JTF.ORG Forum
Israel => Save Israel => Topic started by: Mifletzet on April 24, 2008, 03:08:50 PM
-
"This people I created for Me that they may relate My Praise" (Yeshaya 43).
Like all his predecessors, Israeli Air Force chief Shkedy boasts of Israel's prowess and with typical misplaced Israeli overconfidence, without mentioning G-d, thus failing on even a minimum level Israel's very raison d'etre!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/24/60minutes/main4040294.shtml
Israeli air force crews are specially selected to be ultra-chilloni, rachmonus aleihem, poor sods.
There has never been a kippa-wearing pilot. If an israeli pilot shows signs of becoming baal teshuvah and putting on tefillin, he is immediately demoted to ground crew! Torah outreach rabbis are completely banned from cheyl avir bases!
I predict that however pathetic a failure Halutz was, Shkedy and Ashkenazi will be even worse when push comes to shove!
(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04QqcKxdR86Kj/610x.jpg)
-
What?? that is blastfamy. How in God's name can they get away with this??
-
And we wonder why a group of Hamori , can take on and defeat the "allmighty" Israeli army. ::)
-
I am beginning to suspect that the Judaist religion has little or no power in Israel...
-
Despite their increasing numbers, the Orthodox influence in Israel is actually in decline: as sure sign of Hashem's disapproval with them too!
120 Israeli jets were shot down in the Yom Kippur War. A conflict with Syria, Iran and Hezbollah, stuffed with the latest Russian Sams, could see even higher losses ch"v, let alone the Arabs now being to preempt and hit Israel's 3 large air force bases with rockets with 1000kg warheads before their F16s and F15s even get in to the sky!
(http://fapomatic.com/0816/idf_kill_lineup1.jpg)
An Israeli attack on the Iranian nuclear bases could become a disaster, with no aircraft returning, and bailed out pilots falling into Ahmadinejad's hands!
At least Menachem Begin occasionally invoked the Name of Hashem, hence the 1981 Osirak Raid success!
-
Wow this is VERY very bad indeed!!! :o
It makes me fear for Israel, well a lot more. How can we expect for the Air Force to win when they don't even believe in G-d? And for that matter, why would G-d let the Israeli Air Force win when they don't believe in Him?
Very bad.
There are however units in the IDF that are from Religous people only
-
I am beginning to suspect that the Judaist religion has little or no power in Israel...
Therefore we must save Israel from the muSSlim Nazi invasion
-
Indeed but we must move there and become the majority. We can't allow that pig smolmert allow another 80,000 Arab Muslim Nazis into Palestine
-
"This people I created for Me that they may relate My Praise" (Yeshaya 43).
Like all his predecessors, Israeli Air Force chief Shkedy boasts of Israel's prowess and with typical misplaced Israeli overconfidence, without mentioning G-d, thus failing on even a minimum level Israel's very raison d'etre!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/24/60minutes/main4040294.shtml
Israeli air force crews are specially selected to be ultra-chilloni, rachmonus aleihem, poor sods.
There has never been a kippa-wearing pilot. If an israeli pilot shows signs of becoming baal teshuvah and putting on tefillin, he is immediately demoted to ground crew! Torah outreach rabbis are completely banned from cheyl avir bases!
I predict that however pathetic a failure Halutz was, Shkedy and Ashkenazi will be even worse when push comes to shove!
(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04QqcKxdR86Kj/610x.jpg)
I agree that the IAF is super secular and not religious but I doubt a situation ever occured with a pilot becoming religious and being demoted. I don't think they would do that after all the training. I doubt that happened. I do agree though that the air force had tons of kikes in it that wrote a letter refusing the perform missions which would help yesha. I think they cleaned those kikes out though. I am not saying that they like relgious jews or that they would accept them but I doubt a situation ever occured with a pilot being thrown out for becoming a baal teshuva. I do agree with you overall though about the situation.
-
I know that some of the ground crews were yarmulkes I know that their are no pilots like that. I agree that it is sick that they refuse to accept religious jews. It bothers me. That is real discrimination. You can bet that when Chaim takes over, the air force will be a thousand times better than it is now.
-
What the hell is smolmert doing in that picture. That kike is a member of hamas and I am sure he reports to hamas all of the IAF's secrets. Why wont that kike drop dead already or just join his homosexual children in NY.
-
Olmert's "lovely" daughter, Dana, a raving lesbian and extreme left-wing activist!
(http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/20122005/806731/ddd3_A.jpg)
(http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/20122005/937368/YE0520828_a.jpg)
-
Israelis are not kikes, well some of us are but they are just a small fraction of us. I'm pretty sure there are religious pilots. Every year the IAF publish general statistics about the graduating pilots so if you doubt it you can check it out. And I also know of pilots who actually made teshuva and asked to leave but the IAF refused and finally Rabbi Shach ztz"l instructed them to stay and comlpete their duty because the had made a commitment.
