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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kananga on October 19, 2007, 11:39:27 AM

Title: Circumcision
Post by: Kananga on October 19, 2007, 11:39:27 AM
Circumcision is one of the covenantial mitzvot, along with Shabbat and Tefillin.  But just as many jews do not don tefillin or observe Shabbat, do you believe that circumcision has lost it's importance in the modern age as well?

Some people argue that cirucumcision is cruel practice that should not be imposed upon children who are too young to make decisions for themselves.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: kellymaureen on October 19, 2007, 11:43:16 AM
Quote
Some people argue that cirucumcision is cruel practice that should not be imposed upon children who are too young to make decisions for themselves.



People who say that are ridiculous, my son was circumcised right after he was born, he doesnt remember the proceedure and has no issues or fears or ill effects. 
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 19, 2007, 12:09:04 PM
and it can prevent AIDS.yes it s true
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Kananga on October 19, 2007, 12:23:34 PM
Excuse me sir, but who are YOU to tell me how I'm supposed to think?  Besides, I'm only posing a question in order to initiate a discussion.  In this week's Torah portion, Abraham is given the covenant and the mitzvot of circumcision.

Is there some reason you would want to discredit my conversion Yacov?

Circumcision is one of the covenantial mitzvot, along with Shabbat and Tefillin.  But just as many jews do not don tefillin or observe Shabbat, do you believe that circumcision has lost it's importance in the modern age as well?

Some people argue that cirucumcision is cruel practice that should not be imposed upon children who are too young to make decisions for themselves.


What kind of convert are you if you say that? You talk more like a self-hating Jew than a convert.


Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: nessuno on October 19, 2007, 12:27:45 PM
and it can prevent AIDS.yes it s true
please explain  ???
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 19, 2007, 01:27:37 PM
Sure it prevents[sometimes AIDS]So the world community is trying to teach that to Africans ,who see it as a shame. :)
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Merkava on October 19, 2007, 01:49:24 PM
Quote
and it can prevent AIDS.yes it s true

How on earth can it prevent aids ?
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 19, 2007, 01:59:26 PM
Im not sure,but Im not making this up.Do the research.But ,not to say we cant catch AIDS but less likely :) to.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: nessuno on October 20, 2007, 09:15:24 PM
Im not sure,but Im not making this up.Do the research.But ,not to say we cant catch AIDS but less likely :) to.
It seems there is some validity to what ChristianWhiteNation.name says
 O0
I had never heard that before.  8;)

Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on October 20, 2007, 09:18:18 PM
How can we tolerate and have such a disgusting question even posed?

 Can I make a pole asking - Should murder be permissible? or rape tolerated?
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 20, 2007, 09:20:47 PM
I Would never lie to anyone!yes scientists say so .It is less prone to keeping germs alive.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Dan on October 20, 2007, 09:22:06 PM
Quote
and it can prevent AIDS.yes it s true

How on earth can it prevent aids ?

NOT TRUE.
I'm sorry, but in medical school all the years of research that have been done this  has not been proven!
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Dan on October 20, 2007, 09:23:50 PM
However, I could be part of the establishment...LOL  ;D
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Wayne Jude on October 20, 2007, 09:25:42 PM
Very recent! It is a matter of cleanliness!
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Kananga on October 23, 2007, 11:24:52 AM
How can we tolerate and have such a disgusting question even posed?

 Can I make a pole asking - Should murder be permissible? or rape tolerated?

What's disgusting about it?  There are real people, both Jews and Gentiles, who are against circumcision. 

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/lifecycle/Ceremonies_For_Newborns/Overview_Contemporary_Issues/The_Circumcision_Debate.htm

By the way, I am NOT opposed to circumcision.   I'm a convert, remember??

Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Lubab on October 23, 2007, 09:29:34 PM
This poll is very disrespectful of G-d's commandment and sign of His eternal covenant with the Jewish people.

This is not even a question that needs to be asked on a Torah forum. G-d is eternal and so are his commandments. They are never "outdated". The results are in already and the poll is now locked.



Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Merkava on October 24, 2007, 02:57:36 AM
I actually know of a case of someone having an severe infection after and uiltimatley had everything removed. 
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: TorahZionist on October 24, 2007, 04:41:19 AM

What's disgusting about it?  There are real people, both Jews and Gentiles, who are against circumcision. 

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/lifecycle/Ceremonies_For_Newborns/Overview_Contemporary_Issues/The_Circumcision_Debate.htm

By the way, I am NOT opposed to circumcision.   I'm a convert, remember??

Kananga, please don't post that site in the Torah section.
Here are some of it's 'major partners':
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/links/lindex/majorpartners.htm
Quote
...
Central Conference of American Rabbis
Official site of the rabbinical arm of the Reform Movement
...
The Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association
Official site of the rabbinical arm of the Reconstructionist Movement
...
Society for Humanistic Judaism
A Jewish movement than embraces a historical, cultural context that imparts significance and value to Jewish identity
...
USCJ United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
Official site of for the lay arm of the Conservative Movement
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: TorahZionist on October 24, 2007, 04:44:20 AM

What's disgusting about it?  There are real people, both Jews and Gentiles, who are against circumcision. 

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/lifecycle/Ceremonies_For_Newborns/Overview_Contemporary_Issues/The_Circumcision_Debate.htm

By the way, I am NOT opposed to circumcision.   I'm a convert, remember??

Kananga, please don't post that site in the Torah section.
Here are some of it's 'major partners':
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/links/lindex/majorpartners.htm
Quote
...
Central Conference of American Rabbis
Official site of the rabbinical arm of the Reform Movement
...
The Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association
Official site of the rabbinical arm of the Reconstructionist Movement
...
Society for Humanistic Judaism
A Jewish movement than embraces a historical, cultural context that imparts significance and value to Jewish identity
...
USCJ United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
Official site of for the lay arm of the Conservative Movement

Also look at these links:
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/links/lindex/glbt.htm
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: newman on October 24, 2007, 05:11:29 AM
Religious issues for Jews aside, male circumcision is a very good idea to say the least!

My paternal great grandfather was a Norwegian protestant who moved to the Pacific Islands. My maternal great grandfather was an Aussie Catholic army officer. ALL their children were circumcised.

In hot, humid countries it is just plain stupid NOT to circumcise male children. In WW2 in New Guinnea, Aussie troops were lined up outside to MO's tent for circumcision due to the excrusiating discomfort of an uncircumcised willy in the tropics. (The Army normally does NOT perform elective surgury.....circumcision was the exception!).

Yes....I know proper hygeine can eleviate most problems but why the high maintainance if there is an alternative.

Secondly.....women HATE the sight of uncircumcised willies. Imagine the trauma and embarressment a young man could suffer if his new girlfriend or bride was to say...."EWWW! YUK!!!! Put that ugly thing away and never take it out again!"

Circumcision is ALL positive. There are NO drawbacks.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Vito on October 25, 2007, 02:36:10 AM
I'm cut.. wouldn't have it any other way  O0
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: newman on October 25, 2007, 04:12:00 AM
Religious issues for Jews aside, male circumcision is a very good idea to say the least!

My paternal great grandfather was a Norwegian protestant who moved to the Pacific Islands. My maternal great grandfather was an Aussie Catholic army officer. ALL their children were circumcised.

In hot, humid countries it is just plain stupid NOT to circumcise male children. In WW2 in New Guinnea, Aussie troops were lined up outside to MO's tent for circumcision due to the excrusiating discomfort of an uncircumcised willy in the tropics. (The Army normally does NOT perform elective surgury.....circumcision was the exception!).

Yes....I know proper hygeine can eleviate most problems but why the high maintainance if there is an alternative.

Secondly.....women HATE the sight of uncircumcised willies. Imagine the trauma and embarressment a young man could suffer if his new girlfriend or bride was to say...."EWWW! YUK!!!! Put that ugly thing away and never take it out again!"

