The "Wipe Israel Off The Map" Hoax
What Ahmadinejad really said and why this broken record is just another ad slogan for war
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Friday, January 26, 2007
Barely a day goes by that one can avoid reading or hearing yet another Israeli, American or British warhawk regurgitate the broken record that Iran's President Ahmadinejad threatened to "wipe Israel off the map," framed in the ridiculous context that Israelis are being targeted for a second holocaust. This baseless rallying call for conflict holds about as much credibility as Dick Cheney's assertion that Saddam Hussein was planning to light up American skies with mushroom clouds.
Today it's the turn of would-be future British Prime Minister David Cameron, leader of the Conservative Party, who repeated the "wipe Israel off he map" fraud in a speech at the World Economic Forum in Davos, using it to qualify his refusal to rule out a military strike on Iran under a Tory government.
Did Ahmadinejad really threaten to "wipe Israel off the map" or is this phrase just another jingoistic brand slogan for selling the next war in the Middle East?
The devil is in the detail, wiping Israel off the map suggests a physical genocidal assault, a literal population relocation or elimination akin to what the Nazis did. According to numerous different translations, Ahmadinejad never used the word "map," instead his statement was in the context of time and applied to the Zionist regime occupying Jerusalem. Ahmadinejad was expressing his future hope that the Zionist regime in Israel would fall, not that Iran was going to physically annex the country and its population.
To claim Ahmadinejad has issued a rallying cry to ethnically cleanse Israel is akin to saying that Churchill wanted to murder all Germans when he stated his desire to crush the Nazis. This is about the demise of a corrupt occupying power, not the deaths of millions of innocent people.
The Guardian's Jonathan Steele cites four different translations, from professors to the BBC to the New York Times and even pro-Israel news outlets, in none of those translations is the word "map" used. The closest translation to what the Iranian President actually said is, "The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time," or a narrow relative thereof. In no version is the word "map" used or a context of mass genocide or hostile military action even hinted at.
The acceptance of the word "map" seemingly originated with the New York Times, who later had to back away from this false translation. The BBC also wrongly used the word and, in comments to Steele, later accepted their mistake but refused to issue a retraction.
"The fact that he compared his desired option - the elimination of "the regime occupying Jerusalem" - with the fall of the Shah's regime in Iran makes it crystal clear that he is talking about regime change, not the end of Israel. As a schoolboy opponent of the Shah in the 1970's he surely did not favor Iran's removal from the page of time. He just wanted the Shah out," writes Steele.
"It's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote, writes Arash Norouzi, "they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution. Although he quoted Khomeini to affirm his own position on Zionism, the actual words belong to Khomeini and not Ahmadinejad. Thus, Ahmadinejad has essentially been credited (or blamed) for a quote that is not only unoriginal, but represents a viewpoint already in place well before he ever took office."
Professor Juan Cole concurs, arguing, "Now, some might say, "So he didn't say, 'wipe off the map,' he said 'erase from the page.' What's the difference? Anyway he's saying he wants to get rid of Israel. Ahmadinejad was not making a threat, he was quoting a saying of Khomeini and urging that pro-Palestinian activists in Iran not give up hope -- that the occupation of Jerusalem was no more a continued inevitability than had been the hegemony of the Shah's government. Whatever this quotation from a decades-old speech of Khomeini may have meant, Ahmadinejad did not say that 'Israel must be wiped off the map' with the implication that phrase has of Nazi-style extermination of a people. He said that the occupation regime over Jerusalem must be erased from the page of time."
Let's consider for a moment that Ahmadinejad really does wish to initiate a nuclear war on Israel, is this feasible? It would be like Paris Hilton picking a fight with Mike Tyson. The CIA's own estimates put Iran five to ten years away from being able to produce one nuclear bomb even if they were in the planning stages now, which is highly unlikely given that international inspectors have found no evidence of such a program and CIA satellite imagery also shows no proof of nuclear arms. Contrast this to an Israeli arsenal of anything up to 200 launch ready nukes allied to the might of the U.S. which has nearly 6,000 active warheads not to mention so-called "mini-nukes."
While it can be reasonably argued that Iran is seeking a nuclear weapon at some point in the future, to then claim that this means Ahmadinejad wishes to enact a second holocaust is an unfathomable leap of logic. The real reason for any nation in that region trying to acquire a nuclear weapon is for self defense, because they are surrounded by other hostile powers that already have the bomb.
