JTF.ORG Forum
Torah and Jewish Idea => Torah and Jewish Idea => Topic started by: IslamIsCancer on April 01, 2008, 01:23:09 PM
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I have one Jewish friend who is from Ukraine and she went to Israel last year to make an aliyah yet she eats pork and drinks alcohol.
She believes in god and all the stuff in Torah but she had a boyfriend for four years until they broke up, she is anti-muslim but of course not as much as JTFers or me. Would you consider her a Jew or shamelessly disown her just because she doesn't live by the book?
BTW she's a wonderful person one of the nicest Jews I met in my life.
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Please ask her to join JTF O0
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"BTW she's a wonderful person"
Nothing personal on her, but that is a contradictary statement. If one knowingly goes agains't what G-d said, then they are not a good person, it just cannot be. For example lets say you have a person who smiles and does good deeds to all the people around him, but his wife he treats like garbage, even though she cooks, cleans and takes care of him. She doesn't do anything wrong against him, and is faithful providing whatever he needs, but he just acts like that to his wife, now tell me is that a good person, just because they put a show or are really nice to other people, but are not to those who matter the most and who give him the most? (How much more soo with G-d who provides each individual with everything, every second the heart pumps blood, every second you have air avilable while your alive, etc.
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"BTW she's a wonderful person"
Nothing personal on her, but that is a contradictary statement. If one knowingly goes agains't what G-d said, then they are not a good person, it just cannot be. For example lets say you have a person who smiles and does good deeds to all the people around him, but his wife he treats like garbage, even though she cooks, cleans and takes care of him. She doesn't do anything wrong against him, and is faithful providing whatever he needs, but he just acts like that to his wife, now tell me is that a good person, just because they put a show or are really nice to other people, but are not to those who matter the most and who give him the most? (How much more soo with G-d who provides each individual with everything, every second the heart pumps blood, every second you have air avilable while your alive, etc.
Tzvi,
the best would be, when she would join the forum. ;)
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DISOWN HER WHO AM I TO DISOWN HER I'M FAR FROM PERFECT ,BUT LIKE GOLDEN PHEASANT SAID SHE SHOULD JOIN JTF
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She is absolutely a Jew.
Just because she doesn't follow everything 100% doesn't mean she is not Jewish.
You said she believes in G-d and everything in the Torah :)
So she's a little rough around the edges... still Jewish in my book! haha...
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"BTW she's a wonderful person"
Nothing personal on her, but that is a contradictary statement. If one knowingly goes agains't what G-d said, then they are not a good person, it just cannot be. For example lets say you have a person who smiles and does good deeds to all the people around him, but his wife he treats like garbage, even though she cooks, cleans and takes care of him. She doesn't do anything wrong against him, and is faithful providing whatever he needs, but he just acts like that to his wife, now tell me is that a good person, just because they put a show or are really nice to other people, but are not to those who matter the most and who give him the most? (How much more soo with G-d who provides each individual with everything, every second the heart pumps blood, every second you have air avilable while your alive, etc.
Tzvi,
the best would be, when she would join the forum. ;)
Maybe, but their are unfortunatly people (Jews) here who still eat pork. The best would be for her and everyone else listining to Rav Mizrach for example or learning from other great speakers and works (books). Let her visit ww.Torahanytime.com or for example www.Israel613.com and learn about each subject, and wake oneself up from this deep spiritual slumber that many (each) is in on their own level.
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Anyway about non-Kosher food, my Rabbi said on Shabb-t (from the Chafitz Chaim) a story from the Chafitz Chaim- a Jew was takin into the nations army (non-Jewish nation in Europe, probably Russia), and he had a choice of either being in a unit where he would be able to keep Shabb-t, but not Koshrut, or in a unit where he could get kosher foods (vegetables for example), and be the cook, but have to work on the Shabb-t. He asked the Chafitz Chaim which unit to join, the Chafitz Chaim said the one which breaks Shabb-t, but keeps Koshrut, because by eating non-Kosher he would also eventually break Shabb-t and many of the other laws.
It is very important of what a person eats, not just for health reasons which in this case is wayy secondary, but about the way a persons mind and soul will work. Eating non-Kosher makes one become a Rasha by then being attracted to and doing other crimes. That is also (like my Rav said), why on Pessah it says to punch the teeth of the Rasha (from the 4 sons), why the teeth? Because it was threw that that he ate forbidden foods, which lead him to being a Rasha.
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I am working on it now I hope she joins but I cant promise she is very obstinate sometimes.
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"BTW she's a wonderful person"
Nothing personal on her, but that is a contradictary statement. If one knowingly goes agains't what G-d said, then they are not a good person, it just cannot be. For example lets say you have a person who smiles and does good deeds to all the people around him, but his wife he treats like garbage, even though she cooks, cleans and takes care of him. She doesn't do anything wrong against him, and is faithful providing whatever he needs, but he just acts like that to his wife, now tell me is that a good person, just because they put a show or are really nice to other people, but are not to those who matter the most and who give him the most? (How much more soo with G-d who provides each individual with everything, every second the heart pumps blood, every second you have air avilable while your alive, etc.
Tzvi,
the best would be, when she would join the forum. ;)
Maybe, but their are unfortunatly people (Jews) here who still eat pork. The best would be for her and everyone else listining to Rav Mizrach for example or learning from other great speakers and works (books). Let her visit ww.Torahanytime.com or for example www.Israel613.com and learn about each subject, and wake oneself up from this deep spiritual slumber that many (each) is in on their own level.
