims, decides to comment on the notion of heaven and hell, since in Islam it had a major place and importance.
History, even the most intricate, does not change the original word of G-d.
What you just said is that in reality you do not believe in Judaism. Heven and Hell is one of the tenents of Judasim. Just believing in the Tannach, is not Judaism.
You should see the DivineInformation video on Torahanytime.com , or the New video "Rabbi Yossi Mizrachi: A Night in Kings Point Great Neck (04/01/2008)"
http://www.kolyakov.org/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
-
Do you believe in the Torah both Written and Oral?
If no, then no. But if yes, how can you say that their is no Heven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud and is definitly something that Judaism does believe in. It is also connected to what all Jews must believe that their is reward for the rightious and punishment for the wicked.
Let's not mix everything up.
1) I do believe in the Written Torah as the divine inspiration
2) Talmud is a man-made collection of rabbinic commentaries, with some of which you may agree and with some you have the right to disagree. And I do disagree with some commentators. I may be too dumb to understand the wisdom of some of those sages, but the right to disagree is still there.
Therefore your statement “If no, then no” does not work here. I say, Torah – absolutely yes, Talmud – mostly yes.
Then you say “how can you say that there is no Heaven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud”.
Here is the trick: I can say that, because Torah doesn’t mention anywhere about Heaven or Hell.
If Maimonides talked about it in Talmud, with all due respect, that doesn’t make his opinion mandatory, since: 1) it is not in Torah, 2) it wasn't divinely inspired.
To continue on this, here is my hypothesis on where Maimonides got the idea of Heaven and Hell:
1) First, we were given Torah, which does not mention afterlife ANYWHERE. The dry bones to me are symbolic, embodying Jewish souls that will return to G-d from atheism and secularism.
2) Then when Greeks and Romans with their long and bloody occupation of the Land of Israel brought the myth of afterworld from the Greek mythology.
3) Then Jesus was influenced by the myth and included it in his preaching, since the concept was very popular throughout the empire.
4) Later Mohammed in order to “unite” everyone that he could, made Jesus a prophet and accepted the notion of afterworld as something very effective in rewarding or terrorizing people.
5) Later, Maimonides, who lived among Muslims, decides to comment on the notion of heaven and hell, since in Islam it had a major place and importance.
History, even the most intricate, does not change the original word of G-d.
What you just said is that in reality you do not believe in Judaism. Heven and Hell is one of the tenents of Judasim. Just believing in the Tannach, is not Judaism.
You should see the DivineInformation video on Torahanytime.com , or the New video "Rabbi Yossi Mizrachi: A Night in Kings Point Great Neck (04/01/2008)"
http://www.kolyakov.org/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
So, believing in Tanakh alone is not Judaism? OK.
Well, first of all, I said I believe Tanakh is the only divine inspiration. You, obviously, dont wanna tell me that Talmud is divinely inspired. I did say that Talmud is not 100% authority for me.
I hope that is clear.
Now. I have a question for you.
Who and when was first to introduce the idea of heaven and hell in Judaism?
-
Nuke Mecca, then when you see demonstrations in protest, bomb them.
Mecca is very close to Israel geographically, and thus if you nuke Mecca, you literally put Israel in the middle of an ecological catastrophy.
Maybe Israel could destroy the kaaba and the black stone then?
-
What for? There is little use to it.
I tend to seek for roots of problems first within myself and then in others.
The enemy of Israel and the West is not Islam, but Israel and the West.
Islam is certainly bad for us as well as for Muslims themselves, but it as bad to us as much as we allow it to be so.
So start changes not with others, but within yourself.
-
What for? There is little use to it.
I tend to seek for roots of problems first within myself and then in others.
The enemy of Israel and the West is not Islam, but Israel and the West.
Islam is certainly bad for us as well as for Muslims themselves, but it as bad to us as much as we allow it to be so.
So start changes not with others, but within yourself.
Exactly. The enemy of the West and Israel is the West and Israel itself.
-
What for? There is little use to it.
I tend to seek for roots of problems first within myself and then in others.
The enemy of Israel and the West is not Islam, but Israel and the West.
Islam is certainly bad for us as well as for Muslims themselves, but it as bad to us as much as we allow it to be so.
So start changes not with others, but within yourself.
Exactly. The enemy of the West and Israel is the West and Israel itself.
