JTF.ORG Forum
Save Western Civilization => Save Serbia => Topic started by: Jasmina on February 18, 2009, 04:27:55 PM
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http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/02/gates-of-vienna-news-feed-2162009.html#9870
Belgrade, 13 Feb. (AKI) - Serbia’s northern Vojvodina province has triggered a heated national debate by demanding more regional autonomy, which opposition and some members of the ruling coalition fear is a bid for future separatism.
Of Serbia’s 7.5 million population, some two million live in the province of Vojvodina, which already enjoys a degree of autonomy, including local government and a parliament with limited competences.
But local parliament recently adopted a new statute for the province, which provides for more legislative powers, financial independence, the right to conclude international agreements and to have its own diplomatic missions abroad.
About one half of Vojvodina's population are Serbs, while the rest is made up of more than 20 other ethnic groups, including 150,000 Hungarians. Minorities have their own media, schools and even a university in the Hungarian language.
However, local politicians, including some Serbs, have been calling for more political and financial independence from Belgrade and their demands have been defined in the new statute which still has to be approved by the Serbian parliament in Belgrade.
The sensitive issue has triggered a stormy debate, because Serbia is still fighting a diplomatic battle to retain control over their former southern province of Kosovo, whose majority ethnic Albanians declared independence a year ago.
The new statute enjoys the support of pro-European president Boris Tadic and his Democratic Party, which has a strong electoral base in Vojvodina.
However, opposition politicians, including former prime minister Vojislav Kostunica, have warned that the new statute was a first step towards separatism and further disintegration of the country.
Kostunica said the statute was “anti constitutional” and called on MPs to “pass the test of patriotism” and reject the statute in the parliament.
He further accused Tadic’s ruling coalition of “deliberately undermining the country’s constitutional order and Serbia itself”.
But Ivica Dacic, whose Socialist Party of Serbia is a member of the ruling coalition, said his deputies would vote against the statute. “The SPS is not against Vojvodina's autonomy, but is against the creation of another state in Serbia,” he said.
On the other hand, Balint Pastor the leader of the Alliance of Vojvodina Hungarians, said his party would quit the ruling coalition if the statute was killed in parliament.
A similar position was taken by Nenad Canak, a Serb, whose League of Vojvodina Social Democrats has spearheaded the drive for more autonomy.
The situation was further complicated by the Holy Synod of the Serbian Orthodox Church, who wrote to Tadic in order to kill the statute in parliament because it was “destructive for Serbia”.
The call provoked a wave of criticism from the statute supporters and non-governmental organisations, pointing out that the Church was separated from the state and should not interfere in political affairs.
As the debate has become more heated, Tadic has said that same parts of the statute might be revaluated, but its supporters vowed not to consent to any changes.
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Dangerous development.
Kerber presented a good analysis of Vojvodina problem here:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,30824.msg320855.html#msg320855
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Dangerous development.
Kerber presented a good analysis of Vojvodina problem here:
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,30824.msg320855.html#msg320855
Yes, I remeber those threads...Here is another one
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,24930.0.html
I opened this topic because this was discussed some days ago in Serbian Parlament...
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So if I understand correctly, some Vojvodina Serbs want the independence themselves?
(They are majority in Vojvodina and it can't legally declare independence without their approvement)
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I know self-hating so called Serbs from Vojvodina who want Autonomy! I have only disrespect for them!
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What is their argument? Do they consider themselves a different nation from the rest of Serbia?
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I don't think so, no! But they want to "live better"...They think that Belgrade is guilty for almost everything!
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to sum it up...they are imbecils. every nation has them...we tend to have them a lot in the last 20 years
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Ex German ambassador Zobel said once that Serbia have to "forget the Kosovo case and to prepare for Vojvodina and Raska region".After that,German Government removed him from the position,but not for being hostile toward Serbia,but for telling the truth of ongoing developments before its time.
The occupation of Vojvodina is going to happen.It will be separated from Serbia.