Returning to the "wipe Israel off the map hoax," loathe are we to forget another of the commercial jingles concocted for hoodwinking Americans into attacking a certain other Middle Eastern country - "he used weapons of mass destruction against his own people," referring of course to Saddam Hussein's alleged role in the Halabja massacre where Iraqi Kurds were gassed. In reality, as former CIA analyst Stephen Pelletiere has revealed, Halabja came as a result of a battlefield exchange between the Iranians and the Iraqis after the Kurds had sided with the Iranians and allowed them to enter the city. According to the DIA's own report at the time, the type of gas that killed the Kurds was not used by the Iraqis but was used by the Iranians. The incident was a tragedy of war, not a directed program of genocide at the behest of Saddam Hussein.
Whenever Bush administration officials and others used Halabja as a pretext for war, the mass media routinely failed to mention the DIA report, just as they have failed to provide any balance on the real meaning of Ahmadinejad's statement, despite the fact that it is completely distorted almost every day and used as a call to arms as well as a propagandistic ploy to convince western populations that dark skinned invaders are hell-bent on their wholesale destruction.
I have heard that the KKK is supporting an Obama presidency...
muman613
I have heard that the KKK is supporting an Obama presidency...
muman613
Well you get the idea...right?
P.S. You might be spouting a myth here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/kkk.asp
Are you next going to tell us that all vegetarians are evil because Hitler was a vegetarian?
So in other words, if he has viciously anti-Semitic articles on his website, it's okay if he didn't personally write them? ::)
By the way, the name you listed is Paul Joseph Watson, not Alex Jones.
So in other words, if he has viciously anti-Semitic articles on his website, it's okay if he didn't personally write them? ::)
By the way, the name you listed is Paul Joseph Watson, not Alex Jones.
If Chaim posted on JTF an article written by Noam Chomsky, what would you think of him?
So in other words, if he has viciously anti-Semitic articles on his website, it's okay if he didn't personally write them? ::)
By the way, the name you listed is Paul Joseph Watson, not Alex Jones.
If Chaim posted on JTF an article written by Noam Chomsky, what would you think of him?
If Chaim posted Noam Chomsky article on JTF website I'd think that either Chaim took up smoking and drinking hard liqueur or Noam made a Tshuva! :)
Is that what the aluminum foil atop your head told you? :D
Umm, I'm not fighting for the goal of convincing people that Bush was in on 9/11.
I have heard that the KKK is supporting an Obama presidency...
muman613
Hmmm...
Let's see now....
A horrendous crime is committed, a crime requiring the highest level possible of financing, planning, and preparation.
In addition, the world's most advanced and most powerful defense apparatus, seemingly impregnable, is ordered to "stand down", resulting in a nation utterly defenseless.
The FBI immediately confiscates all airport and airline records, confiscates all airliner "black boxes" which record all events in air.
The government orders all planes in the country grounded until further notice, stranding thousands of American travelers, yet uses several CIA owned airliners to fly the Bin Laden Family quickly out of the United States back to Saudi Arabia, to make sure that they are unable to be interrogated.
Twenty four hours after the attack, a "Patriot Act" is presented and the hysteria and fear generated by the attacks, combined with the still "unsolved" anthrax letters being mailed ONLY to Democratic Congressmen and Senators who opposed Bush policies, are exploited to rush the bill through to ratification without any legislators being able to even read it.
This Act was already in place, prepared for presentation by a Bush Justice appointee, and conveniently removes all Constitutional Rights and liberties from American citizens.
The government removes each and every inch of crime scene evidence and sells off what it can, guaranteeing that a proper crime scene investigation of remaining evidence is impossible.
The clamor for an immediate investigation into the attacks is ignored by Bush and Cheney who refuse to allow any investigation whatsoever of the facts and culprits leading up to the crimes.
Over one full year later, Bush and Cheney agree to be questioned by the House, both refusing to take an oath to tell the truth, both refusing to be questioned unless sitting next to each other.
This most brief outline of events above seems to me "Heaven Sent" if anyone was ever interested in stoking suspicions in the citizenry, and giving birth to a fringe element "conspiracy movement".
Truly such obfuscation of justice was the greatest thing gift ever presented to Alex Jones and others who had long before 9/11 been scratching out a meager living as "professional patriots" and "survival goods radio barkers".