What about the so-called "Zionist" people, both Jewish and Gentile, who are not really Zionists, but Globalists, and who claim to be working in Israel's interest, thus getting the Nazis all stirred up against all Jews, and at the same time hurting the Jewish people and Israel themselves?
This gets so tangled up sometimes it's hard to keep track of who's a Nazi, who's a true Zionist, who's a faux-zionist/globalist, and who's on which side. I believe that Chaim is a good guy at least :)
-
What for? There is little use to it.
I tend to seek for roots of problems first within myself and then in others.
The enemy of Israel and the West is not Islam, but Israel and the West.
Islam is certainly bad for us as well as for Muslims themselves, but it as bad to us as much as we allow it to be so.
So start changes not with others, but within yourself.
Exactly. The enemy of the West and Israel is the West and Israel itself.
What about the so-called "Zionist" people, both Jewish and Gentile, who are not really Zionists, but Globalists, and who claim to be working in Israel's interest, thus getting the Nazis all stirred up against all Jews, and at the same time hurting the Jewish people and Israel themselves?
This gets so tangled up sometimes it's hard to keep track of who's a Nazi, who's a true Zionist, who's a faux-zionist/globalist, and who's on which side. I believe that Chaim is a good guy at least :)
Where are you from, Rubystars?
-
I'm from Houston, Texas, and I want Israel and all righteous people to survive
-
Well, first of all, why I asked about your geographic location is because of your interesting screen name sounding a little Russian. Russians refer to the stars above the Moscow Kremlin as ruby stars.
Anyways… Back to your question, which surprised me in a negative fashion, unfortunately.
Let’s make something clear.
1) There are evil Jews, no question about it. But their number is disproportionately lower than that of evil Gentiles. Even mathematically it is impossible to be otherwise.
Nazis of course single out Jews from all the rest no matter what.
2) Globalism is a new word for imperialism with only difference that Globalism uses economic intervention supported upon necessity by diplomacy and even military forces.
And again the number of Jews who are among the globalists is laughable in contrast to that of Gentiles.
I think the terms globalism, imperialism and Zionism are incompatible. Look at the size of Israel.
Let’s make certain of several facts to make sure that the Jews can’t come even close to the Gentiles in imperialism and globalism:
1) Israel has never been the largest continental empire in world, unlike Russia.
2) Israel has never been the largest oceanic empire in world, unlike Great Britain.
3) Israel and the Jews have never concurred half of the planet to convert people into Judaism, unlike Muslims.
4) Jews have never killed millions of their own brothers and sisters in religious wars, unlike Christians and Muslims.
5) The Jews did not discover America, nor did they colonize it.
6) The Jews did not bring Blacks to America to use them as slaves.
7) The Jews did not kill millions of natives of colonized territories which they obviously never had.
8) The Jews did not start World War 1.
9) The Jews did not start World War 2 either.
10) The largest corporations in the world are not owned or controlled by the Jews.
11) And after all, the Jews didnt throw themselves out of their homeland, because we always minded our own business, unlike Romans, Greeks, Persians, Arabs, Turks, Brits etc.
What else? You tell me. Does your confusion still persist?
-
I'm not Russian and honestly I had no idea about that connection. My sister had a screen name called Auroran and at the time I wanted a pretty sparkly name too and I liked star rubies so that's what I came up with.
I just think that we have to remember that most mainstream organizations that claim to be for Israel often aren't. Sometimes those very same programs will end up giving money to the Palescumians or supporting a suicidal "peace process" for Israel. I believe we have to be smart and try to think two steps ahead of all enemies of the righteous, no matter who they are.
For example, all the people giving money to John Hagee who believe with all their heart they're helping Israel, don't know the money is going to evil self-hating organizations that support the suicidal "peace process". They should support an organization like JTF which is truly for Israel's interest.
I thought of another example, what about Ariel Sharon? Was he a Zionist when he gave away land to the Palescumians?
Sometimes you don't know who you can trust.
-
I believe that 99% of Jews would prefer living in Israel, but for the well-known and yet rarely acknowledged reasons they cannot live there:
First of all, we were expelled from our land.
Secondly, when we came back, we were on the verge of almost complete genocide.
Thirdly, we survided, but still have been a subject of an enormous pressure from both so called "friends" and open enemies.
Thus, if you see some Jews who demonstrate their support of Israel in some wicked way it is usually because of the wicked environment that they had to survive in for generations.