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Here is another important fact that some of you might not know why Germans want Vojvodina to separate. I almost forgot to mention it earlier:
VOJVODINA HAS SOME OF THE MOST FERTILE LAND IN ENTIRE EUROPE. SINCE GERMANY DID NOT SUCCEED IN KEEPING UKRAINE'S FERTILE LAND IN WWII, THEY MIGHT AS WELL GO FOR THE SECOND BEST SPOT. IT IS BELIEVED THAT SHOULD VOJVODINA AGRICULTURE BE PUT INTO FOOL SPEED AND PRODUCTION, IT COULD FEED HALF OF EUROPE.............SOUNDS LIKE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ TO ME.
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About one half of Vojvodina's population are Serbs, while the rest is made up of more than 20 other ethnic groups, including 150,000 Hungarians. Minorities have their own media, schools and even a university in the Hungarian language.
That's false!Little more then 70% are Serbs.Today,even maybe 75%,because of Hungarian emigration.
The rest considering minorities is the truth.They have the best conditions in the world.No European country gives the rights to its minorities like foolish Serbia.
However, local politicians, including some Serbs, have been calling for more political and financial independence from Belgrade and their demands have been defined in the new statute which still has to be approved by the Serbian parliament in Belgrade.
Those Serbs don't have a big political power in the province(about 5% of voters).And those "Serbs" are gathered in one party called "League of Social Democrats of Vojvodina".Leaders is a traitor Serbian,but majority of the members in the party are Croats,Hungarians and other minorities.
The new statute enjoys the support of pro-European president Boris Tadic and his Democratic Party, which has a strong electoral base in Vojvodina.
Yes.His Democratic Party is the creator of secession(as good EU servant) and foreign economical occupation of Vojvodina.His party is on power-on Republic's and on Province's level.
However, opposition politicians, including former prime minister Vojislav Kostunica, have warned that the new statute was a first step towards separatism and further disintegration of the country.
Kostunica said the statute was �anti constitutional� and called on MPs to �pass the test of patriotism� and reject the statute in the parliament.
He further accused Tadic�s ruling coalition of �deliberately undermining the country�s constitutional order and Serbia itself�.
He should NEVER speak again!This imbecile is responsible for current situation.He ruled with Democratic Party in coalition and brought them a huge power,so huge that today they can create another "state" of our part of the country.
But Ivica Dacic, whose Socialist Party of Serbia is a member of the ruling coalition, said his deputies would vote against the statute. �The SPS is not against Vojvodina's autonomy, but is against the creation of another state in Serbia,� he said.
Haha...This little pig-faced man talked before elections that he won't go with Tadic,but he eventually did.He received a lot of money during Kostunica's mandate and was caught.Now he is going to do whatever they tell him.He is going to support.
On the other hand, Balint Pastor the leader of the Alliance of Vojvodina Hungarians, said his party would quit the ruling coalition if the statute was killed in parliament.
This is Hungarian separatist leader.He should be expelled from the state.
A similar position was taken by Nenad Canak, a Serb, whose League of Vojvodina Social Democrats has spearheaded the drive for more autonomy.
I already have told who he is-paid man from G.Soros and his NGOs.He already made so called "Vojvodina's passport". (http://arhiva.kurir-info.co.yu/arhiva/2007/Septembar/07/Slike/Thumb_001PASOSPicture%20001.jpg)
The situation was further complicated by the Holy Synod of the Serbian Orthodox Church, who wrote to Tadic in order to kill the statute in parliament because it was �destructive for Serbia�.
Yeah...They've remembered to say something when it's already too late.They are silenced for 9 years...But it's important that they've signed Ravena Document recognizing Pope as their "First Patriarch" and "first among the equals".The Church is very weak,it's divided on two wings.The first and bigger one is ecumenical,pro-EU,liberal,fallen one,and the second is truly devoted to G-d,anti-EU,anti-liberal(Artemije,Filaret,Amfilohije).Leader og ecumenical liberal,pro-Vatican wing is bishop Grigorije with all other bishops.
The call provoked a wave of criticism from the statute supporters and non-governmental organisations, pointing out that the Church was separated from the state and should not interfere in political affairs.
Of course they are going to be critical,beacause they know that even weakened the Church has great influence,so they are afraid that their plans might not be completed.
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I dont think there will be a seperation of vojvodina, i dont see how they could do it
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I dont think there will be a seperation of vojvodina, i dont see how they could do it
I wrote about it,and if you live in Serbia,you can understand it very easily.
