JTF.ORG Forum
Save Western Civilization => Save Serbia => Topic started by: Djape on October 10, 2008, 05:51:55 AM
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What the hell is going on?
How can this be happening?
To support this Terrorist Muslim entity is a stab in the heart, and a deep betrayal by our Slavic, Orthodox brothers.
And all this done just a day after the UN approved the case to the ICJ!
There is no honor or unity amongst the Serbs or the Slavs.
We have been reduced to an international laughing stock
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I couldn't believe when I read!! This is unbelieveble!
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Serbian-Australian
Thank you for the information...
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What is happening in our world?
A country, Serbia, has 20% of its territory violently stolen from itself.
This theft is committed by known terrorists who now call themselves a "legitimate" state!!
What has happened to world order, international law??
What about Republic of Serbian Krajina, and Republika Srpska?
States stealing land off each other. This leads to internal terrorism (Israel, Northern Ireland).
This world is finished.
Lets all look forward to international anarchy!!!
Shame on you Montenegro.
The timing is particularly cowardly.
This is the death nail of that "special" , historic link between yourselves and Serbia!! :'( >:(
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Milo Djukanovic have trial in Italy for cigarette illegal import so to save his a.. he made this decision.Do not blame Mountaineering's for this because probably 85% would say NO to Kosovo independence.There is gonna be today big protest to make government put this on ballet so people can vote on it but i doubt they gonna be able to do anything because government is so corrupted.You all know that there where no new recognition by others countries so this is one of the way of US to say :"Look their neighbors has recognized it why wont you to (name of the country)".
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After the recognition,Italy immediately withdrawn the charges against prime minister Milo Djukanovic.
Interesting thing is that the Montenegro's Government is justifying this as it is the "EU integration condition",which is a lie.
Montenegro's ambassador got kicked out of Serbia yesterday.
Montenegro and FYR Macedonia are NATO puppets.
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Do you know what Djukanovic is?
Not only is he a national "izdajnik" [traitor] to his people but he is also a common thug and criminal reminiscent of the typical dark sunglasses and black-suit wearing mafia mobster. Apart from cigarette smuggling, money laundering, racketeering and fraud, this petty criminal is also involved in the most DISGUSTING and VILE trade of them all (apart from Serbian and R?ussian bodily organ trafficking by the Albanians)...
WHITE EUROPEAN CAUCASIAN UNDERAGE FEMALE SEX SLAVERY and HUMAN TRAFFICKING.
This is why he and his US, NATO/EU partners pushed for Montenegro to break away from Serbia and become "independent" (quite a misnomer actually - Montenegro is very dependent on the EU and NATO states in reality)
Type this into Google:
Djukanovic sex prostitution slavery trafficking
Here is the first newspaper that comes up (it's from our friends down under in Australia):
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23918096-25132,00.html
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JOIN NATO & DISSECT HUMAN BEINGS FOR FUN & PROFIT
Bodies of Kosovo Serbs whose vital organs were extracted for sale were thrown into the shaft of a deserted mine “Deva” in Albania, on the border with Serbia, Press Online reports.
According to the Serbian media, remains of several hundred Kosovo Serbs whose organs were first taken out, and who are still listed as missing, were thrown into the mineshaft in northern Albania, on the border with Serbia.
Albanian KLA (UCK) terrorists have moved the remains of the killed Serbs to Deva Mine from the first mass grave they were buried in, near Djakovica. Serbian Office of the War Crimes Prosecutor has confirmed they have evidence at least one truck was used to transport some 70 bodies to northern Albania, where the remains of the victims were dumped into a deserted mineshaft.
War crimes prosecutor Vladimir Vukcevic told media he will soon go to Albania, where he is expected to meet with the Albanian state prosecutor regarding the investigation Serbia launched in March about the kidnappings of Serbs and other non-Albanians in Kosovo and Metohija province, and harvesting their organs for sale. Note this is admitted to be purely in response to the Serbian investigation. No attempt wahtsoever for the NATO funded "court" to actually prosecute the murderers on its own.
“We have learned by a mere coincidence that Deva Mine is most probably one of the biggest Serb graves in the region. Prosecutor Vukcevic and his team are going to Tirana at the start of October. We expect Albanians will enable us to verify all the information we have gathered during the investigation. It is very important that they allow us to visit all the locations suspected to have been used as concentration camps where Serbs kidnapped from Kosovo-Metohija were being held.
Countless people were tortured in those camps, that is where their vital organs were being extracted for sale in the West, after which they were being killed and thrown into the mass graves. Some of those locations [in Albania] are in the region of Tropoje, Kukes, Bajram Curri and Deva Mine,” Serbia’s State Prosecution Office said.
Russian State Prosecution Launch Their Own Investigation
In the meantime, Russian Federation has also opened an investigation about the organ trade Albanian KLA was conducting in Serbian Kosovo province and neighboring Albania since, according to the reports, Russian women were also among the kidnapped victims used for organ harvesting by the KLA terrorists.
Russia’s Central Investigative Committee, a department of the Russian Federal Prosecution, had started verifying information gathered about the KLA kidnappings and murders of the Russian citizens in the period between 1999-2003. They are also verifying testimony by the Hague’s former chief prosecutor Carla Del Ponte, about some 300 Kosovo Serbs KLA had kidnapped and transported to Albania in 1999, to harvest their vital organs for sale.
