JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: artgijo on October 15, 2008, 12:13:25 PM
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Hello
I am writing this article to tell everyone the real truth, truth hurts badly and this will not come in any news media.
India is predominently Hindu country with more than 80% of population, Muslims forms about 13%(official figure) and christians 2%.
India ( Bhart) is a coutry with very old culture and civilisations dating back to 5000 yrs, Indus valley civilisation. It was called sanatana Dharma and from this way of life emerged other religions like Jainism, Budhism, Sikhism etc.
What exactly the Christian Missionaries do in India.
India is a free thinking country with a large heart, mother India hosted thousands of communities in the past whether it is jews or christians or Muslims. Anyone could freely preach , profess and practise his religion here, which is granted by the Indian constitution.
The christian missionaries came to India to profess their religion and they got thousands of followers, they built lots of hospitals and charity organisations and did good social work, we appreciate that.
Mostly this work was done by the CATHOLICS.
The PROTESTANT missionaries came to India with a mission to convert people by hook and crook, AND that is the root cause of the problem. They went into many underdeveloped tribal areas, in the name of social work, they brainwashed and converted people to Christianity(Protestants) , taken videos and snet to western countries, and made lot of money.
If you convert 100 people, you make good money, and gullible and innocent poor people fell into this trap in large numbers. I am asking you all Americans, Jews, westerners,a simple Question?
Do we come to your countries and pay money to the poor people/tribals and convert them into Hinduism, If that is done in large numbers? what will be your reaction.
This vilont backlash is the result of such illigal activities by the so called missionaries in India which no media dare to project, they will be subdued or intimidated.
This is a blatant attack on the Hindu culture, on the gullible poor tribals of Orissa and in Hinduism like all Religions, there are vilont people. They are least bothered about worl opinion, this attack will continue till the missionaries stop illigal work, I am writing this article to tell you all the truth.
If any country/sect/group/person attack our culture , there will be backlash and that is sure, there are millions here to die for a just cause. Hope all of you understand this very well.
I am very sure, many of you will get very angry aftrer reading this, because the truth is out, but I am least bothered, Hinduism always preach love and peace, that doesn't mean you can attack the native culture through illigal means and there will be vilont backlash...This is for sure
P.S: I personally don't support the extrimists, what they are doing is wrong, they must stop it, The missionaries also must think why this happened to them, there can't be fire without smoke.
Jai Hind
ARTGIJO
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I think that since India is a hindu nation it has a right to stop missionaries from preaching, by legal means, especially if they use crookery and deception. I think that the problem is that Christians are targeted, not foreign missions but entire Christians populations, isn't that what happens?
Another thing is that Hindus have lower casts like the "Untouchables" who really have no hope of seeing their conditions improving if they remained in the hindu system. I'd rather they became Christians than Muslims or Marxists and why would that bother hindus if people they think so little of leave hinduism ?
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I support the spread of Christianity into India because I believe the Bible is the source of moral principles and that there is only one God and that's the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I believe Hinduism is idolatry and should not be followed by anyone and needs to be replaced by Christianity in India.
I wish there'd be a lot more missionaries, and anybody who murders Indian Christians in cold blood should be eaten by tigers and Asiatic lions, starting with the RSS.
This post may seem harsh but you don't even know how much I'm holding back right now.
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I support the spread of Christianity into India because I believe the Bible is the source of moral principles and that there is only one G-d and that's the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I believe Hinduism is idolatry and should not be followed by anyone and needs to be replaced by Christianity in India.
I wish there'd be a lot more missionaries, and anybody who murders Indian Christians in cold blood should be eaten by tigers and Asiatic lions, starting with the RSS.
This post may seem harsh but you don't even know how much I'm holding back right now.
Might be to spicy for the animals
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Shalom,
I am AGAINST any Christian missionizing in any country, especially Israel. I wish Israel would expell all the missionaries and prevent any further loss of our brothers and sisters to a non-Jewish religion. If anything it would be nice if the people of India at least kept the Noachide laws.
muman613
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Shalom,
I am AGAINST any Christian missionizing in any country, especially Israel. I wish Israel would expell all the missionaries and prevent any further loss of our brothers and sisters to a non-Jewish religion. If anything it would be nice if the people of India at least kept the Noachide laws.
muman613
What does this topic have to do with missionizing in Israel?
