JTF.ORG Forum
Guns and Self-Defense => Guns/Firearms => Topic started by: mord on December 16, 2007, 08:16:35 AM
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http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/124587
Israeli-Made Tavor Assault Rifle to Replace M-16 Among Infantry
by Ezra HaLevi
(IsraelNN.com) After several years of trial usage by the IDF’s Givati Brigade, the Israeli-made Tavor assault rifle will be deployed among infantry units throughout Judea and Samaria in the near future.
Soldiers who enlisted November, 2006 and later are now being deployed as the first batch of recruits to be trained with the lightweight, futuristic weapon.
The Tavor is specially designed for urban combat. Its center of gravity is located in the rear and is much lighter and shorter-barreled than the US-made M-16, currently the weapon of choice in most of the IDF.
The Tavor’s body is made from alloy metal substitutes and is very well insulated so that it does not heat up after prolonged firing. The Tavor is not equipped with normal metal sights that require closing one eye for shooting. Instead, the Tavor uses a laser sight in which the soldier sees both the target and the red dot, which, when aligned, will result in a direct hit.
During the past years of trials with the Tavor, more than a few problems were identified. This led the head of the Givati Brigade to decide at the last minute that the August ’06 recruits would continue to use M-16s due to jamming issues with the Tavor. The latest generation of the weapon, however, has resolved the issues and the Golani and Kfir Brigades have now received Tavors.
Four versions of the gun are available – the basic assault rifle configuration, a sharp-shooting squad weapon, a short commando version and a micro version for security detail and special forces. The commando version weighs 2.8 kg (6.2 pounds) compared with the Uzi's 3.7 kg (8.2 pounds) and M-16's 3.4 kg (7.5 pounds).
"The Tavor would be useful anywhere where close quarters battle is the rule, and from vehicles," Charles Cutshaw, firearms editor at Jane's International Defense Review Magazine, said. “It has large vents to prevent dust clogs and sights allowing the shooter to aim with both eyes open. The Tavor spells the end, locally, of the M-16, a staple assault rifle supplied to Israel since the early 1970s as part of Washington's annual defense grants.”
The M-16 has long been the subject of complaints by IDF soldiers. It was designed for Vietnam-style tropical climates and frequently jams in the desert. In addition, most of the rifles Israel received from the US were army surplus and in need of refurbishing. Despite this, the M-16 replaced Israeli-made Uzi and Galil guns, which were sold mostly to clients in Africa and South America.
Indian and Georgian special forces, as well as the Columbia army and police forces, have already ordered and phased in the Tavor.
Due to the huge number of M-16s already in the IDF's armories, as well as the cost of producing Tavors, the complete replacement of the M-16 with the Israeli-made weapon is still far off.
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Isn't this the gun that shoots around corners?
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No thats a different one
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Here's hoping the Tavor will be used with extreme prejudice to produce vast quantities of moooooozie swiss cheese.
May the Tavor become the primary source of moooozie high velocity lead poisoning !
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The barrel might be a little shorter, but it's an optical illusion, because the barrel reaches almost to the shoulder INSIDE the body of the weapon.
Furthermore, the red dot sight isn't a laser sight, at least not in the way most people will imagine it.
Finally, the M16 jams ANYTIME, ANYWHERE, even when "immaculately cleaned", as instructed in order to prevent jams.
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India also bought tavor for its special forces to kick porki ass O0
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India also bought tavor for its special forces to kick porki donkey O0
good to hear O0
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Hoping they come out with a semi-auto civilian version, I want one for home defense. 8)
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Here a video clip of the Tavor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVPYKNAo47Y
And here of the "Corner Shot" gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAplAzb2Y5c
(http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/tavor/tavor.jpg)
(http://www.defensereview.com/1_31_2004/corner_shot_07.jpg)
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Personally, I'm not a big fan of bullpup-configuration weapons...they just don't "feel right" to me, but then I am more interested in good long-range shooting rather than blasting about cities.
I don't see why they're sticking with the .223 cartridge, though. I much prefer .308 (as used in the M-14). And I would want a gun that still had iron sights - I like red-dot optics but the more complicated something is, the more chances it'll break under stress. Even the world's best scopes can be cracked.
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The Israeli designed/made Galil war the best combat rifle in the world. All the rugged reliability of the AK 47 with better ergonomics.
It was only killed off because of the f__!* foreign aid & dirt cheap M16s! >:(
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If you want a long-range bullpup that fires .308, the Israelis can also oblige you!
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn66-e.htm
(http://world.guns.ru/sniper/tci_m89.jpg)
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If you want a long-range bullpup that fires .308, the Israelis can also oblige you!
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn66-e.htm
(http://world.guns.ru/sniper/tci_m89.jpg)
It's a reconfigured M14/ M21.
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Although it may not sound much, but the Israeli bullpup's 850mm length and 4.5kg weight can count a lot to some soldiers in real combat, versus the M21's 1118mm and 5.27kg.
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I'd rather pack 9lbs of Galil that works 100% of the time than 7.5 lbs of M16 that constantly jams and fouls up.
