JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tzvi Ben Roshel1 on February 18, 2008, 06:16:22 PM
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I would like to ask the moderators in charge of the forum. Why are you allowing downwithislam to continually spew his hatred towards Rabbis, religious communities, me and other members of this forum. He attacks me and my links unprovoked. And then spreads lashon Hara agains't me, putting words into my mouth. I would want him banned, but can someone at least give a warning?
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I like when you and downwithislam argue, it brings some liveliness to the forum. It also cracks me up as well. :::D :::D :::D Tzvi, you don't have to get so mad when someone doesn't agree with your Torah. Use this opportunity to learn how to talk with people who have different opinions than yourself and to learn from them. Also take this opportunity to learn some Ahavat Yisrael as well.
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I like when you and downwithislam argue, it brings some liveliness to the forum. It also cracks me up as well. :::D :::D :::D Tzvi, you don't have to get so mad when someone doesn't agree with your Torah. Use this opportunity to learn how to talk with people who have different opinions than yourself and to learn from them. Also take this opportunity to learn some Ahavat Yisrael as well.
Its one thing when 2 human beings disagree, but all this dog does is sprew hatred. He makes fun of Rabbis, makes fun of Religious communities and he twists what I say worse then the Israeli media. Why is he allowed to show his hatred for Rabbis? and Religious communities?
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Tzvi Ben Roshel, first of all, I do not consider myself better than you , because I am a moderator on this forum.
I really feel honoured to be made moderator, but that doe not make my opinion more valid than yours in any way.
Is "down with islam " really offending Judaism!?!?!?
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I like when you and downwithislam argue, it brings some liveliness to the forum. It also cracks me up as well. :::D :::D :::D Tzvi, you don't have to get so mad when someone doesn't agree with your Torah. Use this opportunity to learn how to talk with people who have different opinions than yourself and to learn from them. Also take this opportunity to learn some Ahavat Yisrael as well.
I often disagree with you and Judea for example, but I dont go around saying Yemah Shemo to you, or to your Rabbis (even though you dont have 1), or to Judea's Rabbi (Rav Bar Chaim). I disagree but respect, wouldn't you agree?
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Is "down with islam " really offending Judaism!?!?!?
Very much. When someone makes fun of and curses Talmedi Hachamim, this is a big offense to Judasim without a doubt. People can disagree, but not do what he is continually doing.
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A lot of what Downwithislam says is true, even if some of it is exaggerated, I've had similar experiences to what he talks about. He has a valid reason for being mad at some of the religious communities and Rabbis. He's cursing you out since you curse him out as well and tell him that he's going to hell and isn't really Jewish. And you are very fanatical in only believing in exaclty what your Rabbi says and think that anyone who has a different opinion is a heretic, and you don't listen to other people's opinions. When you go out of your Jewish neighborhood and talk to the Jews on the street, in Universities and in the world they will say much worse things than Downwithislam says and understand less about what your Rabbis say or Judaism than many Goyim, so it's your job to learn how to talk to these people, understand them, befriend them and bring them closer to the Torah. If you can't talk with Downwithislam than you won't be able to get close to these people.
Is he wrong for cursing out the Torah scholars? Yes he is and I think that he should stop doing that as Chaim has stated that the forum shouldn't curse out Orthodox Rabbis. I'll talk with the other moderators about that. You are also wrong for treating DWI like scum.
Oh, and for the 5th time I do have a Rabbi I go to, he just doesn't follow the majority my customs. Prove to me when Ethics say "make yourself a Rav" that it's not talking about simply having a Rav to go to in synagague like it says "don't separate yourself from the community". Prove to me that your opinion is correct that you have to follow everything that Rav says like you do to Rav Mizrachi. If you can't do that then be quiet and stop mocking me.
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A lot of what Downwithislam says is true, even if some of it is exaggerated, I've had similar experiences to what he talks about. He has a valid reason for being mad at some of the religious communities and Rabbis. He's cursing you out since you curse him out as well and tell him that he's going to hell and isn't really Jewish. And you are very fanatical in only believing in exaclty what your Rabbi says and think that anyone who has a different opinion is a heretic, and you don't listen to other people's opinions. When you go out of your Jewish neighborhood and talk to the Jews on the street, in Universities and in the world they will say much worse things than Downwithislam says and understand less about what your Rabbis say or Judaism than many Goyim, so it's your job to learn how to talk to these people, understand them, befriend them and bring them closer to the Torah. If you can't talk with Downwithislam than you won't be able to get close to these people.
Is he wrong for cursing out the Torah scholars? Yes he is and I think that he should stop doing that as Chaim has stated that the forum shouldn't curse out Orthodox Rabbis. I'll talk with the other moderators about that. You are also wrong for treating DWI like scum.
Oh, and for the 5th time I do have a Rabbi I go to, he just doesn't follow the majority my customs. Prove to me when Ethics say "make yourself a Rav" that it's not talking about simply having a Rav to go to in synagague like it says "don't separate yourself from the community". Prove to me that your opinion is correct that you have to follow everything that Rav says like you do to Rav Mizrachi. If you can't do that then be quiet and stop mocking me.
I promise you, I wasn't mocking you. Not even thinking about it.
For the record, even though I do have my Rav (and no its not Rav Mizrahi - because he isn't here locally), I do learn from many Rabbis and opinions. 2ce a week I learn Talmud with an Askenazi Rav and a group of people (all Askenazim). Other times online I learn on www.Torahanytime.com - Which has many Rabbanim - Both Sefaradi and Askenazi. And in my shul my Rav is Bukharian. I also learn a little from Hassidim,- mainly Likutei Moharan- Rabbi Nachman (Breslev). And also a little bit of other.
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Tzvi, can't you see the hypocrisy in all of your arguments? Your calling a fellow Jew a dog is lashon hara! You don't want anybody criticizing Shas rabbis, but you turn around and criticize Lubavitcher rabbis who actually love and care about all of their fellow Jews, regardless of whether they belong to their own denomination, or are secular or religious at all.
Furthermore, you profess to be such a Torahic/Talmudic expert--any Jew, no matter how secular, believes that deifying a human being is a grave sin, and yet you and Dominater are constantly elevating your own favorite rabbinical leaders as being saintly and sinless. It's rather amusing that you are more upset with a fellow Jew who follows different rebbes than you do than a Nazi Gentile troll who is on a mission against this entire organization because we didn't allow him to boast about missionizing.
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He makes fun of Rabbis, makes fun of Religious communities and he twists what I say worse then the Israeli media. Why is he allowed to show his hatred for Rabbis? and Religious communities?
How about you defending some actual religious communities--how about the devout hilltop communes in the most desolate parts of Judea who actually are preaching and living out Rabbinic Judaism, rather than your "heroes" in the holy land of Lakewood who speak unrepeateable blasphemies of their brothers and sisters who believe in Eretz Yisrael and continue to worship their Nazi-collaborating, light-skinned Wallace Fard some thirty years after his death...
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I never knew DownWithIslam was Jewish! :o
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Tzvi, can't you see the hypocrisy in all of your arguments? Your calling a fellow Jew a dog is lashon hara! You don't want anybody criticizing Shas rabbis, but you turn around and criticize Lubavitcher rabbis who actually love and care about all of their fellow Jews, regardless of whether they belong to their own denomination, or are secular or religious at all.
