JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dr. Dan on November 21, 2007, 07:13:39 PM
-
:P
-
I bet you'd eat bacon, Danny, you semi-observent Jew, you.. :D
-
It would give Jews a good excuse to try bacon without sinning. ;)
-
Having children is a mitzvah. What if you have erectile dysfunction and need an aphrodesiac to breed and only oysters are available?
Can you break one mitzvah and eat oysters to obey the other mitzvah to multiply?
-
Having children is a mitzvah. What if you have erectile dysfunction and need an aphrodesiac to breed and only oysters are available?
Can you break one mitzvah and eat oysters to obey the other mitzvah to multiply?
What is an aphrodesiac?
Something that makes one amorous. Like spanish fly. Oysters are the best natural one.
-
What is a Spanish fly?
An aphrodesiac! Like natural viagra.
-
In that situation every bite I take from a non-kosher meal will only serve as a bitter reminder to destroy the enemy! Of course, I would start a Kosher underground movement for Jews to secretly eat only Kosher food too, besides Jews, hopefully righteous Gentiles will also step in and help out in distributing Kosher meals secretly too!
And fight the enemy!
The halal food that muslims request is for me, as a non-Muslim unacceptable to eat.
not, that it is kosher or not-kosher, I don't intend to become a Jew, so I enjoy eating pork and respect Jews that can't eat it.
Anyway, I never go to eat in places where muslims are working in the kitchen,
In my favourite restaurant I was once a Paki working in the kitchen , but lucky for me he doesn't work there anymore.
I think in a situation a Jew can't find kosher food , he should follow the rules, at all costs , unless he would be starving to death.
-
Newman, your question is moot, being that we now have Viagra.
-
Newman, your question is moot, being that we now have Viagra.
But my question was IF oysters were the only aphrodesiac available.
-
I have never eaten pork, at least knowingly (I'm sure it's been an additive in foods I've eaten and been unaware of and that I have been fooled sometime in my life, just given the probabilities) even before I began the attempt to become strictly kosher. I remember as a kid my Dad told me pigs spend most of their lives in mud and it was a turnoff. He also doesn't eat pork, but I can catch him on a few things about not being 100 percent kosher if I looked hard enough.
-
Having children is a mitzvah. What if you have erectile dysfunction and need an aphrodesiac to breed and only oysters are available?
Can you break one mitzvah and eat oysters to obey the other mitzvah to multiply?
What is an aphrodesiac?
Something that makes one amorous. Like spanish fly. Oysters are the best natural one.
Not for everyone....Id be in the bathroom losing my lunch.....YUCK oysters :o :o
Congrats on 7000 posts!
-
Having children is a mitzvah. What if you have erectile dysfunction and need an aphrodesiac to breed and only oysters are available?
Can you break one mitzvah and eat oysters to obey the other mitzvah to multiply?
What is an aphrodesiac?
Something that makes one amorous. Like spanish fly. Oysters are the best natural one.
Not for everyone....Id be in the bathroom losing my lunch.....YUCK oysters :o :o
Congrats on 7000 posts!
Thankyou.
Correction:
Oysters are the second best natural aphrodesiac.
Kellymaureen is the best. :D
-
Newman, such talk should be saved for private messages only.
-
Re: "...I have never eaten pork..."
The following is true.
In the year 2000, I took part in a Talmudic discourse given by a Lubavitcher Rabbi to a small group of men, among them a practicing attorney.
The subject?
The Rabbi was explaining under what circumstances pork is considered kosher by means of Talmudic reasoning.
I was flabbergasted!
What! I exclaimed...
The Rabbi explained that according to our greatest Rabbinical Sages, if a Jew walking along sees a pack of butchered meat lying on the ground, he may consider it kosher if there is reason for him to believe that a kosher butcher was within a certain distance of his whereabouts...even if in a non-Jewish country where almost no other Jews are near.
In such a situation, the butchered pork could be considered kosher meat, brought home and enjoyed by the whole Jewish family!
To this day I still can't quite grasp the intricacies of the Rabbi's discussion...it simply made my "head spin" trying to figure it all out.
The lawyer attending the meeting, seeing my unsettled demeanor at hearing a Rabbi declare that pork could be actually kosher, turned to me and said, "Now you know why it is that Yeshiva students make the best courtroom attorneys!"
-
I don't eat Kosher meat since I am a Goy. But I strictly avoid Tameh animals. Neither eat them nor touch them when dead.
And I would have no problem with Halal, if I doubt some food may have pork or shellfish, and there is Halal, I'd choose Halal instead.
However I'd buy the Halal in a supermarket, not directly from a Muslim....lest he may poison me for being pro-Israel. One never knows..........
-
All sexual excitement and sexual arousal is within the mind.
So too the climax is within the mind.
Nothing is more arousing to myself than a beautifully adorned woman whose clothing accentuates the female form, or just watching the natural walk of such a woman, etc... .
An "erection" isn't necessarily related to sensual arousal.
However, for those who disagree, I strongly recommend using a long piece of string and a popsickle stick to compensate for nature's deficiencies.
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
-
I don't eat Kosher meat since I am a Goy. But I strictly avoid Tameh animals. Neither eat them nor touch them when dead.
And I would have no problem with Halal, if I doubt some food may have pork or shellfish, and there is Halal, I'd choose Halal instead.
However I'd buy the Halal in a supermarket, not directly from a Muslim....lest he may poison me for being pro-Israel. One never knows..........
But buying halal would only encourage them. No?
Encourage them in the sense that we are legitimizing their false dietary laws and giving their halal companies $$. I don't want to give them money.
I agree Mills. You don't give a single penny to your enemies.
I rather don't eat than accepting muzz-food.
-
Halal is Treif for Jews, unless it is also certified Kosher by a Rabbi. Halal doen't fit as kosher for a Jew, it is not slaughtered under Torah Laws. But it is reliable that it has no pork or other filthiness, so it's ok for me ( A Goy who dislikes Tameh).
Anyway I always prefer Kosher food, even when the food is not requiered to be certified even for a Jew, I try to buy it, just to support the companies which have their products certified. I even prefer Kosher candles, even to light the house, just to give money to the Kosher Mashgiash
-
In a life and death situation I would prefer Halal over outright non-kosher. And wanyway it doesn't really encourage or support anything if its a one in a life time thing.