I've heard of US soldiers in Iraq junking their M16s in favour of M14s despite the extra weight.
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The M-16 has long been the subject of complaints by IDF soldiers. It was designed for Vietnam-style tropical climates and frequently jams in the desert. In addition, most of the rifles Israel received from the US were army surplus and in need of refurbishing. Despite this, the M-16 replaced Israeli-made Uzi and Galil guns, which were sold mostly to clients in Africa and South America.
Are Israeli planners crazy??
Galil is a good, reliable weapon. A bit heavy though.
But they should lose the M-16 as fast as possible. This is a perfect example how the American "aid" hearts Israel.
The Tavor is a very good news. It's light, reliable, designed specifically for the type of missions fulfilled by IDF, and (very important) Israeli made.
Btw., I like bullpup guns. Several European armies are using them exclusively.
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Isn't this the gun that shoots around corners?
whatch the video its sick
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idk much about weapons but i know israelis come up with sick guns i loved corner shot and this is crazy one
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The tavor is is very accurate a distant range i saw it being used
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The Galil is a good gun, but like all guns it has problems, according to this its weight and accuracy, making it not too popular in Israel itself http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/small-arms-personal-weapons/1515-galil-assault-rifle.html
Though bank robber Tom Sizemore used a Galil with good effect in the film "Heat" to blow away many of LA's finest!
(http://www.imfdb.org/images/9/92/Heat-AK74.jpg)
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i don't like the bullpup designs either. It looks too futuristic to me.
Oh the Galil, what an immaculate weapon that is! So much so, that the South Africans used the dewsigns to make their own types, the R2-5 ranges. Superb weapons!
However, don't get me wrong, the Tavor seems like a really great weapon! Great accuracy, and little recoil by the looks of it (better design and the position and length of the weapon position to the body). But more importantly, it will save Israeli lives in urban warfare. Designed by Jewish excellence, what more can you ask for ;)
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AK-47 is even better than M-16.
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AK-47 is even better than M-16.
you're very right! In Vietnam some us soldiers actually abandoned their new M-16's for vietnamese Ak's. Ofcourse, this made them vulnerable to friendly fire-but the advantages of using such a great gun made it worth it
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AK-47 is even better than M-16.
you're very right! In Vietnam some us soldiers actually abandoned their new M-16's for vietnamese Ak's. Ofcourse, this made them vulnerable to friendly fire-but the advantages of using such a great gun made it worth it
yeah I heard about that.
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AK-47 is even better than M-16.
you're very right! In Vietnam some us soldiers actually abandoned their new M-16's for vietnamese Ak's. Ofcourse, this made them vulnerable to friendly fire-but the advantages of using such a great gun made it worth it
The AK-47 is more reliable than the M-16. No doubt. But that is its only advantage. You can shoot further and straighter with an M-16. The M-16 has a much better safety system, it can be accessorized much further/better, etc. The AK-47 has a bigger bullet, but not big enough to make a difference.
Neither of them hold a candle to the M-14/M1A, though ;-)
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AK-47 is even better than M-16.
you're very right! In Vietnam some us soldiers actually abandoned their new M-16's for vietnamese Ak's. Ofcourse, this made them vulnerable to friendly fire-but the advantages of using such a great gun made it worth it
The AK-47 is more reliable than the M-16. No doubt. But that is its only advantage. You can shoot further and straighter with an M-16. The M-16 has a much better safety system, it can be accessorized much further/better, etc. The AK-47 has a bigger bullet, but not big enough to make a difference.
Neither of them hold a candle to the M-14/M1A, though ;-)
Hi WestcoastJTF,
What do you think about FN - Belgian weapons?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Minimi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/P90_Cyprus.jpg/180px-P90_Cyprus.jpg)
thanks
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I've played with the FN-FALs...haven't tried others. The real FN-FALs and early civilian versions are great, but there has been a lot of crappy copies over the years. But the overall design is excellent.
I really prefer .308 to the newer .223. I like .223 for some things, but for combat, .308 is better. .223 is easier on logistics (a man can carry more rounds, hence shoot more freely, hence doesn't have to be trained as well) and tends to cause more injuries than fatalities, which are more draining on the enemy. But for a civilian, I prefer .308.
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Great. After a white racist committed a 3-double murder on a turkish , a black woman, and a belgian baby, our already sever gun laws have been stricter.
It is almost impossible to get a license to buy a gun now.
You need to be a member of a shooting - club for that.
But in order to become member of a shooting cub, you need to have a license to buy weapons.
a bit bolshevistic isn't it?
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AK-47 is even better than M-16.
you're very right! In Vietnam some us soldiers actually abandoned their new M-16's for vietnamese Ak's. Ofcourse, this made them vulnerable to friendly fire-but the advantages of using such a great gun made it worth it
The AK-47 is more reliable than the M-16. No doubt. But that is its only advantage. You can shoot further and straighter with an M-16. The M-16 has a much better safety system, it can be accessorized much further/better, etc. The AK-47 has a bigger bullet, but not big enough to make a difference.