It is about India and so what if Christians are in India so what if some convert to Orthodox or to catholic or what ever else as long as they do not convert to Islam
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Shalom,
I am AGAINST any Christian missionizing in any country, especially Israel. I wish Israel would expell all the missionaries and prevent any further loss of our brothers and sisters to a non-Jewish religion. If anything it would be nice if the people of India at least kept the Noachide laws.
muman613
Muman they don't want to follow those laws because their culture is not Biblically based whatsoever.
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I'd like to add to what Zelhar brought up.
Artgigo, if you're against Protestant missionaries, why doesn't the Indian government do more to help the so-called "untouchables?" What about ordinary Hindus helping these people? How strong is the caste system there anyway?
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Shalom,
I am AGAINST any Christian missionizing in any country, especially Israel. I wish Israel would expell all the missionaries and prevent any further loss of our brothers and sisters to a non-Jewish religion. If anything it would be nice if the people of India at least kept the Noachide laws.
muman613
why are you against non jews becoming christians?
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I love the missionaries. But they are sponsored by EuroCommunists and they have many things to say against the Jewish.
:laugh:
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I am against proselytization and I don't care what the Hindus believe. That's not my pigeon.
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I am against proselytization and I don't care what the Hindus believe. That's not my pigeon.
What?
That is not your bird?
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I am against proselytization and I don't care what the Hindus believe. That's not my pigeon.
What?
That is not your bird?
No, I wanted to say, that it is not of interest of me what Hindus believe.
Is this expression not correct?
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I am against proselytization and I don't care what the Hindus believe. That's not my pigeon.
What?
That is not your bird?
No, I wanted to say, that it is not of interest of me what Hindus believe.
Is this expression not correct?
You can say that is not my cup of tea
But since you like wine replace tea with wine
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I am against proselytization and I don't care what the Hindus believe. That's not my pigeon.
What?
That is not your bird?
No, I wanted to say, that it is not of interest of me what Hindus believe.
Is this expression not correct?
You can say that is not my cup of tea
But since you like wine replace tea with wine
Ok thank you :)
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It sounds to me that there is a lot that isn't mentioned here for this topic. There are many missing details. It seems that everyone calls themselves a Christian, a popular term this day even for those who really don't believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah (including Oprah and Obama). Anyway, anyone can claim to be a Christian but Jesus said a tree would be judged by the fruits. So, in short, those that are angering you by their crooked and wicked ways as "missionaries" are not really "Christian" because they do not follow the Christian biblical beliefs if they behave wickedly. So, don't let it get to you. There are wicked, deceitful, people every where. Jesus said that the goats would be divided from the sheep in the end. India's missionaries are an assortment of true Christians and those who use the term "Christian" to make money (the goats and the sheep). You might not believe as I do, but I hope it helps to explain this so it doesn't get to you. I am very sorry that you and your fellow country men run into such wickedness. God will deal with them in the end.
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Artijo, this pogrom was not brought on by missionaries. Hindu nationalists blamed Christians for the murder of a prominent Hindu swami (who was killed either by Maoist rebels or Muslim Nazis). Christians had nothing to do with it, but are being scapegoated.
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I support the spread of Christianity into India because I believe the Bible is the source of moral principles and that there is only one G-d and that's the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I believe Hinduism is idolatry and should not be followed by anyone and needs to be replaced by Christianity in India.
I wish there'd be a lot more missionaries, and anybody who murders Indian Christians in cold blood should be eaten by tigers and Asiatic lions, starting with the RSS.
This post may seem harsh but you don't even know how much I'm holding back right now.
I share your rage in regards to the current pogroms, but Muslims are still far worse than Hindus when it comes to persecution. We must also remember that not all Hindus are responsible for these atrocious attacks.
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Artijo, this pogrom was not brought on by missionaries. Hindu nationalists blamed Christians for the murder of a prominent Hindu swami (who was killed either by Maoist rebels or Muslim Nazis). Christians had nothing to do with it, but are being scapegoated.
Those who make excuses for terrorists, as Artijo did, are terrorists. Those who make excuses for murderers (and then pretend not to agree with the murders) sicken me. >:( :yuck:
You're right C.F., 100%
Also it's not only Christians that are targeted, but Christians are many of the victims.