-
It is utterly irrelevant which one is chosen. Neither is Kosher and therefore undesired, but in a life and death situation a Jew is allowed to eat non-Kosher, unless he is specifically forced to eat non-kosher (sounds more complex than it is)
-
I bet you'd eat bacon, Danny, you semi-observent Jew, you.. :D
I actually I keep kosher to a certain degree
that means i don't eat trayf foods..i try to only eat kosher meat.. I don't mix dairy with meat...but with poultry i do...When i do eat beef i wait at least 3 hours before i eat dairy. When i go out to restaurants, i try to avoid unkosher meat including poultry, but i'll everythign else.
I do not separate dishes...
and bacon...blech!
-
Having children is a mitzvah. What if you have erectile dysfunction and need an aphrodesiac to breed and only oysters are available?
Can you break one mitzvah and eat oysters to obey the other mitzvah to multiply?
probably not in this case...besides, there is Viagra.
-
How could someone eat a fly?
YOu pick it up with your fingers, open your mouth and then chomp chomp chomp like anything else.
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
I thought about this and you are technically right...Halal is not kosher...
However, why is it that if our life is threatened by Muslims to convert we are allowed to convert, but with Christianity we have to take the sword?
So along that line, isn't choosing Halal food a higher priority than eating non-Halal food if kosher were not available?
-
What is a Spanish fly?
Its a beetle thats dried and crushed into powder.
-
I just DIE DIE DIE :::D
I would never trust anything muslim.
And the Army provides REM's that are Kosher.
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
I thought about this and you are technically right...Halal is not kosher...
However, why is it that if our life is threatened by Muslims to convert we are allowed to convert, but with Christianity we have to take the sword?
So along that line, isn't choosing Halal food a higher priority than eating non-Halal food if kosher were not available?
No. I see you're logic there, but it's slightly off.
Under the threat of death, one is allowed to convert to Islam and not Christianity because, according to most opinions, Christianity is Avodah Zara, and while Islam may be evil, it's not idolatry.
But this has nothing to do with the laws of the religions...
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
I thought about this and you are technically right...Halal is not kosher...
However, why is it that if our life is threatened by Muslims to convert we are allowed to convert, but with Christianity we have to take the sword?
So along that line, isn't choosing Halal food a higher priority than eating non-Halal food if kosher were not available?
No. I see you're logic there, but it's slightly off.
Under the threat of death, one is allowed to convert to Islam and not Christianity because, according to most opinions, Christianity is Avodah Zara, and while Islam may be evil, it's not idolatry.
But this has nothing to do with the laws of the religions...
so let me counter this with the fact that I hear ya...
but, under the threat of death, it's ok to convert to Islam...but under the threat of a natural death, you say it's different with eating food from a religion which makes an effort (albiet a terrible one) to legitimize the food in Gd's name versus something that has no legitimacy?
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
I thought about this and you are technically right...Halal is not kosher...
However, why is it that if our life is threatened by Muslims to convert we are allowed to convert, but with Christianity we have to take the sword?
So along that line, isn't choosing Halal food a higher priority than eating non-Halal food if kosher were not available?
No. I see you're logic there, but it's slightly off.
Under the threat of death, one is allowed to convert to Islam and not Christianity because, according to most opinions, Christianity is Avodah Zara, and while Islam may be evil, it's not idolatry.
But this has nothing to do with the laws of the religions...
so let me counter this with the fact that I hear ya...
but, under the threat of death, it's ok to convert to Islam...but under the threat of a natural death, you say it's different with eating food from a religion which makes an effort (albiet a terrible one) to legitimize the food in Gd's name versus something that has no legitimacy?
Did you convert to Islam? It still isn't any different from any other treif.
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
I thought about this and you are technically right...Halal is not kosher...
However, why is it that if our life is threatened by Muslims to convert we are allowed to convert, but with Christianity we have to take the sword?
So along that line, isn't choosing Halal food a higher priority than eating non-Halal food if kosher were not available?
No. I see you're logic there, but it's slightly off.
Under the threat of death, one is allowed to convert to Islam and not Christianity because, according to most opinions, Christianity is Avodah Zara, and while Islam may be evil, it's not idolatry.
But this has nothing to do with the laws of the religions...
so let me counter this with the fact that I hear ya...
but, under the threat of death, it's ok to convert to Islam...but under the threat of a natural death, you say it's different with eating food from a religion which makes an effort (albiet a terrible one) to legitimize the food in Gd's name versus something that has no legitimacy?
Did you convert to Islam? It still isn't any different from any other treif.
oh no, i'[m still Jewish and have no intenetion of converting...
and you're right..it is still treyf like pork is treyf..or unkosher beef even.
what on the threat of death one needs to survive and has a choice of eating halal beef versus pork or maybe even other unkosher beef, it would only seem logical to eat the halal beef since an effort was made to make it kosher like...I'm not defending Islam or anything...i just want to step outside the box for our hatred of muslims and hear what everybody else has to say to that.
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
I thought about this and you are technically right...Halal is not kosher...
However, why is it that if our life is threatened by Muslims to convert we are allowed to convert, but with Christianity we have to take the sword?
So along that line, isn't choosing Halal food a higher priority than eating non-Halal food if kosher were not available?
No. I see you're logic there, but it's slightly off.
Under the threat of death, one is allowed to convert to Islam and not Christianity because, according to most opinions, Christianity is Avodah Zara, and while Islam may be evil, it's not idolatry.
But this has nothing to do with the laws of the religions...
so let me counter this with the fact that I hear ya...
but, under the threat of death, it's ok to convert to Islam...but under the threat of a natural death, you say it's different with eating food from a religion which makes an effort (albiet a terrible one) to legitimize the food in Gd's name versus something that has no legitimacy?
Did you convert to Islam? It still isn't any different from any other treif.
oh no, i'[m still Jewish and have no intenetion of converting...
and you're right..it is still treyf like pork is treyf..or unkosher beef even.
what on the threat of death one needs to survive and has a choice of eating halal beef versus pork or maybe even other unkosher beef, it would only seem logical to eat the halal beef since an effort was made to make it kosher like...I'm not defending Islam or anything...i just want to step outside the box for our hatred of muslims and hear what everybody else has to say to that.
Once again, I see your logic, but it still makes no difference. Unless you're a Muslim, Halal or non-Halal are one and the same, if they're not Kosher.
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
I thought about this and you are technically right...Halal is not kosher...
However, why is it that if our life is threatened by Muslims to convert we are allowed to convert, but with Christianity we have to take the sword?
So along that line, isn't choosing Halal food a higher priority than eating non-Halal food if kosher were not available?
No. I see you're logic there, but it's slightly off.
Under the threat of death, one is allowed to convert to Islam and not Christianity because, according to most opinions, Christianity is Avodah Zara, and while Islam may be evil, it's not idolatry.
