JTF.ORG Forum
Israel => Save Israel => Topic started by: androbot2084 on March 20, 2008, 02:08:48 AM
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A lot of people do not recognize a concept such as a "Cycle of Violence " because it tends to blame the victims of violence and terrorism as having brought it upon themselves for defending themselves.
According to the theory of the cycle of violence Israel responds to a suicide bus bombing by deploying helicopter gunships in order to assasinate the terrorist leaders responsible for the attacks. A rocket is fired from the helicopter and this rocket takes out the terrorist motorcade. Unfortunately although no civillians were intentionally targeted collateral damage does occur and the Palestinian leaders soon denounce the IDF as baby killers and start recruiting more suicide bombers to carry out the next wave of terrorist attacks. After the next terrorist attack from the Palestinians the IDF uses bulldozers to level the homes of the families of the suicide bombers. Since thier homes were leveled the Palestinians seek to get revenge for what they percieve as a grave injustice. So according to the theory of the cycle of violence, violence will never end because both parties seek vengence and they want to get even. It is much like a compulsive gambler who continues to gamble so that he can get back the money he lost but he never wins because the odds are against him.
According to the theory of the cycle of violence, for violence to end the cycle merely has to be broken. So the next time there is a big terrorist attack Israel merely cuts its losses and does not respond. So now the cycle of violence is broken.
Of course Israel will say that it has a right to defend herself just like the United States defended itself after 911. However it has cost America the lives of 4000 soldiers to avenge the 3000 lives lost on 911.
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So what's your point?
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androbot2084, I strongly disagree with you.
If Israel doesn't respond to a terrorist attack against her citizens, an even larger scale terrorist attack will occur. The only viable solution I can think of is Israel must respond to terrorism in such a way that it will deter terrorist attacks in the future. The measured response approach that both the U.S. and Israel have taken far too often has lead to disaster.
Basically, I don't believe that Israel goes far enough in combating terrorism. Israel shouldn't even be concerned what International opinion is going to be. Israel's survival is at stake. Israel's passive approach in the 2006 war against Hezbollah lead to disaster for Israel. The current Israeli government must be replaced ASAP.
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Again it is like the same failed logic that America faced when we were fighting the Vietnam war. The politicians declared that we must stand up to a Commununist takeover of Vietnam otherwise there will be a domino effect and we will be fighting the Communists right here in America. Although more ordinance was dropped on Vietnam than in all of World War 2 the military establishment said that the real reason that we were losing the Vietnam war is that we did not fight an all out war in which victory would be possible. I suppose their idea of a real war would have been a nuclear war that would have caused the total extinction of life.
Rather America quit the Vietnam war and 15 years later Communism fell without a shot being fired and the only reason why Communism still exists in the world today is because America loves the cheap goods that China produces.
As far as 2006 Lebanon war was concerned the only reason Israel went to war was to avenge the deaths of its soldiers that were killed and to demand the release of hostages. After significant infrastructure and homes in Lebanon were destroyed Hezbollah responded with a volley of rocket attacks that killed many more Israelis than were originally lost. Had the war been allowed to escalate Iran could have provided Hezbollah with long range rockets capable of hitting Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. These rockets would have been especially devastating because they could have been equipped with sophisticated computer control guidance systems and have significantly greater payloads. If Tel Aviv or Jerusalem suffered significant damage the war could have escalated to a war against Iran if it were suspected that Iran was giving Hezbollah advanced technology. Of course the war could have been avoided if Israel instead just wrote off its dead soldiers and hostages.
When we really examine a breeding ground for terrorism we have to conclude that in order to recruit terrorists more reasons have to be offered than just obeying the Koran or the promise of virgins. What motivates terrorists is either real or perceived greivances such as a relative dying in a Jihad or a home being bulldozed. Even if these terrorists got what the deserved there are still relatives who are willing to die to avenge the death and to continue the cycle of violence. Once the cycle of violence is broken terrorism will cease to exist and war will be obsolete.