Alex incorrectly believes that he is not a Jew-Hater, but then again so does Patrick J. Buchanan.
Now let's read the resume of a true Conservative Republican who served under President Ronald Reagan:
*Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury during President Reagan’s first term. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal. He has held numerous academic appointments, including the William E. Simon Chair, Center for Strategic and International Studies, Georgetown University, and Senior Research Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University. He was awarded the Legion of Honor by French President Francois Mitterrand. He is the author of Supply-Side Revolution : An Insider's Account of Policymaking in Washington; Alienation and the Soviet Economy and Meltdown: Inside the Soviet Economy, and is the co-author with Lawrence M. Stratton of The Tyranny of Good Intentions : How Prosecutors and Bureaucrats Are Trampling the Constitution in the Name of Justice. Click here for Peter Brimelow’s Forbes Magazine interview with Roberts about the recent epidemic of prosecutorial misconduct.
It would appear that such a distinguished track record is certainly not that of some "kook" or "conspiracy theorist".
Why would such a gentleman still be demanding answers about the 9/11 events?
It's just so puzzling to me why a distinguished Reaganite would do such things!
*source: v-dare.com
Gentle reader, do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern Lebanon? Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear out. Israel then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing villagers. That way there is no one to come back and nothing to which to return, making it easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as Israel has been stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.
Paul Craig Roberts is either a blithering IDIOT with all those accomplishments or an ANTI-SEMITE!!!All of the "truthers" are anti-Semites.
Paul Craig Roberts is either a blithering IDIOT with all those accomplishments or an ANTI-SEMITE!!!All of the "truthers" are anti-Semites.
This creature is an acclaimed senior staff writer at Prison Planet--essentially Alex Jones' second-in-command.
Paul Craig Roberts is either a blithering IDIOT with all those accomplishments or an ANTI-SEMITE!!!All of the "truthers" are anti-Semites.
This creature is an acclaimed senior staff writer at Prison Planet--essentially Alex Jones' second-in-command.
So it is your position that me, Nik, and Massuh and Meir Cohen and anyone else who thinks Bush might have been in on it are "anti-semites"?
I just want to clarify your position.
The only person I called an anti-semite or a blithering idiot was Paul Craig Roberts.It continues to amaze me how educated and normally very intelligent posters are being taken in by crude Nazis.
I only accuse you of not doing enough research before proclaiming people like Paul Craig Roberts credible sources.
Take your own advice. Last time I checked, I hadn't made dozens of posts questioning whether Arabs committed 9/11 or questioning Chaim's new policy.
Lubab, what would Bush have to gain by helping them? Tell me.
The last thing Bush would want would be for anything to happen that makes his Saudi masters look bad. If for no other reason than that (and I don't believe there was any other reason--I don't think he gives a damn about American lives), he would have tried to stop 9/11 if he could have.
The real conspiracy, that is never discussed, is that Dubya's daddy did help El-Sayyeed Nosair (ys"vz) murder HaRav Kahane.
The FBI immediately confiscates all airport and airline records, confiscates all airliner "black boxes" which record all events in air.
The government orders all planes in the country grounded until further notice, stranding thousands of American travelers, yet uses several CIA owned airliners to fly the Bin Laden Family quickly out of the United States back to Saudi Arabia, to make sure that they are unable to be interrogated.
"Patriot Act" is presented and the hysteria and fear generated by the attacks... exploited to rush the bill through to ratification without any legislators being able to even read it.
and conveniently removes all Constitutional Rights and liberties from American citizens.
The government removes each and every inch of crime scene evidence and sells off what it can, guaranteeing that a proper crime scene investigation of remaining evidence is impossible.
It would appear that such a distinguished track record is certainly not that of some "kook" or "conspiracy theorist".
Why would such a gentleman still be demanding answers about the 9/11 events?
It's just so puzzling to me why a distinguished Reaganite would do such things!
Take your own advice. Last time I checked, I hadn't made dozens of posts questioning whether Arabs committed 9/11 or questioning Chaim's new policy.
That brings us to another important issue. Is Chaim JTF? Or is Chaim one man (a spokesman) for JTF?
If the former, it's wrong to veer from anything he says (and this is basically a dictatorship). If the latter, I have every right to question his decision.
Lubab, I will set your own theories aside for now. Can you agree, though, with the actual topic of this thread--that Prison Planet is a viciously anti-Semitic internet gas chamber?