Furthermore, you profess to be such a Torahic/Talmudic expert--any Jew, no matter how secular, believes that deifying a human being is a grave sin, and yet you and Dominater are constantly elevating your own favorite rabbinical leaders as being saintly and sinless. It's rather amusing that you are more upset with a fellow Jew who follows different rebbes than you do than a Nazi Gentile troll who is on a mission against this entire organization because we didn't allow him to boast about missionizing.
c.f. you shouldn't be involved in this discussion in the first place. No offense but your not Jewish. And I did call him that wayyy after all the things that he has said. Why should I address him in a positive way after what he has continually done?
About Lubavitch, I am not going agains't their movement, nor do I hate them, when the discussion was going on, and things were mentioned that I saw were not in accordence with Judasim, then I also added my opinion and joined in the discussion. I never cured lubavitch, or said y's,, etc. I was pointing out and backing Judea that things like believing that G-d is enclothed in a person- is idolatry, but then Lubab sorted it out, and affirmed that he believes in the 13 principles of faith etc. - And anyway why am I taking the hit, when others have also disagreed with that? + im not rambling hate, I stated disagreement.
I didn't say im a Torah/Talmud expect.
Admiring someone and worshiping someone are different things. + I didn't even say I admire for example Rav Ovadio Yosef or even for you or others to, I said that the hate and cursing shouldn't go on agains't him.
_ what troll? did I miss something?
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He makes fun of Rabbis, makes fun of Religious communities and he twists what I say worse then the Israeli media. Why is he allowed to show his hatred for Rabbis? and Religious communities?
How about you defending some actual religious communities--how about the devout hilltop communes in the most desolate parts of Judea who actually are preaching and living out Rabbinic Judaism, rather than your "heroes" in the holy land of Lakewood who speak unrepeateable blasphemies of their brothers and sisters who believe in Eretz Yisrael and continue to worship their Nazi-collaborating, light-skinned Wallace Fard some thirty years after his death...
I do admire both groups of Jews. The Jews who are living in Judea and Samaria are for the most part heroes, and great people, and the Jews who live in Lakewood or Boro Park for example are also good Jews for the most part. They dont have hatred for their Jews, if you belive that without first hand hearing it from their whole community then that is because you have heard Lashon Hara, and were/ are influenced by that.
That's why Lashon Hara is such an evil thing. Once it spreads its like a wild fire. Those who spread it, how are they going to get repentence for it? Only G-d knows if its possible.
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Tzvi, can't you see the hypocrisy in all of your arguments? Your calling a fellow Jew a dog is lashon hara! You don't want anybody criticizing Shas rabbis, but you turn around and criticize Lubavitcher rabbis who actually love and care about all of their fellow Jews, regardless of whether they belong to their own denomination, or are secular or religious at all.
Furthermore, you profess to be such a Torahic/Talmudic expert--any Jew, no matter how secular, believes that deifying a human being is a grave sin, and yet you and Dominater are constantly elevating your own favorite rabbinical leaders as being saintly and sinless. It's rather amusing that you are more upset with a fellow Jew who follows different rebbes than you do than a Nazi Gentile troll who is on a mission against this entire organization because we didn't allow him to boast about missionizing.
c.f. you shouldn't be involved in this discussion in the first place. No offense but your not Jewish. And I did call him that wayyy after all the things that he has said. Why should I address him in a positive way after what he has continually done?
About Lubavitch, I am not going agains't their movement, nor do I hate them, when the discussion was going on, and things were mentioned that I saw were not in accordence with Judasim, then I also added my opinion and joined in the discussion. I never cured lubavitch, or said y's,, etc. I was pointing out and backing Judea that things like believing that G-d is enclothed in a person- is idolatry, but then Lubab sorted it out, and affirmed that he believes in the 13 principles of faith etc. - And anyway why am I taking the hit, when others have also disagreed with that? + im not rambling hate, I stated disagreement.
I didn't say im a Torah/Talmud expect.
Admiring someone and worshiping someone are different things. + I didn't even say I admire for example Rav Ovadio Yosef or even for you or others to, I said that the hate and cursing shouldn't go on agains't him.
_ what troll? did I miss something?
Here we go, Tzvi Ben roshel is starting the hate once more and making fun of "goyim." Chaimfan is one of the most righteous people in the whole world. He is more jewish than you tzvi. How dare you tell him he has no right to get in on this conversation simply because he isn't jewish. Look at the hate!! As far the Lubavitch discussion is concerned, calling the lubavitchers a "HUGG problem" is super hateful to most sane people. If I called Ovadia Yosef a HUGG problem then you would go ape. You have to start realizing that when someone disagrees with you, you don't go swearing that he will burn in hell forever and that it should come soon to him and then expect to walk away with your hands clean. Chaim Ben Pesach who is in charge has repeatedly said that he loves lubavitch, that shas is vile. He said that Rabbi Ovadia Yosef has made so many evil decisions that have cost so many jewish lives. Tzvi, you need to stop barking like a dog at anyone who breathes the wrong way on your getchkes and start being civilized.
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He makes fun of Rabbis, makes fun of Religious communities and he twists what I say worse then the Israeli media. Why is he allowed to show his hatred for Rabbis? and Religious communities?
How about you defending some actual religious communities--how about the devout hilltop communes in the most desolate parts of Judea who actually are preaching and living out Rabbinic Judaism, rather than your "heroes" in the holy land of Lakewood who speak unrepeateable blasphemies of their brothers and sisters who believe in Eretz Yisrael and continue to worship their Nazi-collaborating, light-skinned Wallace Fard some thirty years after his death...
I do admire both groups of Jews. The Jews who are living in Judea and Samaria are for the most part heroes, and great people, and the Jews who live in Lakewood or Boro Park for example are also good Jews for the most part. They dont have hatred for their Jews, if you belive that without first hand hearing it from their whole community then that is because you have heard Lashon Hara, and were/ are influenced by that.
That's why Lashon Hara is such an evil thing. Once it spreads its like a wild fire. Those who spread it, how are they going to get repentence for it? Only G-d knows if its possible.
What do you mean "for the most part." Last I checked the only evil person living there was david haivri. Anyone who is willing to live in Yesha when the govt doesn't protect them at all is a hero. For you to compare them to lakewood and boro park jews who we wont discuss here is cruel. Lakewood jews just spend their time attacking lubavitch. Tzvi, do you know that lakewood and boro park jews hate sefardim? Wake up and stop repeating what certain people tell yu like a parrot.
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I like when you and downwithislam argue, it brings some liveliness to the forum. It also cracks me up as well. :::D :::D :::D Tzvi, you don't have to get so mad when someone doesn't agree with your Torah. Use this opportunity to learn how to talk with people who have different opinions than yourself and to learn from them. Also take this opportunity to learn some Ahavat Yisrael as well.
Its one thing when 2 human beings disagree, but all this dog does is sprew hatred. He makes fun of Rabbis, makes fun of Religious communities and he twists what I say worse then the Israeli media. Why is he allowed to show his hatred for Rabbis? and Religious communities?
Tzvi you have to prove DWI wrong with his words.