You know I like Rabbi Mizrachi, althrough I have to disagree with him on a special point. ;
But you Jews here will get her back for shure, if she would listening to him or if she would ask our good Chaim.
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"althrough I have to disagree with him on a special point. ; "
I dont understand, explain here or PM.
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Why cant Jews eat pork but Christians and Catholics can ?
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Isn't the phrase "Jews who eat pork" kind of like the phrase "moderate muslims"?
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But if you look at it this way pigs roll around in there fecal matter but Chickens eat theres
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I ate pork for a long time (not recently), my fathers family also snuck it. What was irritating is that my cousins told me their parents wouldn't let them eat pork but they caught their parents sneaking shrimp or bacon all the time. My cousins also ate shrimp and bacon.
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I have one Jewish friend who is from Ukraine and she went to Israel last year to make an aliyah yet she eats pork and drinks alcohol.
She believes in G-d and all the stuff in Torah but she had a boyfriend for four years until they broke up, she is anti-muslim but of course not as much as JTFers or me. Would you consider her a Jew or shamelessly disown her just because she doesn't live by the book?
BTW she's a wonderful person one of the nicest Jews I met in my life.
Jews can drink alcohol ;D
Depends on what type of Jewess she is.
She sounds like she has a lot of brains, and only people that disown other Jews are not true themselves.
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I have one Jewish friend who is from Ukraine and she went to Israel last year to make an aliyah yet she eats pork and drinks alcohol.
She believes in G-d and all the stuff in Torah but she had a boyfriend for four years until they broke up, she is anti-muslim but of course not as much as JTFers or me. Would you consider her a Jew or shamelessly disown her just because she doesn't live by the book?
BTW she's a wonderful person one of the nicest Jews I met in my life.
There is always time to better oneself and do teshuva, and I am in no place to judge any Jew. The only Jew I would ever judge is a traitorous one (like a Shimon Peres). I think that's justified. BTW Jews are not forbidden to drink alcohol.
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sorry a little off topic but has Ariel sharon died yet because you don't hear that much about him
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"BTW she's a wonderful person"
Nothing personal on her, but that is a contradictary statement. If one knowingly goes agains't what G-d said, then they are not a good person, it just cannot be. For example lets say you have a person who smiles and does good deeds to all the people around him, but his wife he treats like garbage, even though she cooks, cleans and takes care of him. She doesn't do anything wrong against him, and is faithful providing whatever he needs, but he just acts like that to his wife, now tell me is that a good person, just because they put a show or are really nice to other people, but are not to those who matter the most and who give him the most? (How much more soo with G-d who provides each individual with everything, every second the heart pumps blood, every second you have air avilable while your alive, etc.
Oh please...enough with all this idealism. I find it ironic that the holy torah forbids eating probably one of the most tasty of meats, bacon.
I've been to Israel, and if some Jew eating bacon pisses you off, then you'll probably want to stay away from Jerusalem on a Saturday night, at least the bar scene. There was one bar that had a projection screen showing various images of hot naked Israeli ladies. I wasn't in that bar, I saw it from the outside, for any young Chassidic Herschel to see. Being in a bar is a whole other story...this orthodox lady on the trip was making out with some dude in the bar, and one other girl took a lucky lad back to the hotel. As for me, I wasn't innocent either, I probably dirty danced with every broad in the bar.
And you're kvetching about bacon.
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Jews can drink alcohol ;D
Actually there are certain times Jewish people are commanded to drink.
Just another reason why I am glad I am Jewish.
I dont know how those stupid chechen muslims live with themselves, they are in russia
and they are forbidden to drink. Idiots.
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Many russian Jewish people or Jewish people from that region are pretty far off the derek
that they have become accustomed to the habits of the surrounding population.
There is a certain amount of self-dislike for being Jewish mostly because that region has
conditioned us. Not because we geniunely hate ourselves.
In fact in the early part of the 20th century they had a problem feeding the population
because that bull communist revolution and the idiot known as stalin couldnt figure out
how to feed the population.
Hence many people turned to slaughtering anything they could find, many Jewish people did so too.
In Torah it is permitted to eat to survive in times of crisis.
She is no longer in that times of crisis so there is no reason to eat traif.
Before I become religiously observant I used to eat pork products, more out of ignorance
than out of taste. It is what was feed to me.
In my teens and early 20's I did not become religiously observant but I did stop
eating pork products. I knew as a Jewish person I was forbidden and there were plenty of other
permitted foods to eat so I saw no need to transgress that command.
I was never a fan of crab, shell fish or shrimp.
Today almost everything I eat is Kosher, I eat meat mostly only on Shabbos when I am invited to
the homes of people from my Shul.
I generally do not eat meat because I dont feel that I need to, but on Shabbos I have no problem indulging in chulent.
She will either come around to it or someone will show her the way or with Hashems help a little of both.
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She can drink you know as long as it is Kosher. But the Pork part you really need to talk with her about the reasons why eating Pig is forbidden in the Jewish Religion
I used to eat pork about 5 years ago and I also used to work on Shabbat until 2 years ago it is a proses that takes time and I'd ask you to be patient with here. Getting Religious doesn't happen over night. It's just like someone who converts it is a process
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Trivial question, in the event we are in famine or starvation, needing to survival, is it possible for a Jew to violate the kosher laws to eat say pork or non kosher for survival purposes?
What about prison?
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Trivial question, in the event we are in famine or starvation, needing to survival, is it possible for a Jew to violate the kosher laws to eat say pork or non kosher for survival purposes?
What about prison?