But this has nothing to do with the laws of the religions...
so let me counter this with the fact that I hear ya...
but, under the threat of death, it's ok to convert to Islam...but under the threat of a natural death, you say it's different with eating food from a religion which makes an effort (albiet a terrible one) to legitimize the food in Gd's name versus something that has no legitimacy?
Did you convert to Islam? It still isn't any different from any other treif.
oh no, i'[m still Jewish and have no intenetion of converting...
and you're right..it is still treyf like pork is treyf..or unkosher beef even.
what on the threat of death one needs to survive and has a choice of eating halal beef versus pork or maybe even other unkosher beef, it would only seem logical to eat the halal beef since an effort was made to make it kosher like...I'm not defending Islam or anything...i just want to step outside the box for our hatred of muslims and hear what everybody else has to say to that.
Once again, I see your logic, but it still makes no difference. Unless you're a Muslim, Halal or non-Halal are one and the same, if they're not Kosher.
I see your logic too...that's why I left a choice A and C. heheh but nobody picked it yet.
-
From what I understand, Halal is at least compliant with Noachide law.
-
From what I understand, Halal is at least compliant with Noachide law.
Dhabiĥa Halal (the strictest form from what I understand), is compliant with the Noachide laws. Halal in general though, I don't think necessarily has a prohibition from the meat being taken from a live animal, but I could be mistaken.
-
From what I understand, Halal is at least compliant with Noachide law.
Dhabiĥa Halal (the strictest form from what I understand), is compliant with the Noachide laws. Halal in general though, I don't think necessarily has a prohibition from the meat being taken from a live animal, but I could be mistaken.
It does. And the blood has to be drained completely.
You cannot eat anything already dead or alive.
You cannot shoot an animal like they do normally because the heart is still pumping the blood around at least another once before the animal dies.
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
I thought about this and you are technically right...Halal is not kosher...
However, why is it that if our life is threatened by Muslims to convert we are allowed to convert, but with Christianity we have to take the sword?
So along that line, isn't choosing Halal food a higher priority than eating non-Halal food if kosher were not available?
No. I see you're logic there, but it's slightly off.
Under the threat of death, one is allowed to convert to Islam and not Christianity because, according to most opinions, Christianity is Avodah Zara, and while Islam may be evil, it's not idolatry.
But this has nothing to do with the laws of the religions...
They idolize mohammed. In their prayers, his name is called.
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
I thought about this and you are technically right...Halal is not kosher...
However, why is it that if our life is threatened by Muslims to convert we are allowed to convert, but with Christianity we have to take the sword?
So along that line, isn't choosing Halal food a higher priority than eating non-Halal food if kosher were not available?
No. I see you're logic there, but it's slightly off.
Under the threat of death, one is allowed to convert to Islam and not Christianity because, according to most opinions, Christianity is Avodah Zara, and while Islam may be evil, it's not idolatry.
But this has nothing to do with the laws of the religions...
They idolize mohammed. In their prayers, his name is called.
No they don't. There's a difference between a false prophet and an idol.
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
I thought about this and you are technically right...Halal is not kosher...
However, why is it that if our life is threatened by Muslims to convert we are allowed to convert, but with Christianity we have to take the sword?
So along that line, isn't choosing Halal food a higher priority than eating non-Halal food if kosher were not available?
No. I see you're logic there, but it's slightly off.
Under the threat of death, one is allowed to convert to Islam and not Christianity because, according to most opinions, Christianity is Avodah Zara, and while Islam may be evil, it's not idolatry.
But this has nothing to do with the laws of the religions...
They idolize mohammed. In their prayers, his name is called.
No they don't. There's a difference between a false prophet and an idol.
They do not worship him in the same way pagans worship idols. They do call his name along with allah in their prayers, I read their prayer instructions for new muslims and muslims who became more religious. muzzies will also throw a fit if mohammed is insulted or spoken about in a negative fashion, but they will not care much if it were about any of the real prophets of HaShem.
-
It makes not a one iota of difference! They're both treif!
I thought about this and you are technically right...Halal is not kosher...
However, why is it that if our life is threatened by Muslims to convert we are allowed to convert, but with Christianity we have to take the sword?
So along that line, isn't choosing Halal food a higher priority than eating non-Halal food if kosher were not available?
No. I see you're logic there, but it's slightly off.
Under the threat of death, one is allowed to convert to Islam and not Christianity because, according to most opinions, Christianity is Avodah Zara, and while Islam may be evil, it's not idolatry.
But this has nothing to do with the laws of the religions...
They idolize mohammed. In their prayers, his name is called.
No they don't. There's a difference between a false prophet and an idol.
They do not worship him in the same way pagans worship idols. They do call his name along with allah in their prayers, I read their prayer instructions for new muslims and muslims who became more religious. muzzies will also throw a fit if mohammed is insulted or spoken about in a negative fashion, but they will not care much if it were about any of the real prophets of HaShem.
That's not Avodah Zara, though. I think the Rambam knows a little more about this than anyone on this forum...
-
In some grocery stores, there is a section for kosher and halal meat. If pork is put in with the halal meat, will that render the meat haram? If the samething is done with kosher meat, will that render the meat unkosher?
-
In some grocery stores, there is a section for kosher and halal meat. If pork is put in with the halal meat, will that render the meat haram? If the samething is done with kosher meat, will that render the meat unkosher?
For the former, I don't know. For the latter, yes.
-
In some grocery stores, there is a section for kosher and halal meat. If pork is put in with the halal meat, will that render the meat haram? If the samething is done with kosher meat, will that render the meat unkosher?
For the former, I don't know. For the latter, yes.
Really? Even when the meats are both in their intact packaging?
-
Don't want to defame kosher food..I prefer it over the rest most of the time.
However, talk about poison food...There is a heck of a lot of kosher meat out there in some of these kosher restaurants which are so bad for you and fattening..and no care in the world to make healthy for you...just not fresh and gross unfortunately. Wouldn't it make logical sense if Rabbis with the expertise in Kashrut to encourage making kosher food very fresh and healthy with less oil etc etc etc so that, Gd forbid, good Jews don't die of heart problems? I mean we should take our food a step higher by making it extra special healthy! I mean since the most religious of us don't really exercise and study all day long.
-
In some grocery stores, there is a section for kosher and halal meat. If pork is put in with the halal meat, will that render the meat haram? If the samething is done with kosher meat, will that render the meat unkosher?
For the former, I don't know. For the latter, yes.
Really? Even when the meats are both in their intact packaging?
the way i look at it is that you don't want someone who is keeping kosher to run the risk of taking the wrong meat and eating it..So keeping it in a separate aisle makes the most sense. Or for that matter in a different store if possible.