Carla Del Ponte wrote in her book Russian women, tricked by the Albanian mafia to come to Serbian province immediately after the war, as NATO troops marched in following the bombardment, were also in that group of 300 mostly Kosovo-Metohija Serbs. Officially NATO had undertaken to disarm the KLA as part of the occupation agreement. Instead they, quite deliberately provided them with police uniforms & more weapons & sent them out to commit genocide.
One of the influential Russian newspapers recently reported that Albanian mafia had used in this horrific way and killed at least 500 people, 50 of whom were Russian citizens.
Investigation about the organ trade atrocities was opened in Serbia as soon as Carla Del Ponte’s book “The Hunt: Me and War Criminals” was published. In the book, Del Ponte testified that Kosovo Albanians have kidnapped and transported some 300 Kosovo-Metohija residents, mostly Serbs, to northern Albania after June 12, 1999, when NATO troops were deployed in Serbian province.
According to De Ponte, kidnapped victims were held in storage depots and similar facilities in northern Albanian towns, such as Kukes and Tropoje. Young and healthy prisoners were regularly fed and were spared beatings and torture prior to being moved to places where their vital organs were extracted, like the basement of the yellow house near the town of Burrel, recently visited by the German Spiegel reporters.
After their vital organs were removed, the victims were killed, while the harvested organs were transported to the West, for rich patients needing transplants, via a smaller airport near Tirana.
Hashim Thaci Earned 4 Million off the Serb Vital Organs
Hague tribunal witness K-144, who personally took part in these atrocities against [Serbs], told investigators the sale of organs of the kidnapped victims went through Italy, that it was conducted under direct command of the terrorist KLA our police and also that the Albanian state leadership was aware of these atrocities and allowed the crimes to be committed on their territory, silently tolerating them.
Eyewitness K-144 testified that in the group he was involved with, at least 300 kidneys and more than 100 of other vital organs of the imprisoned Serbs were sold. According to his testimony, the victims were being killed afterward and buried in the mass graves. K-144 claims that present Kosovo province “prime minister” Hashim Thaci, former KLA leader, had earned at least 4 million German Marks from the sale of the Serb organs.
Czech Social Democrats Seek UN Investigation
This testimony prompted former Czech Prime Minister Jirzi Paroubek to urge the Czech government to request the UN investigation of the macabre chain of Albanian crimes, which would also determine whether the current leader of Kosovo Albanians, Hashim Thaci, had profited off the organs extracted from Kosovo Serbs.
Leader of the Czech Social Democratic Party Paroubek yesterday requested from Czech Foreign Minister Karel Schwarzenberg to seek investigation about the involvement of the Kosovo Albanian leaders in the sale of organs of the kidnapped Serbs and other non-Albanians.
“I am deeply disturbed by this information”, Paroubek said yesterday at the press conference, reminding that the indications of such atrocious crimes have contributed to Czech Social Democrats’ categorical refusal to recognize imposed independence of the Serbian province.
“At that time [of Czech recognition] the content of book by the Hague’s chief prosecutor Carla Del Ponte was known, suggesting that some of the present Kosovo officials, as former representatives of the terrorist organization of ‘Kosovo Liberation Army’, took part in the murders of the Serbian prisoners”, Paroubek said, assessing the decision about investigating this atrocity, recently described by the Swiss Tages-Anzeiger, should be reached at the current UN General Assembly session.
[Comment below by Neil Craig of "A Place To Stand" blog]
Someone on the Scotsman site (back before they censored my participation) said that this could not possibly have happened because if it had it would be produce front page banner headlines in all our newspapers. That would, of course, only be the case if those newspapers were, at least to some limited degree honest & staffed by decent human beings. Of course if the entirety of our media were controlled by a less noble version of the sort of people who ran the newspapers for Mr Goebbels one would understand it being wholly censored.
At least under Goebbels they had the excuse that they would be sent to concentration camps whereas our journalists, personally accessories in genocide, child sex slavery & dissection of living people to steal organs, though every one of them is [an accessory], need fear only having to work for a living if they told the truth.
posted by neil craig @ 3:36 PM
http://a-place-to-stand.blogspot.com/2008/10/bodies-of-kosovo-serbs-whose-vital.html
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The Eurocommunists are performing treachery with their own regions, peoples and Serbia. They are to ultimately establish an axis with Arabia which may have lever at criminalized Kosovo and Albania.
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"Montenegrins" and "Macedonians" are all SERBS...
Let's see,
- Same religion? Check
- Same language? Check
- Live in the same region? Check
- Have the same traditions and names? Check
What's the dividing factor? Invisible political lines that show up on a map but are nowhere to be found in real life?
Both of those countries are backstabbing, traitorous piles of bull dung and I will be happy when Montenegro is bought up by the Russians (they already control almost half of Montenegro's entire infrastructure/economy..) and when Macedonia is handed over to the Albanians and Bulgarians (Albanians make up 25% of Macedonia, all on the western side...Bulgarians have argued that the east side is theirs).
It will serve them right.
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"Montenegrins" and "Macedonians" are all SERBS...
Let's see,
- Same religion? Check
- Same language? Check
- Live in the same region? Check
- Have the same traditions and names? Check
What's the dividing factor? Invisible political lines that show up on a map but are nowhere to be found in real life?
Both of those countries are backstabbing, traitorous piles of bull dung and I will be happy when Montenegro is bought up by the Russians (they already control almost half of Montenegro's entire infrastructure/economy..) and when Macedonia is handed over to the Albanians and Bulgarians (Albanians make up 25% of Macedonia, all on the western side...Bulgarians have argued that the east side is theirs).
It will serve them right.
Agreed
Which makes their recognition all the more unbelievable.
