JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chaim Ben Pesach on January 19, 2008, 11:57:07 PM
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בס''ד
It was close but unfortunately John McCain beat Mike Huckabee in South Carolina. The final vote was: McCain 33%, Huckabee 30%.
Huckabee had to win South Carolina to remain a viable candidate. If Huckabee could not win in a Southern state where the majority of Republican voters are evangelical Christians, then it is obvious that he cannot and will not win in primaries like Florida, California, New York, Illinois and most of the other remaining states. Huckabee will continue to run in order to influence the process and in order to position himself for a future presidential race, but this year he is finished.
McCain is now the clear frontrunner both in Florida (the next big primary) and nationally. The odds are in his favor in the race for the Republican nomination. If he wins the Republican nomination, G-d forbid, then we will have a McCain-Clinton or a McCain-Obama race in November, which for us is a nightmare.
We must do everything in our power to try to stop McCain. If he wins in Florida on January 29, G-d forbid, he may have unstoppable momentum going into Super Tuesday on February 5, where 22 states will hold primaries and caucuses on the same day.
AT THIS POINT, IN MY OPINION, THE LAST CHANCE TO STOP MCCAIN IS WITH MITT ROMNEY. ROMNEY HAS THE MONEY, AND HE HAS SUPPORT FROM SOME KEY CONSERVATIVES INCLUDING RUSH LIMBAUGH, SEAN HANNITY, ANN COULTER, AND THE USUAL CONSERVATIVE ESTABLISMENT TYPES. AS MUCH AS I HATE ROMNEY, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A CHOICE AT THIS POINT. HE CERTAINLY IS BETTER THAN MCCAIN, CLINTON OR OBAMA.
If Huckabee had won in South Carolina, he would have been the Republican frontrunner and the whole situation would have been entirely different. We tried our best to help him. But now America, Israel and Western civilization have too much at stake to support someone who cannot win.
We will be going into Florida to try to help Romney and to try to defeat McCain. And I will be removing my anti-Romney videos from zootube, liveleak, yideoz and google. We will try our best and we will need the help of everyone. I hope people realize now just how serious this situation is.
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Chaim, if I could move to Israel right now I would but unfortunately thats not a possibility now. I feel like we have just lost and all the Muzzies, Shvartza chayos and illegals have one.
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Romney is in deep trouble because McCain's ground operation is now entirely headed by the Bush/Rove people, whose cronies populate the GOP establishment. This establishment, armed with funding and high-ranking politicians on the local level are willing to back him because:
A) They feel as though it is 'his turn'. Bush vs. McCain in South Carolina 2000 was one of the nastiest primaries in history, with McCain being on the receiving end of well-documented abuse/humiliation. Just as Skull and Bones members were initiated by rituals involving unnatural acts, McCain took his like a pro, so to speak, refusing to publicly blow the whistle on the Bush campaign's antics. He knew it was too late to do so.
B) McCain will enhance Bush's legacy. With the Iraq War and its handling being the biggest scar on Bush's legacy, McCain's unyielding commitment to the troop surge will benefit this.
C) They are prepared to back a lost cause. The lion's share of the money raised between the nomination and the election will be spent on keeping establishment politicians and their allies on the local level well-staffed, re-elected, and otherwise content. Romney's only it for himself...so even though he also is a lost cause, he wouldn't cooperate with that particular aim.
BUSH OWNS FLORIDA. WATCH OUT MITT!
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The situation is very sad.
I watched the republican debate in SC the other night, I must addmit that Huckabee was not effective at all. Even Ron Paul made more of good points, such as on Israel.
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I'll do my best to help. I also thought Romney was the correct pick to go forward, but I'm very disappointed right now. I don't like Willard :(
I can't help be angry with all the stupid Thompson supporters. If only they had realized Thompson's campaign is dead and voted for Huckabee instead, Huckabee would have outpaced McCain by a wide margin!
This happens every Republican primary, all the really conservative candidates get flushed early on, the ones I could still stomach easily get flushed later, and then I end up having to hold my nose and try not to vomit when I vote.
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The zombies on Free Republic are still supporting Thompson. Go figure.