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Hindus missionize the West using yoga. The yoga that we see in the West is the beautified version than the one known in India. The World Hindu Federation (Vishwa Hindu Parishad) agenda states that the best way to convert the West is through yoga.
It was Christianity which civilized the Indians. Temple prostitution, oppressive caste system, forcing wives to jump into the funeral pyre, arranged marriages are some of the evil things that Hinduism brought upon India.
The reason this guy is raising this in the JTF forum is to put a wedge between Jews and Christians. Remember these yogis have their agenda to spiritually destroy Israel. Every year more than 60,000 Jews visit India to have their "spiritual" needs fulfilled. If you read the Bible carefully you will learn almost 10 tribes were lost from the nation of Israel because they followed the ancient version of Hinduism. Hinduism existed in the anicient world in various forms and it survives in India predominantly in its present form.
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Christian Zionist, why do the yogis want to spiritually destroy Israel?
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This topic is degenerating into an area which I object. Please no more missionising or mentioning your messiahs here. This is a sensitive issue especially for a Jew who has firm beliefs in the coming of Moshiach. I dont want to get into it and re-ignite a problem which we had a couple weeks ago.
Please stick on topic and avoid bringing up your own religious beliefs which conflict with Jewish beliefs. Those thoughts should be posted on a non-Jewish forum...
Thank you,
muman613
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This topic is degenerating into an area which I object. Please no more missionising or mentioning your messiahs here. This is a sensitive issue especially for a Jew who has firm beliefs in the coming of Moshiach. I dont want to get into it and re-ignite a problem which we had a couple weeks ago.
Please stick on topic and avoid bringing up your own religious beliefs which conflict with Jewish beliefs. Those thoughts should be posted on a non-Jewish forum...
Thank you,
muman613
We are allowed to bring up our religious beliefs if we want none of us are trying to convert anyone.
What only the jewish members are allowed to talk about there beliefs
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This topic is degenerating into an area which I object. Please no more missionising or mentioning your messiahs here. This is a sensitive issue especially for a Jew who has firm beliefs in the coming of Moshiach. I dont want to get into it and re-ignite a problem which we had a couple weeks ago.
Please stick on topic and avoid bringing up your own religious beliefs which conflict with Jewish beliefs. Those thoughts should be posted on a non-Jewish forum...
Thank you,
muman613
We are allowed to bring up our religious beliefs if we want none of us are trying to convert anyone.
What only the jewish members are allowed to talk about there beliefs
Is this the Jewish Task Force? I believe it is. We are a movement for Jews and Zionists, not for people to talk about other gods which may lead some astray. I dont want to be judgmental but I think this is within line with the JTF policy. In the past, when I tried to explain the Jewish belief in Moshiach, which is not the same as your belief in Messiah, I offended some people. It would be best to avoid this if at all possible.
You are entitled to believe what you want. But this is not the place to post pictures or mention the name of foreign G-ds to the children of Israel. I believe that this is a good policy. Since JTF doesnt violate Shabbat it also should not violate other mitzvahs.
muman613
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Muman, I wish you did not live so far away. I would love to ride a bicycle up your driveway. Hop off, skip up to your doorway and wait for you to answer the door. Once you opened it up I would slap you on the forhead and yell at the top of my lungs. "Cast out you evil demons in the name of JEEEZus." Of course, follow it up with a few sprinkles of holy water for Catholic Zionist's sake, give you a big hug and skip back down the driveway.
Love ya man,
Sham out. :::D
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Muman, I wish you did not live so far away. I would love to ride a bicycle up your driveway. Hop off, skip up to your doorway and wait for you to answer the door. Once you opened it up I would slap you on the forhead and yell at the top of my lungs. "Cast out you evil demons in the name of JEEEZus." Of course, follow it up with a few sprinkles of holy water for Catholic Zionist's sake, give you a big hug and skip back down the driveway.
Love ya man,
Sham out. :::D
Thank you Shamgar,
I know you are doing this out of love... But I am really trying to avoid saying things which may offend others. The best thing to do is to compromise. I will compromise in the hope that we can all achieve the peace which we all believe will come during the age of Moshiach. I pray for his coming each day.
muman613
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This topic is degenerating into an area which I object. Please no more missionising or mentioning your messiahs here. This is a sensitive issue especially for a Jew who has firm beliefs in the coming of Moshiach. I dont want to get into it and re-ignite a problem which we had a couple weeks ago.