I can prove you step by step how expulsion of a small nation as the Jews from their homeland by Romans (yswz) turned the whole world upside down.
-
Yeah, the ancient Romans did some very evil things. What makes me very sad is to think that modern society is becoming a sickly reflection of that society in its greatest decline. Homosexuality and all forms of evil are running rampant.
Israel is a huge roadblock to the globalists. A strong, proud, nationalistic and Jewish Israel is an obstacle to evil people who believe in nothing but themselves and their own power, and want to unite and control the world under their grip.
The globalists are the true danger in the world to every proud nation and to every race and religion.
They're evil and very powerful. They're the billionaires that Chaim refers to. Nasty evil people don't play fair, they play dirty, even pretending to be "conservative", "right wing" or yes, even "Zionist", all to further their real goals. The real conservatives, right wingers, and Zionists may even be fooled by these con artists and follow their lead for a while. We need more people like Chaim to expose them.
I pray for people who are misguided, God knows that I don't understand everything as I should myself. My anger is directed toward the evil people at the top (who you pointed out are proportionately more Gentile a lot of times) rather than the common man or woman who might follow them without knowing their true nature.
-
Do you believe in the Torah both Written and Oral?
If no, then no. But if yes, how can you say that their is no Heven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud and is definitly something that Judaism does believe in. It is also connected to what all Jews must believe that their is reward for the rightious and punishment for the wicked.
Let's not mix everything up.
1) I do believe in the Written Torah as the divine inspiration
2) Talmud is a man-made collection of rabbinic commentaries, with some of which you may agree and with some you have the right to disagree. And I do disagree with some commentators. I may be too dumb to understand the wisdom of some of those sages, but the right to disagree is still there.
Therefore your statement “If no, then no” does not work here. I say, Torah – absolutely yes, Talmud – mostly yes.
Then you say “how can you say that there is no Heaven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud”.
Here is the trick: I can say that, because Torah doesn’t mention anywhere about Heaven or Hell.
If Maimonides talked about it in Talmud, with all due respect, that doesn’t make his opinion mandatory, since: 1) it is not in Torah, 2) it wasn't divinely inspired.
To continue on this, here is my hypothesis on where Maimonides got the idea of Heaven and Hell:
1) First, we were given Torah, which does not mention afterlife ANYWHERE. The dry bones to me are symbolic, embodying Jewish souls that will return to G-d from atheism and secularism.
2) Then when Greeks and Romans with their long and bloody occupation of the Land of Israel brought the myth of afterworld from the Greek mythology.
3) Then Jesus was influenced by the myth and included it in his preaching, since the concept was very popular throughout the empire.
4) Later Mohammed in order to “unite” everyone that he could, made Jesus a prophet and accepted the notion of afterworld as something very effective in rewarding or terrorizing people.
5) Later, Maimonides, who lived among Muslims, decides to comment on the notion of heaven and hell, since in Islam it had a major place and importance.
History, even the most intricate, does not change the original word of G-d.
What you just said is that in reality you do not believe in Judaism. Heven and Hell is one of the tenents of Judasim. Just believing in the Tannach, is not Judaism.
You should see the DivineInformation video on Torahanytime.com , or the New video "Rabbi Yossi Mizrachi: A Night in Kings Point Great Neck (04/01/2008)"
http://www.kolyakov.org/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
So, believing in Tanakh alone is not Judaism? OK.
Well, first of all, I said I believe Tanakh is the only divine inspiration. You, obviously, dont wanna tell me that Talmud is divinely inspired. I did say that Talmud is not 100% authority for me.
I hope that is clear.
Now. I have a question for you.
Who and when was first to introduce the idea of heaven and hell in Judaism?
A "next world" or 'world to come' whatever you want to call it, is referred to rather directly in the Torah.
-
Do you believe in the Torah both Written and Oral?
If no, then no. But if yes, how can you say that their is no Heven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud and is definitly something that Judaism does believe in. It is also connected to what all Jews must believe that their is reward for the rightious and punishment for the wicked.
Let's not mix everything up.
1) I do believe in the Written Torah as the divine inspiration
2) Talmud is a man-made collection of rabbinic commentaries, with some of which you may agree and with some you have the right to disagree. And I do disagree with some commentators. I may be too dumb to understand the wisdom of some of those sages, but the right to disagree is still there.