The bastard was doing John McCains bidding. HE was the reason Huckabee lost. Now it's a Romney/McCain race, and Romney is not as bad as McCain.
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Yes, Romney and the other Republicans appear to be in trouble at this point and McCain is clearly the front runner.
Unfortunately, in addition to the factors Trumpeldor mentioned earlier in this thread, McCain has another powerful element working in his favor; the support of the mass media.
McCain is now being hailed as the Republican with the best chance of beating the Demoncraps.
However, as bleak as the situation is, it is not hopeless.
Despite all the factors working in his favor, McCain still doesn't have the support of the truly conservative wing of the Republican Party.
Keep in mind Independents were able to vote in the Republican SC primary. McCain will not be able to get their support in future primaries.
In another thread I asked what JTF's strategy should be if Huckabee's candidacy is doomed due to his narrow loss in SC.
Apparently, Chaim has chosen one of the options I posited - switching our support to Romney as the most viable alternative and the lesser of evils.
I think this is a decent strategy, but I would prefer a four pronged attack.
The most important prong is a relentless JTF campaign against McCain, coupled with a triple pronged effort to simultaneously bolster Guiliani, Huckabee and Romney.
Although it is unlikely, imagine the damage a 4th place finish in Florida would do to McCain's campaign ! This is not beyond the realm of possibility.
Additionally, we should be gearing up to firmly support Huckabee in Georgia where he has a solid lead. Crushing McCain everywhere possible should be a priority now.
The situation doesn't look good right now, but things have a way of changing rapidly in politics.
Situation bleak, but not hopeless. Let's continue to work to defeat McCain and we'll deal with Hitlery and Osama later.
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Doesn't the second place finisher get any of the delegates?
Also, I heard that Romney won in Wyoming and Nevada. Why don't those things help stop McCain? JTF never even mentioned those states' primariers/caucuses.
Each state made its own rules in terms of whether to give "winner-take-all" (labeled as WTA) or to distribute delegates proportionately. It's under the column of delegate selection process.
For the number of delegates for each state, in some of the earlier states (most in January) were penalized so multiple numbers are listed (the larger number being the number of delegates that they would have received and the smaller being the number that they will receive)
Wikipedia has a summary of each in order of date, whether each state is a caucus, primary, whether independents are allowed (if it says "open primary", that means independents are allowed)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)_presidential_primaries,_2008#Phase_three:_Super_Tuesday
Yes, Romney won in Wyoming and Nevada.
Wyoming was the same day as the NH primary. However, the media was obsessed with the NH primary and barely reported in the news that Romney won there. Rather, they focused on McCain's "comeback story" in NH.
And Nevada and SC were just the same day.
Romney is currently ahead of McCain in number of delegates by a little. Nevada was actually worth more delegates than SC. But you'd have no idea of that based on how the media reports.
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Also, on the Super Tuesday, there are a lot of delegates. If Romney, Giuliani and Huckabee could each get some states within particular regions, then the states McCain gets could potentially be limited and then he won't clinch the nomination on that day.
Tancredo needs to campaign against McCain in Colorodo. Hopefully, he'll do that.
McCain needs to go 0-4 in CA, NY, NJ and CT. I think these three states will vote similarly and combined, are worth about 355 delegates. So it's vital that McCain go 0-4 in these states. Giuliani needs to stay in the race regardless of what happens in Florida because maybe he could still win NY, NJ. And maybe Rudy or Romney would be able to win in CT.
If Thompson drops out, maybe Huckabee could sweep Alabama, Arkansas, Tennessee and Georgia, to get McCain 0-4 in those states.
If McCain could go 0-8 in all these states, then he shouldn't be able to dominate on Super Tuesday.
One of the GOP candidates needs to be able to defeat McCain in states like Illinois, Minnesota, Missouri and Montana.
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I won't support Romney because of his past voting record and his support for the assault weapon ban, we were warned about several candidates on the gun forums to not vote for (Mccain, Romney, and Guiliani were the big ones), why isn't Fred Thompson a possible selection?
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I won't support Romney because of his past voting record and his support for the assault weapon ban, we were warned about several candidates on the gun forums to not vote for (Mccain, Romney, and Guiliani were the big ones), why isn't Fred Thompson a possible selection?