For a quick answer Yes. If it is a matter of Life or Death then yes you can break Kosher Law but only Life and Death. When it is a matter of life and death then Torah Laws don't apply. But Prision it is okay to only eat what is Kosher which won't be much I know but just ask Chaim what he did in Prision he only ate what is Kosher. In Prision you don't have to break Kosher laws unless you are dying
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Trivial question, in the event we are in famine or starvation, needing to survival, is it possible for a Jew to violate the kosher laws to eat say pork or non kosher for survival purposes?
What about prison?
For a quick answer Yes. If it is a matter of Life or Death then yes you can break Kosher Law but only Life and Death. When it is a matter of life and death then Torah Laws don't apply. But Prision it is okay to only eat what is Kosher which won't be much I know but just ask Chaim what he did in Prision he only ate what is Kosher. In Prision you don't have to break Kosher laws unless you are dying
My father was in prison for a while on gun related crimes, not sure what he did for kosher though. He got into a lot of fights though, that's for sure.
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What about prison?
Eat vegetables worse comes to worse. If it happens contact a legit Rabbi and ask what you should do. But the bottom line is that thank G-d we are free men and Kosher is available, if not then eat vegetables (but wash very well so theirs no worms).
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Trivial question, in the event we are in famine or starvation, needing to survival, is it possible for a Jew to violate the kosher laws to eat say pork or non kosher for survival purposes?
What about prison?
For a quick answer Yes. If it is a matter of Life or Death then yes you can break Kosher Law but only Life and Death. When it is a matter of life and death then Torah Laws don't apply. But Prision it is okay to only eat what is Kosher which won't be much I know but just ask Chaim what he did in Prision he only ate what is Kosher. In Prision you don't have to break Kosher laws unless you are dying
My father was in prison for a while on gun related crimes, not sure what he did for kosher though. He got into a lot of fights though, that's for sure.
I do want to clarify that in russia and especially in the ukraine there was a famine the main reason it doesnt measure up to the same scale as most african nation famines is because the land eastern europe was green.
People were mostly farmers and could plant food. But with stalin, may his name be erased, all or most industry shut down.
Food wasnt being delivered anywhere, people slaughtered their milk cows and when that was gone they slaughtered anything else that could be eaten.
The situation was most dire, on a scale that many Americans today simply cannot comprehend.
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http://www.kolyakov.org/scripts/media.php?file=media/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/2008-03-26/The_Ultimate_Medicine-Prevention_-_Ohr_Naava/Rabbi__Zecharia_Wallerstein__The_Ultimate_Medicine-Prevention_-_Ohr_Naava__2008-03-26.wmv
- Rabbi Wallerstein talks about specifically the pig and its symbolism, in this weeks lecture Thank G-d (from about 20 minutes and on).
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"BTW she's a wonderful person"
Nothing personal on her, but that is a contradictary statement. If one knowingly goes agains't what G-d said, then they are not a good person, it just cannot be. For example lets say you have a person who smiles and does good deeds to all the people around him, but his wife he treats like garbage, even though she cooks, cleans and takes care of him. She doesn't do anything wrong against him, and is faithful providing whatever he needs, but he just acts like that to his wife, now tell me is that a good person, just because they put a show or are really nice to other people, but are not to those who matter the most and who give him the most? (How much more soo with G-d who provides each individual with everything, every second the heart pumps blood, every second you have air avilable while your alive, etc.
Oh please...enough with all this idealism. I find it ironic that the holy torah forbids eating probably one of the most tasty of meats, bacon.
I didn't forbid eating pork, G-d does. I didn't (dont) even imagine that their are too many Jews who eat pork, but we shouldn't not because it is dirty or it doesn't taste good, we dont because G-d says not to do it, not to defile one's soul. By the way about what else is going on you are right it also should be stoped and G-d willing shut down complelty, G-d willing one day all the filth would be eliminated from the Holy Land and from the world in general, but a lot of this does start specifically because of the treif that people eat, which contaminates their minds and soul and makes them do furthur averot (a sin brings to it more sins).
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i never liked to eat lamb i don't even like pork that much i love venison ;D
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Pork and pigs should be banned by law in Israel. Some non-religious Jews may not only eat it themselves, but also give it to their innocent children, Chas veshalom
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Pork and pigs should be banned by law in Israel. Some non-religious Jews may not only eat it themselves, but also give it to their innocent children, Chas veshalom
Jews usually stay away from pork, but you usually have the Russian non-jews who love eating pork and try to force non-kosher, pig selling stores running. I agree it should be banned.
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in Israel, there is a Jew who is buying all of the pork factories and closing them down. so to find pork in Israel is starting to get very rare. hopefully some religious Jew will buy out all of the other evil things, such as strip clubs
Thank G-d O0 , one thing though I also heard that their was a Religious guy who wanted to buy a channel (or something like that), but they prevented him.
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That's sort of strange considering a lot of people don't eat pork for health reasons and even many Jews in the Reformed movement avoid pork
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"BTW she's a wonderful person"
Nothing personal on her, but that is a contradictary statement. If one knowingly goes agains't what G-d said, then they are not a good person, it just cannot be. For example lets say you have a person who smiles and does good deeds to all the people around him, but his wife he treats like garbage, even though she cooks, cleans and takes care of him. She doesn't do anything wrong against him, and is faithful providing whatever he needs, but he just acts like that to his wife, now tell me is that a good person, just because they put a show or are really nice to other people, but are not to those who matter the most and who give him the most? (How much more soo with G-d who provides each individual with everything, every second the heart pumps blood, every second you have air avilable while your alive, etc.