-
Olmert's "lovely" daughter, Dana, a raving lesbian and extreme left-wing activist!
(http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/20122005/806731/ddd3_A.jpg)
(http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/20122005/937368/YE0520828_a.jpg)
This doesn't shock me. Just like the Clinton's daughter
-
One reason they won't allow religious pilots is the fear that one of them could go "Messianic", and bomb the Mosque that defiles the Temple Mount, thereby starting WWIII!
(http://www.sacred-destinations.com/israel/images/jerusalem/temple-mount/Temple_mount-wp.jpg)
-
<<One reason they won't allow religious pilots is the fear that one of them could go "Messianic", and bomb the Mosque that defiles the Temple Mount, thereby starting WWIII!>>
The sooner the better.
-
One reason they won't allow religious pilots is the fear that one of them could go "Messianic", and bomb the Mosque that defiles the Temple Mount, thereby starting WWIII!
(http://www.sacred-destinations.com/israel/images/jerusalem/temple-mount/Temple_mount-wp.jpg)
besides that, theirs no point of going patriotic and joining that hiloni organization, if things stay the way they are I wouldn't instruct my sons (daughters not even a question) to join any of their organizations, even Religious-only units, if they have to be subordinate and give respect to hilonim.
-
A question about hypothetical but likely to occur scenarios...
Last week an incident at an airport took place, during which an observant Jew was removed from a commercial plane's passenger section and removed from the plane, due to his refusal to stop his morning Amidah prayers and sit down for takeoff.
The removed passenger and his companions were of the opinion that they were "singled out" and received unfair treatment, due to their claim that the morning prayers may not be interrupted.
Suppose a confirmed incoming invasion by Syria's air force occurs.
The order is given for Israeli pilots to immediately scramble and repulse the invasion at all costs, Syrian warplanes expected over Tel-Aviv within 20 seconds of receiving their orders.
Or perhaps the same warning as above is issued on Shabbat.
Are there any issues surrounding strictly observant Jewish pilots, by which the Israeli Air Force as well as the entire Jewish nation might be compromised as a result of pilots insisting that their first obligation is to Ha'Shem, and only afterwards will they carry out military orders?
I ask this with no preconceptions; but I am curious to know if there are solid and good reasons why the Israeli Air Force might prefer nonobservant fighter pilots and backup crews.
The same issue, paradoxically, surrounds the IDF pogrom recently carried out against their fellow Jews living in Gaza...the Torah forbids it, while the State demands it without question.
I can't wait for the discussions which hopefully will follow this.
-
"Are there any issues surrounding strictly observant Jewish pilots, by which the Israeli Air Force as well as the entire Jewish nation might be compromised as a result of pilots insisting that their first obligation is to Ha'Shem, and only afterwards will they carry out military orders? "
Without a doubt, stop praying and fight- that is the Halacha by ALL. Its a matter of Pikuah Nefesh. (I can also bring examples of why)
-
Re: "...One reason they won't allow religious pilots is the fear that one of them could go "Messianic", and bomb the Mosque that defiles the Temple Mount, thereby starting WWIII!"
This could never happen.
Any pilot doing something like that would be set upon by the "Postcards from Jerusalem Vendors", Local Union 12.
This would require all brand new photographs be made to put on the new postcards, and the Union already invested millions in the old ones.
-
Zelhar, I have to say that Rabbi Shach himself is not to be trusted because of his land for peace and anti lubavitch beliefs. As far as the air force is concerned, I do agree that their anti religious attitude is totally insane and hopefully we will see jtf take over israel soon and clean this drek up. I still think that Israel has the best air force in the world and that israel planes will not be shot down by muzzy nazi iran or anyone else. As powerful as the israeli air force is today, can you imagine how much better it would be if they had kahanist pilots at the helm of these jets? I hope to see the day.
-
Tzvi: "...stop praying and fight- that is the Halacha by ALL. Its a matter of Pikuah Nefesh. (I can also bring examples of why)"
Great!
By all means, please elaborate on this, and please define "Pikuah Nefesh" for the forum members unfamiliar with the translation.
-
Pikuach nefesh means that when a life is in danger, you can violate certain jewish laws to save the persons life. eg.. an jewish medic in israel driving on shabbos to save a life.
-
Just thought of another pertinent question:
Does the Air Force have restrictions on beards worn by the observant, due to the flight suits, helmets, visors, oxygen, headgear required by fighter jet pilots?
I'm "digging" for any possible rational reasons for which the Air Force might decide that observant recruits are problematic.