Circumcision is ALL positive. There are NO drawbacks.


So are you circumcised?



Yes (Thank G_d).

It was one of the few decent things my parents did for me. Apart from not having to look at an ugly (uncircumcised) carrot in the shower, I'm eternally grateful that they circumcised me for the 7 months of the year in Brisbane when the heat and humidity are unbearable.

We Aussies bath twice a day and un-cut willies are nasty just the same. Imagine all those englishmen with their discusting un-cut ones when they only bathe once a week!!! YUK!!!!!!!!!! :o
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Gruzinit on April 01, 2008, 11:56:52 PM
:::D Newman! I'm cracking up over here!

Since you were originally desert people, it also helped. I doubt our ancestors would want sand trapped down there. ::)
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: MasterWolf1 on April 01, 2008, 11:58:53 PM
It is healthy for boys when they grow up to be men. And when it is done you what a day or 2 old you don't remember it.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Khazan on April 02, 2008, 12:03:15 AM
I don't know why people are getting pissed at this topic.  It was presented as a question to spark a discussion, no opinion on the matter was even initially presented. 

I got circumcised later in life and it was the best decision I ever made.  I fulfilled the ancient covenant of my ancestors and am at less risk for various health problems.  Not to mention having an uncircumcised schmekel is absolutely disgusting. 
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: White Israelite on April 02, 2008, 12:04:10 AM
Of course there are benefits to being circumsized.

You won't have to worry about [censored]
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Rubystars on April 02, 2008, 12:06:47 AM
I feel sorry for the babies crying when I see them in videos, but I know it doesn't do any long term harm. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. If anything people should be trying to stop females from being cut.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Raulmarrio2000 on April 02, 2008, 12:20:07 AM
I think circumcision is ok for Jews and some other nations who descend from Abraham, alav haShalom. But I oppose it for other Gentiles, except for real medical reasons. I think a true Noahide should not do it, since Abraham who was under the Noahide Laws didn't get it until he was ordered by Hashem.
But the "convert" who questioned it for Jews......hmmmmm if he thought like this at the moment he accepted conversion......he would be rejecting a Torah pasuk and his conversion could be invalid.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: MasterWolf1 on April 02, 2008, 12:26:49 AM
I feel sorry for the babies crying when I see them in videos, but I know it doesn't do any long term harm. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. If anything people should be trying to stop females from being cut.

Now that I agree, what Muzzies do to 6 year old girls is a disgrace and not one so called human rights groups speak out of this barbarism
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: White Israelite on April 02, 2008, 12:52:29 AM
ok why are people calling him "the convert" I thought as Jews, we are supposed to treat someone who converted as if they were a Jew and not remind them that they converted?
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Scriabin on April 02, 2008, 12:53:25 AM
ok why are people calling him "the convert" I thought as Jews, we are supposed to treat someone who converted as if they were a Jew and not remind them that they converted?

I honestly wonder what Skippy thinks of converts.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: FULL METAL JACKET on April 02, 2008, 12:55:50 AM
ok why are people calling him "the convert" I thought as Jews, we are supposed to treat someone who converted as if they were a Jew and not remind them that they converted?
Whoever made that remark clearly hasn't studied the Torah.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Khazan on April 02, 2008, 12:57:50 AM
ok why are people calling him "the convert" I thought as Jews, we are supposed to treat someone who converted as if they were a Jew and not remind them that they converted?

He's just not Jewish enough  :::D

"I keed!" 

That's the mentality of a lot of people on this forum seem to have.  Of course, it's the most religiously repressed who are the kinkiest at best.  Seriously, I'd love to see what some of the "überjews" of the forums have hidden in their closet. 
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Khazan on April 02, 2008, 01:01:27 AM
ok why are people calling him "the convert" I thought as Jews, we are supposed to treat someone who converted as if they were a Jew and not remind them that they converted?

Circumcision is one of the covenantial mitzvot, along with Shabbat and Tefillin.  But just as many jews do not don tefillin or observe Shabbat, do you believe that circumcision has lost it's importance in the modern age as well?