Oh please...enough with all this idealism. I find it ironic that the holy torah forbids eating probably one of the most tasty of meats, bacon.
I've been to Israel, and if some Jew eating bacon pisses you off, then you'll probably want to stay away from Jerusalem on a Saturday night, at least the bar scene. There was one bar that had a projection screen showing various images of hot naked Israeli ladies. I wasn't in that bar, I saw it from the outside, for any young Chassidic Herschel to see. Being in a bar is a whole other story...this orthodox lady on the trip was making out with some dude in the bar, and one other girl took a lucky lad back to the hotel. As for me, I wasn't innocent either, I probably dirty danced with every broad in the bar.
And you're kvetching about bacon.
The Torah is Holy, and the Torah is G-ds word, if G-d said we cant eat pig, lobster, shrimp, meat-milk products same time for example cheeseburger. then thats what we Jews must keep.
for you bacon might be the most tasty meat, but i never tried the pig, and lamb is definitely more delicious and and healtier.
whatever G-d says we must keep, even if we might think its Ironic.
What I'm getting at is that while the Torah is holy, there's also unholy human nature. Have you ever jackeoff Yonatan? Don't beat yourself up if you have.
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"BTW she's a wonderful person"
Nothing personal on her, but that is a contradictary statement. If one knowingly goes agains't what G-d said, then they are not a good person, it just cannot be. For example lets say you have a person who smiles and does good deeds to all the people around him, but his wife he treats like garbage, even though she cooks, cleans and takes care of him. She doesn't do anything wrong against him, and is faithful providing whatever he needs, but he just acts like that to his wife, now tell me is that a good person, just because they put a show or are really nice to other people, but are not to those who matter the most and who give him the most? (How much more soo with G-d who provides each individual with everything, every second the heart pumps blood, every second you have air avilable while your alive, etc.
Oh please...enough with all this idealism. I find it ironic that the holy torah forbids eating probably one of the most tasty of meats, bacon.
I've been to Israel, and if some Jew eating bacon pisses you off, then you'll probably want to stay away from Jerusalem on a Saturday night, at least the bar scene. There was one bar that had a projection screen showing various images of hot naked Israeli ladies. I wasn't in that bar, I saw it from the outside, for any young Chassidic Herschel to see. Being in a bar is a whole other story...this orthodox lady on the trip was making out with some dude in the bar, and one other girl took a lucky lad back to the hotel. As for me, I wasn't innocent either, I probably dirty danced with every broad in the bar.
And you're kvetching about bacon.
The Torah is Holy, and the Torah is G-ds word, if G-d said we cant eat pig, lobster, shrimp, meat-milk products same time for example cheeseburger. then thats what we Jews must keep.
for you bacon might be the most tasty meat, but i never tried the pig, and lamb is definitely more delicious and and healtier.
whatever G-d says we must keep, even if we might think its Ironic.
What I'm getting at is that while the Torah is holy, there's also unholy human nature. Have you ever jackeoff Yonatan? Don't beat yourself up if you have, I'm sure even Moshe squeezed a few off in his day too.
You speak very dirty and I request you change the way you say things. Someones sins are not your buisness, no one has to confess to you + what you said about Moshe is disqusting and people shouldn't put their low dirty filthy attidude into great (the greatest) people like Moshe. One can even deduce that he never has done it- but its not for now.
About sins, okay people have done sins in the past but who said you cant change? Because others do something wrong doesn't justify you (or me or anyone else) doing it. Thats why one has to learn Torah, learn the laws and change their sins/mistakes.
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What I'm getting at is that while the Torah is holy, there's also unholy human nature. Have you ever jackeoff Yonatan? Don't beat yourself up if you have, I'm sure even Moshe squeezed a few off in his day too.
WHAT ?????? >:( >:( >:(
FIRST OF ALL, MOSES spoke dirrectly with G-D !!!!
Even muslims respect him ....
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I hope none of you think you are good for not eating pork or think you are good enough to follow the law, remember if you ever break the law you are a law breaker and guilty of all, this is why Mosses said the BOOK was to be a whitness against them, WHY? to show them that they could never follow the law. the law is only a mirror to show you how ugly you are. thier is no punishment until the law is given, then look out because the wrath comes. Pork goes down the throat and out the body ,but the lust of the flesh and the pride of life are what truely kills and maimes man. The Bible says men will proclaim thier own goodness...........Let you not do this and profain the name of the LORD. Even King David knew this..
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I hope none of you think you are good for not eating pork or think you are good enough to follow the law, remember if you ever break the law you are a law breaker and guilty of all, this is why Mosses said the BOOK was to be a whitness against them, WHY? to show them that they could never follow the law. the law is only a mirror to show you how ugly you are. thier is no punishment until the law is given, then look out because the wrath comes. Pork goes down the throat and out the body ,but the lust of the flesh and the pride of life are what truely kills and maimes man. The Bible says men will proclaim thier own goodness...........Let you not do this and profain the name of the LORD. Even King David knew this..
Yes one who perfects him/her self in a certain Mitzva (and G-d willing all of them) should feel the accomplishment of the mitzva (whatever the level).
And you are wrong, it is possible to follow the Torah complelty (do all the laws that apply to you). Saying it is impossible is a loser way of looking at life, G-d doesn't give someone a test they cannot pass. Now does that mean that one should be in a deep depression after realizing that they are living the wrong way in their life? No not completly, but one does need to have the proper awareness (and that comes about by learning Torah and Mussar), and then correct oneself. G-d gave a fine gift to Israel and that is Tishuva, one should make Tishuva for one's sins and mistakes and not try to justify why they are a loser in life, by saying ooh no one is perfect, or its not possible to keep or similar statements like that. You have to have confidence in G-d and also confidence in yourself in that you can accomplish great things (spiritually).
