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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 01, 2020, 07:10:50 AM

Title: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 01, 2020, 07:10:50 AM
I just saw the grave of my maternal great great grandmother. There is a Star of David next to the birth year and a cross next to the death year. Does this imply that she was born a Jewess and died a Christian? Her first name was Eva, which is either a Christian name, or a Latin form of the name Hava.

I have lived as a Noahide for 11 years. Am I actually Jewish? I have no words to describe the doubts and stress I am experiencing right now.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 01, 2020, 10:18:43 AM
Maybe. Go to a beit din and make them do the archives. It happens alot today, 10 stories off the top of my head where people who thought they weren't Jews get into Judaism. Funniest I know an Arab in Israel wants to convert, pushes his wife to do it to and turns out shes already a Jew and he has to separate from her till they remarry.

I know I'm a Jew and still did the whole archives thing, they didn't really bother going past a family member who was a leader of the resistance in France, because the Nazis needed her to translate and she demanded to write she was a Jew even if it meant they had to do lots of paperwork all the time to keep her from being murdered. My grandmother remembers eating papers as a little girl and delivering baskets with fruits on top and papers on the bottom as a little girl. Really wanted the whole family tree but whatever they find one indisputable proof they sign and it's over, you have to pay certain genealogy societies for the whole tree.

Lol imagine you're her tikkun (repair, redemption, measure for measure correction) and Hashem really wanted to pull it off like this that the great grandson of an apostate hates what she left for. Could also mean nothing, but like worth a little investigation. Ride your emotions like a horse, it's much more comfortable than lying there while they trample you into the dirt. Hearts are valiant enough to do it. Make your brain useful to think of ways to keep you on the emotional horse instead of worries about the danger of equestrian activity.

If you are a Jew and therefore considered a child captive at birth, then if you kept the Noachide laws you were righteous in your life. Either way it's still you, maybe you can still eat your pizza, not that I can't make better with beef and hemp cheese, maybe you need to be more focused on not letting the tefillin touch the ground. Lol be happy at least your life isn't boring.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on November 01, 2020, 12:19:01 PM
Whoa! Could be!
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: ChabadKahanist on November 01, 2020, 01:43:46 PM
Ask an Orthodox Rabbi
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Zelhar on November 01, 2020, 05:53:33 PM
In the German language usually * marks the year of birth and † the year of death, for example from wikipedia:
Quote
Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (Aussprache: [ˈniːtʃə] oder [ˈniːtsʃə][1]; * 15. Oktober 1844 in Röcken; † 25. August 1900 in Weimar) war ein deutscher klassischer Philologe und Philosoph.


Your grandmother lived in the german speaking Austro-Hungarian empire presumably. I think the simplest explanation is that the star next to her name is just a star.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 02, 2020, 01:15:43 AM
In the German language usually * marks the year of birth and † the year of death, for example from wikipedia:

Your grandmother lived in the german speaking Austro-Hungarian empire presumably. I think the simplest explanation is that the star next to her name is just a star.

I need to research this further given its extreme halakhic implications.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on November 02, 2020, 12:49:31 PM
In the German language usually * marks the year of birth and † the year of death, for example from wikipedia:

Your grandmother lived in the german speaking Austro-Hungarian empire presumably. I think the simplest explanation is that the star next to her name is just a star.

Why would a star of david just be a star?  And what would it signify being there?  People put random stars on graves?
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 02, 2020, 12:53:06 PM
Why would a star of david just be a star?  And what would it signify being there?  People put random stars on graves?

Maybe. Birth. Not that I've ever seen. Especially not a Jewish star, so worth investigation.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 02, 2020, 10:36:37 PM
I received the following reply from my mentor, Dr. Michael Schulman:

B"H

Dear Robert,

This may be evidence that your maternal ancestor was a born Jew. Is there another person listed on the tombstone, with the same Star of David symbol? Her husband perhaps? What was her nationality? You should search out the documentation records of this ancestor. The first place to start would be the cemetery's records, and ask about the meaning of that symbol on her tombstone. And try to find out information about her siblings and mother, including her mother's maiden name and where she is buried.

What is the name of this cemetery, and where is it located?