If we cant rely on our own people, what hope is there for us?
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http://www.kosovocompromise.com/cms/item/latestnews/en.html?view=story&id=1431§ionId=1
Montenegrin opposition parties are staging rallies against the recognition of Kosovo’s unilateral independence by the Montenegro government last week.
Several spontaneous gatherings occurred during the weekend, but a large, organized rally is planned for Monday evening in the capital Podgorica.
The opposition says it will never recognize the government's move and will fight for its reversal.
"This will be an opportunity for the rallying of all those who are concerned about the future of Montenegro and who will not allow themselves to be remembered as the generation that must be ashamed because their government adopted the decision to recognize Kosovo," the leader of the Socialist People's Party, Srdjan Milic, said.
Milic stressed that the rally will be neither anti-Albanian nor pro-Serbian, but "a rally for the future of our children, for an attempt to remain human and to preserve what has been the most powerful weapon of Montenegro throughout the centuries - honor."
According to Milic, the opposition will demand from the government to annul the decision on the recognition of Kosovo, or to enable a fair and democratic declaration of opinion by the citizens - as more than 80 percent of them do not support such a decision, or to call early parliamentary elections.
Lets hope this protest has a large amount of people, and knocks some sense to the corrupt government of Djukanovic!
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Now it should become an open fact that Kosovo Mouselem and Albanians were evil monster traders of the live human organs. Shame that they are supported by EuroCommunists.
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Just wait when Russia recognizes Kosovo, then what will you guys do. ??? Sorry for the bad news though, I give my condolences..
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Just wait when Russia recognizes Kosovo, then what will you guys do. ??? Sorry for the bad news though, I give my condolences..
Why do you start this conversation again? >:(
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Just wait when Russia recognizes Kosovo, then what will you guys do. ??? Sorry for the bad news though, I give my condolences..
Why do you start this conversation again? >:(
Sorry, my apologies.. I was just mentioning that people you thought you could trust, in reality, you cannot really trust. As some other Serbian members mentioned, Slav unity is in trouble. Remember that real Jews will always support Serbia's sovereignty. I was looking at a map today and was shocked at how Albanians could make claim to a land engulfed by Serbia. Everybody cuts each other's throat in this world and true friends are not easy to find. In Our Tanach, we have a teaching that says: "Every Brother is a Deceiver, Every Friend a Liar". Not easy to trust people, when your enemies can come from your own house.
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"Just wait when Russia recognizes Kosovo, then what will you guys do."
And what will Israelis do if McCain becomes president and appoints James Baker as his "peace process" specialist for Israel and insists on Israel withdrawing to the 1967 armistice lines? McCain said this would be the policy of his administration if he gets elected then lied about it later when confronted over it.So yes you are right brother AryehYehudah, I agree with you 100% when you say "people you thought you could trust, in reality, you cannot really trust."
Israeli Reporter Challenges McCain To Polygraph Test
Amir Oren, a credible journalist from the Israeli newspaper HaAretz, on May 1, 2006, in which Mr. McCain declared that his administration “would send “the smartest guy I know” to the Middle East …. “Brent Scowcroft, or Jim Baker though I know that you in Israel don’t like Baker.”
Mr. McCain added “I would expect concessions and sacrifices by both sides.”
When Mr. Oren asked Mr. McCain if that meant a “movement toward the June 4, 1967 armistice lines, with minor modifications? McCain nodded in the affirmative.”
The senator repeated this week what he said to the New Republic which was that "in the course of that brief, off-the-cuff conversation, I never discussed settlement blocs, a total withdrawal, or anything of the sort."
Reached at his desk in Tel Aviv, Oren said that McCain is "not telling the truth", and that he would gladly invite him to a polygraph to see who is telling the truth. He said the Republican frontrunner indeed recommended Baker and Scowcroft as potential candidates to deal with the Middle East, and that he clearly answered in the affirmative when it came to McCain's expectations of Israel, and how it should relate to further withdrawals.
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/12622.htm
http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=140
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"Just wait when Russia recognizes Kosovo, then what will you guys do."
And what will Israelis do if McCain becomes president and appoints James Baker as his "peace process" specialist for Israel and insists on Israel withdrawing to the 1967 armistice lines? McCain said this would be the policy of his administration if he gets elected then lied about it later when confronted over it.So yes you are right brother AryehYehudah, I agree with you 100% when you say "people you thought you could trust, in reality, you cannot really trust."
Exactly!! I only love (and I don't love him at all) MCCain, because he is not a black communist muslim nazi like Obama. The lesser of the two evils. However, McCain also will be a thorn in the side to us Jews just like all the other traitors in our government. I throw my loyalty to "real" conservative Americans, who are not great in number, as they were the people to help us Jews in grave time of suffering, when the rest of the world was trying to eradicate us from the globe. I am sad to say that America, like Russia is a new age, "closet" communist country being overtaken by left-wing radicals. I bet you after the Obamanation gets in power, you will see a big smiley picture of Obama-Chavez-Ahmedinejab-Putin all with an arm aruond each other smiling waving at the camera. McCain on the other hand will continue his pursuit of the "Two-State Solution" and the try to nurture a slow death of the Jewish State. Of course, James "F--k the Jews" Baker, couldn't be any worse than the arab-loving, black supremacist Conwoman Rice. My faith is in G-d and the hearts and souls of honorable humans and the amazing works we can do to revolt against the liberal oppressors. However, I do not put my faith in any one country or leader, I know what their greater intentions are.