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Brother I truly love you, but their is no way you can follow all the laws of Mosses or even the TEN COMANDMENTS all the time never to break. Thats not being a loser its just acknowledging that their is only one GOOD That is GOD. "Let GOD be true and all of us liars" and " Be ye holy as I am holy says the LORD." Don't believe in yourself but believe in HIM, and HIM only. Please I mean no offense
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"BTW she's a wonderful person"
Nothing personal on her, but that is a contradictary statement. If one knowingly goes agains't what G-d said, then they are not a good person, it just cannot be. For example lets say you have a person who smiles and does good deeds to all the people around him, but his wife he treats like garbage, even though she cooks, cleans and takes care of him. She doesn't do anything wrong against him, and is faithful providing whatever he needs, but he just acts like that to his wife, now tell me is that a good person, just because they put a show or are really nice to other people, but are not to those who matter the most and who give him the most? (How much more soo with G-d who provides each individual with everything, every second the heart pumps blood, every second you have air avilable while your alive, etc.
Oh please...enough with all this idealism. I find it ironic that the holy torah forbids eating probably one of the most tasty of meats, bacon.
I've been to Israel, and if some Jew eating bacon pisses you off, then you'll probably want to stay away from Jerusalem on a Saturday night, at least the bar scene. There was one bar that had a projection screen showing various images of hot naked Israeli ladies. I wasn't in that bar, I saw it from the outside, for any young Chassidic Herschel to see. Being in a bar is a whole other story...this orthodox lady on the trip was making out with some dude in the bar, and one other girl took a lucky lad back to the hotel. As for me, I wasn't innocent either, I probably dirty danced with every broad in the bar.
And you're kvetching about bacon.
The Torah is Holy, and the Torah is G-ds word, if G-d said we cant eat pig, lobster, shrimp, meat-milk products same time for example cheeseburger. then thats what we Jews must keep.
for you bacon might be the most tasty meat, but i never tried the pig, and lamb is definitely more delicious and and healtier.
whatever G-d says we must keep, even if we might think its Ironic.
What I'm getting at is that while the Torah is holy, there's also unholy human nature. Have you ever jackeoff Yonatan? Don't beat yourself up if you have, I'm sure even Moshe squeezed a few off in his day too.
first of all, watch your mouth. second, i never have. and how dare you speak that way about Moshe Rabanu. if you keep continuing your disgusting and your loshon haroh especially on one of the greatest Jews to ever live (Moshe) then get the hell off jtf
Is it just me, or do I smelll [censored]?
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Brother I truly love you, but their is no way you can follow all the laws of Mosses or even the TEN COMANDMENTS all the time never to break. Thats not being a loser its just acknowledging that their is only one GOOD That is G-d. "Let G-d be true and all of us liars" and " Be ye holy as I am holy says the LORD." Don't believe in yourself but believe in HIM, and HIM only. Please I mean no offense
If we want, we can. And even if we are not 100% of our potential which is obvious, why stay at 2% or 5%, if one is 5% make it at least 10. At 10% make it 20, and on and on, but dont give up on yourself, if you want you can with G-d's help. G-d didn't create us to be animals in a higher form, we are humans and even higher- the children of Israel whom He commanded to do this, and dont do that, G-d says, I give you this day a choice between life and death, the good and the bad, and you SHALL choose life.
Having the other philosophical point of view, is really the amalik within. That is the philosphy of amalik- that we are nothing but animals/ robots. But Judasim (G-d), says no, the opposite you have a choice and will be responsible for every action, punished for the bad (looking at the different levels of punishments) and rewarded for the good.
And really the amalik/doubts come from the Rabbis say from eating non-Kosher foods (see the circle how it all comes around). Doing some work on yourself, and conquering along with learning Torah this will clarify and open your mind and show you that you can accomplish what G-d set for you to do.
"You are not required to finish the job, but neither are you free to leave off from it" (Pirkie Avot)
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Moses didn't waste seed. He didn't even have relations with his wife because he had to be pure because G-d could speak to him any moment and even seed in marital relations causes tum'a (impurity).
You are right, but not completly for regular human beings. When one gets to Moshe's level then one can think of this question. But in actuality having kosher relations (Jewish male and Jewish female, after marriage, not during the time of nidda and after she goes into Mikva) can itself be a Tikkun for past misdeeds, and a mitzva when done in holiness.
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Re: "...He didn't even have relations with his wife because he had to be pure because G-d could speak to him any moment and even seed in marital relations causes tum'a (impurity)..."
Why did Moses marry and take a wife?
I had always thought it was incumbent for Jewish men to take a wife and have children.
I also had always thought that Jewish women had rights to their physical fulfillment within marriage.
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Re: "...He didn't even have relations with his wife because he had to be pure because G-d could speak to him any moment and even seed in marital relations causes tum'a (impurity)..."
Why did Moses marry and take a wife?
I had always thought it was incumbent for Jewish men to take a wife and have children.
I also had always thought that Jewish women had rights to their physical fulfillment within marriage.
Yes you are right. Thats why we shouldn't really bring that up too much as an example (althought, Yakov was right in that a man who was on that level how much more soo, didn't commit the other sin) because it gives the false impression that that is the goal, when infact the real goal of Jewish men is to be happily married, and fullfilling the laws of Taharat Mishpach properly.