I remember when I watched the link of Rabbi Mizrahi. I have, for the most part, kept my mouth shut with you since then, give or take. Not because you're right and I'm wrong. But because I needed to know where you come from and for me to learn somethign different.
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When you go out of your Jewish neighborhood and talk to the Jews on the street, in Universities and in the world they will say much worse things than Downwithislam says and understand less about what your Rabbis say or Judaism than many Goyim, so it's your job to learn how to talk to these people, understand them, befriend them and bring them closer to the Torah.
Not true. I know many Jews and I dont hear that type of talk from them. Yes once in a while someone might say that the Rabbis are strict, etc. and then we have a talk etc. I never hear people cursing Rabbis, etc. Many people that I talk to are either ignorant and they either say okay ill watch that video or they say noo its not for me, or I dont have time.
Yes I did hear someone I know say something nasty about Religious Jews, and you know what- I first told him to stop, he continued, so I got up and left the table. I have no intention in befriending those type of people. Even if they are majority or minority, or even if we have to spread Torah to them. Why should I have friends like these? Or why should I even continue to be friends with people who act like criminals according to the Torah? I can just walk away and be have other true good friends.
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You are right Dr. Dan. He never can refute anything I say so he just swears that I will burn in Hell and it will come fast. What a wonderful refutation.
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You are right Dr. Dan. He never can refute anything I say so he just swears that I will burn in Hell and it will come fast. What a wonderful refutation.
Listen, Tzvi sometimes has some good points. And so do you, DWI.
I know JTF isn't in the business of being politically correct. However, I'm personally, for politeness and respectfully disagreeing with someone.
So far, I have to say that JDLforever and Lubab are the two more observant Jews on this forum (not counting Chaim), who show Ahavat Yisrael and show this respect towards me and any Jew here isn't Orthodox.
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http://www.zshare.net/audio/7746327b508887/
Okay here is about 10 minutes. (about the first 5 is something else), but the other 5 is about respecting Talmedi Hachamim.
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Im all for showing respect towards other Jews. But you have to understand that when the Chief Sefardi Rabbi is being cursed at, how can I or any other Jew remain silent?
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You are right Dr. Dan. He never can refute anything I say so he just swears that I will burn in Hell and it will come fast. What a wonderful refutation.
Listen, Tzvi sometimes has some good points. And so do you, DWI.
I know JTF isn't in the business of being politically correct. However, I'm personally, for politeness and respectfully disagreeing with someone.
So far, I have to say that JDLforever and Lubab are the two more observant Jews on this forum (not counting Chaim), who show Ahavat Yisrael and show this respect towards me and any Jew here isn't Orthodox.
Dan I have to agree, Jdl4ever and Lubab are two very religious jews and I can only say the best about both of them. Sometimes the people who are quiet and gentle about their faith are really so much more observant than the person who barks and bites at anyone who utters a wrong syllable.
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what do you concider to not be quiet about their faith?
I post a link for Jews to learn Torah from. And you attack me repeadetly.
If I want to take the advantage and post a Torah lecture, where G-d willing some Jews will click on and learn then that is my right to do, and who are you to try to stop that and even to speak out agains't that? You very much resemble meritz and shinuy, in the way you go on your crusade agains't G-d forbid one Jew learning Torah and learing the truth. According to you G-d forbid one more Jew should click on the link and learn some Torah, because he might become religious.
If you personally dont want to listin to the lectures for example, then I dont care, dont lisiten, stay the way you are, but dont post your hateful comments, trying to turn others off to their opportunity.
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what do you concider to not be quiet about their faith?
I post a link for Jews to learn Torah from. And you attack me repeadetly.
If I want to take the advantage and post a Torah lecture, where G-d willing some Jews will click on and learn then that is my right to do, and who are you to try to stop that and even to speak out agains't that? You very much resemble meritz and shinuy, in the way you go on your crusade agains't G-d forbid one Jew learning Torah and learing the truth. According to you G-d forbid one more Jew should click on the link and learn some Torah, because he might become religious.
If you personally dont want to listin to the lectures for example, then I dont care, dont lisiten, stay the way you are, but dont post your hateful comments, trying to turn others off to their opportunity.
here's a pointer or suggestion...
You do preach a lot of righteous things on this forum and I do appreciate it...It's the way you say it which rubs me and DWI and other people the wrong way.
Observe how Lubab and JDL4ever communicate. When they talk with me, I want to go towards Torah, but when you talk to me sometimes, I want to run the other direction.
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I like when you and downwithislam argue, it brings some liveliness to the forum. It also cracks me up as well. :::D :::D :::D Tzvi, you don't have to get so mad when someone doesn't agree with your Torah. Use this opportunity to learn how to talk with people who have different opinions than yourself and to learn from them. Also take this opportunity to learn some Ahavat Yisrael as well.
I love how someone in the same sentence first dismisses blatant disrespect of rabbis and Torah as "someone doesn't agree with your Torah" and then proceeds to lecture about ahavat yisrael.... Where do you think the concept of Ahavat Yisrael comes from? Ahavat Yisrael is not a blanket excuse for venomous hatred to be accepted and glorified.
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Well look who is the one really twisting other people words. When you posted that link or whatever it was, I merely said that if you posted Kahane style torah, it would be more accepted. I then called it shas style stuff. That is all I said. Dont act like a lying jail bound shas member and say I attacked you repeatedly. I never even attacked you for that, I attacked the link, not you personally so don't try and lie. On to another note, when you go ahead and wish hell on people, call them scummm and all the other tricks you have up your sleave, it certainly attracts nobody to your message. As you can see, just about all the members that have posted here have been completely supportive of me. I would bet that you have not brought one person on the whole forum closer to judaism during your stay here. Most people just think of you as an intolerant, cruel person. Don't think by posting those links that you are bringing people closer to judaism. You have not influenced even one person on this whole forum in a positive light. I would love to see how many people on here other than Dominator96 and KahaneBT consider you to be a great jew and an inspiration for others to become religious. As Dan so correctly pointed out, when you speak, it makes me want to run as far away from religiosity as possible. You are a real turn off.
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"and yet you and Dominater are constantly elevating your own favorite rabbinical leaders as being saintly and sinless. "
Source?
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"and yet you and Dominater are constantly elevating your own favorite rabbinical leaders as being saintly and sinless. "
Source?
We aren't going to run around finding exact time and dates. All long standing memebers know what CF was referring to. Do some research.
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I nver claimed anyone was ever sinless. (except the 4 people in history - Benyamin, Davids father, Davids son and 1 other person I forgot).
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I nver claimed anyone was ever sinless. (except the 4 people in history - Benyamin, Davids father, Davids son and 1 other person I forgot).
Yes but you talk of these rabbis like they are saints. Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is no saint.
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I nver claimed anyone was ever sinless. (except the 4 people in history - Benyamin, Davids father, Davids son and 1 other person I forgot).
Yes but you talk of these rabbis like they are saints. Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is no saint.
He is one of the Gadolim of this generation, that is for sure. Without a question, he is the top Sefaradi Posek. You can go ask around Sefardi Rabbanim they will all confirm what I said.
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"and yet you and Dominater are constantly elevating your own favorite rabbinical leaders as being saintly and sinless. "
Source?