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"Montenegrins" and "Macedonians" are all SERBS...
Let's see,
- Same religion? Check
- Same language? Check
- Live in the same region? Check
- Have the same traditions and names? Check
What's the dividing factor? Invisible political lines that show up on a map but are nowhere to be found in real life?
Both of those countries are backstabbing, traitorous piles of bull dung and I will be happy when Montenegro is bought up by the Russians (they already control almost half of Montenegro's entire infrastructure/economy..) and when Macedonia is handed over to the Albanians and Bulgarians (Albanians make up 25% of Macedonia, all on the western side...Bulgarians have argued that the east side is theirs).
It will serve them right.
Macedonians and Serbians are like cousins, similar, but not the same. The languages and names are different. Kiril and Metodi (two Macedonian brothers) created the Cyrillic alphabet which is used by over 500 000 000 people worldwide. Macedonians, in recent years, were oppressed by Turks and Serbs, and to this day by Bulgarians and Greeks. The majority of Macedonians are either dead, or live outside of today's border of The Republic of Macedonia.
Macedonia's decision to recognize Kosovo was not because they really believe it, it is because they have a big problem with the 'name issue' with Greece. Also, Greece is denying the Macedonian minority the right to identity within Greek borders, and the Macedonians need EU and USA help to resolve this problem and stop the Greek propaganda and bullying. Lets not forget to mention the Albanian terrorists within Macedonian borders that are ready to terrorize the population at any time.
Serbians must believe that the Macedonian people are on their side, because in their heart, they believe Kosovo is Serbian. History has proven many times that it is very difficult to conquer the Serbian and Macedonian people, and history will repeat itself when the Serbs rise and get their Kosovo back, and the Macedonian lands reunite.
With love
Alexander The Great
Peace to Israel, Serbia and Macedonia.
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AlexanderTheGreat,
Sorry, but you are missing quite a lot of extremely important facts:
Macedonia, prior to it's current country status, did exist, but:
1. It happened during the time of Alexander The Great, about 2400 years ago and hasn't existed since.
2. Macedonians of the Alexander The Great time and Macedonians living today in Macedonia are two completely different ethnic groups. Macedonians living in FYRM are Slavic, not Greek; they speak Macedonian (very similiar to Serbo-Croatian) which is a slavic language, they do not speak Greek.
3. current Macedonia is known under a name Old/Southern Serbia and there are still those who, eventough are born in Macedonia, do not call it Macedonia and furthermore considered it to be insulting to be called a Macedonian, but prefer to be called Serbs.
4. Macedonians/Serbs did not have many last names ending with -ski but rather with -ic. The "ski" part of the last name was a plan by Tito (Croatian Communist Dictator) to cut up serbs and their lands as much as possible. As an example, I have met some people where one of the brothers changed his last name from "ic" to "ski" while the other brother chose not to. One's last name was Mitic while the other was Mitovski. How is that possible?
5. So-called Macedonians have same religious events such as a Patron's Day (Slava), which only Serbs and Montenegrins (who are also Serbs but call themselves otherwise) celebrate. So, how can Macedonians speak a slavic language & alphabet, have same traditions as Serbs, have almost identical first and last names? The only thing that current Macedonia has anything to do with Greece is the name Macedonia and the fact that Macedonia borders with Greece.
Whether most Macedonians are against Kosovo separation (at least the non-Albanians from FRYM), I am pretty sure that they support Serbia in that fact. However, if this Macedonian government is chosen by the Macedonian people, how come that same government is not doing what is supposed to and that is to represent the voice of the people? Sorry, but that is just not good enough. That is why we have elections...you choose those who will represent you, not those who are against you.
We all know that close to 50% of the population of Macedonia is Albanian and that had a large impact on this fact that FYRM recognized Kosovo. Just think about what this will mean when Albanians in macedonia decide to separate and join Kosovo, northern parts of Greece, and most of Montenegro into an Albanian terrorist/islamist/narcotics supercountry? Is EU worth all of that?
Albanians multiply like rats, we all know that.
You might say that albanians in FYRM would never separate.......if you think so, you are dead wrong.....I give it few years max before the s..t really hits the fan in FYRM.
Again, is the price worth it? I strongly doubt it.
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AlexanderTheGreat,
Sorry, but you are missing quite a lot of extremely important facts:
Macedonia, prior to it's current country status, did exist, but:
1. It happened during the time of Alexander The Great, about 2400 years ago and hasn't existed since.
2. Macedonians of the Alexander The Great time and Macedonians living today in Macedonia are two completely different ethnic groups. Macedonians living in FYRM are Slavic, not Greek; they speak Macedonian (very similiar to Serbo-Croatian) which is a slavic language, they do not speak Greek.
3. current Macedonia is known under a name Old/Southern Serbia and there are still those who, eventough are born in Macedonia, do not call it Macedonia and furthermore considered it to be insulting to be called a Macedonian, but prefer to be called Serbs.
4. Macedonians/Serbs did not have many last names ending with -ski but rather with -ic. The "ski" part of the last name was a plan by Tito (Croatian Communist Dictator) to cut up serbs and their lands as much as possible. As an example, I have met some people where one of the brothers changed his last name from "ic" to "ski" while the other brother chose not to. One's last name was Mitic while the other was Mitovski. How is that possible?
5. So-called Macedonians have same religious events such as a Patron's Day (Slava), which only Serbs and Montenegrins (who are also Serbs but call themselves otherwise) celebrate. So, how can Macedonians speak a slavic language & alphabet, have same traditions as Serbs, have almost identical first and last names? The only thing that current Macedonia has anything to do with Greece is the name Macedonia and the fact that Macedonia borders with Greece.