-
Just thought of another pertinent question:
Does the Air Force have restrictions on beards worn by the observant, due to the flight suits, helmets, visors, oxygen, headgear required by fighter jet pilots?
I'm "digging" for any possible rational reasons for which the Air Force might decide that observant recruits are problematic.
The reason they ban religious jews is because they are worried that they will be right wing and actually use the planes to kill some muslims. That is their main concern in all honesty.
-
Also because since the pilot is the one that everyone looks up to, they dont want someone who is Religious to be shown as the big hero, according to them, G-d forbid for Jews to watch Religious Jews as their hero's they might actually then become observent themselves, and that would then mean that they wouldn't vote for the secular any longer, we cant have that,ehh what the heck lets bring in more Russian goyim just in case someting like that happens.
-
"This people I created for Me that they may relate My Praise" (Yeshaya 43).
Like all his predecessors, Israeli Air Force chief Shkedy boasts of Israel's prowess and with typical misplaced Israeli overconfidence, without mentioning G-d, thus failing on even a minimum level Israel's very raison d'etre!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/24/60minutes/main4040294.shtml
Israeli air force crews are specially selected to be ultra-chilloni, rachmonus aleihem, poor sods.
There has never been a kippa-wearing pilot. If an israeli pilot shows signs of becoming baal teshuvah and putting on tefillin, he is immediately demoted to ground crew! Torah outreach rabbis are completely banned from cheyl avir bases!
I predict that however pathetic a failure Halutz was, Shkedy and Ashkenazi will be even worse when push comes to shove!
(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04QqcKxdR86Kj/610x.jpg)
what!!!!?????? Really?!!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( :'(
I can't believe this! This is terrible! Demoted for believing in what Eretz Yisrael stands for!? HA!!! It is pure evil, the leaders that impose these evil things!!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
-
This is bad, but in the long run this is nothing (not even 1%) of the real evils of discrimination that they have done. Systematic discrimination agains't Religious Jews in general and Sefardim in particular (actually its the trends that they have, new group every soo often, first Haredim, then Sefardim and now the "Settlers" ).
-
Tzvi, we have nothing against gentiles but I agree with you that the russian gentiles allowed into Israel are all neo nazi scum dogs who cause alot of trouble in the country. Many of the women are hookers and the men are pimps and skinheads. Its a disaster. I agree with you that they wouldn't want a religious jew to be looked up to. That is certainly one of the reasons that they dont take religious jews. I still think that the main reason is that they don't want real right wing jews who would actually try to defend jews instead of helping this muzzies.
-
This is bad, but in the long run this is nothing (not even 1%) of the real evils of discrimination that they have done. Systematic discrimination agains't Religious Jews in general and Sefaradim in particular (actually its the trends that they have, new group every soo often, first Haredim, then Sefaradim and now the "Settlers" ).
Of course what they do to the settlers and sefardim and all right wing religious jews is insane. The leftist kike scum that are in charge over there are true drek.
-
The discrimination is not just an economic injustice, its farr greater then that. I just remembered a story, which is also connected to what it says about Lavan in the Haggadah shel Pessah about how Pharoah tried killing all the male Jewish children and Lavan tried to uproot us all (even though it was his own daughters and grandchildren). The story is about how when the Yeminites came to Israel (walking threw the dessert to get their), they were greated by the secular Askenazim with the promise of work permits, and told that they would get work, but they would have to work on Shabb-t. All at first refused, but then as time went bye they weren't allowed to even go out and work on their own, they had to have permission to work, and the only way to do that was for the state to dictate where and how they would work, and that included working on the Holy Shabb-t. As most Jews know, if their is a situation where one's life in in danger (Pikuah Nefesh), one can break Shabb-t laws, and in this case it meant to go out and work on Shabb-t in order not to starve from death.
The sad part from is that this "lavan" created amoung many other of their programs expecially school so-called education, the attitude that breaking Shabb-t is okay, and not a big deal. They inserted in the minds of the first generations kids that they parents worked on Shabb-t so its not a problem for them to do what they feel like (which in Israeli society means going out to those evil bars and clubs). They tried uprooting Jews by being "lavan" which also translates as White or pure, giving Jews the false claim that its the almighty IDF, generals and government that is their protection and savior, but G-d's plans are the opposite, He in his fury and also mercy to teach us, sends us kids with rocks, who scream "G-d is Great" to also hint that its not the IDF that protects the nation of Israel, but on Him, and we should worship on Him and not the army or U.S.A. or anybody or anything else. (woow, how did I get to these points I dont know, but im guessing it had to be heard by someone on the forum).
-
Re: "...they ban religious jews is because they are worried that they will be right wing and actually use the planes to kill some muslims. That is their main concern in all honesty."