We aren't going to run around finding exact time and dates. All long standing memebers know what CF was referring to. Do some research.
Who's we? That was directed to C.F. whom I quoted.
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I nver claimed anyone was ever sinless. (except the 4 people in history - Benyamin, Davids father, Davids son and 1 other person I forgot).
Yes but you talk of these rabbis like they are saints. Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is no saint.
And you talk about them in the most cruel and intolerant way. You talk about them as if they were hitler (G-d forbid).
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"and yet you and Dominater are constantly elevating your own favorite rabbinical leaders as being saintly and sinless. "
Source?
We aren't going to run around finding exact time and dates. All long standing memebers know what CF was referring to. Do some research.
Who's we? That was directed to C.F. whom I quoted.
I know that but I have the right to post and I am using that right to defend him.
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I nver claimed anyone was ever sinless. (except the 4 people in history - Benyamin, Davids father, Davids son and 1 other person I forgot).
Yes but you talk of these rabbis like they are saints. Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is no saint.
And you talk about them in the most cruel and intolerant way. You talk about them as if they were hitler (G-d forbid).
Again you are lying, how do you know how I would speak about Hitler? It would be far worse than what I say about Ovadia Yosef. Ovadia Yosef is willing to sacrifice Jewish children just so he could stay in the govt and collect money so that must be exposed and admonished with a passion.
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Thats a heavy accusation, how do you know that he wants to sacrifice Jewish children? Anyway he is a Rabbi, not a politician. He spends most of his time in Talmud Torah and not devising plans to destroy the Jewish nation (G-d forbid), the way some try to portray him.
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Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on Today at 06:13:12 PM
Quote from: DownwithIslam on Today at 05:52:39 PM
Lubab, why even waste your time answering this little cowards viscous attacks against Lubavitch. He is just agitated because the Lubavitcher Rebbeim were honest, wonderful people who were torutured in Europe because the refused to maser on other jews. Their whole lives were lived in honor and when unlimited amounts of money were placed in the hands of the last lubavitcher rebbe, he never took one penny of it. He simply handed it out to everyone who was willing to come. Lets contrast this with tzvi Ben roshells hero, Mr Ovadia yosef. All the money this man has is stolen. No party in Israel has had more people sent to prison for theft and corruption than mr yosefs shas party. The whore themselves out to traitor regimes while risking their fellow jews lives just so they can collect some more gelt. Rabbi Schneerson said that all jews were special while mr yosef thinks that if an Israeli soldier ever did an aveyra, then he deserves to die. Of course all the jews who died in the holocaust deserved it too accordint to Yosef. Lubab, realize you are talking t someone who has a one track, hateful mind. He is like Rabbi Kotler who publicly attacked Rabbi Schneerson time and time again in a way that he wouldn't even talk to a cleaning woman. I am so sick of these jews who attack everyone who is not like them. Lubab, don't even answer this ideological terrorist anymore becuse none of what he is writing is his own thoughts anyways. He is going to his hateful "torah" sites which are really anti lubavitch cesspools and merely copy and pasting. Mr yosef is not worthy of scrubbing Rabbi Schneersons floors. Their is a reason why lubavitch has people who donate huge amounts of money to them when mr yosef has to whore himself out to smolmert regimes to get some money. Anyone who goes around this forum saying that chabad chasidim who believe in the moshiach train of though need to be excommunicated is just a monster rasha who needs to be removed from our midst and certainly from this forum.
You should be banned from this forum, and also banned as a Jew. Lubab can speak for himself, stop trying to speak for me.
Look at this disgusting comment tzvi made about me on another thread. It would be offensive to me except for the fact that he only has a pint sized peanut gallery that agrees with him. I thankfully have many supporters on this forum of whom I am thankful for.
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Thats a heavy accusation, how do you know that he wants to sacrifice Jewish children? Anyway he is a Rabbi, not a politician. He spends most of his time in Talmud Torah and not devising plans to destroy the Jewish nation (G-d forbid), the way some try to portray him.
I am not going to argue with you over technicalities. The fact that his party is in a govt which is allowing jewish children to be blown up in sderot means that he is willing to sacrifice jewish children. I have to go study now so you have a free hand for the next few hours to attack me.
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::) , Thats after all the things you have said. Here's another quote you can copy/paste and remember forever.
Tzvi Ben Roshel" - downwithislam- "Have a good time roasting in the depths of Gehinnom , if you are soo lucky to even make it to their".
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OK everyone, we can now see who really is spewing all the venom and who is doing all the cursing. I rest my case.
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OK everyone, we can now see who really is spewing all the venom and who is doing all the cursing. I rest my case.
I wanted to help your case, what can I say im kind like that.
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Tzvi, once again you attack the messenger instead of the message. Since you can't refute what I said of you, you fall back on calling me goy. You cannot cope with the fact that the vast majority of religious Jews on this forum (Yacov, Judeanoncapta, JDL4ever, lubab, etc.) do not agree with you in any way, shape or form whatsoever. You can't worm your way out of this. You attacked DownwithIslam and the Lubavitcher movement both. I understand that you have a longstanding beef with DwI (that you largely created), but how did the Lubavitch rebbe offend you?
More importantly, how are your Lakewood/Borough Park Satmar friends serving as a light on a hill unto this world? What are they doing for this world, much less their fellow Jews, in the comfort of their NYC mansions? Prove to me that they have done one thing G-d has called them to.
Please do me just one favor--ask your rabbi what he thinks of you calling fellow Jews "dogs".
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Tzvi, once again you attack the messenger instead of the message. Since you can't refute what I said of you, you fall back on calling me goy. You cannot cope with the fact that the vast majority of religious Jews on this forum (Yacov, Judeanoncapta, JDL4ever, lubab, etc.) do not agree with you in any way, shape or form whatsoever. You can't worm your way out of this. You attacked DownwithIslam and the Lubavitcher movement both. I understand that you have a longstanding beef with DwI (that you largely created), but how did the Lubavitch rebbe offend you?
More importantly, how are your Lakewood/Borough Park Satmar friends serving as a light on a hill unto this world? What are they doing for this world, much less their fellow Jews, in the comfort of their NYC mansions? Prove to me that they have done one thing G-d has called them to.
Please do me just one favor--ask your rabbi what he thinks of you calling fellow Jews "dogs".
calling you a goy was not an attack. I was telling you that its not for you to get involved and understand thelogical beliefs within Judaism. I cant argue and bring proofs to you about religious writings etc. because your religion is different.
I didn't attack the Lubavitcher Rebbe, that was just a whole different discussion, of which dwi then brought it up here, in order to try to put me down and say that im extremly agains't Lubavitch.
About the religius communities you are asking about- They are learning Torah, doing Mitzvot and doing Hessed. If you dont understand that accomplishment, fine, but in the eyes of G-d its a hugg accomplishment for Jews to do such things. If you see 2 Jews, 1 learning Torah and another being a doctor for example and treating people. The one who is learning Torah is greater. The value of Torah is very great, you and most Jews in this generation dont understand.
And not all Jews have mansions as you say. Their are many rich Jews, and their are also poor Jews.
