JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: christians4jews on December 02, 2007, 01:58:27 PM
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As the thread title says...I genuwinely cant find what is the oldest torah in the world is, and where is it kept...
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Aleppo Codex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleppo_Codex
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Aleppo Codex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleppo_Codex
Sorry what i meant was writings of the books, so for example are there any torah chapters/books older than the dead sea scrolls.
Thanks...
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Aleppo Codex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleppo_Codex
Sorry what i meant was writings of the books, so for example are there any torah chapters/books older than the dead sea scrolls.
Thanks...
Sure, there are pages that were found in Judea that was written in the 7th century B.C.E
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Aleppo Codex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleppo_Codex
Sorry what i meant was writings of the books, so for example are there any torah chapters/books older than the dead sea scrolls.
Thanks...
Sure, there are pages that were found in Judea that was written in the 7th century B.C.E
nice, do you have any infom on them, thanks...
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http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3062895,00.html
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Aleppo Codex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleppo_Codex
Does he mean a Sefer Torah, or just a copy of the text? Because if I'm not mistaken, the Aleppo codex is just a Tanach.
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That would be the dead sea scrolls which is the oldest complete copy written in Hebrew and date to about 100BC. Although written by some heretics who only believed in the written law, it is 99% identical to the Massoraic version of the Torah. Josephous writes a summary of the Bible as well over a hundred and fifty years later but it is simply a summary written in Greek. The Nash Papyrus is from about 150 B.C.E. and contains a prayer listing the ten commandments in Hebrew which was read at that time before saying the Shema http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_Papyrus. That is the oldest Hebrew writing containing portions of the Bible.
The Aleppo codex used to contain the whole Torah before the muslims rioted and lost a good portion of it and it was copied directly from Masoraic manuscripts (meaning Orthodox Torah Jews) dating to the 1000 century B.C.E. based on widely confirmed historical writings about it but the manuscript itself is from the year 1000 or so. The original manuscript in the 1000 century B.C.E. that it was copied from have probably long turned into dust after such a long time.
According to Judaism, the first temple had on display the original Torah that Moses himself wrote so that Jews would go there and use it to copy other scrolls from as to make a genuine copy of the Torah. What happened to this scroll after the destruction of the first temple is unknown, but the scroll was most likely hidden under the temple with the ark.
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According to Judaism, the first temple had on display the original Torah that Moses himself wrote so that Jews would go there and use it to copy other scrolls from as to make a genuine copy of the Torah. What happened to this scroll after the destruction of the first temple is unknown, but the scroll was most likely hidden under the temple with the ark.
If it could be dug up... That would be a serious poke in the eye for those that say that the bible has been corrupted.
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According to Judaism, the first temple had on display the original Torah that Moses himself wrote so that Jews would go there and use it to copy other scrolls from as to make a genuine copy of the Torah. What happened to this scroll after the destruction of the first temple is unknown, but the scroll was most likely hidden under the temple with the ark.
If it could be dug up... That would be a serious poke in the eye for those that say that the bible has been corrupted.
They(muSSlims) are already poked in the eye. Because if what they claim is true, there would be an 'original muSSlim' Torah dug up by now. There never has been. All Torah scrolls dug up everywhere are identical and the same as today's Torah. They've found dead sea scrolls and gnostic gospels but not ONE single 'pre corruption' Torah.
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The Aleppo Codex. The Rambam used the Codex to write his Mishne Torah. My uncles relative by the name of Faham smuggled the Codex out of Syria. Many Syrian Jews have little slips of the Codex till this day. A friend of mines grandfather has a piece in his wallet up till last month, when he donated it to a museum in Israel.
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The Aleppo Codex. The Rambam used the Codex to write his Mishne Torah. My uncles relative by the name of Faham smuggled the Codex out of Syria. Many Syrian Jews have little slips of the Codex till this day. A friend of mines grandfather has a piece in his wallet up till last month, when he donated it to a museum in Israel.
That's very irresponsible and selfish of them. They should all donate it to the museum where the rest of it is held so that this vital document is restored.