After the two NH debates (the ones hosted by ABC and Fox News) and the day before the NH primary, Thompson left for South Carolina. He started a bus day that probably went ever day until the SC primary. And he barely came in 3rd.
SC is also a neighbor to Tennessee. If he barely placed 3rd in SC after campaigning hard there, he'd have a tough chance in most other states.
It's likely that he's going to end his campaign within the next week.
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I think Huckabee may still be able to pull it off. I mean, he has the second most delegates behind Romney. We can't really bet on that though.
Defeating McCain should be the number one priority.
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I think Huckabee may still be able to pull it off. I mean, he has the second most delegates behind Romney. We can't really bet on that though.
Defeating McCain should be the number one priority.
The pundits seem to think he is not out of it yet but South Carolina should have been a win for him. It shows he needs to try something different and quick.
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A lot of the conservatives in SC were split between Thompson and Huckabee, clearing the way for that disgusting creature McCain to sneak in.
I urge that Thompson Drop out before he does more damage to the GOP race...
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michael savage support romney too.You did the right thing mr.Chaim!!!!Now we all have to work together to defith McCain!I kow a lot of you don't like him,but he is the best what we got here now!if Thompson and Huckabee drop out now we could have Romney win in landslide!Evangelicals are split among Huckabee,Romney and Thomson and that is a reason why McCain won in S.Carolina!In my opinion people in Florida realize now what happend and you will see sudden rise of Mitt Romney in polls!Maybe as of today!!!Mr.Chaim did the right thing and we should all go for Romney!
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If Larry Flynt drops out, Huckabee might have some chance left. Fraud got more than half of the votes that Mike got (16%). If that oxygen-parasite had not been in the race, Huckabee would have handily beaten Hanoi John.
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I dont' want a republican practicing "Takkiya" on us to become president.
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Doesn't the second place finisher get any of the delegates?
Also, I heard that Romney won in Wyoming and Nevada. Why don't those things help stop McCain? JTF never even mentioned those states' primariers/caucuses.
Florida is a winner-take-all state.
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What should we do? Should we go to newspaper websites? Is the Florida Sun-Sentinel a good idea?
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A couple of years ago, I predicted that it would probably be a McCain vs. Hillary election. But then when McCain appeared dead in the water for a long while, I began to think twice about that. But now it seems like my original prediction might actually come to fruition. I imagine Chaim would have a very difficult time supporting McCain but would have no other choice if it turns out to be McCain vs. Hillary.
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if McCain-Hilary is a choise i am gona skip that election,stay at home.
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Fred Thompson ruined it for Huckabee. >:(
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Fred Thompson ruined it for Huckabee. >:(
I really don't buy that argument. I think Huckabee may have ruined it for himself. In he appearances in the last few weeks he has not been at his best. I think he took a false sense of security with all the talk that he was pulling ahead. We have to remember that whoever gets the nomination will be running against Hillery or Obama. Huck should have had South Carolina in his pocket Thompson or no Thompson. the fact that this was not the case says quite a bit. The fact that he could not make it against friendly rivals means he will most likely not make it against the more unfriendly ones. Whats the point of winning in the primary's only to go down in defeat in the general elections.
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If that half-dead Freddie Thompson hadn't have remained in, or if Romney had not pulled out Huckabee would have won. But I agree. Romney is now the only way to stop McCain.
I think Mitt Romney is a phoney on many of the issues but on the number one issue facing us, Islamic Jihad, he is very good and does come across as sincere and knowledgable. Romney and Huckabee are the only two candidates to speak about Jihad and seem aware that the Jihadists intention is to create another Caliphate encompassing the entire world. In on of the debates he even mentioned that he has read Sayyid Qutb who is the intellectual founder of the Muslim Brotherhood and modern day Islamic terrorism.
He has some good positions on Iran too. He refused a police escort for former Iranian president Mohammed Khatami when he was visiting Harvard. And last time Ahmadinejad went to the UN he called for the UN to revoke his invitation and instead charge him under the genocide convention for threatening Israel and that if the UN did not the United States should rethink its level of support and funding for the UN.
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What do you want us to do in Florida??
What discussion boards are best?
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Romney won't get North West Floridas vote, it's all Southern baptist here.