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calling you a goy was not an attack. I was telling you that its not for you to get involved and understand thelogical beliefs within Judaism. I cant argue and bring proofs to you about religious writings etc. because your religion is different.
I didn't attack the Lubavitcher Rebbe, that was just a whole different discussion, of which dwi then brought it up here, in order to try to put me down and say that im extremly agains't Lubavitch.
About the religius communities you are asking about- They are learning Torah, doing Mitzvot and doing Hessed. If you dont understand that accomplishment, fine, but in the eyes of G-d its a hugg accomplishment for Jews to do such things. If you see 2 Jews, 1 learning Torah and another being a doctor for example and treating people. The one who is learning Torah is greater. The value of Torah is very great, you and most Jews in this generation dont understand.
And not all Jews have mansions as you say. Their are many rich Jews, and their are also poor Jews.
Fine, just go on distorting my words... that is a far more effective indictment of your position than anything I could say in response. ::)
1: So being a Gentile means I am retarded? I am incapable of referencing a holy book because I am not of your religion?
2: I see the Lubavitch doing a heck of a lot more than your favorite Jews--last time I checked, uttering vile curses at your brothers and sisters in the faith because they believe G-d gave them a homeland isn't a mitzvah.
3: The whole message of the Torah is to be obedient to G-d by expelling the proto-Muslim Nazis from their homeland. Your Satmar heroes don't even believe Jews have a home on this earth.
4: I stand by my original comments. Anybody who is being honest with themselves will attest that the Satmar cultists on average have a higher income than regular Americans, or non-Satmar Jews for that matter.
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I nver claimed anyone was ever sinless. (except the 4 people in history - Benyamin, Davids father, Davids son and 1 other person I forgot).
Yes but you talk of these rabbis like they are saints. Rabbi Ovadia Yosef is no saint.
He is one of the Gadolim of this generation, that is for sure. Without a question, he is the top Sefaradi Posek. You can go ask around Sefaradi Rabbanim they will all confirm what I said.
His decisions has killed many Jewish lives...He can be as "Gadol" as he wants to be or by the majority of sephardim.
It seems that the majority of Israelis are for territorial concessions to the Arabs..that doesn't make them right.
Ovadia Yosef may have a lot of knowledge in torah and talmud and maybe considered a Gadol...however, he is a very very dangerous person when it comes down to politics and giving land for peace.
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It seems that the majority of Israelis are for territorial concessions to the Arabs..that doesn't make them right.
Ovadia Yosef may have a lot of knowledge in torah and talmud and maybe considered a Gadol...however, he is a very very dangerous person when it comes down to politics and giving land for peace.
You are absolutely right. Ovadia Yosef is worse than average peaceniks because he is a religious man who has been trained in all the ways of the Torah/Talmud. He knows better.
Yes, the majority of Israelis are self-hating leftists, but at least one can argue they are stupid and ignorant. You can't say the same of ROY.
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Tzvi, once again you attack the messenger instead of the message. Since you can't refute what I said of you, you fall back on calling me goy. You cannot cope with the fact that the vast majority of religious Jews on this forum (Yacov, Judeanoncapta, JDL4ever, lubab, etc.) do not agree with you in any way, shape or form whatsoever. You can't worm your way out of this. You attacked DownwithIslam and the Lubavitcher movement both. I understand that you have a longstanding beef with DwI (that you largely created), but how did the Lubavitch rebbe offend you?
More importantly, how are your Lakewood/Borough Park Satmar friends serving as a light on a hill unto this world? What are they doing for this world, much less their fellow Jews, in the comfort of their NYC mansions? Prove to me that they have done one thing G-d has called them to.
Please do me just one favor--ask your rabbi what he thinks of you calling fellow Jews "dogs".
calling you a goy was not an attack. I was telling you that its not for you to get involved and understand thelogical beliefs within Judaism. I cant argue and bring proofs to you about religious writings etc. because your religion is different.
I didn't attack the Lubavitcher Rebbe, that was just a whole different discussion, of which dwi then brought it up here, in order to try to put me down and say that im extremly agains't Lubavitch.
About the religius communities you are asking about- They are learning Torah, doing Mitzvot and doing Hessed. If you dont understand that accomplishment, fine, but in the eyes of G-d its a hugg accomplishment for Jews to do such things. If you see 2 Jews, 1 learning Torah and another being a doctor for example and treating people. The one who is learning Torah is greater. The value of Torah is very great, you and most Jews in this generation dont understand.
And not all Jews have mansions as you say. Their are many rich Jews, and their are also poor Jews.
If one is studying torah and talmud all day and is doing nothing else for the world is certainly not greater than a doctor who might be saving lives.
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It seems that the majority of Israelis are for territorial concessions to the Arabs..that doesn't make them right.
Ovadia Yosef may have a lot of knowledge in torah and talmud and maybe considered a Gadol...however, he is a very very dangerous person when it comes down to politics and giving land for peace.
You are absolutely right. Ovadia Yosef is worse than average peaceniks because he is a religious man who has been trained in all the ways of the Torah/Talmud. He knows better.
Yes, the majority of Israelis are self-hating leftists, but at least one can argue they are stupid and ignorant. You can't say the same of ROY.
The bottom line with ovadia yosef is that while he is learned in Torah and talmud, his decisions in the govt and peace process has been absolutely terrible and misleading! Much like the way many reform and conservative rabbis mislead less observant Jews..except one misleads and causes a dead physical life while the other leads to a spiritual death to a certain degree in some cases.
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Chaimfan and Dr. Dan are both so right. Ovadia Yosef is such a dangerous person, he sits in a govt which not only puts jews in danger with their policies but righteous gentiles the world over as well. Just cause someone knows torah doesn't mean anything. Their have been viscous jew haters in history that have learned torah just to cause trouble. Learning torah means nothing unless you internalize it. Most Lakewood, Boro Park and Williamsburg jews just live in fancy homes and bash Israel simply because they know that going there would mean they have to fight for something. They would rather just live in their comfortable homes here than have to go to Israel and fight so they make themselves feel better by attacking Israel. How can you compare these jews to yesha jews who risk their lives for their homeland. Tzvi, people here aren't buying this garbage so keep it out of the forum. And believe me, saving one life is like saving the world according to judaism so if you are going to say that learning all day is better than saving lives, I pity you.
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calling you a goy was not an attack. I was telling you that its not for you to get involved and understand thelogical beliefs within Judaism. I cant argue and bring proofs to you about religious writings etc. because your religion is different.
I didn't attack the Lubavitcher Rebbe, that was just a whole different discussion, of which dwi then brought it up here, in order to try to put me down and say that im extremly agains't Lubavitch.
About the religius communities you are asking about- They are learning Torah, doing Mitzvot and doing Hessed. If you dont understand that accomplishment, fine, but in the eyes of G-d its a hugg accomplishment for Jews to do such things. If you see 2 Jews, 1 learning Torah and another being a doctor for example and treating people. The one who is learning Torah is greater. The value of Torah is very great, you and most Jews in this generation dont understand.
And not all Jews have mansions as you say. Their are many rich Jews, and their are also poor Jews.
Fine, just go on distorting my words... that is a far more effective indictment of your position than anything I could say in response. ::)
1: So being a Gentile means I am retarded? I am incapable of referencing a holy book because I am not of your religion?