Some people argue that cirucumcision is cruel practice that should not be imposed upon children who are too young to make decisions for themselves.


What kind of convert are you if you say that? You talk more like a self-hating Jew than a convert.



Naturally it was Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim, such a tzadik, he may as well claim direct lineage of Moshe. 
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Dr. Dan on April 02, 2008, 01:08:58 AM
Is tough love cruel when it comes down to a family member or child?

I certainly hope not.

Is killing someone who is about to kill you cruel?

Unless you are a leftist self hating idiot, no, it's not cruel.

Circumcision may seem cruel, but you see?  It isn't.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Dr. Dan on April 02, 2008, 01:10:34 AM
How can we tolerate and have such a disgusting question even posed?

 Can I make a pole asking - Should murder be permissible? or rape tolerated?

Amen!
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Dr. Dan on April 02, 2008, 01:11:16 AM
Quote
and it can prevent AIDS.yes it s true

How on earth can it prevent aids ?

NOT TRUE.
I'm sorry, but in medical school all the years of research that have been done this  has not been proven!


you know?  I dont' care what is or isn't proven.. Jews need to do it..end of story.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: spiritus_persona on April 02, 2008, 01:31:44 AM
How can we tolerate and have such a disgusting question even posed?

 Can I make a pole asking - Should murder be permissible? or rape tolerated?

It's not that bad of a question.  It's not like we're going into any major details about how it's done.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Raulmarrio2000 on April 02, 2008, 02:00:57 AM
I call him the "Convert" b/c, if he had such a thought against Bris at the time he "converted", his conversion might be Hallachically invalid. I have nothing against TRUE converts, they are as Jewish as the native Jews.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Wayne Jude on April 02, 2008, 08:18:39 AM
Some deep stuff!And of course I have had the procedure,let those who don't believe continue in thier dis belief.Tell them and if they turn away,so be it! ;)
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: White Israelite on April 02, 2008, 12:19:10 PM
I call him the "Convert" b/c, if he had such a thought against Bris at the time he "converted", his conversion might be Hallachically invalid. I have nothing against TRUE converts, they are as Jewish as the native Jews.

Are you a Rabbi?
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: MasterWolf1 on April 02, 2008, 12:20:34 PM
I was, and so was my brother and nephew and we are not Jewish.

http://www.circumcisioninfo.com/schoen1.html

Read this, Circumcision is healthy for boys as they grow up to be men
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: White Israelite on April 02, 2008, 12:22:24 PM
its intersting how Brit Millah (circumsionson) was first started by Jews  and the whole world hated the idea of a circumsionion they banned Jews from having circumcisions. but today the whole world gets a circumcision, mulsim copied us, and doctors have said its a halt procedure.

That's not completely true, circumcision isn't very commonly practiced in eastern europe, not sure about the rest of europe. In America it's common because of claims of medical reasons, now the thread poster said that he didn't see any medical evidence of circumcision. I'm not against circumcision for Jews because it's part of our faith, but for gentiles, theres a lot of controversy over gentiles and their kids. I don't think gentiles should be forced to have it and can understand why they would be upset about it.

But yeah I think there are a few European states that actually ban circumcision. I don't think it's very common in Asia either.
Title: Re: Circumcision
Post by: Raulmarrio2000 on April 02, 2008, 12:32:43 PM
I call him the "Convert" b/c, if he had such a thought against Bris at the time he "converted", his conversion might be Hallachically invalid. I have nothing against TRUE converts, they are as Jewish as the native Jews.

Are you a Rabbi?

No, not even a Jew. But when I aimed to convert I learned that, if the convert rejects one Torah Law at the moment of the conversion, it's invalid. And if it is later known, the conversion can be anulled. However, if he accepted all the Torah sincerely but had ulterior reasons to convert and hid them from the Beis Din, the conversion is still valid. I only suggested that he should consult an authority if he disagreed with Bris for children, even if he accepted it on him......