(and anyway with Moshe, he did marry and have children (2) ).
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Wow, if anyone here believes what ben Yakov says...such silly idealism.
I will not apologize, and I'm sure Freud, a Jew, would agree. It's a little thing called the genital phase.
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Khazan...most of Freud's theories are RUBBISH!
Part of what he wrote, he did out of his OWN sexual frustrations! He even wrote that he had sexual desires for his oldest daughter!
There is NO excuse to attack or say anything inappropriate about Moshe in a religious forum.
I'm just being practical...most males have at least once in their lives masturbated, and there's no exception to the holy rollers, look at Catholic priests of the past and present, but especially the past. I think one of the Popes back in the day fathered quite a few children.
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But if you look at it this way pigs roll around in there fecal matter but Chickens eat theres
There is more to the prohibition to what animals roll around and eat what-not.
The reason pigs are forbidden is because:
Mammals that both chew their cud (ruminate) and have cloven hooves are kosher. Animals with one characteristic but not the other (the camel, the hyrax and the hare because they have no cloven hooves, and the pig because it does not ruminate) are specifically excluded (Leviticus 11:3-8).[2]
So pigs are forbidden, chicken is kosher because it is not a bird of prey (like eagles or vultures)
Are goat & duck meats kosher?
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Khazan...most of Freud's theories are RUBBISH!
Part of what he wrote, he did out of his OWN sexual frustrations! He even wrote that he had sexual desires for his oldest daughter!
There is NO excuse to attack or say anything inappropriate about Moshe in a religious forum.
I'm just being practical...most males have at least once in their lives masturbated, and there's no exception to the holy rollers, look at Catholic priests of the past and present, but especially the past. I think one of the Popes back in the day fathered quite a few children.
Excuse me khazan, but this thread is not about one hundred and one ways to transgress the Torah.
Maybe you want to go join an anti-Jewish forum somewhere on the internet if you want to undermine Judaism.
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Khazan: "...What I'm getting at is that while the Torah is holy, there's also unholy human nature. Have you ever jackeoff Yonatan? Don't beat yourself up if you have, I'm sure even Moshe squeezed a few off in his day too..."
Khazan,
Such language is unacceptable.
Period.
I expect to encounter such garbage in the gutter, but not on this forum, and not within civilized discourse.
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I'm sorry Khazan, but I had to edit your post disparaging Moshe Rabbeinu. Please bear in mind that this is a religious forum! Thank you!
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Wow, if anyone here believes what ben Yakov says...such silly idealism.
I will not apologize, and I'm sure Freud, a Jew, would agree. It's a little thing called the genital phase.
Wow so because Freud was Jew that makes him an authority on something? There have been countless numbers of Jews who lived and died, but the last people to be an authority on anything JEWISH would be some self-hating anti-Torah Jew like freud.
Listen bro, face facts, each person has to account for what they themself did, Not what SOMEONE ELSE did, so there's no sense in you projecting your own problems onto someone else. It is completely inappopriate to even "accuse" someone about that on this forum, but for crying out loud, if he says no his answer is no. No reason to doubt him. Are you trying to justify something there buddy?
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I'm sorry Khazan, but I had to edit your post disparaging Moshe Rabbeinu. Please bear in mind that this is a religious forum! Thank you!
Why does religion need to be placed on a pedastal? Now, I'm sure if I went off on how the Qu'ran could be used as toilet paper, you would find that funny. But, me saying somewhat riske about a religious figure of your said religion, then that's wrong.
I see a lot of teleological fallacies here on this forum. Yes, the torah is an ancient work of supposed holy origins. But does it have the answer for everything? Kahane-was-right, wouldn't Frued have more authority on psychosexual development than Moses? The torah simply does not have an explanation for everything.
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Khazan: "...wouldn't Frued have more authority on psychosexual development than Moses?..."
Moses didn't smoke cigars and sniff cocaine like Freud.
I don't recall ancient Israelites being too concerned about "psychosexual development" from my Torah studies. They got married at age 13, had a good time with slave girls, captured virgins, etc..., and then they died about age 35. They killed queers. That way there were less parades. They also killed lesbos and witches. Only modern man has had enough free time on his hands to develop neuroses and other problems from thinking too much and watching television.
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" But does it have the answer for everything? Kahane-was-right, wouldn't Frued have more authority on psychosexual development than Moses? The torah simply does not have an explanation for everything."
"If you say the Torah is empty its because you are empty" - Thats from the Torah. You have to study the Torah to understand all the deeper concepts thats are in it. It contains many secrets upon secrets (also plain studies also). You can find psychology, and even more soo about a way to live life. Dont stay ignorant.
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Khazan: "...wouldn't Frued have more authority on psychosexual development than Moses?..."
Moses didn't smoke cigars and sniff cocaine like Freud.
Moses was tripping acacia according to an Israeli scientist. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=525993&in_page_id=1770
Lets be honest, the torah is filled with many screwed up things, like Lot offering his daughters to rape instead of him and other men. You suggest that there was no possibility that there were some Israelites jacking off in the tent while wandering for 40 years in the desert?
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Khazan: "...wouldn't Frued have more authority on psychosexual development than Moses?..."
Moses didn't smoke cigars and sniff cocaine like Freud.
Moses was tripping acacia according to an Israeli scientist. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=525993&in_page_id=1770
Lets be honest, the torah is filled with many screwed up things, like Lot offering his daughters to rape instead of him and other men. You suggest that there was no possibility that there were some Israelites jacking off in the tent while wandering for 40 years in the desert?