-
In some grocery stores, there is a section for kosher and halal meat. If pork is put in with the halal meat, will that render the meat haram? If the samething is done with kosher meat, will that render the meat unkosher?
For the former, I don't know. For the latter, yes.
Really? Even when the meats are both in their intact packaging?
I would ask a Rabbi, but it is highly inadvisable, that I do know.
-
In some grocery stores, there is a section for kosher and halal meat. If pork is put in with the halal meat, will that render the meat haram? If the samething is done with kosher meat, will that render the meat unkosher?
For the former, I don't know. For the latter, yes.
Really? Even when the meats are both in their intact packaging?
I would ask a Rabbi, but it is highly inadvisable, that I do know.
Thanks, BTW I do not intend to mix kosher with non kosher.
-
In some grocery stores, there is a section for kosher and halal meat. If pork is put in with the halal meat, will that render the meat haram? If the samething is done with kosher meat, will that render the meat unkosher?
For the former, I don't know. For the latter, yes.
Really? Even when the meats are both in their intact packaging?
I would ask a Rabbi, but it is highly inadvisable, that I do know.
Thanks, BTW I do not intend to mix kosher with non kosher.
Are you Jewish, Mstislav?
-
In some grocery stores, there is a section for kosher and halal meat. If pork is put in with the halal meat, will that render the meat haram? If the samething is done with kosher meat, will that render the meat unkosher?
For the former, I don't know. For the latter, yes.
Really? Even when the meats are both in their intact packaging?
I would ask a Rabbi, but it is highly inadvisable, that I do know.
Thanks, BTW I do not intend to mix kosher with non kosher.
Are you Jewish, Mstislav?
No. I want to convert to Judaism but have not yet found an orthodox synagogue nearby.
-
In some grocery stores, there is a section for kosher and halal meat. If pork is put in with the halal meat, will that render the meat haram? If the samething is done with kosher meat, will that render the meat unkosher?
For the former, I don't know. For the latter, yes.
Really? Even when the meats are both in their intact packaging?
I would ask a Rabbi, but it is highly inadvisable, that I do know.
Thanks, BTW I do not intend to mix kosher with non kosher.
Are you Jewish, Mstislav?
No. I want to convert to Judaism but have not yet found an orthodox synagogue nearby.
If you are already keeping the Seven Noachide Laws, there is really no need for conversion.
-
In some grocery stores, there is a section for kosher and halal meat. If pork is put in with the halal meat, will that render the meat haram? If the samething is done with kosher meat, will that render the meat unkosher?
For the former, I don't know. For the latter, yes.
Really? Even when the meats are both in their intact packaging?
I would ask a Rabbi, but it is highly inadvisable, that I do know.
Thanks, BTW I do not intend to mix kosher with non kosher.
Are you Jewish, Mstislav?
No. I want to convert to Judaism but have not yet found an orthodox synagogue nearby.
If you are already keeping the Seven Noachide Laws, there is really no need for conversion.
Becoming Jewish was something I wanted to do for a long time now.
-
In some grocery stores, there is a section for kosher and halal meat. If pork is put in with the halal meat, will that render the meat haram? If the samething is done with kosher meat, will that render the meat unkosher?
For the former, I don't know. For the latter, yes.
Really? Even when the meats are both in their intact packaging?
I would ask a Rabbi, but it is highly inadvisable, that I do know.
Thanks, BTW I do not intend to mix kosher with non kosher.
Are you Jewish, Mstislav?
No. I want to convert to Judaism but have not yet found an orthodox synagogue nearby.
If you are already keeping the Seven Noachide Laws, there is really no need for conversion.
Becoming Jewish was something I wanted to do for a long time now.
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
Why in the world are you still apart of a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?! 8;)
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
Because to people like us, everyday that we are not Jewish is more painful than we can describe.
You are a convert?
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
Because to people like us, everyday that we are not Jewish is more painful than we can describe.
You are a convert?
I'm getting there! O0
At least you have already started down the road. How ling does the process take?
-
Becoming Jewish was something I wanted to do for a long time now.
Thats great O0
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
To people like us, everyday that we are not Jewish is more painful than we can describe.
it would just be so much easier to be a Noahide wouldn't it? Pogroms, Holocausts, Israel hatred..etc etc etc...everybody hates us and are jealous..why woudl anyone in their right mind be one of us? Gd loves you for being non jewish I"m sure of it..you'll get into heaven ifyou are a good person...you dont' have to be jewish to go to heaven.. I just don't get it..
(note how i try to discourage conversion :) )
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
To people like us, everyday that we are not Jewish is more painful than we can describe.
it would just be so much easier to be a Noahide wouldn't it? Pogroms, Holocausts, Israel hatred..etc etc etc...everybody hates us and are jealous..why woudl anyone in their right mind be one of us? Gd loves you for being non jewish I"m sure of it..you'll get into heaven ifyou are a good person...you dont' have to be jewish to go to heaven.. I just don't get it..
(note how i try to discourage conversion :) )
Lol shouldn't you just be neutral not encouraging or discouraging.
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
Why in the world are you still apart of a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?! 8;)
Because I was born and raised a Jew...so I would not dare leave the very thing Gd gave me to be born with... That would be a shame on His name.
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
To people like us, everyday that we are not Jewish is more painful than we can describe.
it would just be so much easier to be a Noahide wouldn't it? Pogroms, Holocausts, Israel hatred..etc etc etc...everybody hates us and are jealous..why woudl anyone in their right mind be one of us? Gd loves you for being non jewish I"m sure of it..you'll get into heaven ifyou are a good person...you dont' have to be jewish to go to heaven.. I just don't get it..
(note how i try to discourage conversion :) )
Lol shouldn't you just be neutral not encouraging or discouraging.
no, we're supposed to discourage at first. See? we aren't like Islam and certain types of Christians which try to convert everybody and threaten...
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
To people like us, everyday that we are not Jewish is more painful than we can describe.
it would just be so much easier to be a Noahide wouldn't it? Pogroms, Holocausts, Israel hatred..etc etc etc...everybody hates us and are jealous..why woudl anyone in their right mind be one of us? Gd loves you for being non jewish I"m sure of it..you'll get into heaven ifyou are a good person...you dont' have to be jewish to go to heaven.. I just don't get it..
(note how i try to discourage conversion :) )
Lol shouldn't you just be neutral not encouraging or discouraging.
no, we're supposed to discourage at first. See? we aren't like Islam and certain types of Christians which try to convert everybody and threaten...