2: I see the Lubavitch doing a heck of a lot more than your favorite Jews--last time I checked, uttering vile curses at your brothers and sisters in the faith because they believe G-d gave them a homeland isn't a mitzvah.
3: The whole message of the Torah is to be obedient to G-d by expelling the proto-Muslim Nazis from their homeland. Your Satmar heroes don't even believe Jews have a home on this earth.
4: I stand by my original comments. Anybody who is being honest with themselves will attest that the Satmar cultists on average have a higher income than regular Americans, or non-Satmar Jews for that matter.
??? . What are you saying? Whatever. I didn't call gentiles retarted, nor did I call you retarted. If I bring a page of Talmud to you will you accept it or even understand it? Their are some things that are best discussed only by Jews thats all I am saying. For example if you were discussing G-d as having 3 parts, according to me that is blasphemy, but it is part of some religions, so what would be best is for us not not discuss religious differences between us.
Places like Lakewood not only do Satmers live in. Actually I dont think that Satmer's live in Lakewood for example. The Lithuanians live in Lakewood- and they have a great Yeshiva their - the Lakewood Yeshiva.
- Who cares about who has a higher income? I dont belive that hassidim have a great income (I can be wrong, I dont know, I dont go looking at other Jews or other people's wealth).
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Chaimfan and Dr. Dan are both so right. Ovadia Yosef is such a dangerous person, he sits in a govt which not only puts jews in danger with their policies but righteous gentiles the world over as well. Just cause someone knows torah doesn't mean anything. Their have been viscous jew haters in history that have learned torah just to cause trouble. Learning torah means nothing unless you internalize it. Most Lakewood, Boro Park and Williamsburg jews just live in fancy homes and bash Israel simply because they know that going there would mean they have to fight for something. They would rather just live in their comfortable homes here than have to go to Israel and fight so they make themselves feel better by attacking Israel. How can you compare these jews to yesha jews who risk their lives for their homeland. Tzvi, people here aren't buying this garbage so keep it out of the forum. And believe me, saving one life is like saving the world according to judaism so if you are going to say that learning all day is better than saving lives, I pity you.
You first make Aliya, and then talk about other people.
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Chaimfan and Dr. Dan are both so right. Ovadia Yosef is such a dangerous person, he sits in a govt which not only puts jews in danger with their policies but righteous gentiles the world over as well. Just cause someone knows torah doesn't mean anything. Their have been viscous jew haters in history that have learned torah just to cause trouble. Learning torah means nothing unless you internalize it. Most Lakewood, Boro Park and Williamsburg jews just live in fancy homes and bash Israel simply because they know that going there would mean they have to fight for something. They would rather just live in their comfortable homes here than have to go to Israel and fight so they make themselves feel better by attacking Israel. How can you compare these jews to yesha jews who risk their lives for their homeland. Tzvi, people here aren't buying this garbage so keep it out of the forum. And believe me, saving one life is like saving the world according to judaism so if you are going to say that learning all day is better than saving lives, I pity you.
You first make Aliya, and then talk about other people.
Lakewood is an anti Zionist yeshiva. They couldn't care how many jews are killed as long as bombs don't go off in their own beis medrash. The fact that the original Rabbi Kotler publicly belittled other torah scholars who were even greater than him is certainly a blemish on them. They are a bunch of cold jews who care only about their own institutions. They are similar to shas in this regard so you probably would like them but they hate you if you are sefardic.(I think tzvi is sefardic but I may be wrong about that) Regardless of whether or not you support lubavitch, the fact that Kotler got up and made fun of the lubavitcher rebbe when he came to america is vile. This is the same kind interjewish relations that his followers employ today.
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Chaimfan and Dr. Dan are both so right. Ovadia Yosef is such a dangerous person, he sits in a govt which not only puts jews in danger with their policies but righteous gentiles the world over as well. Just cause someone knows torah doesn't mean anything. Their have been viscous jew haters in history that have learned torah just to cause trouble. Learning torah means nothing unless you internalize it. Most Lakewood, Boro Park and Williamsburg jews just live in fancy homes and bash Israel simply because they know that going there would mean they have to fight for something. They would rather just live in their comfortable homes here than have to go to Israel and fight so they make themselves feel better by attacking Israel. How can you compare these jews to yesha jews who risk their lives for their homeland. Tzvi, people here aren't buying this garbage so keep it out of the forum. And believe me, saving one life is like saving the world according to judaism so if you are going to say that learning all day is better than saving lives, I pity you.
You first make Aliya, and then talk about other people.
Lakewood is an anti Zionist yeshiva. They couldn't care how many jews are killed as long as bombs don't go off in their own beis medrash. The fact that the original Rabbi Kotler publicly belittled other torah scholars who were even greater than him is certainly a blemish on them. They are a bunch of cold jews who care only about their own institutions. They are similar to shas in this regard so you probably would like them but they hate you if you are sefardic.(I think tzvi is sefardic but I may be wrong about that) Regardless of whether or not you support lubavitch, the fact that Kotler got up and made fun of the lubavitcher rebbe when he came to america is vile. This is the same kind interjewish relations that his followers employ today.
I dont know if they are zionist or anti-zionist, whatever. Even if they are anti-zionist, soo- what? that doesn't mean you are allowed to smear them with all the usual hate.
Yes I am Sefardi, and my cousin lives in Lakewood and doesn't have a problem with the Jews their. They are very nice people to her, her family and to other people and other Jews.
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tell me which Jews do you like?
You will say the Yesh Jews and Chabad, okay, but then whats your criteria for who is a good Jew? Only one who supports the zionist ideals? And according to you all else are what?
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Hacham Ovadia Yosef Shlita
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm
http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/witofyosef.htm -notice this line-
"Rabbi Yosef, the former Sefaradi Chief Rabbi, who recedntly said that Arabs were snakes and should be annihilated, told his followers that he had a dream on Friday.
Rabbi Ben-Zion Mutzafi, one of his followers, said that Rabbi Yosef had told him that in his dream "at the Western Wall plaza and in all of Jerusalem there were only Jews ... There were no non-Jewish foreigners there. They had already been expelled [before the coming of the Messiah]".
Hacham Ovadia has stated that whenever Jerusalem is on the table in negotiations, Shas should pull out immediatly. He isnt all caught up in the politics. People tell him what they want him to hear. Hacham Ovadia is learning torah, and writing about 18 hours a day know, and isnt looking at the politics. It is very possible people are lieing to him.
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2008/02/is-rabbi-ovadia-yosef-being-told-truth.html
Rabbi Mazuz who is a huge talmid hacham, and someone whom me and people I am friendly with have spoken to, says that Hacham Ovadia is being lied to.
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Chaimfan and Dr. Dan are both so right. Ovadia Yosef is such a dangerous person, he sits in a govt which not only puts jews in danger with their policies but righteous gentiles the world over as well. Just cause someone knows torah doesn't mean anything. Their have been viscous jew haters in history that have learned torah just to cause trouble. Learning torah means nothing unless you internalize it. Most Lakewood, Boro Park and Williamsburg jews just live in fancy homes and bash Israel simply because they know that going there would mean they have to fight for something. They would rather just live in their comfortable homes here than have to go to Israel and fight so they make themselves feel better by attacking Israel. How can you compare these jews to yesha jews who risk their lives for their homeland. Tzvi, people here aren't buying this garbage so keep it out of the forum. And believe me, saving one life is like saving the world according to judaism so if you are going to say that learning all day is better than saving lives, I pity you.