Whether most Macedonians are against Kosovo separation (at least the non-Albanians from FRYM), I am pretty sure that they support Serbia in that fact. However, if this Macedonian government is chosen by the Macedonian people, how come that same government is not doing what is supposed to and that is to represent the voice of the people? Sorry, but that is just not good enough. That is why we have elections...you choose those who will represent you, not those who are against you.
We all know that close to 50% of the population of Macedonia is Albanian and that had a large impact on this fact that FYRM recognized Kosovo. Just think about what this will mean when Albanians in macedonia decide to separate and join Kosovo, northern parts of Greece, and most of Montenegro into an Albanian terrorist/islamist/narcotics supercountry? Is EU worth all of that?
Albanians multiply like rats, we all know that.
You might say that albanians in FYRM would never separate.......if you think so, you are dead wrong.....I give it few years max before the s..t really hits the fan in FYRM.
Again, is the price worth it? I strongly doubt it.
george_jtf,
Macedonia has always existed and conquered by Romans, Byzantines, Ottomans, Serbs and nowadays Bulgarians and Modern Greeks. In 1903 Macedonians proudly fought against the Ottomans but lost a fierce battle. Under the guise of liberating the Macedonian people, Serbs, Greeks and Bulgarians sent in their armies in 1912. The Macedonians fought alongside the Serbs, Greeks and Bulgarians to help liberate the Macedonians from the Ottomans, but instead of liberating they fought one another to get the most land. In 1913 the war between Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece ended with the Treaty of Bucharest. Macedonians were protesting against the partition, but to deaf ears, they annexed Macedonia and kept it to themselves.
Greece got 35.169 sq. kilometers (51%). The Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes got 25.774 sq. kilometers (39%) and Bulgarians got 6.798 sq. kilometers (10%).
During WWII Macedonians in all parts of Macedonia took part in the anti-fascist coalition under the promise from the Atlantic charter that "all nations who take part in the struggle against fascism shall choose their own form of government and shall be afforded means of dwelling in safety within their own boundaries, and which will afford assurance that all people in all lands may live out their lives in freedom".
Yugoslavia was the only one to keep its promise and allowed the Republic of Macedonia to be formed within Yugoslavia. Greece and Bulgaria claimed Macedonians don't exist.
Macedonia is a biblical land and for 3000 years has been known as Macedonia.
FYROM is a derogatory term and should be avoided.
About the last names:
Macedonians were forced to change their last names from SKI to IC in Yugoslavia, same thing in Bulgaria and in Greece. I know this old lady that had her name changed from Petrovski to Petrovic and finally back to Petrovski after WWII. Also, Macedonia's current leader Nikola Gruevski is proof that the Greeks did the same thing. Nikos Gruios is his grandfather's name, Greeks forced his grandfather to change his name from Nikola Gruevski to Nikos Gruios (grandfather and current president have same name). There are countless Macedonians with Bulgarian and Greek last names, not many left with Serbian ones, as the Macedonians were allowed to change their names to whatever it originally was.
Regards
Alexander the Great
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Also about the Albanians, they are nowhere near 50%, closer to 25%.
If the Albanians want the North-Western part of Macedonia, in my opinion, they can have it, as long as the Macedonians get their land back from Greece, Albania and Bulgaria.
Regards
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Once again, as I mentioned earlier:
Same religion, same customs, almost identical language and alphabet, same names, .........IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GREEKS OR THE GREEK MACEDONIA!!!!!!!!!......well, at least the Eastern Orthodox Religion is almost the same as the Greek.
Maybe this will make more sense: Slavic country of Macedonia never ever ever ever existed untill 1990's. It existed as a part of Yugoslavia between end of WWII and 1990's as one of the 6 republics (again, only the name which was stolen from the greeks and which is the reason why the Greeks have a problem with it). The name of Macedonia that you are thinking of is a creation of a communist dictator Tito, one of the biggest anti-Serbs that ever existed.
I am more willing to accept that so-called Macedonians are more closely related to Bulgarians rather than the Greeks. I wouldn't not have a problem with the country being called West Bulgaria or Southern Serbia, but Macedonia as a Slavic country has NOTHING TO DO WITH GREEK MACEDONIA.
That would be the same thing if the Americans said that they speak American or Canadians saying that they speak Canadian (such a language does not exist)....I can accept little difference in a dialect, but that's all. Even the name America is an Italian name after Amerigo Vespucci. Eventhough the country was named after an Italian, majority of the people who live in US are Anglo-Saxons by heritage (English).
There are many people who come from FYRM and go to a serbian church in San Diego. Some of them are even very close friends, but they never consider themselves to be something other than Serbs. If they did, they obviously wouldn't donate to the church, have Patron Days, wouldn't be able to understand when we speak in our traditional Slavic language, wouldn't be bringing their children to sunday school and learn folklore dances.
Even the so-called Macedonian Orthodox Church is not recognized by any Orthodox Church Patriarch such as those from Serbia, Russia, Greece, Armenia, Alexandria, Bulgaria, Romania.......need I go on?
You do not have to agree with me, but at least agree with the historical facts. My family came from Krajina, but never once did I consider myself as a "krajisnik" before I consider myself as a serb. Same goes for the Serbs from Bosnia and Montenegro, Serbia, and Southern/Old Serbia (or as you call it Macedonia).