Please keep me updated!!
Michael
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: ChabadKahanist on November 02, 2020, 11:01:33 PM
I received the following reply from my mentor, Dr. Michael Schulman:

B"H

Dear Robert,

This may be evidence that your maternal ancestor was a born Jew. Is there another person listed on the tombstone, with the same Star of David symbol? Her husband perhaps? What was her nationality?
You should search out the documentation records of this ancestor. The first place to start would be the cemetery's records, and ask about the meaning of that symbol on her tombstone.
And try to find out information about her siblings and mother, including her mother's maiden name and where she is buried.

What is the name of this cemetery, and where is it located?

Please keep me updated!!
Michaelovr
He is giving ypu good advice,but perhaps you should persue this with a rav who lives closer to  you are.tell me which country you are in & perhaps I might know of a rav near you
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 02, 2020, 11:05:42 PM
Star of David    International Symbol of Judaism.

https://www.msghn.org/usghn/symbols.html

The reasons for a cross and a star on a tomb seem to indicate one Jew when it happens: https://www.inquirer.com/philly/columnists/stu_bykofsky/stu-bykofsky-memorial-day-column-tombstone-catholic-jew-soldiers-20180525.html

Sometimes Masons put Jewish stars on their graves too, so maybe a Mason.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 02, 2020, 11:13:36 PM
He is giving ypu good advice,but perhaps you should persue this with a rav who lives closer to  you are.tell me which country you are in & perhaps I might know of a rav near you

Note that I showed a picture of the tombstone to Dr. Schulman and he is convinced it is a Star of David. Thank you for the offer. You know I am in Croatia, but I am going through so much emotional turmoil. I'm not ready for this information. First and foremost, I need to ask that specific cemetery about the meaning of that symbol, and I will only be able to visit it again in a few months.   
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 02, 2020, 11:23:48 PM
Note that I showed a picture of the tombstone to Dr. Schulman and he is convinced it is a Star of David. Thank you for the offer. You know I am in Croatia, but I am going through so much emotional turmoil. I'm not ready for this information. First and foremost, I need to ask that specific cemetery about the meaning of that symbol, and I will only be able to visit it again in a few months.

Every one of the masonic stars I know have other little things in them, so it's probably a Jewish star year. What emotional turmoil, try to see yourself from a neutral perspective, it's pretty cool how ironic and awesome what Hashem set up for you is.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 02, 2020, 11:30:40 PM
Every one of the masonic stars I know have other little things in them, so it's probably a Jewish star year. What emotional turmoil, try to see yourself from a neutral perspective, it's pretty cool how ironic and awesome what Hashem set up for you is.

It's not cool to me. My Gentile identity is very important to me and I ask you to respect that. If I am a Jew, my life would be over in many important ways. 
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: ChabadKahanist on November 02, 2020, 11:40:03 PM
Try Chabad in Zagreb they may be able to help http://zidovi.hr/
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 02, 2020, 11:44:26 PM
Try Chabad in Zagreb they may be able to help http://zidovi.hr/

I know the local Chabad Rabbi and met him a few times. In fact, Dr. Schulman knows him, too. But again, Hashem knows I need time.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: ChabadKahanist on November 03, 2020, 12:04:10 AM
I know the local Chabad Rabbi and met him a few times. In fact, Dr. Schulman knows him, too. But again, Hashem knows I need time.
Do what you think is best & consult with Dr, Schulman as how to proceed.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 03, 2020, 12:08:04 AM
Do what you think is best & consult with Dr, Schulman as how to proceed.

Thanks, I will.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 03, 2020, 12:58:51 AM
It's not cool to me. My Gentile identity is very important to me and I ask you to respect that. If I am a Jew, my life would be over in many important ways.

Whatever, respect that, it's not like I'm disrespecting you. Just saying it's still you no matter what you find, just wear a cap if you don't want people to know lol. It's obviously big, but I remember a story of a major Neo-Nazi who found out too and you know sometimes it just works out. It's cute to say Hashem doesn't give you tests that you can't handle, but I've come to see that besides being the best opportunity for personal growth, the things that happen to us are frequently those that would entertain us most. Just keep your sense of humor in whatever happens and you'll be able to perceive the signs that this was set up just for you.