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trollbot,
Your reasoning is warped. We have a muSSlim-nazi ideology that has been attempting to murder, enslave or forcibly convert non-muSSlims for 1300+ years. The idea that if we just stop fighting they will become civilised, open-minded and accept religious/ethnic pluralism is deluded, leftist fantasy. Evil MUST be destroyed............period. It cannot be negotiated with, compromised with or paid off. The attempted appeasment of hitler (Y'S) before WW2 should teach you that.
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androbot2084:
"Again it is like the same failed logic that America faced when we were fighting the Vietnam war. The politicians declared that we must stand up to a Commununist takeover of Vietnam otherwise there will be a domino effect and we will be fighting the Communists right here in America...."
-Untrue and a misrepresentation of history. Politicians declared that we must defend a free South Vietnam against the Viet Cong because if South Vietnam were to fall to Communism, a "domino effect" would result in which Vietnam's neighboring countries would then fall like dominos.
Never was it claimed that the U.S. would have to fight Communists at home.
And after the departure of the U.S. from Saigon, South Viet Nam was overrun by the Communists. A great bloodbath purge followed, during which Cambodia also fell to the Communist Khmer Rouge under Pol Pot. One of the worst genocidal bloodbaths in history followed, as Pol Pot murdered millions upon millions of his own people.
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androbot2084, you're such a completely propagandized and indoctrinated fool, that refuting each and all of your "historical revisionisms" is a complete waste of my time.
I will, however, offer you this deal:
I will agree with you that we both will end our own "cycle of violence", just so long as you end all self defense as I continue to slap the living sh*t out of you.
Deal?
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Shall I ban this leftard or what?
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I say get rid of him. I don't like what he wrote about how Israel defends itself. This guy is only warming up. Sooner or later he will have to go.
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A lot of people do not recognize a concept such as a "Cycle of Violence " because it tends to blame the victims of violence and terrorism as having brought it upon themselves for defending themselves.
According to the theory of the cycle of violence Israel responds to a suicide bus bombing by deploying helicopter gunships in order to assasinate the terrorist leaders responsible for the attacks. A rocket is fired from the helicopter and this rocket takes out the terrorist motorcade. Unfortunately although no civillians were intentionally targeted collateral damage does occur and the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi leaders soon denounce the IDF as baby killers and start recruiting more suicide bombers to carry out the next wave of terrorist attacks. After the next terrorist attack from the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis the IDF uses bulldozers to level the homes of the families of the suicide bombers. Since thier homes were leveled the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis seek to get revenge for what they percieve as a grave injustice. So according to the theory of the cycle of violence, violence will never end because both parties seek vengence and they want to get even. It is much like a compulsive gambler who continues to gamble so that he can get back the money he lost but he never wins because the odds are against him.
According to the theory of the cycle of violence, for violence to end the cycle merely has to be broken. So the next time there is a big terrorist attack Israel merely cuts its losses and does not respond. So now the cycle of violence is broken.
Of course Israel will say that it has a right to defend herself just like the United States defended itself after 911. However it has cost America the lives of 4000 soldiers to avenge the 3000 lives lost on 911.
Hi Androbot1084,
You try to find an answer to the question of how to stop the cycle of violence between the Jews and the arabs in Israel. You state that the revenge of Israel on attacks by arabs is causing more terrorist attacks.
I think at the other hand , that if Israel would not react against this violence, it would show that it is weak, or reluctant to use force, and thus this would provoke ever-more attacks.
So even if Israel steps out of the logic of revenging the murderattacks on its civilians, the arabs would keep attacking.
Why?!?
arabs think Israel is theirs. They want all of it back, and kick Jews in the sea.
What did Kahane say?
He said he would kick all the arabs out of Israel. "arabs out".
If Israel would kick them out, and attack and cripple the muslim neighbour-countries,
it would for sure end the cycle of violence.
If the arabs would know that in case they use violence, the force used against them, would be so massively overwhelming, that there would be thousands, or millions of deaths on their side,
then the arabs wouldn't harm a single Jew in the world.
So my answer to your question is simple:
To break the cycle, Israel must use the maximum amount of military force and expel all of arabs.
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Bravo Ambroix! O0