According to my friends who have family in FYRM, they tell me that there are quite a lot of Albanians living there, especially in western part of the country. To say that it is ok to give them even 1% of FYRM is defeatist. Why? Because they will not stop at 1%, 25% or even 50%. They have seen it work good in Kosovo, and not too soon into the future the same is coming for FYRM. To think otherwise is to be too passive or ignorant. Kosovo was just a warm-up for what is yet to come in FYRM, Montenegro & Northern Greece. Why? Because Albanians are seeing that they can get away with it by doing the following:
a. buying support from outside with money from heroin and slave trade;
b. having 15 children per family compared to an average non-albanian 2. In other words, 15 new muslims compared to 2 new christians.
c. using rest of the money from narcotics trade to force you (with a gun to your head) from your ancestral land and make it look as if he bought it from you fair and square.
I am yet to meet a single person from FYRM that has said that he likes Albanians. You might have, but I am yet to meet one and highly doubt that I ever will.
I also love how to hear how Albanians claim that they are descendants of Illyrians eventhough Illyrian tribe has ceased to exist since around 9th century AD due to it's ethnic and cultural integration into the Slavic tribes who began to dominate the balkans starting in mid 7th century. If anything, southern slavs are more Illyrians than the Albanians. The real Albanians, as we know them today, are from Central Asia who were brought to the Balkans during the 15th and 16th century by the Ottomans who were looking to overtake those Serbs who did not want to convert to Islam.
Now be honest: would you feel more safe living in the same country as the Serbs or in the same country as the Albanians? Don't use politics, but rather common sense and facts.........
If you are offended by me calling Macedonia FYRM (Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia), I am sorry, but facts are facts.
the whole idea of Macedonia (not the Greek but the Yugoslav) was just another way for Tito to cut and divide Serbian lands as much as possible. He did it by enlarging Croatia (which also has not existed as a country since 11th century AD), dividing Vojvodina & Kosovo from Serbia, and making Bosnia (which has not existed as an independent country since 15th century AD) look like a multiethnic state eventhough there is no such ethnic group as a Bosnian but rather a Croatian or Serbian.......oh and I am not the "Greater Serbia" ideologist as you might assume by now.
According to you, I should not consider myself an American but rather as a Californian who speaks Californian language with the "dude" dialect. LOL
Again, I apologize if you are offended, but I am just looking at the facts, not fiction.
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You are right, Macedonia has nothing to do with Greeks, they are Macedonians, the same Macedonians who conquered half the world including the Greeks.
Modern Greeks have nothing to do with the Ancient city-states, which by the way, had nothing to do with Macedonia, as Macedonia was never Greek or a Greek city-state.
There are very wise Serbian people, who understand the historical significance of the Macedonian language and Church to Serbian culture. Macedonia is the first European land that a Church was built on. The Serbian, Russian, Bulgarian and all the other Slavic tongues came from the two Macedonian brothers, Kiril i Metodi.
You may be pissed off at Macedonia's recognition of Kosovo, so am I, but that is no reason to calll them FYROMiam, Skopjian or Monkeydonian. Simply put they are all derogatory terms for a land that you should be thankful for.
I cannot convince a nationalistic Serb no more than I can convince a Modern Greek or a fashist Bulgarian.
Just remember, there are Macedonians living in Greece today, who have Greek first and last names, and consider themselves to be Macedonian and want their rights. They should be able to call themselves anything they want.
Eventually the truth will come out, Macedonia has not allowed for her name to be wiped off this planet for so many years, it will not happen now. If Macedonians need to wait another 3000 years, they will.
G-d Bless
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbpCjP5Suk4
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here is a clip for anyone who insists Macedonians don't exist.
The Hunza and Kalash peoples.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0LSoUMXHQk
and now they have returned to their home land.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO4U_OUJvTE
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Perhaps this will make more sense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(Greece)
.....or is it that the greeks are lying too?
If the people of FYRM spoke Hellenic (Greek), wrote in cyrilic alphabet more identical to Greek cyrilic, then I will immediatelly say that you are 100% right, but I don't see how that is possible.....
As far as being nationalistic, I am far from that. I am quite a moderate person who reads many books and does not base anything on what I hear on the TV, whether that tv is american or serbian. I use every resource available to get as much facts as possible. You should understand that tv is there to convince you that your government is always right, both in democratic and non-democratic countries.
Serbia (or at that time Yugoslavia) was tricked into a ceasefire in summer 1999. The terms for the ceasefire were following:
1. By begining of 2002, Serbia was supposed to be allowed to send Serbian troops to the borders between Yugoslavia (at that time) and Albania. Serbian troops were never allowed to return.
2. Kosovo is to remain part of Serbia under all circumstances (UN Resolution 1244).....we all know how that turned out.
You should worry because same is coming to FYRM whether you believe it or not and same goes for Montenegro and Northwest Greece. Ignorance only leads to more ignorance, and when it is too late, what to do then? Kosovo should have been a lesson to all of us, but apparently we are yet to learn that lesson.
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btw, I watched the videos and if anything, you proved even more that what I am saying is truth. Those Hunza people speak a language more closely related to the Greek rather than a Slavic language (which is what you speak).
Hellenic and Slavic languages are quite different. The only common thing that Hellenic and Macedonian spoken in FYRM is the similarities in the cyrilic alphabet, and not to forget that St. Cyril and Methodius were children of a mixed slavic and hellenic parents.
Slavic tribes (including those living today in FYRM) and their language did not appear in the Balkans 'till mid 7th century AD. So, how is it possible that you can claim that the Macedonians in FYRM are the same people of the time of Alexander The Great (4th century BC)? That is almost a 1000 years gap.