Lubab, I will set your own theories aside for now. Can you agree, though, with the actual topic of this thread--that Prison Planet is a viciously anti-Semitic internet gas chamber?
Alex Jones is shifty and sneaky enough to leave the really nasty blood libels for his staff writers (Paul Craig Roberts, etc.), but he does host some of the most savage Jew-haters on the planet on his radio show, treating them uncritically as honored guests, and does appear on the shows of other "truther" anti-Semites, such as the Arab George Noory's show "Coast to Coast".
I also recall that he did say that the Mossad is behind 9/11 once--I can't find the link right now, but I am pretty sure that I saw that.
There are a lot of anti-semitic people there, but not all of them are such.
Remember, we here at JTF are no supporters of the Mossad either, that doesn't make us anti-semites.
People like Nik and Chamish also think the Mossad helped out with 9-11, and those are not anti-semitic people.
I won't say anything about Nik, but Chamish is so wild that more than a few people think he is under the Shabak's payroll in order to deceive and divert right-wing Jews.
I don't like the Mossad either, but it is far too busy spying on right-wing Israelis to be interested in bombing the goyim. Just think about it.
MOST 9/11 truthers don't even suspect mossad! MOST blame the US govt!On orders from or on behalf of Jews.
There are a lot of anti-semitic people there, but not all of them are such.
Remember, we here at JTF are no supporters of the Mossad either, that doesn't make us anti-semites.
People like Nik and Chamish also think the Mossad helped out with 9-11, and those are not anti-semitic people.
Whether it's antisemitic or not, IT'S INSANE!
Where is a single document, evidence or any element of proof that Mossad had anything to do with 9/11??????? THere is none!
There are a lot of anti-semitic people there, but not all of them are such.
Remember, we here at JTF are no supporters of the Mossad either, that doesn't make us anti-semites.
People like Nik and Chamish also think the Mossad helped out with 9-11, and those are not anti-semitic people.
Whether it's antisemitic or not, IT'S INSANE!
Where is a single document, evidence or any element of proof that Mossad had anything to do with 9/11??????? THere is none!
Why don't you ask them why they believe that? I'm sure they'd happily respond to you.
The way that the 9/11 truthers dream up their conclusions in complete contradiction to overwhelming evidence and fact, in the face of countless sources proving them wrong, is very much like the holocaust deniers contradicts the evidence.That's because pretty much all of the "truthers" are Holocaust-deniers.
There are a lot of anti-semitic people there, but not all of them are such.
Remember, we here at JTF are no supporters of the Mossad either, that doesn't make us anti-semites.
People like Nik and Chamish also think the Mossad helped out with 9-11, and those are not anti-semitic people.
Whether it's antisemitic or not, IT'S INSANE!
Where is a single document, evidence or any element of proof that Mossad had anything to do with 9/11??????? THere is none!
Why don't you ask them why they believe that? I'm sure they'd happily respond to you.
Lubab, please don't patronize me. I have read into this. I have read various propaganda sites and 9/11 myths. There is no case so flimsy as the mossad angle. IT HAS NO EVIDENCE. It's as if taken from a science fiction novel.
But Lubab, why are you a shill for it? You think it's so credible and believable and they 'have their reasons' why is that? Have YOU ever seen any indication or evidence that Mossad is implicated? If not, why so reactionary to defend nik and chamish about a belief in mossad doing 9/11? You seem to want to say well, if they believe it there has to be a good reason, you're just not looking at the reason or the evidence KWR. If that's so, you can make that argument about EVERY insane and incorrect theory in the world and then nothing can ever possibly be wrong as long as one person out there believes it - he has his reasons.
It's unfortunate to have to make this comparison but it's a valid one: The way that the 9/11 truthers dream up their conclusions in complete contradiction to overwhelming evidence and fact, in the face of countless sources proving them wrong, is very much like the holocaust deniers who ALSO contradict all known reality and magnify some bizarre point here and a complaint there to weave some huge story only to suit their PRECONCEIVED notion that it didn't occur. The same is done by the 9/11 truthers to fit the preconceived notion that the govt did it.
Lubab, bring every argument in the book about how evil and Jew-hating the administration is, from condi to bush to all the rest trying to carve up Israel. I don't deny that. They are sick. But you cannot then just jump to the conclusion that Well, you see, since they are so bad, they did 9/11. No, this contradicts the evidence.
There are a lot of anti-semitic people there, but not all of them are such.