You first make Aliya, and then talk about other people.
Lakewood is an anti Zionist yeshiva. They couldn't care how many jews are killed as long as bombs don't go off in their own beis medrash. The fact that the original Rabbi Kotler publicly belittled other torah scholars who were even greater than him is certainly a blemish on them. They are a bunch of cold jews who care only about their own institutions. They are similar to shas in this regard so you probably would like them but they hate you if you are sefardic.(I think tzvi is sefardic but I may be wrong about that) Regardless of whether or not you support lubavitch, the fact that Kotler got up and made fun of the lubavitcher rebbe when he came to america is vile. This is the same kind interjewish relations that his followers employ today.
I dont know if they are zionist or anti-zionist, whatever. Even if they are anti-zionist, soo- what? that doesn't mean you are allowed to smear them with all the usual hate.
Yes I am Sefaradi, and my cousin lives in Lakewood and doesn't have a problem with the Jews their. They are very nice people to her, her family and to other people and other Jews.
Tzvi, talking to you is like teaching a shvartza math. You are not showing any form of wisdom by labeling legit criticisms of lakewood jews as smears. The only smearing taking place is your smearing of chabad. I laid out certain dark truths about the history of Beth Medrash Govoha and its founders. It was founded on hate, intolerance of their fellow jews and an overall heinous attitude towards people who differed from them even slightly. It is not a secret that the Lakewood institution despises most other jews. Tzvi you are [censored] people off cause you can't refute the points and you just label everything as a smear.
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Tzvi, once again you attack the messenger instead of the message. Since you can't refute what I said of you, you fall back on calling me goy. You cannot cope with the fact that the vast majority of religious Jews on this forum (Yacov, Judeanoncapta, JDL4ever, lubab, etc.) do not agree with you in any way, shape or form whatsoever. You can't worm your way out of this. You attacked DownwithIslam and the Lubavitcher movement both. I understand that you have a longstanding beef with DwI (that you largely created), but how did the Lubavitch rebbe offend you?
More importantly, how are your Lakewood/Borough Park Satmar friends serving as a light on a hill unto this world? What are they doing for this world, much less their fellow Jews, in the comfort of their NYC mansions? Prove to me that they have done one thing G-d has called them to.
Please do me just one favor--ask your rabbi what he thinks of you calling fellow Jews "dogs".
calling you a goy was not an attack. I was telling you that its not for you to get involved and understand thelogical beliefs within Judaism. I cant argue and bring proofs to you about religious writings etc. because your religion is different.
I didn't attack the Lubavitcher Rebbe, that was just a whole different discussion, of which dwi then brought it up here, in order to try to put me down and say that im extremly agains't Lubavitch.
About the religius communities you are asking about- They are learning Torah, doing Mitzvot and doing Hessed. If you dont understand that accomplishment, fine, but in the eyes of G-d its a hugg accomplishment for Jews to do such things. If you see 2 Jews, 1 learning Torah and another being a doctor for example and treating people. The one who is learning Torah is greater. The value of Torah is very great, you and most Jews in this generation dont understand.
And not all Jews have mansions as you say. Their are many rich Jews, and their are also poor Jews.
If one is studying torah and talmud all day and is doing nothing else for the world is certainly not greater than a doctor who might be saving lives.
Yes he is. He has written about 30 Halacha books, and a commentary on some of the gemara. He is learning about 18 hours a day, and doing more for Jews then anyone else in the world.
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Tzvi, once again you attack the messenger instead of the message. Since you can't refute what I said of you, you fall back on calling me goy. You cannot cope with the fact that the vast majority of religious Jews on this forum (Yacov, Judeanoncapta, JDL4ever, lubab, etc.) do not agree with you in any way, shape or form whatsoever. You can't worm your way out of this. You attacked DownwithIslam and the Lubavitcher movement both. I understand that you have a longstanding beef with DwI (that you largely created), but how did the Lubavitch rebbe offend you?
More importantly, how are your Lakewood/Borough Park Satmar friends serving as a light on a hill unto this world? What are they doing for this world, much less their fellow Jews, in the comfort of their NYC mansions? Prove to me that they have done one thing G-d has called them to.
Please do me just one favor--ask your rabbi what he thinks of you calling fellow Jews "dogs".
There is no bigger sign of ignorance than your equating all of Lakewood with Satmar.
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DWI what is your opinion about Rabbi Moshe Feinstein?
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Hacham Ovadia Yosef Shlita
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm
http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/witofyosef.htm -notice this line-
"Rabbi Yosef, the former Sefaradi Chief Rabbi, who recedntly said that Arabs were snakes and should be annihilated, told his followers that he had a dream on Friday.
Rabbi Ben-Zion Mutzafi, one of his followers, said that Rabbi Yosef had told him that in his dream "at the Western Wall plaza and in all of Jerusalem there were only Jews ... There were no non-Jewish foreigners there. They had already been expelled [before the coming of the Messiah]".
Hacham Ovadia has stated that whenever Jerusalem is on the table in negotiations, Shas should pull out immediatly. He isnt all caught up in the politics. People tell him what they want him to hear. Hacham Ovadia is learning torah, and writing about 18 hours a day know, and isnt looking at the politics. It is very possible people are lieing to him.
http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2008/02/is-rabbi-ovadia-yosef-being-told-truth.html
Rabbi Mazuz who is a huge talmid hacham, and someone whom me and people I am friendly with have spoken to, says that Hacham Ovadia is being lied to.
Are you kidding, if we in NYC found out about the happening is Israel, are you telling me that Mr. Yosef can't? I don't care what Rabbi Yosef dreams about, I care what he does when he is awake. If he is dreaming about livng without arabs, then why is he in a govt which carried out the 2005 expulsion. How could he be in a govt headed by smolmert who was instrumental in ethnic cleansing of jews. Dominator96, your link has no factual grounds.
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You both have not refuted one argument I have made yet you have thrown around lots of insults and smeared many people.
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Ok... enough.
DownWithIslam, I have known you a long time and we have traded many excellent and intelligent posts. Please... please... do not curse any Orthodox Jews. This is a VERY serious thing. It is a subject that Chaim has talked about several times on his shows. It is obvious that we disagree with many Rabbis' opinions (sometimes deeply) but [1] we are warned never to insult a Torah scholar under punishment from Hashem (which is a very scary thing) and [2] this will hurt JTF very seriously since you are one of our long term posters that so many look up to and respect.
Tzvi, you are a righteous man with more Torah knowledge than I could wish to have. I respect you deeply and our theology is very similar. I know you are trying to stand up for what is right and that your intention is for the respect of the Creator, the Jewish people, and the Torah. There could be no greater thing. Let's try not to make public posts in the general section against long term members. This also hurts JTF.