Therefore your statement “If no, then no” does not work here. I say, Torah – absolutely yes, Talmud – mostly yes.
Then you say “how can you say that there is no Heaven and Hell, if that is written in the Talmud”.
Here is the trick: I can say that, because Torah doesn’t mention anywhere about Heaven or Hell.
If Maimonides talked about it in Talmud, with all due respect, that doesn’t make his opinion mandatory, since: 1) it is not in Torah, 2) it wasn't divinely inspired.
To continue on this, here is my hypothesis on where Maimonides got the idea of Heaven and Hell:
1) First, we were given Torah, which does not mention afterlife ANYWHERE. The dry bones to me are symbolic, embodying Jewish souls that will return to G-d from atheism and secularism.
2) Then when Greeks and Romans with their long and bloody occupation of the Land of Israel brought the myth of afterworld from the Greek mythology.
3) Then Jesus was influenced by the myth and included it in his preaching, since the concept was very popular throughout the empire.
4) Later Mohammed in order to “unite” everyone that he could, made Jesus a prophet and accepted the notion of afterworld as something very effective in rewarding or terrorizing people.
5) Later, Maimonides, who lived among Muslims, decides to comment on the notion of heaven and hell, since in Islam it had a major place and importance.
History, even the most intricate, does not change the original word of G-d.
What you just said is that in reality you do not believe in Judaism. Heven and Hell is one of the tenents of Judasim. Just believing in the Tannach, is not Judaism.
You should see the DivineInformation video on Torahanytime.com , or the New video "Rabbi Yossi Mizrachi: A Night in Kings Point Great Neck (04/01/2008)"
http://www.kolyakov.org/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
So, believing in Tanakh alone is not Judaism? OK.
Well, first of all, I said I believe Tanakh is the only divine inspiration. You, obviously, dont wanna tell me that Talmud is divinely inspired. I did say that Talmud is not 100% authority for me.
I hope that is clear.
Now. I have a question for you.
Who and when was first to introduce the idea of heaven and hell in Judaism?
A "next world" or 'world to come' whatever you want to call it, is referred to rather directly in the Torah.
Really? Quote please.
-
If there's no existence beyond this world then what advantage is there to believing in God vs. atheism? Atheists can be moral and kind and do good works for others.
-
Brilliant question!
Well, to be very blunt, I am sorry to hear that the only reason why you believe in G-d is your “hope” that after your death you will be either rewarded or punished or maybe even both.
Such reason to believe can indeed be the only reason that you can have at your disposal, unless:
- You believe that the Jewish People were mass (more than 600,000 people!!!) witnesses of the miraculous “negotiation skills” of Moses, when he alone “kidnapped” a whole nation from the most powerful man on the planet at the time;
- You believe that the Jewish People were mass witnesses of the division of the sea, which doesn’t happen that often in nature :). Imagine how strong the emotional impact was on these people that thousands of years later their descendants still believe with the same might.
- You believe that the Jewish People were mass witnesses of receiving the Torah from some force that caused a yet unseen combination of natural cataclysms.
- You believe that Torah is too sophisticated for an army of the most intelligent people to design. Let alone in ancient times.
- You believe the Jewish Prophets who at a sort of press conference of those days declared that G-d appeared to them, who said among other things that Israel will be reestablished within one day and that the small nation will defeat forces outnumbering it many times.
To be continued shortly.
-
OK.
Let’s say we believe in existence of G-d, but what are the motives of following His laws?
You say it must be the afterworld for whatever reasons. Let’s make it clear – you said it, not G-d. His Words did not contain such statements.
You say one should believe in G-d because, if he/she does good, then he/she will party day and night in paradise and if he/she does bad, then he/she will get a nice tan in hell.
Let’s look at it from a practical standpoint. It would be a strong motive, IF the rewards or punishments were coming the next day after the deeds or at least after a short period of time.
Let’s face it: the majority of people will live at least 50 years and every other morning will be just like the one before it. Don’t you think that most people would postpone being “good” for the next day a few thousands of times?
So, if you come to following the laws of G-d not from just trusting him, but from “what’s in it for me”, then you really must be motivated by something more active and effective than something that can come about in 50 or 60 years.
Thus, you must ask yourself a question:
Is there a system that can reward or punish you during your life time?
Well, let me tell my answer:
Everything that I was trying and testing in my life had the same conclusion.