Remember, we here at JTF are no supporters of the Mossad either, that doesn't make us anti-semites.
People like Nik and Chamish also think the Mossad helped out with 9-11, and those are not anti-semitic people.
Whether it's antisemitic or not, IT'S INSANE!
Where is a single document, evidence or any element of proof that Mossad had anything to do with 9/11??????? THere is none!
Why don't you ask them why they believe that? I'm sure they'd happily respond to you.
Lubab, please don't patronize me. I have read into this. I have read various propaganda sites and 9/11 myths. There is no case so flimsy as the mossad angle. IT HAS NO EVIDENCE. It's as if taken from a science fiction novel.
But Lubab, why are you a shill for it? You think it's so credible and believable and they 'have their reasons' why is that? Have YOU ever seen any indication or evidence that Mossad is implicated? If not, why so reactionary to defend nik and chamish about a belief in mossad doing 9/11? You seem to want to say well, if they believe it there has to be a good reason, you're just not looking at the reason or the evidence KWR. If that's so, you can make that argument about EVERY insane and incorrect theory in the world and then nothing can ever possibly be wrong as long as one person out there believes it - he has his reasons.
It's unfortunate to have to make this comparison but it's a valid one: The way that the 9/11 truthers dream up their conclusions in complete contradiction to overwhelming evidence and fact, in the face of countless sources proving them wrong, is very much like the holocaust deniers who ALSO contradict all known reality and magnify some bizarre point here and a complaint there to weave some huge story only to suit their PRECONCEIVED notion that it didn't occur. The same is done by the 9/11 truthers to fit the preconceived notion that the govt did it.
Lubab, bring every argument in the book about how evil and Jew-hating the administration is, from condi to bush to all the rest trying to carve up Israel. I don't deny that. They are sick. But you cannot then just jump to the conclusion that Well, you see, since they are so bad, they did 9/11. No, this contradicts the evidence.
But without getting into the details of the debate I will just say that it's a complete joke to compare this to holocoust denial.
THis is complete BS and you know it Lubab. You and a few others have been spouting this nonsense for days and IT DIDN'T STOP after Chaim made the new rule. And now you say you can't answer me but then in the very same response you present pilots for 9/11 truth and other whacko groups and push all sorts of other theories! Please be honest lubab.
I would love to discuss evidence with you but it's not allowed here. You are allowed to bash and mock my views and I can't respond with evidence.
Because there are people who know a heck of a lot more about science physics, building construction, demolition and piloting on BOTH sides of the issues.
There are a lot of anti-semitic people there, but not all of them are such.
Remember, we here at JTF are no supporters of the Mossad either, that doesn't make us anti-semites.
People like Nik and Chamish also think the Mossad helped out with 9-11, and those are not anti-semitic people.
Whether it's antisemitic or not, IT'S INSANE!
Where is a single document, evidence or any element of proof that Mossad had anything to do with 9/11??????? THere is none!
Why don't you ask them why they believe that? I'm sure they'd happily respond to you.
Lubab, please don't patronize me. I have read into this. I have read various propaganda sites and 9/11 myths. There is no case so flimsy as the mossad angle. IT HAS NO EVIDENCE. It's as if taken from a science fiction novel.
But Lubab, why are you a shill for it? You think it's so credible and believable and they 'have their reasons' why is that? Have YOU ever seen any indication or evidence that Mossad is implicated? If not, why so reactionary to defend nik and chamish about a belief in mossad doing 9/11? You seem to want to say well, if they believe it there has to be a good reason, you're just not looking at the reason or the evidence KWR. If that's so, you can make that argument about EVERY insane and incorrect theory in the world and then nothing can ever possibly be wrong as long as one person out there believes it - he has his reasons.
It's unfortunate to have to make this comparison but it's a valid one: The way that the 9/11 truthers dream up their conclusions in complete contradiction to overwhelming evidence and fact, in the face of countless sources proving them wrong, is very much like the holocaust deniers who ALSO contradict all known reality and magnify some bizarre point here and a complaint there to weave some huge story only to suit their PRECONCEIVED notion that it didn't occur. The same is done by the 9/11 truthers to fit the preconceived notion that the govt did it.
Lubab, bring every argument in the book about how evil and Jew-hating the administration is, from condi to bush to all the rest trying to carve up Israel. I don't deny that. They are sick. But you cannot then just jump to the conclusion that Well, you see, since they are so bad, they did 9/11. No, this contradicts the evidence.