Maybe she was like a Catholic satanist and thought that star was for the devil and put that to show she stopped. Don't deal with situations without a few giggles or they are harder to psychologically digest.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 03, 2020, 01:07:34 AM
Whatever, respect that, it's not like I'm disrespecting you. Just saying it's still you no matter what you find, just wear a cap if you don't want people to know lol. It's obviously big, but I remember a story of a major Neo-Nazi who found out too and you know sometimes it just works out. It's cute to say Hashem doesn't give you tests that you can't handle, but I've come to see that besides being the best opportunity for personal growth, the things that happen to us are frequently those that would entertain us most. Just keep your sense of humor in whatever happens and you'll be able to perceive the signs that this was set up just for you.

Maybe she was like a Catholic satanist and thought that star was for the devil and put that to show she stopped. Don't deal with situations without a few giggles or they are harder to psychologically digest.

I'm pretty sure you are violating some Jewish commandment or other by finding my identity crisis humorous. Please, man. Not now. 
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 03, 2020, 01:23:58 AM
I'm pretty sure you are violating some Jewish commandment or other by finding my identity crisis humorous. For God's sake, man. Not now.

I find generally everything humorous. Like right now after talking to like 20 doctors and them all laughing at me, finally found a brain infection specialist that showed I had type 1 herpes in the brain which is stealing my memories and killing me. It's pretty funny because one girl said she'd kill me if I gave her a disease, she got herpes I ditched her because I didn't know I had secret ninja herpes, but it turns out the herpes was gonna beat her to it. Also like I have to wear a mask now because it makes this demon flu of pain thing that is highly contageous, and I hate the concept of wearing masks for covid, and apparently I have a 1 in 2 million problem that makes me wear one, so I'm speaking against wearing a mask for covid while wearing one. It's been a hilarious week. Especially considering I'm just letting a 10 million dollar deal I absolutely need to be there to make work run its course with the nerds and their squabbles. Try explaining you have a really, really bad flu while still not looking weak. Gotta at least mention that hockey players give up more for their flus.

If I started taking things seriously there's about thirty people I would kill, and at least five are myself. Complaining is for people that can handle more drama, and earns you more. Laugh it off while it's still enjoyable and not a last ditch effort to save your sanity.

The funniest people always have the most suffering, and laugh at it, at least when it comes to comedians. A hobo suffering on the street is not funny, the suffering crushed him. Changing your identity completely, I've rode that pony alot of times, there are lingering memories of your life and friends you can't go back to, there's the insecurity of "what do I do now", and so many other traumatic emotional experiences. You're gonna have to find a way to deal with it or those things grow and take control of your behavior G-d forbid. If you don't like me "take nothing seriously" method, then also punching water and sand helps.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Zelhar on November 03, 2020, 12:04:11 PM
It may be significant or it may be just a stylistic choice of font.
Some types of asterisks have 6 spokes (or any low number almost) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk).


Why would a star of david just be a star?  And what would it signify being there?  People put random stars on graves?
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 04, 2020, 09:01:27 PM
I decided I can't wait a few months to visit the cemetery. This confusion is tearing me apart. I will try to find a phone number and ask them to explain the meaning of the star.


 
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 04, 2020, 09:20:27 PM
I decided I can't wait a few months to visit the cemetery. This confusion is tearing me apart. I will try to find a phone number and ask them to explain the meaning of the star.

If I am indeed a Gentile and someone thought it was a good idea to put a Jewish star on a Gentile grave, I curse him in this world and the next. Likewise, if I am a Jew and someone thought it would be a good idea to put a Gentile cross on a Jewish grave, I curse him, too.

Well like what if the dude totally like that star or like she was a total fan of Judaism but didn't want problems for her family and didn't really understand any issue with the religion so she put it. If you're really a Jew you're gonna have to watch out with those curses and only deliver them on 100% certainty of guilt and a need to curse them in order to stop them from further evil. We can't interrogate the dead to know if we should curse them in this case, unless you find her dairy or whoever put it you don't know the meaning. If you are a Jew, this isn't a joke, Hashem cares.