Neither of them hold a candle to the M-14/M1A, though ;-)
Hi WestcoastJTF,
What do you think about FN - Belgian weapons?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Minimi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/P90_Cyprus.jpg/180px-P90_Cyprus.jpg)
thanks
I love the P-90 !
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You ever saw it in action?
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You ever saw it in action?
Only in videos. I'd love to buy one, but they're very expensive here..
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I thought they were only sold to armies,
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I thought they were only sold to armies,
In America, as a civilian, you can buy assault rifles. Check it out. http://bushmaster.com/catalog_defense_recreation_index.asp (http://bushmaster.com/catalog_defense_recreation_index.asp) got your credit card ready? ;) The law here is that the rifle can not be fully automatic like a machine gun, only semi-automatic, then they are legal. If the tavor is made into a semi-automatic version it will be legal to buy in the US. I bet you that in a couple of years Bushmaster.com will have a semi-auto Tavor for sale in their cataloge, I'd get one. 8)
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The Belgians make some good weapons like the FN Five Seven pistol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USeSpRoKZf4
and FN P90 submachine gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyJEEISVTd4
that both fire the 5.7mm round that'll easily defeat Kevlar body armour.
(http://images.military.com/pics/SoldierTech_PDW5.jpg)
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I like the P90, it's cool. I don't think a civilian version is available. Darnit. :)
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Belgian FN's? Oh yes, theire magnificant brands! Just ask a South African-they won wars with those weapons O0
But i see the Germans are becoming big these days with their Heckler and Koch's eg. G36, G36E etc. Magnificent weapons!
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are black terrorist in mugabia killing whites with FN's ?
Please say they are not available for these murderers...
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are black terrorist in mugabia killing whites with FN's ?
Please say they are not available for these murderers...
Well, FAL's were sold throughout Afrika. The Rhodesians used them to kill terrorists ;) But no doubt with the fall of whites there, it fell into their hands. But ofcourse, AK's remain a favourite for those devils. So feel good about it, your weaspons did a good job in Afrika O0
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I've shot both.
The M16, shoot at someone and you usually get 3 bullets into them, the Tavor you shoot then you got to re-aim.
I prefer the M16...
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I thought they were only sold to armies,
In America, as a civilian, you can buy assault rifles. Check it out. http://bushmaster.com/catalog_defense_recreation_index.asp (http://bushmaster.com/catalog_defense_recreation_index.asp) got your credit card ready? ;) The law here is that the rifle can not be fully automatic like a machine gun, only semi-automatic, then they are legal. If the tavor is made into a semi-automatic version it will be legal to buy in the US. I bet you that in a couple of years Bushmaster.com will have a semi-auto Tavor for sale in their cataloge, I'd get one. 8)
There are only 8 states that you can not buy fully automatics. 42 states allow fully auto sales - including PA and CT. But you can't buy a full-auto that was built after 1987.
The P-90 does come in semi-auto, the full-auto is not available to the public.
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I thought they were only sold to armies,
In America, as a civilian, you can buy assault rifles. Check it out. http://bushmaster.com/catalog_defense_recreation_index.asp (http://bushmaster.com/catalog_defense_recreation_index.asp) got your credit card ready? ;) The law here is that the rifle can not be fully automatic like a machine gun, only semi-automatic, then they are legal. If the tavor is made into a semi-automatic version it will be legal to buy in the US. I bet you that in a couple of years Bushmaster.com will have a semi-auto Tavor for sale in their cataloge, I'd get one. 8)
There are only 8 states that you can not buy fully automatics. 42 states allow fully auto sales - including PA and CT. But you can't buy a full-auto that was built after 1987.
The P-90 does come in semi-auto, the full-auto is not available to the public.
thus bullets penetrate many layers of kevlar. Is it unique in it class to do this, or are there other guns on the market that do the same?
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I wonder why Israel keeps using american made arms. To me I see it puts a strangle hold on Israel.
$$$$ is what rules the world
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I thought they were only sold to armies,
In America, as a civilian, you can buy assault rifles. Check it out. http://bushmaster.com/catalog_defense_recreation_index.asp (http://bushmaster.com/catalog_defense_recreation_index.asp) got your credit card ready? ;) The law here is that the rifle can not be fully automatic like a machine gun, only semi-automatic, then they are legal. If the tavor is made into a semi-automatic version it will be legal to buy in the US. I bet you that in a couple of years Bushmaster.com will have a semi-auto Tavor for sale in their cataloge, I'd get one. 8)
There are only 8 states that you can not buy fully automatics. 42 states allow fully auto sales - including PA and CT. But you can't buy a full-auto that was built after 1987.
The P-90 does come in semi-auto, the full-auto is not available to the public.
Cool 8) Check this out, it is available. http://dynamicarmament.com/items/fn-herstal/ps90grn-ps90-detail.htm (http://dynamicarmament.com/items/fn-herstal/ps90grn-ps90-detail.htm).