There are a lot of anti-semitic people there, but not all of them are such.
Remember, we here at JTF are no supporters of the Mossad either, that doesn't make us anti-semites.
People like Nik and Chamish also think the Mossad helped out with 9-11, and those are not anti-semitic people.
Whether it's antisemitic or not, IT'S INSANE!
Where is a single document, evidence or any element of proof that Mossad had anything to do with 9/11??????? THere is none!
Why don't you ask them why they believe that? I'm sure they'd happily respond to you.
Lubab, please don't patronize me. I have read into this. I have read various propaganda sites and 9/11 myths. There is no case so flimsy as the mossad angle. IT HAS NO EVIDENCE. It's as if taken from a science fiction novel.
But Lubab, why are you a shill for it? You think it's so credible and believable and they 'have their reasons' why is that? Have YOU ever seen any indication or evidence that Mossad is implicated? If not, why so reactionary to defend nik and chamish about a belief in mossad doing 9/11? You seem to want to say well, if they believe it there has to be a good reason, you're just not looking at the reason or the evidence KWR. If that's so, you can make that argument about EVERY insane and incorrect theory in the world and then nothing can ever possibly be wrong as long as one person out there believes it - he has his reasons.
It's unfortunate to have to make this comparison but it's a valid one: The way that the 9/11 truthers dream up their conclusions in complete contradiction to overwhelming evidence and fact, in the face of countless sources proving them wrong, is very much like the holocaust deniers who ALSO contradict all known reality and magnify some bizarre point here and a complaint there to weave some huge story only to suit their PRECONCEIVED notion that it didn't occur. The same is done by the 9/11 truthers to fit the preconceived notion that the govt did it.
Lubab, bring every argument in the book about how evil and Jew-hating the administration is, from condi to bush to all the rest trying to carve up Israel. I don't deny that. They are sick. But you cannot then just jump to the conclusion that Well, you see, since they are so bad, they did 9/11. No, this contradicts the evidence.
But without getting into the details of the debate I will just say that it's a complete joke to compare this to holocoust denial.
No it isn't. WHy not respond to what I just posted? Why always refusing to answer simple questions? Typical 9/11 untruth tactic.QuoteTHis is complete BS and you know it Lubab. You and a few others have been spouting this nonsense for days and IT DIDN'T STOP after Chaim made the new rule. And now you say you can't answer me but then in the very same response you present pilots for 9/11 truth and other whacko groups and push all sorts of other theories! Please be honest lubab.
I would love to discuss evidence with you but it's not allowed here. You are allowed to bash and mock my views and I can't respond with evidence.QuoteBecause there are people who know a heck of a lot more about science physics, building construction, demolition and piloting on BOTH sides of the issues.
This is simply NOT true. None of the experts agree with the 9/11 truthers. None of the demolitionist experts agrees. It was NOT a controlled demolition. Why can't these people let it go already? Because they have a preconceived notion they will NEVER LET GO OF.
There are a lot of anti-semitic people there, but not all of them are such.
Remember, we here at JTF are no supporters of the Mossad either, that doesn't make us anti-semites.
People like Nik and Chamish also think the Mossad helped out with 9-11, and those are not anti-semitic people.
Whether it's antisemitic or not, IT'S INSANE!
Where is a single document, evidence or any element of proof that Mossad had anything to do with 9/11??????? THere is none!
Why don't you ask them why they believe that? I'm sure they'd happily respond to you.
Lubab, please don't patronize me. I have read into this. I have read various propaganda sites and 9/11 myths. There is no case so flimsy as the mossad angle. IT HAS NO EVIDENCE. It's as if taken from a science fiction novel.
But Lubab, why are you a shill for it? You think it's so credible and believable and they 'have their reasons' why is that? Have YOU ever seen any indication or evidence that Mossad is implicated? If not, why so reactionary to defend nik and chamish about a belief in mossad doing 9/11? You seem to want to say well, if they believe it there has to be a good reason, you're just not looking at the reason or the evidence KWR. If that's so, you can make that argument about EVERY insane and incorrect theory in the world and then nothing can ever possibly be wrong as long as one person out there believes it - he has his reasons.