I really hope that you two can make amends. I would like to see both of you make peace with one another and work together so that JTF can make a difference and stop the evil that hurts this world. You are both so intelligent. This is a noble cause and without the support from posters like yourselves, how could it be possible? I need you both... but the fighting, cursing, and hateful language has to stop.
Please, understand that I am posting this out of respect for you.
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Actually we know things that are happening in Israel before the Israeli citizens do. And you know thingfs because of the internet, TV, newspapers, etc. Hacham Ovadia doesnt own a TV, computer, read newspapers. Any second he has he is learning torah, or writing. I know it is hard for you to believe but its true all he does is learn torah. People come and give him the news about politics and that is what he believes. He is being mislead. He has stated numerous times that if Jerusalem is on the table Shas should quit.
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Ok... enough.
DownWithIslam, I have known you a long time and we have traded many excellent and intelligent posts. Please... please... do not curse any Orthodox Jews. This is a VERY serious thing. It is a subject that Chaim has talked about several times on his shows. It is obvious that we disagree with many Rabbis' opinions (sometimes deeply) but [1] we are warned never to insult a Torah scholar under punishment from Hashem (which is a very scary thing) and [2] this will hurt JTF very seriously since you are one of our long term posters than many look up to and respect.
Tzvi, you are a righteous man with more Torah knowledge than I could wish to have. I respect you deeply and our theology is very similar. I know you are trying to stand up for what is right and that your intention is for the respect of the Creator, the Jewish people, and the Torah. There could be no greater thing. Let's try not to make public posts in the general section against long term members. This also hurts JTF.
I really hope that you two can make amends. I would like to see both of you make peace with one another and work together so that JTF can make a difference and stop the evil that hurts this world. You are both so intelligent. This is a noble cause and without the support from posters like yourselves, how could it be possible? I need you both... but the fighting, cursing, and hateful language has to stop.
Please, understand that I am posting this out of respect for you.
Shlomo, I really think that if you look through the history of this and other threads, you will always see that Tzvi starts the personal attacks. Their is a reason that JDL4EVER and all the regular posters came to my defense. I do not think that we are equally guilty because all the fight are always started by others.
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Shlomo, discuss the issue with Jdl4ever because I understand that you might not have the time to look through all the threads to sort things out. jdl4ever is familiar with the situation at hand and can thoroughly fill you in. Thanks for your concern and I appreciate all you do.
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Also Shlomo, I see that you were concerned with my cursing of orthodox jews. I would check into that because last I knew, Tzvi ben roshell wished that my hell would come fast. Not that it means anything coming from him but I would certainly look into disciplining that as it was a direct hit on another member of the forum. Thanks.
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Ok... enough.
DownWithIslam, I have known you a long time and we have traded many excellent and intelligent posts. Please... please... do not curse any Orthodox Jews. This is a VERY serious thing. It is a subject that Chaim has talked about several times on his shows. It is obvious that we disagree with many Rabbis' opinions (sometimes deeply) but [1] we are warned never to insult a Torah scholar under punishment from Hashem (which is a very scary thing) and [2] this will hurt JTF very seriously since you are one of our long term posters that so many look up to and respect.
Tzvi, you are a righteous man with more Torah knowledge than I could wish to have. I respect you deeply and our theology is very similar. I know you are trying to stand up for what is right and that your intention is for the respect of the Creator, the Jewish people, and the Torah. There could be no greater thing. Let's try not to make public posts in the general section against long term members. This also hurts JTF.
I really hope that you two can make amends. I would like to see both of you make peace with one another and work together so that JTF can make a difference and stop the evil that hurts this world. You are both so intelligent. This is a noble cause and without the support from posters like yourselves, how could it be possible? I need you both... but the fighting, cursing, and hateful language has to stop.
Please, understand that I am posting this out of respect for you.
Thanks Shlomo, you are a wonderful and insightful person. I agree with what you say allways. I will listin to and follow what you are saying, but please make sure that their isn't a breach from the other side.
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Also, dominator96 claimed Rabbi Yosef doesn't know what is going on with giving away jerusalem because the rabbi doesn't have a pc or a newspaper. That is about to be refuted by me. In the jerusalem post article I am linking everyone to, Gideon Saar who is a big guy in likud just met with RABBI Yosef to bring him up to date and tell him to leave the coalition. This happened today and the rabbi isn't leaving. You cannot say he doesn't know. I believe it is wrong to prevent people from criticizing this man. His actions are murdering jews which is something so evil. Here is the aritcle.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1203343699265&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
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Also Shlomo, the more I read your response above the more I am angered. It's either you haven't been following Tzvi's actions or you are just simply making a mistake. Their is a reason people have come out supporting me. He has slandered me and chabad. Being kind to the cruel will make you be cruel to the kind.
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DownwithIslam, don't be angry. There is nothing to be angry about. You know how fond I am of you. It was never my intention to hurt you... either of you.
No one... and I mean no one... should slander Chabad. JTF has support from Chabad and they are loved by JTF. This is very important.
You are correct. I haven't had the ability to sort through everything because I've been working on a project. I just want you two to stop fighting. It hurts me to see this. That's all. If I have made a mistake in any way, then it is my own fault.
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1 2 3 its over. As long as dwi- adheres to what Shlomo has written, I have no problem with him.
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DownwithIslam, don't be angry. There is nothing to be angry about. You know how fond I am of you. It was never my intention to hurt you... either of you.
No one... and I mean no one... should slander Chabad. JTF has support from Chabad and they are loved by JTF. This is very important.
You are correct. I haven't had the ability to sort through everything because I've been working on a project. I just want you two to stop fighting. It hurts me to see this. That's all. If I have made a mistake in any way, then it is my own fault.
Shlomo, I understand. I knew that you didn't have time and that you wanted to stop the fighting. I totally understand it and you are right about that. I am not mad at you and thanks again for everything. When you get a chance just check out some of the past threads and discuss it with jdl4ever and you will hear the truth. I just wanted to clarify because it would be a grave injustice to blame the wrong person or blame people equally when their was not an equal crime.
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I agree with Shlomo.
Yacov, what do you agree with shlomo about? I agree that Shlomo is a wonderful, kind person but I dont agree that I did anything wrong. I was wondering what your take is on this whole issue.
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I agree that fighting looks bad for us all but we just have to get to the root of the problem by dealing with the instigators and smearers. Blaming people equally when the crime is not equal certainly isn't right. I hope we never have to fight anymore but it is very hard to hold yourself back when we are talking about people who endanger jewish lives or people who support those who endanger jewish lives.
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It is always difficult not to fight when we care so deeply. Sometimes, we just can't help it. We are human.
I was very glad to see you too make amends somewhat. I know you are both probably still upset with each other but I wish others had the maturity that you two display.
You both really made my night and I couldn't be more proud to be a member of this forum.
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I agree with Shlomo.
Yacov, what do you agree with shlomo about? I agree that Shlomo is a wonderful, kind person but I dont agree that I did anything wrong. I was wondering what your take is on this whole issue.
It is one thing to disagree with the Rabbi's political decisions (don't we all?)... It is another thing entirely to curse him and drag him through the mud. Hopefully you can see that point because that is far more important than any of the bickering or squabbling between you two and any argument over 'who is right.'
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You make a good point but I really don't think that anything else needs to be said here.
Those two deserve a lot of respect.