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Here is another important fact that some of you might not know why Germans want Vojvodina to separate. I almost forgot to mention it earlier:
VOJVODINA HAS SOME OF THE MOST FERTILE LAND IN ENTIRE EUROPE. SINCE GERMANY DID NOT SUCCEED IN KEEPING UKRAINE'S FERTILE LAND IN WWII, THEY MIGHT AS WELL GO FOR THE SECOND BEST SPOT. IT IS BELIEVED THAT SHOULD VOJVODINA AGRICULTURE BE PUT INTO FOOL SPEED AND PRODUCTION, IT COULD FEED HALF OF EUROPE.............SOUNDS LIKE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ TO ME.
exactly!!did you know albanians are slowly moving to vojvodina!(not in big numbers for now but!)
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What is their argument? Do they consider themselves a different nation from the rest of Serbia?
Not yet, but, following examples from the past (with Montenegro as the most recent case) they (those "autonomy freaks") will consider that in future.
Not the first time, it happened before, those so-called "provinces" were becoming states, than they became "nations", than got an "independent" state, than got a language etc.
The same happened in Montenegro, earlier in Bosnia and that nation-mix FYRO Macedonia.
It's now happening in Vojvodina "republika".
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Untill there is a strong dictatorship in Serbia, the country will keep getting smaller. I'm sorry to say that, but just like Russians, the only time that Serbia was actually in good condition is during a dictatorshiip. Sad but true. Serbs need to be told what to do instead of doing it by themselves.
Will Vojvodina separate? I am afraid that it is very possible untill Tadic and his pro-eu group is overthown.
Even worse than that is the fact that Serbs, although extremely intelligent (and very attractive), are their own worst enemy. Why? Because eventhough the intelligence level is high, they do not know how to use it. That's the same thing if they were stupid.
In the last 5 years, the government in Serbia has been trying to push the same school system as it is in the US. I am personally offended by that because it wil take the intelligence level down. Hearing from my cousins (other than those who are pro-EU), I can tell that the school in Serbia is more than twice as hard as it is in the US from 1st-12th grade. To try to lower that is a real disgrace and embarrasment. No offense to those who went to high school in the US.
Perhaps it is another way to dominate Serbs by trying to make them retarted, starting at the early age. So f'n sad.
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serbs are individualists,we all have they're own ideas,and we think our way is better then others,so everybody has an aspiration to be a leader,the product is what we see today...
Dunno bout that dumbing down the schools,if its true,its done recently(few years),but its probably true.
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We discussed that a long time ago.. Were there new developments since then? Is the EU-promoted plan of "regionalization" (i.e. further division of Serbia into puppet states) still alive? Or it was finally rejected by Serbs and thrown into the dustbin of history?
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We discussed that a long time ago.. Were there new developments since then? Is the EU-promoted plan of "regionalization" (i.e. further division of Serbia into puppet states) still alive? Or it was finally rejected by Serbs and thrown into the dustbin of history?
Vojvodina got a new "status" a few days ago. Our politicians assure us that everything is going to be ok, but we know better. Someone decided that Serbia must be as weak as possible, and their plan works.
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We discussed that a long time ago.. Were there new developments since then? Is the EU-promoted plan of "regionalization" (i.e. further division of Serbia into puppet states) still alive? Or it was finally rejected by Serbs and thrown into the dustbin of history?
Vojvodina got a new "status" a few days ago. Our politicians assure us that everything is going to be ok, but we know better. Someone decided that Serbia must be as weak as possible, and their plan works.
That's bad news.. And what new advantages does it give to Vojvodina? What can they now do independetly of Belgrade?
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We discussed that a long time ago.. Were there new developments since then? Is the EU-promoted plan of "regionalization" (i.e. further division of Serbia into puppet states) still alive? Or it was finally rejected by Serbs and thrown into the dustbin of history?
Vojvodina got a new "status" a few days ago. Our politicians assure us that everything is going to be ok, but we know better. Someone decided that Serbia must be as weak as possible, and their plan works.
That's bad news.. And what new advantages does it give to Vojevodina? What can they now do independetly of Belgrade?
I don't know exactly, but they have a lot of new rights. I think they even have a capital of Vojvodina now. It's not important what they have now, it's what they'll have in the future. Their politicians are already saying that this is a "good start".