It's unfortunate to have to make this comparison but it's a valid one: The way that the 9/11 truthers dream up their conclusions in complete contradiction to overwhelming evidence and fact, in the face of countless sources proving them wrong, is very much like the holocaust deniers who ALSO contradict all known reality and magnify some bizarre point here and a complaint there to weave some huge story only to suit their PRECONCEIVED notion that it didn't occur. The same is done by the 9/11 truthers to fit the preconceived notion that the govt did it.
Lubab, bring every argument in the book about how evil and Jew-hating the administration is, from condi to bush to all the rest trying to carve up Israel. I don't deny that. They are sick. But you cannot then just jump to the conclusion that Well, you see, since they are so bad, they did 9/11. No, this contradicts the evidence.
I'm not a shill for it. I said I thought it was far fetched. I just said to ask them. I'm sure they have more to say about it than you are leading me to believe, because I've seen these guys' writings before and they generally do have some logic to it. But you may be right...it may be a complete fairytale...I just don't take such rigid positions on issues I know nothing about.
I won't say anything about Nik, but Chamish is so wild that more than a few people think he is under the Shabak's payroll in order to deceive and divert right-wing Jews.
they were military planes flown by remote control... and on both undersides of these carriers missiles were attached and shot into each bldg. before impact by the planes...
Quotethey were military planes flown by remote control... and on both undersides of these carriers missiles were attached and shot into each bldg. before impact by the planes...
I mean really if someone believes this, what more can you say to them? This defies all logic, all evidence, all documented videotape, all common sense. What happened to the passengers of the actual plane? In on it too? THeir family members, immediate and distant relatives, in on it too? The people who guided the so-called remote controls? The thousands of others, not one person broke the silence and spilt beans? A conspiracy so large and so vast with so many involved, yet not a single break, all flawlessly hidden without even one unreliable person all the way from top to bottom. UTTER INSANITY!
It not only makes an incorrect assumption that the Bush administration did it, it also assumes that the thousands of everyday American people who are "complicit" according to this insanity are utterly evil and despicable! What an insult.
Massuh,
I believe Muck was saying that according to Nik it was these people. Muck himself doesnt believe this, if you read the next paragraph he says so.
muman613
Massuh,
I believe Muck was saying that according to Nik it was these people. Muck himself doesnt believe this, if you read the next paragraph he says so.
muman613
actually, one only needs to read the whole sentence. Massuh in his quote, removed the first 3 words which said "According to Nic". I hope that was just a really stupid mistake on his part, else it's very dishonest.
Massuh,
I believe Muck was saying that according to Nik it was these people. Muck himself doesnt believe this, if you read the next paragraph he says so.
muman613
actually, one only needs to read the whole sentence. Massuh in his quote, removed the first 3 words which said "According to Nic". I hope that was just a really stupid mistake on his part, else it's very dishonest.
He's trying to point out what's been done to me and Nik and Massuh in the past. In this very thread you can readily find examples of me and Nik being taken out of context and misrepresented for the purpose of character assasination. Nobody seemed to complain there so Massuh returned the favor.
It's not a one way street folks.
IF YOU REALLY FEEL THIS WAY ABOUT JTF AND THE JTF MEMBERSHIP, MUCKDEFUSLIMS, YOU SHOULD GO TO PRISON PLANETHow disingenuous can you be? You are the one who is constantly touting Prison Planet around here.
Massuh,
I believe Muck was saying that according to Nik it was these people. Muck himself doesnt believe this, if you read the next paragraph he says so.
muman613
actually, one only needs to read the whole sentence. Massuh in his quote, removed the first 3 words which said "According to Nic". I hope that was just a really stupid mistake on his part, else it's very dishonest.
He's trying to point out what's been done to me and Nik and Massuh in the past. In this very thread you can readily find examples of me and Nik being taken out of context and misrepresented for the purpose of character assasination. Nobody seemed to complain there so Massuh returned the favor.
It's not a one way street folks.
Massuh,
I believe Muck was saying that according to Nik it was these people. Muck himself doesnt believe this, if you read the next paragraph he says so.
muman613
actually, one only needs to read the whole sentence. Massuh in his quote, removed the first 3 words which said "According to Nic". I hope that was just a really stupid mistake on his part, else it's very dishonest.
He's trying to point out what's been done to me and Nik and Massuh in the past. In this very thread you can readily find examples of me and Nik being taken out of context and misrepresented for the purpose of character assasination. Nobody seemed to complain there so Massuh returned the favor.
It's not a one way street folks.