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I know this is a really stupid question but what happened to the tablets themselves, do you think it would ever possible to find them or accidently come upon them whatever state they may be in?
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I know this is a really stupid question but what happened to the tablets themselves, do you think it would ever possible to find them or accidently come upon them whatever state they may be in?
They were in the ark.
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The Aleppo Codex. The Rambam used the Codex to write his Mishne Torah. My uncles relative by the name of Faham smuggled the Codex out of Syria. Many Syrian Jews have little slips of the Codex till this day. A friend of mines grandfather has a piece in his wallet up till last month, when he donated it to a museum in Israel.
That's very irresponsible and selfish of them. They should all donate it to the museum where the rest of it is held so that this vital document is restored.
I agree. When 1947, after Israel was proclaimed a state, the Arabs trashed the shul in Aleppo. People dressed up as Arab women, and went to save some of the codex. It was in a vault in the basement. My grandfather (he was there) says that they set fire to the shul, and that the codex was probably semi burnt. He said that some leaves were destroyed, but some of the pages were only partially destroyed, so people had to pick them up dressed as Arab women. This is how some people got them. I think there are many more in existance.
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In actuality every kosher Sefer Torah is like the original. Jews everywhere have the same Sefer Torah whether they lived in Russia, England or Yemen , etc.
But other religions have thousands of different texts claiming to be divine. (christianity for example have 150,000 different, islam has also thousands of different (but not as much).
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I thought, that the silver strips, which were found in Ketef Hinnom near Jerusalem are the oldest texts from the bible that scientist have found.
I have read, that on the silverstrips is engraved the Ahronitic blessing. The silverstrips should come from the 6. or 7. century before c.t.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketef_Hinnom
(http://www.anst.uu.se/linpe458/skanna0003.jpg)
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I thought, that the silver strips, which were found in Ketef Hinnom near Jerusalem are the oldest texts from the bible that scientist have found.
I have read, that on the silverstrips is engraved the Ahronitic blessing. The silverstrips should come from the 6. or 7. century before c.t.
Yes! You are correct. I forgot about these. These silver strips are the oldest writings from the Bible known.
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I thought, that the silver strips, which were found in Ketef Hinnom near Jerusalem are the oldest texts from the bible that scientist have found.
I have read, that on the silverstrips is engraved the Ahronitic blessing. The silverstrips should come from the 6. or 7. century before c.t.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketef_Hinnom
(http://www.anst.uu.se/linpe458/skanna0003.jpg)
I like the pics of the silverstrips very nice indeed. :)
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The Aleppo Codex. The Rambam used the Codex to write his Mishne Torah. My uncles relative by the name of Faham smuggled the Codex out of Syria. Many Syrian Jews have little slips of the Codex till this day. A friend of mines grandfather has a piece in his wallet up till last month, when he donated it to a museum in Israel.
That's very irresponsible and selfish of them. They should all donate it to the museum where the rest of it is held so that this vital document is restored.
I agree. When 1947, after Israel was proclaimed a state, the Arabs trashed the shul in Aleppo. People dressed up as Arab women, and went to save some of the codex. It was in a vault in the basement. My grandfather (he was there) says that they set fire to the shul, and that the codex was probably semi burnt. He said that some leaves were destroyed, but some of the pages were only partially destroyed, so people had to pick them up dressed as Arab women. This is how some people got them. I think there are many more in existance.
Wow, that is an amazing story. I'm glad those Jews thought of a clever idea to save most of it. That's very risky what they did and I'm happy it worked. My grandfather was working in the Russian Railroad during world war II and he was asked to transport a smuggled Torah scroll from an area of Siberia to a Jewish community a distance away and he denied since he couldn't do it without getting caught by the government and arrested. He's still sad about this till this day. But Hashem gave him another chance several years later when he ran into a burning Shul with a bunch of other Jews and saved the Torahs from burning.
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Do you recken they will dig up some even older sections of the torah???
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This I probably written somewhere but I don't know where:
I would think that when Mashiach comes, we will re-discover the original Sefer Torah that was written by Moshe Rabbenu and found during Yoshiyahu's time.