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Who are their politicians? Are they Hungarians or Serbs? As far as I know, Serbs are the majority in Vojvodina?
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Who are their politicians? Are they Hungarians or Serbs? As far as I know, Serbs are the majority in Vojvodina?
Serbs are the majority, but the Hungarians are majority in North Vojvodina. But I don't think that they would join to Hungary again. I think Hungarians don't want any fights anymore. They are not like Kosovars.
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Who are their politicians? Are they Hungarians or Serbs? As far as I know, Serbs are the majority in Vojvodina?
Serbs are the majority, but the Hungarians are majority in North Vojvodina. But I don't think that they would join to Hungary again. I think Hungarians don't want any fights anymore. They are not like Kosovars.
That's probably true but they may want independence. If even Montenegrins (who are hardly different from Serbs) voted for independence, why the residents of Vojvodina can't do it? I guess it is all consequences of liberal pro-EU propaganda.
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Most of them are traitor Serbs, but every Hungarian politician is pushing for more autonomy also. Hungarians won't fight, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't like to secede. There is war waged against Serbia, a psychological war. Just like against Israel.
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I hope they will live in peace. They sometimes just remember about "Greater-Hungary" but the majority doesn't want fights anymore. They are still better than Albanians, Croats, Bosnians. Hungary has enough problems in Hungary.
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Who are their politicians? Are they Hungarians or Serbs? As far as I know, Serbs are the majority in Vojvodina?
It's not the right question,because the Hungarians can't influence on it.I wrote about who is in control.It's Democratic Party led by Serbs - Boris Tadic on republic's level,and Bojan Pajtic on provincial level.Democratic Party is destroying our country.They just brought every thing I mentioned recently on this topic,including the Vojvodina's academy of science and arts.Also,it got the capitol city - Novi Sad.
The process is on going and it can be stopped only if people start a rebellion,but that's not possible because the majority of people are slaves who needs to preserve their jobs and therefore the majority is not able to rise its voice.
This is what happens when people allow to be led by EU criminals.Sheeps...
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What are the EU plans with regard to Serbia? Do they agree with the very idea of Serbian statehood? If yes, what territory are they agree to "grant" to Serbian state?
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This is what happens when people allow to be led by EU criminals.Sheeps...
I think people didnt have choice , same pattern is used everywhere around the globe , you will get EU puppet president one way or another , serbs unfortunately got it hard ways - after wars and NATO bombs , system is too strong now and there is no way to stop it :'(
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Map_of_Serbia_(Vojvodina).PNG)
(http://www.americanhungarianfederation.org/images/vojvodina_ethnic_map1996.gif)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Vojvodina_districts3.PNG)
(http://www.unc.edu/~wmckinne/HungariansinVojvodina.jpg)
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This is what happens when people allow to be led by EU criminals.Sheeps...
I think people didnt have choice , same pattern is used everywhere around the globe , you will get EU puppet president one way or another , serbs unfortunately got it hard ways - after wars and NATO bombs , system is too strong now and there is no way to stop it :'(
There is always a choice and there can't be any justification to choose evil and occupation.Never...
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What are the EU plans with regard to Serbia? Do they agree with the very idea of Serbian statehood? If yes, what territory are they agree to "grant" to Serbian state?
They've created very bad situation here already.Our yearly budget is financed with 4-5 billions of dollars from IMF every year.The country is in huge debt.It's the matter of time when the hole system is going to collapse.They are are going to raise the taxation and to invent new taxes on every possible and impossible thing as an excuse to repay the debts they've maid.In the mean time,on one side "our" leaders goes to Vatican showing that the Vatican "supports" Serbian integrity on its hole territory and the Church is being led by ecumenists promoting the "unification of all Christianity" aka falling under the booth of Rome.
They are going to continue worsening the situation(including the secessions of some parts of the state) until the people cries for the pope as its savior.Already there are some voices calling that "it would be better if we are loyal to Rome".
PS
To add...In the City of Nis the church is being built called "Czar Konstantin".It has to be built till the year of 2013.In the 2013 the plan is that pope comes to Nis,in this church,where the "unification of Christianity" should be declared.If that happens as they are planning,the true Orthodox Church and its believers will separate from the "new alliance".