Not saying that every curse you make will happen, sometimes it won't happen at all like with King David's curses on his enemies, which all went on his sons and not his enemies that Hashem sent as a kindness to make him more King Davidy. Also, you don't curse ignorant people.

With the smallest bit of information I can probably get you the owner's personal cell in a few minutes...
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 04, 2020, 09:58:26 PM
Bull. They should have known and they were expected to know. They had just enough time to become expert in every other stupid thing in their life. I curse anyone who caused me this anguish.

This is forbidden. You accept pain with love and you only curse for the honor or work of Hashem or it's egotistical and lowering your spiritual level. For... us? We act for Hashem's honor which lowers our ego, never ours. If you're talking hundreds of years ago, they had time to spend two hours washing clothes all day. Most Jews back then didn't have access to a fraction of what Jews today do, and it was rare for gentiles to. It's not fair to condemn them without proof of anything, which you don't know in the first place.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 04, 2020, 10:23:56 PM
No. Since there are two sets of Divine Commandments, I can't ACT if I don't know WHAT I AM. This is beyond pain. It is a perversion which prevents me from following the commandments I am supposed to follow, whatever those may be.

There is one set of commandments. You are either a Noachide or a Jew considered capitve at birth, and are obligated to keep the Noachide laws. You do not know if you are Jewish and are forbidden to keep Torah law to some extent. Until you know, you're fine, delaying knowing might be another issue. What you are doing now is righteous. Hashem doesn't ask anyone to do more than they can.

And finally "Most people start their search for the divine by losing their sense of humor" Noah Ben Shea, Jacob's Ladder. - Don't.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Aces High on November 05, 2020, 12:59:22 PM
Cool discovery.  Even if your great-great grandmother were Jewish, it's only about 6% of your bloodline.  I would guess there are thousands of non -Jews with Jewish lineage somewhere in their family tree.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 05, 2020, 01:04:57 PM
The cemetery said they do not know the meaning of the star. Furthermore, they said the cemetery does not decide which symbols are put on the grave. The owner of the grave has exclusive authority to put whatever he wants.

I will call the local priest and ask about the certificates of baptism. I still need to find my older maternal ancestors, but for now, I have no definitive proof that I am a Jew.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 05, 2020, 02:15:43 PM
The cemetery said they do not know the meaning of the star. Furthermore, they said the cemetery does not decide which symbols are put on the grave. The owner of the grave has exclusive authority to put whatever he wants.

I will call the local priest and ask about the certificates of baptism. I still need to find my older maternal ancestors, but for now, I have no definitive proof that I am a Jew.

Looks like you got more 'vestigating. Hashem always seems to make things fun.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 07, 2020, 12:45:17 PM
The priest said he does not know the specific meaning of the star. He confirmed that the owner of the grave can put whatever he wants. Furthermore, he said that he does not have the older certificates of baptism. The municipality has them, and I will need to request official copies. I don't know how long this process will last.

Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Zelhar on November 07, 2020, 03:23:42 PM
Do you have the equivalent of Standesamt in Croatia?

The priest said he does not know the specific meaning of the star. He confirmed that the owner of the grave can put whatever he wants. Furthermore, he said that he does not have the older certificates of baptism. The municipality has them, and I will need to request official copies. I don't know how long this process will last.

Hashem wants a broken spirit. He got what he wanted. As for me, my dream of living a joyful life, of serving God with happiness...that dream is gone.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 09, 2020, 11:17:38 PM
Do you have the equivalent of Standesamt in Croatia?

Yes of course.

The municipality said they started keeping records in 1888. Since Eva was born before that, I can't get the certificate of baptism from them. However, I can get the death certificate, and I should be able to get it soon. 
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 10, 2020, 10:13:03 AM
The death certificate does not give any information about her religion. To find the older documentation, I need to visit the National Archives, which has documents from the beginning of the 13th century. My hope is that I will be able to find the certificates of baptism there.