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You have been given the chance to be enlightened and you continue to use derogatory acronyms when referring to Macedonia, this is not good. Alexander the Great spoke Koine, an Ancient Greek language, but also maintained his native language. Nobody knows exactly what Macedonian sounded like then, since there are no documents, but the Hunza people have showed similarities in many ways, including language. You have no problem calling Macedonian southern Serbs, Greeks or Bulgarians, but if someone called Serbs Russians you would most likely be offended. You show me Wikipedia articles, but insist you read books and don't base your opinions on mainstream TV.
You have the right to take the modern Greek propaganda machine lies and worship it as truth, but when Greece recognizes Kosovo too, then you will realize the Greeks are no more your friends than the Albanians who stole Kosovo and the Albanians who the Greek government supports to start trouble in Macedonia.
Alexander The Great
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There is no reason for you to be upset just because I do not agree with your opinion. To call me a supporter of Serbian and now Greek propaganda shows that you just simply cannot admit that your facts are incorrect. In order to continue this, you really should come up with something better than "serbian/greek propaganda" excuse.
I have backed up my every claim, you are yet to do so. I can go on all day. However, if you prove to me that I was incorrect, I will be a man enough to admit it because I do not fear the truth.
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oh, and I almost forgot to mention that it is in no interest for the greeks to help the albanians. although it might be too much for you, greeks would prefer FYRM Slavs (christians) any day over albanians (muslims), ANY DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
with the greeks that I spoke with, the only problem that they have with FYRM is the name of the country. Change it to something which is not already taken and problem solved. If even then greeks still seem to have a problem with it, you will then have my full support and respect.
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I never thought I would have to post this, but you leave me no choice.
Here is DNA evidence that the Kalash and Hunza (who are from the armies of Alexander the Great) people are directly related with the Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia and not Greeks.
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOhQj_O7Q0
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So, according to you, the non-Albanians who live in Macedonia are not Slavic?
For the last and final time:
non-Albanians who live in FYRM are Slavic (not Greek Macedonian) who have migrated to the Balkans in the 7th century AD. As far as I and about 99% of the world, Alexander The Great was of Greek Macedonian descent, not Slavic descent. At the time of Alexander The Great, it is believed that Serbs at that time were living in what is today's India (which somewhat explains the darker skin and hair) and after Alexander The Great's conquest of India, he migrated the Serb tribes to the Ural Mountains (today's Ukraine) to guard the borders, which is where Serb tribes stayed untill their migration to the balkans in 7th century AD.
Those that live in Northwest part of Greece are Macedonians to whom you claim to be a descendant of. THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU CAN PROVE OTHERWISE IS TO CONVINCE ME THAT THE MACEDONIANS WHO LIVED IN TODAYS FYRM WERE HELLENIC MACEDONIANS WHO WERE INTERGRATED INTO THE SLAVIC TRIBES DURING THE 7TH AND 8TH CENTURY. OTHERWISE, HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE SAME CUSTOMS, SLAVIC LANGUAGE, AND ALMOST IDENTICAL CYRILIC ALPHABET?
Unless I am quite wrong, how else do you explain these important similarities.
you also forgot to mention that it was Greece (besides Spain) that put a veto to stop EU as a single community to recognize Kosovo as an independent country. Right now, I am just waiting for you to claim that Kosovo too was an independent country and part of today's FYRM.....and perhaps Macedonians are really descendants of Egyptians...or maybe the Aztecs too.
Just because you seem to have some sort of a personal dislike of Greeks, it does not give you the right to claim that anyone who does not agree with you to be a follower of Greek propaganda because Greek can then claim the same thing towards you.
btw, I am an American Serb, not a Greek or Greek Macedonian.
btw, Croatians claimed 5 years ago that they are descendants of the Anasazi Native Americans, who are located in New Mexico. They are yet to prove this claim and have decided to stop talking about it. Why did they do it? Obviously, to prove that they are not part of Southern Slavic tribes, which is exactly the same thing that you are trying to do.
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I have already proved with DNA evidence that the Macedonians are in fact Macedonians from Alexander's Army.
I do not dislike or hate the modern Greeks, a lot of my friends are in fact Greek.
How would you feel if someone told you that you are not Serbian, but in fact Croatian, or Russian?
That is what you are doing. You cannot tell someone else what they are or what they are not.
I responded to this thread because someone said Montenegrins and Macedonians are Serbs, that was half right, Montenegrins ARE Serbian, but Macedonians are not Serbian, Bulgarians or Greek.
Again, I have posted DNA evidence that proves what I am saying is correct. Unless you can post real solid evidence like I have, I recommend you pick up some non-Greek history books and start reading.
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I have already proved with DNA evidence that the Macedonians are in fact Macedonians from Alexander's Army.
I do not dislike or hate the modern Greeks, a lot of my friends are in fact Greek.
How would you feel if someone told you that you are not Serbian, but in fact Croatian, or Russian?
That is what you are doing. You cannot tell someone else what they are or what they are not.
I responded to this thread because someone said Montenegrins and Macedonians are Serbs, that was half right, Montenegrins ARE Serbian, but Macedonians are not Serbian, Bulgarians or Greek.
Again, I have posted DNA evidence that proves what I am saying is correct. Unless you can post real solid evidence like I have, I recommend you pick up some non-Greek history books and start reading.
Look,Macedonians that we know today are Slavs,South Slavs.Macedonians in Alexander's times were Greeks.