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Isn't there a chance Giuliani might siphon enough leftists from McCain in FL to cause him to lose? He has really been focusing on Florida.
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Honestly I don't think Huckabee is totally out of it yet but I think he has little or no room for error. In the end I don't really know if he can pull it off. Chaim knows whats best but I think we should still try to support Huckabee and hedge our bets with Romney. I think Chaim was correct taking all the anti Romney videos down. I really believe that this election cycle will have a few more surprises in it for us yet so I think its best not to pin all our hopes one guy. Right now my goal is to see McCain does not get the nomination.
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Chaim let us know where we should go next to comment. Do you have any blogs or forums in mind so we can post as a group?
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McCain must be stopped before it's too late, or we will be saying President Hitlery and Vice President Osama.
Everyone stop the Romney bashing.
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The zombies on Free Republic are still supporting Thompson. Go figure.
The bastard was doing John McCains bidding. HE was the reason Huckabee lost. Now it's a Romney/McCain race, and Romney is not as bad as McCain.
Some people at FreeRepublic supported Duncan Hunter. The ones who supported Thompson or still support Thompson were/are fools because they thought he was conservative. When he was in the senate, he was friends with McCain.
Thompson endorsed McCain in 2000 and will probably drop out soon and endorse him again.
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Romney is in deep trouble because McCain's ground operation is now entirely headed by the Bush/Rove people, whose cronies populate the GOP establishment. This establishment, armed with funding and high-ranking politicians on the local level are willing to back him because:
A) They feel as though it is 'his turn'. Bush vs. McCain in South Carolina 2000 was one of the nastiest primaries in history, with McCain being on the receiving end of well-documented abuse/humiliation. Just as Skull and Bones members were initiated by rituals involving unnatural acts, McCain took his like a pro, so to speak, refusing to publicly blow the whistle on the Bush campaign's antics. He knew it was too late to do so.
B) McCain will enhance Bush's legacy. With the Iraq War and its handling being the biggest scar on Bush's legacy, McCain's unyielding commitment to the troop surge will benefit this.
C) They are prepared to back a lost cause. The lion's share of the money raised between the nomination and the election will be spent on keeping establishment politicians and their allies on the local level well-staffed, re-elected, and otherwise content. Romney's only it for himself...so even though he also is a lost cause, he wouldn't cooperate with that particular aim.
BUSH OWNS FLORIDA. WATCH OUT MITT!
"The lion's share of the money raised between the nomination and the election will be spent on keeping establishment politicians and their allies on the local level well-staffed, re-elected, and otherwise content. Romney's only it for himself...so even though he also is a lost cause, he wouldn't cooperate with that particular aim."
Could you explain more about that? Does it mean that they want to raise money for Mel Martinez, a senator from Florida?
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The pundits seem to think he is not out of it yet but South Carolina should have been a win for him. It shows he needs to try something different and quick.
Huckabee thinks talking about an opponent is "attacking" an opponent and he's against doing that. So I don't think he pointed out to people in SC how McCain twice voted against a ban on gay marriage.
The gap between support from evangelical voters in SC wasn't that big.
I think McCain tricked some of them into believing that they could trust him on issues like abortion and marriage. Huckabee should have criticized how McCain twice voted against a ban on gay marriage.
On the other hand, of non evangelical voters in SC, McCain won decisively.
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If Larry Flynt drops out, Huckabee might have some chance left. Fraud got more than half of the votes that Mike got (16%). If that oxygen-parasite had not been in the race, Huckabee would have handily beaten Hanoi John.
Why do you call Thompson, Larry Flynt?
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Romney won't get North West Floridas vote, it's all Southern baptist here.
You live in Florida?
Tell us which districts are Republican and how to best reach
voters in those districts.
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I think the media is stupid. They decide who wins based on exaggerating on the winner while ignoring the reality of delegates. For example, Hitlery "won" in Nevada by the popular vote (Meaning they voted for her name.) but Osama won more delegates because more people voted for his delegates. I think it's stupid how the ballots list candidates and their delegates separately. It just confuses people. And because the campaigns get front loaded by the media, only 4 or 5 primaries that the media makes a big deal out of actually count towards anything so they are disenfranchising millions of voters.