Because the star may simply indicate the year of birth, I will continue to follow the 7 commandments for now. I refuse to believe that God would hold that against me.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 10, 2020, 12:41:01 PM
The death certificate does not give any information about her religion. To find the older documentation, I need to visit the National Archives, which has documents from the beginning of the 13th century. My hope is that I will be able to find the certificates of baptism there.

Because the star may simply indicate the year of birth, I will continue to follow the 7 commandments for now. I refuse to believe that God would hold that against me.

Yes, and it would be a major issue if you started dressing like a Satmar guy when you found the symbol.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 10, 2020, 11:47:07 PM
My beloved teacher wrote something so reassuring that it made me cry:

B"H

Hello Robert,

I noted that you wrote, "I refuse to believe that G-d would hold that against me."
You stated that correctly, because the truth is that He would not. It's not necessary to refuse to believe that something is not the case, when it's a know fact that it's not. You can just accept the fact that it's not.

For example, you don't have to refuse to believe that wood is metal. You can just accept the fact that wood is not metal, and not be conflicted about that issue, because that's the truth of the matter.

Have a good rest of your week!
Michael
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: briann on November 11, 2020, 12:10:32 AM
I just saw the grave of my maternal great great grandmother. There is a Star of David next to the birth year and a cross next to the death year. Does this imply that she was born a Jewess and died a Christian? Her first name was Eva, which is either a Christian name, or a Latin form of the name Hava.

I have lived as a Noahide for 11 years. Am I actually Jewish? I have no words to describe the doubts and stress I am experiencing right now.

Do you know when she died?  Are there any other symbols?

Typically, only men had the Star of David on their graves during the turn of the century, and women had a candelabra.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Israel Chai on November 11, 2020, 12:53:17 AM
Do you know when she died?  Are there any other symbols?

Typically, only men had the Star of David on their graves during the turn of the century, and women had a candelabra.

Typically, no one in recent millenia uses that star for anything but Jewish graves, and add some pretty things to it and some Masons use it. They didn't have Jews for Stupidity and all that stuff yet.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on November 12, 2020, 02:20:54 AM
Do you know when she died?  Are there any other symbols?

Typically, only men had the Star of David on their graves during the turn of the century, and women had a candelabra.

I don't wish to share the year publicly. There is another big cross that dominates the grave. It is hard to see the small Star of David, but it's there.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on October 09, 2021, 07:24:25 PM
About a year ago I found a disturbing implication I might be Jewish. I believe I now have an authoritative explanation. In Croatian, a cross before a year indicates the year of death and is usually used together with a star which indicates the year of birth. The source is "Croatian Orthography" by Babić and Moguš, 2011, page 113. I still think using religious symbols in this way is incredibly stupid, but I am relieved.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Dovid_2 on October 09, 2021, 08:45:56 PM
About a year ago I found a disturbing implication I might be Jewish. I believe I now have an authoritative explanation. In Croatian, a cross before a year indicates the year of death and is usually used together with a star which indicates the year of birth. The source is "Croatian Orthography" by Babić and Moguš, 2011, page 113. I still think using religious symbols in this way is incredibly stupid, but I am relieved.
Here is my own experience with someone who became affiliated with Judaism from your part of the world.

The man was a Slovenian with a father who was perhaps Jewish, but only in part.  The man worked as a metal machinist when Slovenia was a Soviet satellite, and then later was in the military, but he had antisocial traits which caused him to be cast out in one way or another, until he finally 'embraced' Judaism and somehow convinced the authorities to let him emigrate as a Jew.

He married an Israeli woman, of Iraqi extraction, but of a racial minority that perhaps resembles Europeans more than Semites (maybe Yazidi?).  She was undoubtedly Jewish.  She married him because he was uncircumcised, and remains so, and I assume that the novelty excited her, because she remains with him until today, eventhough he is openly unfaithful to her.

Now, most importantly, you asked how can one truly knoe if you're Jewish...  Well, here's my test...  This Slovenian man's son is an antisemite, so something inherent in this mans nature, or perhaps the subconscious antisemitism crept through during this boys adolescence.

In his aging state, the Slovenian more and more disassociates with Jews and seeks to reconciliate with Christians.  He loves Putin.