Then why don't you not comment at all instead of being negative?
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
To people like us, everyday that we are not Jewish is more painful than we can describe.
it would just be so much easier to be a Noahide wouldn't it? Pogroms, Holocausts, Israel hatred..etc etc etc...everybody hates us and are jealous..why woudl anyone in their right mind be one of us? Gd loves you for being non jewish I"m sure of it..you'll get into heaven ifyou are a good person...you dont' have to be jewish to go to heaven.. I just don't get it..
(note how i try to discourage conversion :) )
So you are a rabbi as well? Okay, I will play along with this game. The anti Israel lot will hate me for being por Israel, I have been labeled as a Jew and got into fights with anti semites in my early years, perhaps I am not in my right mind? ::) jks
-
When you want something you know in your heart and soul is true, no one can discourge you.
-
When you want something you know in your heart and soul is true, no one can discourge you.
Of course. dannycookie will not discourage me, but it was not his place to write that
His place is a member of this forum, and he was expressing an opinion, no more no less that he has always done.
I for one think it was ok, I was not offended. I am sorry you were.
-
You know what dannycookie57, keep your discouragements to yourself! I am too far into my conversion to have you tell me those things, infact its kind of insulting. I'm afraid it is better to be neutral here in the forum, you are not my Rabbi. Only he can tell me those things, I honestly do not appreciate it from you... especially becuase you don't know what my soul feels.
Besides, a Rabbi only rejects us 3 times....not other people we don't need fellow Jews to discourage us, only the Rabbi does this! Others in the forum have been very supportive and I preciate them.
Anywho, I have to step out, but I'll be back later.
I didn't know you were converting...Listen...first off everythign that i was saying was in jest...I wasn't trying to annoy you or make you feel bad..I was playing devil's advocate if anything. but I'm sorry that i hurt your feelings..i didn't mean to do that and I"m happy that you are taking the proper steps to get there. It's very courageous of you and I wish you the best of luck, Gd willing.
and yes, deep inside, I like it when more people want to become Jews. The more the merrier.
-
Yea, dannycookie. as much as I like you, you are not a RABBI to try to discourage us! It is not your place. Its kind of insulting actually!
I'll be back later.
Relax Mills, he was addressing me.
-
And the reason why I stay a Jew and am proud to be one is because we are a relgion of underdogs..that when good things happen to us in a sea of evil doers, it reminds me that Gd exists and also exists for us Jews.
-
And the reason why I stay a Jew and am proud to be one is because we are a relgion of underdogs..that when good things happen to us in a sea of evil doers, it reminds me that Gd exists and also exists for us Jews.
Great answer.
-
You know what dannycookie57, keep your discouragements to yourself! I am too far into my conversion to have you tell me those things, infact its kind of insulting. I'm afraid it is better to be neutral here in the forum, you are not my Rabbi. Only he can tell me those things, I honestly do not appreciate it from you... especially becuase you don't know what my soul feels.
Besides, a Rabbi only rejects us 3 times....not other people we don't need fellow Jews to discourage us, only the Rabbi does this! Others in the forum have been very supportive and I preciate them.
Anywho, I have to step out, but I'll be back later.
I didn't know you were converting...Listen...first off everythign that i was saying was in jest...I wasn't trying to annoy you or make you feel bad..I was playing devil's advocate if anything. but I'm sorry that i hurt your feelings..i didn't mean to do that and I"m happy that you are taking the proper steps to get there. It's very courageous of you and I wish you the best of luck, Gd willing.
and yes, deep inside, I like it when more people want to become Jews. The more the merrier.
Don't apologize! I like you, I am sorry I overreacted. You rock and are a great co-JTFer! O0
Woohoo! Party all the time!
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
The implication being that it is PERFECTLY REASONABLE why Jews would want to abandon Judaism, right?!
I hate this kind of intelligence-insulting "bum's rush"!
Judaism is biblical TRUTH! That's why!
Sometimes Jews talk like agents of the goyim!
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
The implication being that it is PERFECTLY REASONABLE why Jews would want to abandon Judaism, right?!
I hate this kind of intelligence-insulting "bum's rush"!
Judaism is biblical TRUTH! That's why!
Sometimes Jews talk like agents of the goyim!
Hey Uzi, if you follow up with my answer to my I stay Jewish you'll understand. I was also play devil's advocate.
but let me give you real situation. The school yard. You have "the crowd"...and then you have the loner outcast group of kids. If most kids can choose one, almost all of them will choose the "cool" crowd under the condition they lose all individualism and the right to be independent from the crowd. On the other hand the loner crowd gives the benefits of being indpendent individual achievers..set apart from the rest. In fact an underdog when the "crowd" decides to be rambunctious to that person...but when that underdog overcomes the insults and becomes one of the tops, he/she is blessed by most if not all people who confront him.. He/she is liked by everyone...When he does good for society, it is noticed 10 fold more than a team or corporation of people.
So I liken Jews and Judaism and Israel as that loner kid..and the rest of the world as "the crowd".
To a smaller scale, JTF is the loner kid to the Jewish world. We will overcome the adversity of the leftist secular crowd.
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
To people like us, everyday that we are not Jewish is more painful than we can describe.
it would just be so much easier to be a Noahide wouldn't it? Pogroms, Holocausts, Israel hatred..etc etc etc...everybody hates us and are jealous..why woudl anyone in their right mind be one of us? Gd loves you for being non jewish I"m sure of it..you'll get into heaven ifyou are a good person...you dont' have to be jewish to go to heaven.. I just don't get it..
(note how i try to discourage conversion :) )
Lol shouldn't you just be neutral not encouraging or discouraging.
no, we're supposed to discourage at first. See? we aren't like Islam and certain types of Christians which try to convert everybody and threaten...
Then why don't you not comment at all instead of being negative?
It's Jewish law.
Jews don't proselytise, missionise, invade or convert by force or duress.
When a gentile approaches wanting to convert, they MUST attempt to discourage him three times..................
Unlike iSSlam.
Does that tell you something about the two religions, Sarah?
-
exactly...
listen, one shoudl not become a Jew because he/she thinks can get into Heaven...
so whether or not it is the biblical truth (it is), you don't become a Jew thinking you will go to Heaven.
-
exactly...
listen, one shoudl not become a Jew because he/she thinks can get into Heaven...
so whether or not it is the biblical truth (it is), you don't become a Jew thinking you will go to Heaven.
Well franky it always interests me why people convert.
-
I would eat anything to stay alive.
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
The implication being that it is PERFECTLY REASONABLE why Jews would want to abandon Judaism, right?!
