JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks on October 07, 2008, 06:19:01 AM
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Everybody,
Chaim differs with me on the issue of Debbie Schlussel as a human being--which is fine. I don't need Chaim to agree with me 100% of the time, and he doesn't require that of me either. However, I'd like to take this time and opportunity to do a very simple poll, one that I think is pretty cut and dry so far as Torah/rabbinical teaching is concerned.
Is Debbie Schlussel, who constantly posts that Sarah Palin is a horrible mother, sinning by choosing not to be a mother at all?* Is it inconsistent for someone who bills herself as a pro-family conservative and a right-wing Jew (indeed, someone outraged at Bristol Palin's mistakes) to be anti-family as far as her own life is concerned?
*--Personally I don't have a problem with anyone's choice to have or not have kids, so long as no murder is involved, but Judaism begs to differ on the issue of intentional childlessness.
Chaimfan.
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Masha and Scriabin, I'd especially like to see your contributions.
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Technically...and I want a religious Jew here to correct me if I'm wrong..."Pur Uru Vu" was a commandment for men and not women. That means that men are only required to be fruitful and multiply, and not necessarily women also.
I know I know..just like I did, a lot of you are going to scream "That's blasphemy!" But it's not. If it were a commandment for women as much if it were for a man, then it would entitle a man to rape women because he would be forcing the woman to follow that commandment, Gd forbid. Rather, the commandment was instituted in this way so that a man would romance and convince a woman and love her tenderly so that she love him back and then they would be fruitful and multiply.
Debbie Schlussel just needs a Jewish man that can get her soft spot...Sweep her off her feet..and wake her up.
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How do you know she's intentionally unmarried ?
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CF, we are all sinners.
Are you married? Do you have children?
No offense, I know today it is really difficult to find a good girl. Floosies are there a lot, but those with even a basic level of righteousness are rare. The situation is on men's side not better.
I am shure in the Jewish world it is today the same. So give her the benefit of the doubt.
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*--Personally I don't have a problem with anyone's choice to have or not have kids, so long as no murder is involved, but Judaism begs to differ.
Chaimfan.
C.F., you make it sound like Judaism condones murder. So I think you should rephrase your comment.
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Actually, in Judaism the commandment to have children is incumbent upon the man not the woman.
I think that Jewish women should get married and have children to continue our national existence, but I wouldn't call her a sinner just for that.
Just Hellenized and selfish.
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Lisa, you know what I meant.
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I didn't vote due to the lack of voting options. Like pheasant said we are all sinners but that doesn't mean every sinner is hopelessly evil. I also think it is completely wrong to attack Schlussel or anyone for that matter based on personal matters such as martial status and even sexual prefs. If Ms Schlussel had indeed attacked pain's personal life and choices than as wrong as it is it doesn't mean you should descend to the same low level.
One last remark- I think many Jewish women are completely at odds with Sarah Palin's model for a family.
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Still, C.F., you should change it so everyone is clear here.
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Done.
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One last remark- I think many Jewish women are completely at odds with Sarah Palin's model for a family.
If you mean secular Jews, then that much is obvious. Secular, leftist Jews have very small families (or none at all) and divorce after ten years or so.
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What kind of question is this. No one is without sin. But she's not a bad person. There are many good people and I think she is one of them. I would judge her favorably. In turn, I hope Hashem will judge me favorably.
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My point was the hypocrisy of her attacks on Gov. Palin.
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What kind of question is this.
It's a strawman question.
The question pre-supposes that Schlussel is intentionally unmarried.
Maybe she just hasn't met the right person to marry yet, or the circumstances haven't been right for her to get married.
Maybe she's chosen not to have children out of wedlock.
Would it be right to ask if Chaim is a sinner for not being married or having children ? Of course not.
Chaim has often stated he wishes he was married and could bring children into the world.
For all we know, Schlussel might feel the same way.
Has Schlussel publically stated she's opposed to marriage and having children ? If not, the question doesn't really deserve consideration.
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Being social is very hard for me so I probably won't have kids either. I don't think God's going to send me to hell for it.
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Being social is very hard for me so I probably won't have kids either. I don't think G-d's going to send me to hell for it.
I don't get. SO many lovely women on this forum who can't find a decent guy?! That's an awful way to think!! You allow those beasts have all the kids they want and none of you women even bother looking for a man and have a single child!!!! If anything..all of us should be doing the opposite...Find a spouse, get married and have tons of kids!!!!!
WAKE UP!!!
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Being social is very hard for me so I probably won't have kids either. I don't think G-d's going to send me to hell for it.
I don't get. SO many lovely women on this forum who can't find a decent guy?! That's an awful way to think!! You allow those beasts have all the kids they want and none of you women even bother looking for a man and have a single child!!!! If anything..all of us should be doing the opposite...Find a spouse, get married and have tons of kids!!!!!
WAKE UP!!!
Dr. Dan I do want conservatives to have more kids, and I think it is important to try to overcome the demographic crisis in America. However you can't really tell an individual person what they should do, especially if you don't know much about them.
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Being social is very hard for me so I probably won't have kids either. I don't think G-d's going to send me to hell for it.
I don't get. SO many lovely women on this forum who can't find a decent guy?! That's an awful way to think!! You allow those beasts have all the kids they want and none of you women even bother looking for a man and have a single child!!!! If anything..all of us should be doing the opposite...Find a spouse, get married and have tons of kids!!!!!
WAKE UP!!!
Dr. Dan I do want conservatives to have more kids, and I think it is important to try to overcome the demographic crisis in America. However you can't really tell an individual person what they should do, especially if you don't know much about them.
but aren't we telling people what to do on this forum even though we might not know much about them?
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This is a silly argument. Although I would strongly encourage everyone to be responsible parents at some point in their life... no one would believe that someone is a sinner for not being a mother.
I know several females who deeply regret never having kids, but it was just the circumstances.