That said, this man's efforts to "connect" with his Jewish roots shouldn't be taken lightly.  This man speaks fluent hebrew - better than me, and both my parents speak Hebrew.

Now I don't know you personally, you could very well be Jewish, but before you do anything drastic, I just implore you to look deep within your soul and ask yourself this question:  If you had a son - would your son be an antisemite.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on October 09, 2021, 08:54:06 PM
Here is my own experience with someone who became affiliated with Judaism from your part of the world.

The man was a Slovenian with a father who was perhaps Jewish, but only in part.  The man worked as a metal machinist when Slovenia was a Soviet satellite, and then later was in the military, but he had antisocial traits which caused him to be cast out in one way or another, until he finally 'embraced' Judaism and somehow convinced the authorities to let him emigrate as a Jew.

He married an Israeli woman, of Iraqi extraction, but of a racial minority that perhaps resembles Europeans more than Semites (maybe Yazidi?).  She was undoubtedly Jewish.  She married him because he was uncircumcised, and remains so, and I assume that the novelty excited her, because she remains with him until today, eventhough he is openly unfaithful to her.

Now, most importantly, you asked how can one truly knoe if you're Jewish...  Well, here's my test...  This Slovenian man's son is an antisemite, so something inherent in this mans nature, or perhaps the subconscious antisemitism crept through during this boys adolescence.

In his aging state, the Slovenian more and more disassociates with Jews and seeks to reconciliate with Christians.  He loves Putin.

That said, this man's efforts to "connect" with his Jewish roots shouldn't be taken lightly.  This man speaks fluent hebrew - better than me, and both my parents speak Hebrew.

Now I don't know you personally, you could very well be Jewish, but before you do anything drastic, I just implore you to look deep within your soul and ask yourself this question:  If you had a son - would your son be an antisemite.

The answer to your question is no, my son would not be an antisemite. For generations, all my maternal ancestors have identified as Gentiles and my Gentile identity is very important to me. I accepted the 7 Noahide commandments in 2009. I plan to marry a Noahide woman and raise my children to be Noahides. 
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Dovid_2 on October 09, 2021, 09:33:53 PM
The answer to your question is no, my son would not be an antisemite. For generations, all my maternal ancestors have identified as Gentiles and my Gentile identity is very important to me. I accepted the 7 Noahide commandments in 2009. I plan to marry a Noahide woman and raise my children to be Noahides.
I would not suggest you get circumcised.  You will not get a good result unless you travel to somewhere where there are experienced doctors who know how to perform the operation on an adult.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on October 09, 2021, 09:41:33 PM
I would not suggest you get circumcised.  You will not get a good result unless you travel to somewhere where there are experienced doctors who know how to perform the operation on an adult.

I have no Torah Law obligation to get circumcised, and no desire to.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Dovid_2 on October 09, 2021, 10:50:00 PM
I have no Torah Law obligation to get circumcised, and no desire to.
Then I will grant you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are in the minority of those who are uncircumcised but do not 'spend the days and nights lusting after women', as stated by a great Jewish sage of the 13th century, the son-in-law of Don Astroc des Gabbai, whos works are only partially extant.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on October 09, 2021, 11:02:43 PM
Then I will grant you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are in the minority of those who are uncircumcised but do not 'spend the days and nights lusting after women', as stated by a great Jewish sage of the 13th century, the son-in-law of Don Astroc des Gabbai, whos works are only partially extant.

Since Jews and Gentiles have different souls and bodies, comparing them is a false equivalence. I moderate JTF's group on Telegram, a Noahide subreddit and a YouTube channel with more than 44K subscribers. I am also the director of my own company and the caretaker of my injured mother. Tractate Kesubot 59b says that idleness leads to lewdness and corruption and thank God I am not idle.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Dovid_2 on October 09, 2021, 11:37:11 PM
Since Jews and Gentiles have different souls and bodies, comparing them is a false equivalence.
Noahide souls emanate from klipat noga -- the same place as Jewish souls.  I'm not trying to pin you down or anything, but it makes no sense to say that our bodies are different -- that's akin to saying that Jews are aliens.  Anyways, have a good week and I wish you luck in life.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Hrvatski Noahid on October 09, 2021, 11:45:03 PM
Noahide souls emanate from klipat noga -- the same place as Jewish souls.  I'm not trying to pin you down or anything, but it makes no sense to say that our bodies are different -- that's akin to saying that Jews are aliens.  Anyways, have a good week and I wish you luck in life.