I hate this kind of intelligence-insulting "bum's rush"!
Judaism is biblical TRUTH! That's why!
Sometimes Jews talk like agents of the goyim!
Hey Uzi, if you follow up with my answer to my I stay Jewish you'll understand. I was also play devil's advocate.
but let me give you real situation. The school yard. You have "the crowd"...and then you have the loner outcast group of kids. If most kids can choose one, almost all of them will choose the "cool" crowd under the condition they lose all individualism and the right to be independent from the crowd. On the other hand the loner crowd gives the benefits of being indpendent individual achievers..set apart from the rest. In fact an underdog when the "crowd" decides to be rambunctious to that person...but when that underdog overcomes the insults and becomes one of the tops, he/she is blessed by most if not all people who confront him.. He/she is liked by everyone...When he does good for society, it is noticed 10 fold more than a team or corporation of people.
So I liken Jews and Judaism and Israel as that loner kid..and the rest of the world as "the crowd".
To a smaller scale, JTF is the loner kid to the Jewish world. We will overcome the adversity of the leftist secular crowd.
I hear you, but thats not a good answer of why we (Jews) should follow Judaism- G-d's laws. Think about it, lets say Jews were the dominent ones would that make a difference to the truth. I strive in following G-d's laws becuase its the truth that G-d has given. Judaism encourages and actually commands a Jew to learn its laws and learn why it can only be divine (threw investigating it over and over again you will see that it can only be divine and NOTHING in the world comes close to the Torah).
-
I would eat anything to stay alive.
Really? would you eat people?
If thats a yes, remind me never to be locked in a prison with you. ^-^
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
The implication being that it is PERFECTLY REASONABLE why Jews would want to abandon Judaism, right?!
I hate this kind of intelligence-insulting "bum's rush"!
Judaism is biblical TRUTH! That's why!
Sometimes Jews talk like agents of the goyim!
Interesting analysis.
I'm pretty sure that the discouragement should be to let the potential convert know how all encompassing the laws of the Torah are so te person knows what they are in for and if they can handle keeping the Torah.
-
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!
The implication being that it is PERFECTLY REASONABLE why Jews would want to abandon Judaism, right?!
I hate this kind of intelligence-insulting "bum's rush"!
Judaism is biblical TRUTH! That's why!
Sometimes Jews talk like agents of the goyim!
Hey Uzi, if you follow up with my answer to my I stay Jewish you'll understand. I was also play devil's advocate.
but let me give you real situation. The school yard. You have "the crowd"...and then you have the loner outcast group of kids. If most kids can choose one, almost all of them will choose the "cool" crowd under the condition they lose all individualism and the right to be independent from the crowd. On the other hand the loner crowd gives the benefits of being indpendent individual achievers..set apart from the rest. In fact an underdog when the "crowd" decides to be rambunctious to that person...but when that underdog overcomes the insults and becomes one of the tops, he/she is blessed by most if not all people who confront him.. He/she is liked by everyone...When he does good for society, it is noticed 10 fold more than a team or corporation of people.
So I liken Jews and Judaism and Israel as that loner kid..and the rest of the world as "the crowd".
To a smaller scale, JTF is the loner kid to the Jewish world. We will overcome the adversity of the leftist secular crowd.
I hear you, but thats not a good answer of why we (Jews) should follow Judaism- G-d's laws. Think about it, lets say Jews were the dominent ones would that make a difference to the truth. I strive in following G-d's laws becuase its the truth that G-d has given. Judaism encourages and actually commands a Jew to learn its laws and learn why it can only be divine (threw investigating it over and over again you will see that it can only be divine and NOTHING in the world comes close to the Torah).
It's an interesting point which you mention. What if Judaism were the majority?
I'll answer that Judaism will never become the majority because Gd never intended on Israel being the majority. But on the other hand, that the poopulation of the nations be based on the nation of Israel.
Secondly, Judaism isn't a way of life that is easy to follow whether it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. It's not easy to be human and practicing Judaism...even from the time of birth. therefore, I dont' think it is possible for Judaism to be the majority.
-
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "
I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).
-
I would eat anything to stay alive.
Really? would you eat people?
If thats a yes, remind me never to be locked in a prison with you. ^-^
[/quote You never know until the situation happens. Lol I dont know if I can resort to that.
-
I would eat anything to stay alive.
Really? would you eat people?
If thats a yes, remind me never to be locked in a prison with you. ^-^
[/quote You never know until the situation happens. Lol I dont know if I can resort to that.
:::D I don't think it would be Kosher
-
If you're starving or there isn't any Kosher food to eat then eat anything edible. God created the food in this world for humans to survive not die.
Soon the world is going to start having problems in feeding the on growing populations.
-
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "
I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).
I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.
-
If you're starving or there isn't any Kosher food to eat then eat anything edible. G-d created the food in this world for humans to survive not die.
Soon the world is going to start having problems in feeding the on growing populations.
No you wouldn't, many will not eat anything that is not kosher. I would prefer to die than eat human or anything else that goes against my beliefs. After the first 7 days your stop feeling hungry anyway. No big deal.
One of the things you learn in the military is at times you might only have one meal a week. Great diet I can tell you. But you learn to control your body. Exactly the same as many prisoners.
The human body is an amazing machine.
-
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "
I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).
I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.
Okay, at least the first step go and keep Shabb-t - its Diorita- not Rabbinic.
-
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "
I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).
I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.
Okay, at least the first step go and keep Shabbat - its Diorita- not Rabbinic.
there you go again with Shabbat...Listen, i think about it every Saturday...the first thing i start with is a mind at ease...most of the time, I don't leave my apartment the full day..eventhough i will do what I do at home... I'm not trying to get approval from anyone, but to be strictly shomer shabbat is not somethign i want to do right now.
-
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "
I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).
I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.
Okay, at least the first step go and keep Shabbat - its Diorita- not Rabbinic.
there you go again with Shabbat...Listen, i think about it every Saturday...the first thing i start with is a mind at ease...most of the time, I don't leave my apartment the full day..eventhough i will do what I do at home... I'm not trying to get approval from anyone, but to be strictly shomer shabbat is not somethign i want to do right now.
I forgot, but you live in Roslyn or Great neck right? (not far from Queens?)
-
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "
I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).
I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.
Okay, at least the first step go and keep Shabbat - its Diorita- not Rabbinic.
there you go again with Shabbat...Listen, i think about it every Saturday...the first thing i start with is a mind at ease...most of the time, I don't leave my apartment the full day..eventhough i will do what I do at home... I'm not trying to get approval from anyone, but to be strictly shomer shabbat is not somethign i want to do right now.