Torah (The Law) is the most effective “Life for Dummies” I have ever read.
You can forever forget the Self Help section in your local Barnes and Nobles.
Torah is the best self help book.
If you do what it prescribes (not the same as good deeds, since some good deeds are not always good), life will reward you, and if you go against it (and I certainly did), life will destroy you morally and sometimes physically.
Thank you for your attention.
-
Thanks for your answers, I was really interested in reading them. However, I have a few more points that maybe you can help me to understand.
First of all, there have been people who have committed murders and gotten away with them. For example did Hitler ever have to suffer any real pain for what he did? He ended his own life swiftly and never had to suffer as his victims did. How can a God of justice allow that to happen?
A lot of other Nazis got away via the rat lines and ended up working for foreign governments or living in peace, albeit in hiding, for the rest of their lives. How can God allow that?
What about people who are born with Tay-Sachs or some other lethal birth defect, like Sun Hudson who was born with thanatophoric dysplasia, or what about babies who die of SIDS? These lives were lived for what? Why would God allow that?
What about people who are abused to death, like babies put in microwaves, or children beaten to death? It hurts to think that they might have no comfort from God afterward.
I can agree with you on the fact that our focus should be on this life, we should follow God's commandments because He is God and we want to do His will. Heaven isn't my primary motive even though I'd like to think I can go there after I die. What we can do for others or what we do to make life better for people in this world, such as feeding hungry people, etc. is very important. However I just don't see how justice could be served without a continuation.
-
“First of all, there have been people who have committed murders and gotten away with them.”
Well, the Law clearly says we have to establish courts or any other form of collective justice system. The purpose of this is, obviously, to do justice and punish the wrongdoers here on earth. If it was the hell, where people would get punished, then why would we need courts and jails?
Secondly, there is a concept of revenge, according to which the wrongdoer should face severe reaction from all people who in any way felt affected by the wrong deed, if the justice system fails.
“For example did Hitler ever have to suffer any real pain for what he did? He ended his own life swiftly and never had to suffer as his “victims did. How can a G-d of justice allow that to happen?"
I think for fanatics like Hitler, the failure of his life was worse than the physical end of it.
I don’t think of G-d as a G-d of justice, but as a G-d of balance.
With Hitler, the Jews and Gentiles failed to do what is right to stop him. As you can see, I am not saying to kill him, because, I think, Hitler, though was a monster, wasn’t the whole problem. It was the opportunity that others gave him to graduate his ideas into something that he probably could not even dream of.
Hitler had to be stopped as a trend more than as an animal, even though many of us would personally stab him to death.
"A lot of other Nazis got away via the rat lines and ended up working for foreign governments or living in peace, albeit in hiding, for the rest of their lives. How can G-d allow that?"
How could we allow this to happen?
G-d gave us the Laws, we didn’t give Him anything.
G-d gave us life and said something like this: “enjoy it while it lasts, but for it to last, you have to follow my laws, which you have to enjoy and let your people enjoy them, even if it doesn’t last long for you.”
"What about people who are born with Tay-Sachs or some other lethal birth defect, like Sun Hudson who was born with thanatophoric dysplasia, or what about babies who die of SIDS? These lives were lived for what? Why would G-d allow that?"
Where decease can be prevented, I think it is the parents’ obligation to do it. I certainly don’t believe that G-d does it to send those poor babies’ souls into heaven.
"What about people who are abused to death, like babies put in microwaves, or children beaten to death? It hurts to think that they might have no comfort from G-d afterward."
I’d love to think that way, but it doesn’t mean it is true. I am not saying it is not, but I wasn’t told otherwise.
I know the parents have to be punished, and we as a society have to instill the highest level of morality and sanctity of life to our people for them not to even think of such actions.
"However I just don't see how justice could be served without a continuation."
Without continuation? You have to stop think from the egoistic standpoint.
Stop asking “what’s in it for me”. Start asking “what’s in it for my family, my kids, my people”.
You (or an average person) will live 50-60 years. Not long enough of a continuation?
OK. Then your children, if you raise them right, will carry on that continuation for another half a century. And then their kids will both remember your deeds and follow the example and “continue to continue”.
And finally, your people will bear such continuation at large.
Your good deeds have to continue and not your instant gratification.
Thanks again.
-
Thanks Zvulun for your thorough answers.
-
You are very welcome!