You're correct. Usually after the first couple primaries, most
candidates drop out and there's only a couple left and the nomination
is close to being decided. The reason so many states
moved up their primary date for this election cycle is
because they wanted their state to have a say in who gets
nominated in each party. Each state feels like it deserves
an equal say. But then Iowa and NH both moved their
Caucus and Primary up because they think they have
a special right to always be the first states that vote.
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Here's the updated estimated total delegate distribution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2008_Republican_presidential_primaries
Florida is expected to be worth about 57. So it's important that McCain be defeated there.
If Huckabee wins Florida, McCain will be behind both he and Romney.. If Romney wins, he'll remain ahead of McCain in delegates. If Giuliani wins Florida, he'll be above McCain in delegates and Romney will still be ahead of McCain.
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Isn't there a chance Giuliani might siphon enough leftists from McCain in FL to cause him to lose? He has really been focusing on Florida.
Supposedly, some people already voted already with absentee ballots. Due to his spending a lot of time there, maybe Rudy got some of those votes.
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Why do you call Thompson, Larry Flynt?
Have you ever heard him talk?
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I think Huckabee may still be able to pull it off. I mean, he has the second most delegates behind Romney. We can't really bet on that though.
Defeating McCain should be the number one priority.
Yes, we must stop McCain for our #1 priority O0
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Romney won't get North West Floridas vote, it's all Southern baptist here.
You live in Florida?
Tell us which districts are Republican and how to best reach
voters in those districts.
I live in Okaloosa County, all regions in the panhandle are very conservative. Actually i've seen a few mixed signs, many are for Mccain, I've only seen a few that support Romney as he isn't popular amongst the religious here, and Ron Paul being pretty popular amongst the younger crowd.
(http://www.mapping-tools.com/info/samples/florida_3.gif)
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I live in Okaloosa County, all regions in the panhandle are very conservative. Actually i've seen a few mixed signs, many are for Mccain, I've only seen a few that support Romney as he isn't popular amongst the religious here, and Ron Paul being pretty popular amongst the younger crowd.
(http://www.mapping-tools.com/info/samples/florida_3.gif)
Thanks for the info. Update us with what you find out.
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Here in Orlando, I've been seeing mostly signs for Huckabee. I did see a few signs for McCain.
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WE NEED TO ALSO CONCENTRATE ON ATTACKING OBAMA. HE'S GAINING MOMENTUM EVERY DAY!
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WE NEED TO ALSO CONCENTRATE ON ATTACKING OBAMA. HE'S GAINING MOMENTUM EVERY DAY!
I think he will make it very easy for the GOP candidate to win in November. If anything, we should promote him until Clinton is out. Whomever the GOP candidate will be, he will have no trouble winning Obama. Clinton will be harder.
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This is bad. It looks like McCain won Florida. If McCain gets too much of an advantage, does this mean we'll have to hope for Hitlery over Osama. We can't support either one, but by default one of them will have to default McCain. Who can we support? We're going to need a third party candidate.
This whole election was run poorly. States should have not been allowed to vote at different times. Given that they were, they should not have been stripped of delegates. I'm upset now.
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It's going to be McCain and Hiltery, where do I learn to speak Mexican and what is the peso worth now?
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This is bad. It looks like McCain won Florida. If McCain gets too much of an advantage, does this mean we'll have to hope for Hitlery over Osama. We can't support either one, but by default one of them will have to default McCain. Who can we support? We're going to need a third party candidate.
This whole election was run poorly. States should have not been allowed to vote at different times. Given that they were, they should not have been stripped of delegates. I'm upset now.
Official support for any democrat on the forums is not wise, and it's already pushing my limits based on the fact we went from support Guiliani to Huckabee to Romney. Might as well be voting for a democrat if the official stance is to support Romney.
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Convert some of your money to gold so you can get out of the country when they start killing Jews in the US.
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Convert some of your money to gold so you can get out of the country when they start killing Jews in the US.
I'm not running. The world wants us packed in Israel so they can attack us.
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It's going to be McCain and Hiltery, where do I learn to speak Mexican and what is the peso worth now?
Last May it was worth a dime. Looks like it still is.