I forgot, but you live in Roslyn or Great neck right? (not far from Queens?)
in NYC.
Here's the thing, Tzvi...i had thought about becoming much more observant at one point in my life. maybe even to a closer degree to the way yo uare..but my family isn't as observant and this would mean distancing myself from them. Should this take precendence over my family? I have seen some people go ahead and become much more religious on their own and i have seen the pain the parents felt when they kind of realized they might have lost their child to an ideology..nevertheless a good and righteous one. I'm sorry to say, but my life with my family as less observant, but still very righteous takes precendence and is much more important to me than being shomer shabbat by the letter of the law literally. I do believe there will be a point where me, my siblings, and my parents will very gradually become more and more observant and Gd willing, my wife and kids whenever Gd wishes to give me either of them. For me to suddenly become shomer shabbat and shomer kashrut or just relaly relaly super observant like you is impractical.
the reason why i stick around here on this forum and believe in JTF and Chaim is that Chaim, himself, even said that he won't necessarily rush the secular Israelis into super religious people if and when he or someone like him took power..but that it woudl become a gradual thing..through education, through positive reinforcement...and as long as he keeps his word to not hurry these things, I know that i can jump on that boat too.
So just understand, first and foremost is my family. They are righteous people who love Gd, who love Israel, who love life, who love Judaism and Torah, who love fellow Jews, who are kind tzadik people, even though not quite ready to be Orthodox. They, as myself, have chosen to have a balance with religion and secularism. I knwo this doesn't agree with the majority on this forum, but I have decided for myself, for now, especially after my recent visit to Israel, that this is the way I'm going to have to do it. I respect anything and everything every Rabbi had to say and write about a halakha and mitzva and all the power to anyone who goes all the way to be scrupulous about these things. I am more than willing to learn about it, but to practice certain things, just not for me right now.
-
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "
I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).
I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.
Okay, at least the first step go and keep Shabbat - its Diorita- not Rabbinic.
there you go again with Shabbat...Listen, i think about it every Saturday...the first thing i start with is a mind at ease...most of the time, I don't leave my apartment the full day..eventhough i will do what I do at home... I'm not trying to get approval from anyone, but to be strictly shomer shabbat is not somethign i want to do right now.
I forgot, but you live in Roslyn or Great neck right? (not far from Queens?)
in NYC.
Here's the thing, Tzvi...i had thought about becoming much more observant at one point in my life. maybe even to a closer degree to the way yo uare..but my family isn't as observant and this would mean distancing myself from them. Should this take precendence over my family? I have seen some people go ahead and become much more religious on their own and i have seen the pain the parents felt when they kind of realized they might have lost their child to an ideology..nevertheless a good and righteous one. I'm sorry to say, but my life with my family as less observant, but still very righteous takes precendence and is much more important to me than being shomer shabbat by the letter of the law literally. I do believe there will be a point where me, my siblings, and my parents will very gradually become more and more observant and Gd willing, my wife and kids whenever Gd wishes to give me either of them. For me to suddenly become shomer shabbat and shomer kashrut or just relaly relaly super observant like you is impractical.
the reason why i stick around here on this forum and believe in JTF and Chaim is that Chaim, himself, even said that he won't necessarily rush the secular Israelis into super religious people if and when he or someone like him took power..but that it woudl become a gradual thing..through education, through positive reinforcement...and as long as he keeps his word to not hurry these things, I know that i can jump on that boat too.
So just understand, first and foremost is my family. They are righteous people who love Gd, who love Israel, who love life, who love Judaism and Torah, who love fellow Jews, who are kind tzadik people, even though not quite ready to be Orthodox. They, as myself, have chosen to have a balance with religion and secularism. I knwo this doesn't agree with the majority on this forum, but I have decided for myself, for now, especially after my recent visit to Israel, that this is the way I'm going to have to do it. I respect anything and everything every Rabbi had to say and write about a halakha and mitzva and all the power to anyone who goes all the way to be scrupulous about these things. I am more than willing to learn about it, but to practice certain things, just not for me right now.
I can write a lot about this and maybe I will come back and add more.
The first thing is that my family is also not religious and I wasn't allways religious myself.
Even though my family isnt religious, to tell you the truth im much closer to my parents then from many of the people I know who either the whole family is secular or religious in many cases. Most of the secular do drugs and barly speak to their parents.
I do respect my parents and do talk, also I try to get them to keep mitzvot and say brahot, but it all comes down to the individual to decide. I do respect my parents (I try my best) but I also tell them the truth when it applies to them even though they might not like it. For example when talking about kids, etc. I straight out told my dad that I wont let him be the Sandak of my kid, becuase he is Mihalel Shabbat and I dont want my future kid to get the influnces from that.
"but still very righteous takes precendence and is much more important to me than being shomer shabbat by the letter of the law literally."
One cant be called rightious and be Mihalel Shabbat. And you dont deserve execution by stoning by not being a nice person, but you do when you break Shabbat. Even though its obviously important to keep all the mitzvot and to respect and honor others, that still doesnt excuse one from keeping such an important Mitzvah of Shabbat.
You want your family to gradually keep mitzvot then you should start and be the example. Belive me even if they scream at you and call you crazy, after some time it will stop (they will accept you), and then even slowly (or G-d willing if your lucky and they really learn) quickly follow you.
First of all you have to also love yourself (your true self- your soul). If your family and many others around you (unfortunatly) are doing suicide every Shabbat, then why cant you at least save yourself?
Another point. You never know when you will die. Someone who breaks Shabbat G-d promises to cut them out of the nation of Israel (maybe except the Tinok Shinishba(however you say it) )- but you know the consequences.
+ if you love your parents then you should work on correcting yourself and being rightious (in G-ds "eyes" not your limite dunderstanding, becuase the Ben Ish Chai brings down that children can atone for their parents and elevate their souls after they pass away (threw Kaddish and doing Mitzvot).
-
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57. He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either. I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves. The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant. Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something.
-
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57. He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either. I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves. The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant. Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something.
True!
I wish ALL liberal Jews were as good as Dannycookie.
-
And as a side note, the reason why many not religious Jews are questioning the oral law is because almost no one really knows and understands the oral law fully and how to explain it to people logically. I thought about this myself for several years and I finally understand the oral law almost fully with it's inherent mathematical perfection and beauty and so far no Rabbi I met knows it as well as I do.
-
And as a side note, the reason why many not religious Jews are questioning the oral law is because almost no one really knows and understands the oral law fully and how to explain it to people logically. I thought about this myself for several years and I finally understand the oral law almost fully with it's inherent mathematical perfection and beauty and so far no Rabbi I met knows it as well as I do.