Your language is disgusting and unacceptible, I hope one of the admins warn you and if you continue you should be banned for talking like that.
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Khazan: "...wouldn't Frued have more authority on psychosexual development than Moses?..."
Moses didn't smoke cigars and sniff cocaine like Freud.
Moses was tripping acacia according to an Israeli scientist. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=525993&in_page_id=1770
Lets be honest, the torah is filled with many screwed up things, like Lot offering his daughters to rape instead of him and other men. You suggest that there was no possibility that there were some Israelites jacking off in the tent while wandering for 40 years in the desert?
Your language is disgusting and unacceptible, I hope one of the admins warn you and if you continue you should be banned for talking like that.
Is masturbated a more apt term for this forum?
I'm not trying to bash the torah, I'm doing the torah justice in asking these questions. It's a fine work, every Torah has been the same since the time of Moses (with exception to some Yeminite torah's if memory serves me correctly).
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Khazan: "...wouldn't Frued have more authority on psychosexual development than Moses?..."
Moses didn't smoke cigars and sniff cocaine like Freud.
Moses was tripping acacia according to an Israeli scientist. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=525993&in_page_id=1770
Lets be honest, the torah is filled with many screwed up things, like Lot offering his daughters to rape instead of him and other men. You suggest that there was no possibility that there were some Israelites jacking off in the tent while wandering for 40 years in the desert?
Your language is disgusting and unacceptible, I hope one of the admins warn you and if you continue you should be banned for talking like that.
Is masturbated a more apt term for this forum?
I'm not trying to bash the torah, I'm doing the torah justice in asking these questions. It's a fine work, every Torah has been the same since the time of Moses (with exception to some Yeminite torah's if memory serves me correctly).
No, you are mocking atleast 3000 years of written and recorded history and using a cocaine addled non-observant Jewish person to make your argument.
My question to you is how much do YOU know about Judaism? If there is something you need to confess or do chuvah for perhaps you need to speak to a Rabbi. Going to an internet forum and trying to justify wrong behaviour by bashing and mocking a document that has existed for atleast three millennia doesnt disprove the document.
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I'm not trying to bash the torah, I'm doing the torah justice in asking these questions. It's a fine work, every Torah has been the same since the time of Moses (with exception to some Yeminite torah's if memory serves me correctly).
The Yemini Torah is the same also. They are all the same with the same words.
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Moses was tripping acacia according to an Israeli scientist. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=525993&in_page_id=1770
First of all, you have to be an idiot if you believe that story (no offense). The guy has no scientific evidence to back him up, no proof, no suggestions. He simply made up the idea and sold it as fact. His stupidity is even further evident by the fact that he hasn't even bothered to read the Torah passages in depth that deal with the subject he speaks of!!! So, no scientific evidence AND no Torah evidence. Wow, real convincing. Here is a comment I put in another thread that discussed this topic:
He must not have kept reading. Someone should show this "researcher" the Torah. You know, the part that says,
"For ask now regarding the early days that were before you, since the day that G-d created man upon the earth, and from one end of the heavens to the other end of the heavens, whether there was anything like this great thing, or was the likes of it heard?
Did ever a people hear G-d's voice speaking out of the midst of the fire as you have heard, and live?
Or has any G-d performed miracles to come and take him a nation from the midst of a[nother] nation, with trials, with signs, and with wonders, and with war and with a strong hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great awesome deeds, as all that the Lord your G-d did for you in Egypt before your eyes?
You have been shown, in order to know that the Lord He is G-d; there is none else besides Him"
-Devarim (Deuteronomy) 4:32-35
This is the part that says how it was a unique collective revelation experience that no nation would ever experience again. If it was just a run-of-the-mill drug high that anyone could get from some tree bark, then surely it would have happened again to many groups of people, millions of times. The Torah itself lets us know that this person's theory is insane. Some researcher. Looks like he never even reviewed the text...
Now:
You suggest that there was no possibility that there were some Israelites [censored] in the tent while wandering for 40 years in the desert?
Let's put it this way. If any Israelite was doing that, then he was sinning by doing it. Just like if you or any of us did it. But most likely, that particular sin was not such a challenge for them back then as it is for us, for many many reasons.
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I just thought that was an interesting theory.
How do you mean they would not have the challenges to commit the sin of self abuse (there, I think I found an apt term for that) back then as we do now? And if it were committed, lets say ma walks in, how would the sin have been treated? Have any of you read Portnoy's complaint by the way? It's a rather comedic book that goes into the sexual development of a Jewish boy growing up in New York, a good read.
The bit about the Yeminite torah I found here
"The fact is, that after all the trials and tribulations, communal dislocations and persecutions, only the Yemenite Torah scrolls contain any difference from the rest of world Jewry. For hundreds of years, the Yemenite community was not part of the global checking system, and a total of nine letter-differences are found in their scrolls."
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/torahaccuracy.htm
Granted, it's still the same torah with exception to the 9 spelling variants, which is good enough for government work when you consider the amount of errors in the christian new testament, many of which change the meaning of the text.
With that in mind, I'll say that the Torah is a work that I fear and respect. Now, I know you'll think in lieu of what I have said that I do not respect the torah, but that is my way of respecting it. By showing a degree of disrespect (more being a smart-ass) I end up respecting it mores so. Some of it does not make sense to me, some of it at times seems pure fables and fiction, but I always end up falling back on the side of this is a special text.