Today,"new" Macedonians are similar to Serbs and further more similar to Bulgarians(your language),something like a mixture of Serbs and Bulgarians.
Alexander wasn't a Slavic,and a meter that maybe there was some members in his armies with Slavic descendant doesn't mean the thing you want to say.
Today,Macedonia has a three major problems:
1.Bulgaria doesn't recognize Macedonian language.
2.Greece doesn't recognize the republic's name "Macedonia" as it is their name of the region where sometimes it was inhabited with Greeks called Macedonians.
3.Serbian Orthodox Church(just like the other autochthon Orthodox Churches) doesn't recognize the independence of Macedonian Orthodox Church.
PS
I see that you like Alexander.That's probably because you think its easier for you(and nowdays Macedonians) to "prove" that nowdays Macedonians are "the old ones".That's wrong.You have nothing to be proud of this man.He was a criminal,a satanist,a scum in the eyes of our G-d.
He can be "great" only in twisted system of values,like it is today.That's satanist system...You should know it.
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The three problems are funny problems.
1) Macedonians consider Bulgarians like they are from Tartarstan, and they do not need or care for their recognition.
2) Greece does not want her historical lies published to the world, and shutting out Macedonia and her name is a good way to do it, but it won't work.
3) Macedonians do not need the Serbian Church to recognize the Macedonian Church because the people of Macedonia recognize their own Church.
If Hunza and Kalash people from Pakistan believe they are Macedonians and are genetically connected with the Macedonians living in the balkans, that is enough proof for me, and most of the world.
About Alexander being scum... I understand a lot of people died from his armies, especially Ancient Greeks and Persians, but in wars people die, and there needs to be a leader to fight a war. Basically what I'm saying is somebody has to do the job, or else your people will be wiped out. He is Macedonia's national hero, and spread Macedonian values throughout the whole planet.
Now you have Serbs and Bulgarians who were unheard of in those times speaking about how Macedonians don't exist. This is funny. Even funnier is modern Greeks objection to the name Macedonia, when todays Greeks (living in northern Greece ie, Macedonia) are Turkish settlers (Pontus) that are converted to Christian Orthodox.
The fact is Macedonia has survived 3000 years and has a rich history, and Macedonians have a right to be proud.
May G-d Bless All of You
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Is this not something very special and amazing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPBqVOBMpZI
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First of all, I don't find anything amazing or special about that video.
You are definitely the smartest person in FYRM who seems to believe just about anything to make himself/herself sound important......too bad nobody else believes it.....with the exception of you, yourself and Alexander The Great.
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Taka zboruva Isidor Solunski Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP3ZR_izGwo
Taka zboruva Isidor Solunski Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfaWDqDd5wI
Taka zboruva Isidor Solunski Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyWfJB7UybQ
If you have little time, just skip to part 3.
This will help you understand the Macedonian reality.
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I don't want to enter deeper argue,just one thing.
He is Macedonia's national hero, and spread Macedonian values throughout the whole planet.
You mean Hellenism right?Because Alexander was spreading Hellenism and Greek culture,not culture of the Slavs.Slavs on Balkan went to period of Hellenization during Byzantine Empire.All that we got similar derives from that period,including Orthdox Christian faith.
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How could they?! Don't they realize that 'Kosovo' is a false country?
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You want to know why?
Here is why:
According to the user Alexander The Great, citizens of FYRM are not Slavic, so no surprise there.....They are decendants of "i have no idea of where" As I said earlier, some people will believe just about anything.....Remember, you tell a lie thousand times and it becomes a truth....
Nisu ovome sve koze na broju pa svasta prica...
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I don't want to enter deeper argue,just one thing.
He is Macedonia's national hero, and spread Macedonian values throughout the whole planet.
You mean Hellenism right?Because Alexander was spreading Hellenism and Greek culture,not culture of the Slavs.Slavs on Balkan went to period of Hellenization during Byzantine Empire.All that we got similar derives from that period,including Orthdox Christian faith.
You guys talk like being Slavic is a race. No it is not, there are Slavic people who look Asian or Mongolian, like Bulgarians and some Russians. Or Polish people, who are Slavs, look like Germans and what not. There are even black Slavic people, please don't tell me they are all the same. Your way of thinking is very primitive. If Macedonians today speak a 'Slavic' language (even though they created the Cyrillic alphabet for the Macedonian language that 500 000 000 people use today), does not make them Slavic people, they are not, they are Macedonian.
Unbelievable!
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You are unbelievable. Then again, you are the smartest person from FYRM so I can understand and agree with you.
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Look,first of all nationalities didn't existed back then.You can't say that you belong to ancient Macedon nation,that would mean that you are Hellenic=Greek,but I can understand that you are citizen of Republic of Macedonia,that won't automatically mean that you are Greek but you simply can't claim flag and part of the history of your neighbor.Anyway everyone,including me,went way too far from topic.I will conclude my post with one sentence...a F***ed up Balkans,period.
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You guys talk like being Slavic is a race
Of course it is not a race,neither Hellenism is but culture!LOL I'm so done with this topic.
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The Macedonian race belongs to the "older" Mediterranean substratum. Hellenism is a dream, a fantasy world.
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sure, of course, definitely.................by the way, I used to believe in Santa Clause too, but I stopped believing in him since I was 4 years old.....good luck on your quest of convincing the world about history and heritage of FYRM, well at least untill FYRM becomes part of Greater Albania.
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Slavic black?
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Well, at least one person from FYRM is willing to believe in it as much as he/she believes in Santa Clause......