Poppycock. What a bunch of bullshiite. Massuh just flew off the handle without reading or comprehending my entire post or what I've posted throughout this entire thread. That will happen on occassion and I don't think Massuh did it intentionally.
As far as what nik has said being 'taken out of context', that's also a load of horsecrap. Nik's quotes in my posts are copied and pasted exactly as they appeared. There's not a single thing taken out of context.
Lubab, nice try to portray yourself and nik as the wronged, character assassinated, victims. As is evident to anyone with a brain, nik is clearly out of his mind. Just read the exact quotes from nik I've posted within this thread.
Lubab, you opened up this whole can of worms with your 'nagging questions' thread. You've been operating under the guise of 'playing devil's advocate', when in fact you've believed and continue to believe that Bush willingly participated in some sort of 9/11 conspiracy. You're been disingenous throughout this whole affair.
You've been called out by me for your failure to denounce nik's insane diatribes (such as the ones I've copied and pasted in this thread). You've failed to do so.
So either you believe the crap nik is posting or don't feel any need to rebuke nik or disassociate yourself from nik's insanity. And that's not 'character assassination, that's just the facts. So put down your violin, and stop looking for sympathy as if you've been wronged in some way. You haven't been wronged, but you have provided a disservice to this forum with your abysmal, disingenous performance as of late.
By the way Lubab, unless you've privately spoken to Massuh and he's personally told you that he intentionally misrepresented my post as a way of 'returning the favor' for supposedly 'character assassinating' you and nik, then you have absolutely no right to put words in his mouth. So unless you know for a fact that Massuh intentionally did this, you need to shut the hell up.
MUCKDEFUSLIMS,
EVERYONE HERE ON THE FORUM IS DISGUSTED WITH YOUR NON-STOP INSULTING PRESIDENT BUSH AND VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY, NOT TO MENTION YOU SEEM TO THINK THAT SECRETARY OF STATE RICE IS A MEMBER OF AN INFERIOR RACE.
WHY IT IS THAT YOU YOURSELF HAVEN'T VOLUNTEERED FOR DUTY IN BAGHDAD OR KABUL, AFGHANISTAN, IS MORE THAN SELF-EVIDENT.
JUST BECAUSE THERE ARE ALWAYS THOSE ON THE FORUM LIKE YOU WHO CALL CHENEY A CHICKEN HAWK, YET OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE ONLY PROJECTING YOURSELF ON TO THE BRAVEST MAN WHO SAVED IRAQ!
VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY IS ALSO KNOWN AS A CHARITABLE CHRISTIAN, AND FOR YOU TO DISPARAGE HIM WITH CRUDE COMMENTS AND THE LIKE DON'T HELP MATTERS HERE ON THE JTF FORUM...WHERE THOSE OF US WHO CARE ARE MAKING AN EFFORT TO BUILD A TRUE MASS MOVEMENT OF RIGHTEOUS JEWS AND CHRISTIANS!
SO, WHY, WE ALL HERE WANT TO KNOW, ARE YOU DELIBERATELY SABOTAGING ALL THE WORK CHAIM BEN PESACH IS DOING FOR US?
YOUR BAD-MOUTHING OUR GOVERNMENT AND OUR SOLDIERS IN HARM'S WAY AREN'T NEEDED AND CERTAINLY AREN'T NECESSARY.
I DON'T TAKE COMMENTS OUT OF CONTEXT, I ONLY QUOTE YOU EXACTLY AS IT READS.
YOU DARE TO POST THINGS LIKE THIS ON A JEWISH FORUM:
"Poppycock. What a bunch of bullshiite."---QUOTED VERBATIM FROM MUCK DEFUSLIMS!
AND, MUCK DEFUSLIMS, TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY, YOU GO EVEN FURTHER AND STATE THE FOLLOWING OBSCENITY:
"the credibility of the entire JTF movement is in serious doubt."
IF YOU REALLY FEEL THIS WAY ABOUT JTF AND THE JTF MEMBERSHIP, MUCKDEFUSLIMS, YOU SHOULD GO TO PRISON PLANET OR StørmFrønt OR WHEREVER SUITS YOUR AGENDA!
BECAUSE WE HERE AT JTF LOVE AMERICA! DO YOU HEAR ME? WE LOVE AMERICA, AND WE DON'T NEED PEOPLE WHO HATE BIBLE-BELIEVERS!