I would have to agree that their "concerns" are justified! O0
-
I ask this with no preconceptions; but I am curious to know if there are solid and good reasons why the Israeli Air Force might prefer nonobservant fighter pilots and backup crews.
Does the Torah not say that even those that work for you, are also to rest on Shabbat? And as such would not be allowedd to fight on Shabbat?
In the 6 Day War, did the Israeli's fight on shabbat? Or was the war already over by then?
-
I ask this with no preconceptions; but I am curious to know if there are solid and good reasons why the Israeli Air Force might prefer nonobservant fighter pilots and backup crews.
Does the Torah not say that even those that work for you, are also to rest on Shabbat? And as such would not be allowedd to fight on Shabbat?
In the 6 Day War, did the Israeli's fight on shabbat? Or was the war already over by then?
Fighting on Shabb-t is allowed, because if people do not fight on Shabb-t, it will give time for the enemy to attach, thus endangering the lives of Jews, so it is allowed, even if it is only a possibility that their will be an attack or a war might happen.
-
I ask this with no preconceptions; but I am curious to know if there are solid and good reasons why the Israeli Air Force might prefer nonobservant fighter pilots and backup crews.
Does the Torah not say that even those that work for you, are also to rest on Shabbat? And as such would not be allowedd to fight on Shabbat?
In the 6 Day War, did the Israeli's fight on shabbat? Or was the war already over by then?
Fighting on Shabbat is allowed, because if people do not fight on Shabbat, it will give time for the enemy to attach, thus endangering the lives of Jews, so it is allowed, even if it is only a possibility that their will be an attack or a war might happen.
ok, TODA.
and during the wars Yisrael fought, did hey fight on Shabbat as well?
-
I ask this with no preconceptions; but I am curious to know if there are solid and good reasons why the Israeli Air Force might prefer nonobservant fighter pilots and backup crews.
Does the Torah not say that even those that work for you, are also to rest on Shabbat? And as such would not be allowedd to fight on Shabbat?
In the 6 Day War, did the Israeli's fight on shabbat? Or was the war already over by then?
Fighting on Shabbat is allowed, because if people do not fight on Shabbat, it will give time for the enemy to attach, thus endangering the lives of Jews, so it is allowed, even if it is only a possibility that their will be an attack or a war might happen.
ok, TODA.
and during the wars Yisrael fought, did hey fight on Shabbat as well?
Of course they fought on shabbos and it is totally justified and essential. Anything goes when it comes to saving a life. That is why you can drive on shabbos if it will save even one life and a person can even eat non kosher food if it will save his life according to the torah.
-
Tzvi, we have nothing against gentiles but I agree with you that the russian gentiles allowed into Israel are all neo nazi scum dogs who cause alot of trouble in the country. Many of the women are hookers and the men are pimps and skinheads. Its a disaster. I agree with you that they wouldn't want a religious jew to be looked up to. That is certainly one of the reasons that they dont take religious jews. I still think that the main reason is that they don't want real right wing jews who would actually try to defend jews instead of helping this muzzies.
Not true at all, most are good citizens and right wing relative to israeli natives. The accusation about the woman is completely ridiculous. Most of the hookers are illegally smuggled here from the egyptian border or come as a tourist, they are not immigrants. Indeed they come mostly from the former USSR.
And finally where do you get the idea that religious jews are excluded from the IAF, it simply isn't true.
-
I ask this with no preconceptions; but I am curious to know if there are solid and good reasons why the Israeli Air Force might prefer nonobservant fighter pilots and backup crews.
Does the Torah not say that even those that work for you, are also to rest on Shabbat? And as such would not be allowedd to fight on Shabbat?
In the 6 Day War, did the Israeli's fight on shabbat? Or was the war already over by then?
Fighting on Shabbat is allowed, because if people do not fight on Shabbat, it will give time for the enemy to attach, thus endangering the lives of Jews, so it is allowed, even if it is only a possibility that their will be an attack or a war might happen.
ok, TODA.
and during the wars Yisrael fought, did hey fight on Shabbat as well?
Anything goes when it comes to saving a life.
Not 100% right. Almost everything yes, but not the 3 sins of Idol Worship, Adultry (and sex crimes), and Murder. Also not making a Hillul Hashe-m, infront of at least 10 Jewish men , and that would go for even the tinniest Rabbinic Mitva if the intent of the criminal is to purposly make you go agains't G-d's law.
-
Tzvi: "...(woow, how did I get to these points I dont know, but im guessing it had to be heard by someone on the forum)..."
Tzvi, repectfully, this is how you should spend your energies on the forum here, by educating those who want to know.
Arguing over metaphysics with others here is actually demeaning to someone with as much Torah knowledge as yourself.
I want to know these things, and I need to know these things.
Maybe somewhere along the line we can all learn something from others.