My mentor, Rabbi Dr. Michael Schulman, says that upon the conversion of a Gentile, with his/her immersion in a mikva for the purpose of conversion, two things happen:
a. His/her Gentile body is changed by God into a Jewish body.
b. Simultaneously, the new Jewish body is invested by God with a Jewish soul.

Obviously, then, we are different. Thanks for the discussion and be well.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on October 10, 2021, 12:30:07 AM
Here is my own experience with someone who became affiliated with Judaism from your part of the world.

The man was a Slovenian with a father who was perhaps Jewish, but only in part.  The man worked as a metal machinist when Slovenia was a Soviet satellite, and then later was in the military, but he had antisocial traits which caused him to be cast out in one way or another, until he finally 'embraced' Judaism and somehow convinced the authorities to let him emigrate as a Jew.

He married an Israeli woman, of Iraqi extraction, but of a racial minority that perhaps resembles Europeans more than Semites (maybe Yazidi?).  She was undoubtedly Jewish.  She married him because he was uncircumcised, and remains so, and I assume that the novelty excited her, because she remains with him until today, eventhough he is openly unfaithful to her.

Now, most importantly, you asked how can one truly knoe if you're Jewish...  Well, here's my test...  This Slovenian man's son is an antisemite, so something inherent in this mans nature, or perhaps the subconscious antisemitism crept through during this boys adolescence.

In his aging state, the Slovenian more and more disassociates with Jews and seeks to reconciliate with Christians.  He loves Putin.

That said, this man's efforts to "connect" with his Jewish roots shouldn't be taken lightly.  This man speaks fluent hebrew - better than me, and both my parents speak Hebrew.

Now I don't know you personally, you could very well be Jewish, but before you do anything drastic, I just implore you to look deep within your soul and ask yourself this question:  If you had a son - would your son be an antisemite.

What a ridiculous question to ask him.   Your anecdote means nothing.  There are gentiles who are kind to Jews and gentiles who hate them. 
Even the kids of some Jews can become Jew-haters.  Just look at "Peace Now" and other losers. 
There are plenty of former gentiles who converted to Judaism and their kids are not Jew-haters and are Torah observant and God-fearing Jews.  You are drawing crazy conclusions from the story of one idiot.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Dovid_2 on October 10, 2021, 11:57:57 AM
What a ridiculous question to ask him.   Your anecdote means nothing.  There are gentiles who are kind to Jews and gentiles who hate them. 
Even the kids of some Jews can become Jew-haters.  Just look at "Peace Now" and other losers. 
There are plenty of former gentiles who converted to Judaism and their kids are not Jew-haters and are Torah observant and God-fearing Jews.  You are drawing crazy conclusions from the story of one idiot.
I'm not playing your game...  Go and fight with someon else.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on October 10, 2021, 12:02:36 PM
I'm not playing your game...  Go and fight with someon else.

No game being played.  Pointing out terrible logic.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Dovid_2 on October 10, 2021, 12:21:41 PM
No game being played.  Pointing out terrible logic.
I'm going to lay low here for a while, you have invoked collective ire against me, and I've seen this played out before against others during my time lurking on this forum, and I'll not have it done to me.  So go ahead, everyone mock and ridicule me for the amount of time it takes to satiate your cupidity.  I'll be back in a month or two.
Title: Re: Am I Jewish?
Post by: Kahane-Was-Right BT on October 10, 2021, 06:37:19 PM
I'm going to lay low here for a while, you have invoked collective ire against me, and I've seen this played out before against others during my time lurking on this forum, and I'll not have it done to me.  So go ahead, everyone mock and ridicule me for the amount of time it takes to satiate your cupidity.  I'll be back in a month or two.

Collective ire?  From whom?  I merely disagreed with you.  You are reading too much into it and spinning tales about what happened to "others" here.    Your lies on behalf of (I probably know which person) are not appreciated.