Did you ever see the film "Pie"? Did you understand what they were trying to solve mathematically and how Hebrew was involved?
-
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57. He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either. I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves. The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant. Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something.
Thank you.
-
And as a side note, the reason why many not religious Jews are questioning the oral law is because almost no one really knows and understands the oral law fully and how to explain it to people logically. I thought about this myself for several years and I finally understand the oral law almost fully with it's inherent mathematical perfection and beauty and so far no Rabbi I met knows it as well as I do.
Did you ever see the film "Pie"? Did you understand what they were trying to solve mathematically and how Hebrew was involved?
The film was "Pi," although I would love to see "Pie" (as long as it's kosher).
-
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57. He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either. I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves. The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant. Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something.
What a horrible post, really. Just when I was getting to the guy, you put words which would influence him and others of justifying breaking Shabbat.
-
What a horrible post, really. Just when I was getting to the guy, you put words which would influence him and others of justifying breaking Shabbat.
We're all entitled to our own opinion, if you don't agree with my post than ignore it and do your own thing. I admit that there is a Torah source to your approach in the Tanach about reproaching people aggressively to repent. I got a feeling that you are assuming things wrongly about people, I assume the best about my fellow Jews and think our fellow holy Jew keeps the Sabbath Biblically speaking. I also stand by my post as many people in this era are harmed by an aggressive approach and more is accomplished by being very gentile and patient.
-
What a horrible post, really. Just when I was getting to the guy, you put words which would influence him and others of justifying breaking Shabbat.
We're all entitled to our own opinion, if you don't agree with my post than ignore it and do your own thing. I admit that there is a Torah source to your approach in the Tanach about reproaching people aggressively to repent. I got a feeling that you are assuming things wrongly about people, I assume the best about my fellow Jews and think our fellow holy Jew keeps the Sabbath Biblically speaking. I also stand by my post as many people in this era are harmed by an aggressive approach and more is accomplished by being very gentile and patient.
I never said I hate, the opposite, I would like and would love Jews to see the truth and not break Mitzvot and then have to suffer for it. G-d is not a lier, when He warns for sins expecially for example Shabbat - that a Mihalel would be cut out of the nation of Israel (except real repentence) and all the other punishments, then its serious stuff.
-
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57. He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either. I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves. The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant. Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something.
What a horrible post, really. Just when I was getting to the guy, you put words which would influence him and others of justifying breaking Shabbat.
Tzvi you weren't getting to me..sorry to burst your bubble.
and nobody is encouraging me to break shabbat. Shabbat has a different meaning to me than it does for you right now.
but believe me, everytime I think about Shabbat, I do think about what you have to say about it, so I have taken it to heart..so not all is lost. The thing is Jews have two choices: to wander the desert for 40 years till they find the promised land, or take that shortcut right then and there. My friend, I'm a wanderer...that's the only way I'll learn...but by all means, you can take that short cut if you want.
-
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57. He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either. I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves. The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant. Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something.
What a horrible post, really. Just when I was getting to the guy, you put words which would influence him and others of justifying breaking Shabbat.
Tzvi you weren't getting to me..sorry to burst your bubble.
and nobody is encouraging me to break shabbat. Shabbat has a different meaning to me than it does for you right now.
but believe me, everytime I think about Shabbat, I do think about what you have to say about it, so I have taken it to heart..so not all is lost. The thing is Jews have two choices: to wander the desert for 40 years till they find the promised land, or take that shortcut right then and there. My friend, I'm a wanderer...that's the only way I'll learn...but by all means, you can take that short cut if you want.
By your own example you should learn something. Do you know what happened to all (except 2) Jews who wondered in the dessert? They all died out.
I didnt take any short-cut. It takes a lot of time in learning and following all laws, etc. But Im just saying Shabbat has to be started, and its like saying okay I wont be a murderer, but just let me kill murder a few people and then maybe I'll change. (you get the analogy)
-
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57. He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either. I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves. The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant. Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something.
What a horrible post, really. Just when I was getting to the guy, you put words which would influence him and others of justifying breaking Shabbat.
Tzvi you weren't getting to me..sorry to burst your bubble.
and nobody is encouraging me to break shabbat. Shabbat has a different meaning to me than it does for you right now.
but believe me, everytime I think about Shabbat, I do think about what you have to say about it, so I have taken it to heart..so not all is lost. The thing is Jews have two choices: to wander the desert for 40 years till they find the promised land, or take that shortcut right then and there. My friend, I'm a wanderer...that's the only way I'll learn...but by all means, you can take that short cut if you want.
Danny, here is my suggestion. Keep one Shabbat. Fully keep it, Shul and everything. And then see how you feel. I can guarantee that by Motzaei Shabbat, you will have a different outlook than you did on Friday night. This is coming from a relatively recent Baal Teshuva who did the same thing. :)
-
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57. He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either. I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves. The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant. Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something.
What a horrible post, really. Just when I was getting to the guy, you put words which would influence him and others of justifying breaking Shabbat.
Tzvi you weren't getting to me..sorry to burst your bubble.
and nobody is encouraging me to break shabbat. Shabbat has a different meaning to me than it does for you right now.
but believe me, everytime I think about Shabbat, I do think about what you have to say about it, so I have taken it to heart..so not all is lost. The thing is Jews have two choices: to wander the desert for 40 years till they find the promised land, or take that shortcut right then and there. My friend, I'm a wanderer...that's the only way I'll learn...but by all means, you can take that short cut if you want.
Danny, here is my suggestion. Keep one Shabbat. Fully keep it, Shul and everything. And then see how you feel. I can guarantee that by Motzaei Shabbat, you will have a different outlook than you did on Friday night. This is coming from a relatively recent Baal Teshuva who did the same thing. :)
Don't get wrong, i have done exactlyt his before in the past...I have nothing against it. I do believe it is the right thing to do. However, I'm just not a very observant religious person compared to the majority of you. I completely look up to you guys for doing all of that and may Gd give me and my family the strength and ability and willingly get to where you guys are. I just want you all to understand this is how i feel and how my parents feel.
However, it's not as simple as it seems to the rest of you.
first off, I know what i will need to do once I, Gd willing become a husband and father...that's my next goal with Gd's help. If I find the right wife, then me and her and slowly grow together in this way very gradually..and definately not over night.
believe, I'm capable of all of this. I just don't want to suddenly do this and then over night change my mind and go in teh opposite direction...moderation in religion and secular life for me is the best way to start.