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By showing a degree of disrespect (more being a smart-donkey) I end up respecting it mores so. Some of it does not make sense to me, some of it at times seems pure fables and fiction, but I always end up falling back on the side of this is a special text.
This is some hokey buddhist crap. 'By showing a degree of disrespect you are showing respect', thats like saying two wrongs make a right.
Example:
I support Serbia but my support for Serbia ends at its eastern borders and does not automatically translate into support for russia.I do NOT support china for the same reasons. My support for Serbia is not to curry favor with any eastern bloc country. My support for Serbia is for the sake of society, for the sake of a nations sovereignty. Had Clinton stayed out of Serbia at the very least America would have had far more powerful allies with islamofascism. In fact had Clinton assisted Serbia America would have had a far more powerful ally in eastern europe and against islamofasicsm and russia would not have had the political pull it does today.
There are misguided so-called Jews who support albania. Why would they do that?Because in their minds supporting albania is as if opposing russia. There are people in America who support fidel castrate. Why?Because in their narrow little minds they see castro as the counter balance to American superiority.
Futhermore you arent talking about respect or disrespect, what YOU are doing is babbling on about something that you have no clue about. Much like some people support illegal immigration, they think that if all of a sudden if the flow was shut the well would run dry. That is false.
Again if you need mental help go see a Rabbi or a mental health professional.
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I just thought that was an interesting theory.
How do you mean they would not have the challenges to commit the sin of self abuse (there, I think I found an apt term for that) back then as we do now?
Firstly, we are not interested in wacked out "theories" that some drug peddlar "discovers" in his basement or in his dreams. We have the truth as attested to by our forefathers and as WITNESSED in a mass revelation of G-d on Mt. Sinai, witnessed by the nation of Israel. We protected and safeguarded this holy truth, which contains not only this supernatural experience on the mountain, but also the scores of other miracles provided for the Jewish people by Hashem throughout the text. Of course, that is yet another shortsightedness of this guy's despicable theory, but we've already refuted him. Back on the subject matter at hand, also contained in this text are the prophesies fulfilled and those we still await, and we will cherish this gift from G-d and treat it with the dignity and honor it deserves.
I understand if you mean that asking tough questions, and deep philosophical questions about Torah causes you to have more respect for the work. Of course pursue those questions, and we all do/should. But this was not what you displayed here. Instead, you used disgusting language and immaturity that is entirely inappropriate for the holiness of our sacred Torah. So watch the language and try to have respect by having... respect, rather than disrespect. There are ways to question (even on topics like this that are sexual or graphic in nature) without doing so in a brazen immature fashion that puts a negative or insolent remark against the Torah, G-d forbid, or slanders our great Jewish prophets and leaders, G-d forbid.
As to your question. Well MassuhDgoodname has stated some of the reasons already in this thread. They got married younger, they had sometimes even multiple wives, etc. But I would add this. They were also more righteous than us in those generations. The farther we get away from the generation that received revelation on Mt. Sinai the further removed we are from 'consciousness' of G-d and the more we err (also requires us to build more emunah = faith). This kind of challenge would not only be less challenging (they had other more pressing issues like idol worship, which for us today is not such a challenge), but it would also be easier to resist even thinking bad thoughts due to the modest environment, societal norms etc. I would also note that our generation is consumed by sex. It is all around us, women expose themselves, nudity is everywhere, and immodest behavior has become the norm, university/frat style parties are the accepted way to 'have fun.' This is not only new in the modern world vs. the ancient, this is fairly new compared to the 1940's and 50's when women did dress modestly. It is difficult to imagine what the world looked like then. In the modern period, we also have dirty magazines and all the other filth that gets circulated and through the internet, and men get into bad habits - and quickly in life. There are many reasons why this subject/sin would be beneath the dignity of those earlier generations. It is unfortunate that we have many men struggling with this problem today, but it is a challenge that can be defeated and we can amass great reward for doing so.
Maybe going in depth on a topic like this one (the 'self abuse' issue) might be more appropriate in a private venue rather than a public forum like this, but it is a legitimate question when framed properly and in a respectful manner.
Granted, it's still the same torah with exception to the 9 spelling variants,
But every single word is still the same. Even in the Yemenite Torah where they have a few varations on silent letters or spell certain words in a different manner (for instance, a yud in a place where there is no yud elsewhere but the word is pronounced the same way because in both cases it's the same word and can be spelled with a vowel -vowels are not written in Torah script - or with a yud. Thus the yud is unnecessary for the ee sound built into the word. These are the sort of variations we're talking about.) the Torah from front to back is still all the same Hebrew words in the same precise order without exception and pronounced the same (phonetically speaking, of course with varying dialects/accents in different cultures and parts of the world). This is actually quite a feat that we were able to preserve the Torah in such precise authenticity word for word. Of course we were given an Oral Tradition with the instructions on how to transmit the Torah that ensured our potential to do this, and we obviously fanatically cherished it as sacred from G-d so as to not add in our own errors to His holy books, but still it is a pretty underrated literary achievement in my opinion.
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But if you look at it this way pigs roll around in there fecal matter but Chickens eat theres
There is more to the prohibition to what animals roll around and eat what-not.
The reason pigs are forbidden is because:
Mammals that both chew their cud (ruminate) and have cloven hooves are kosher. Animals with one characteristic but not the other (the camel, the hyrax and the hare because they have no cloven hooves, and the pig because it does not ruminate) are specifically excluded (Leviticus 11:3-8).[2]
So pigs are forbidden, chicken is kosher because it is not a bird of prey (like eagles or vultures)
Are goat & duck meats kosher?
yes
Thank you.