Please stick on topic and avoid bringing up your own religious beliefs which conflict with Jewish beliefs. Those thoughts should be posted on a non-Jewish forum...
Thank you,
muman613
We are allowed to bring up our religious beliefs if we want none of us are trying to convert anyone.
What only the Jewish members are allowed to talk about there beliefs
Is this the Jewish Task Force? I believe it is. We are a movement for Jews and Zionists, not for people to talk about other gods which may lead some astray. I dint want to be judgmental but I think this is within line with the JTF policy. In the past, when I tried to explain the Jewish belief in Moshiach, which is not the same as your belief in Messiah, I offended some people. It would be best to avoid this if at all possible.
You are entitled to believe what you want. But this is not the place to post pictures or mention the name of foreign G-ds to the children of Israel. I believe that this is a good policy. Since JTF doesnt violate Shabbat it also should not violate other mitzvahs.
muman613
Who the hell posted pictures?
Do you really think I care what you think ?
I believe in Jesus I know Jews don't I am fine with that but if Christian members want to talk they should be able to
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Everyone, please keep it civil. We're all adults. And right now it looks like Barack Hussein Obama is going to be our next President. Don't make me lock the thread.
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This topic is degenerating into an area which I object. Please no more missionising or mentioning your messiahs here. This is a sensitive issue especially for a Jew who has firm beliefs in the coming of Moshiach. I dont want to get into it and re-ignite a problem which we had a couple weeks ago.
Please stick on topic and avoid bringing up your own religious beliefs which conflict with Jewish beliefs. Those thoughts should be posted on a non-Jewish forum...
Thank you,
muman613
We are allowed to bring up our religious beliefs if we want none of us are trying to convert anyone.
What only the Jewish members are allowed to talk about there beliefs
Is this the Jewish Task Force? I believe it is. We are a movement for Jews and Zionists, not for people to talk about other gods which may lead some astray. I dint want to be judgmental but I think this is within line with the JTF policy. In the past, when I tried to explain the Jewish belief in Moshiach, which is not the same as your belief in Messiah, I offended some people. It would be best to avoid this if at all possible.
You are entitled to believe what you want. But this is not the place to post pictures or mention the name of foreign G-ds to the children of Israel. I believe that this is a good policy. Since JTF doesnt violate Shabbat it also should not violate other mitzvahs.
muman613
Who the hell posted pictures?
Do you really think I care what you think ?
I believe in Jesus I know Jews don't I am fine with that but if Christian members want to talk they should be able to
AH,
Personally I wish I knew what you were thinking... That is not the issue. In the past there were JTF members who had pictures of their messiah in their signatures. It was decided that this was not suitable for JTF. As I said before everyone is entitled to believe in what they want. But the question is whether it is proper etiquette for non-Jews to be talking about things which are obviously against our beliefs in a Jewish forum. I could easily argue against your beliefs and make references to the teachings which prove this point. But I will not do this because I respect the fact that others believe what they do for various reasons. It is a world where free-will is paramount since one can only be judged by what they choose, or choose not, to believe.
Why would anyone want to enter someones home and say things which would cause conflicts? I dont do that on Christian forums because I have respect for those people in their space. When we invite non-Jews to Shabbat meals we dont expect them to start talking about their gods. What have I asked which is so hard to comprehend?
AH, maybe you are still mad at me from a couple weeks ago. I am very sorry if I said things which upset you and I am trying hard to prevent this from happening again.
Thank you,
muman613
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First off, JTF is against anyone trying to get Jews to abandon their religion. That's one thing the admins feel very strongly about.
Now with that being said, I don't understand what is going on here.
Artgigo, we work with all good people on this forum in our fight against the Islamic threat and their leftist enablers in the West.
Other than that, I don't want to see any religion maligned here (except for Islam). So let's all make nice. OK?
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Muman, someone had Benny Hinn in thier signature???
(http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb298/cookebuna/Bennyhinn.jpg)
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First off, JTF is against anyone trying to get Jews to abandon their religion. That's one thing the admins feel very strongly about.
Now with that being said, I don't understand what is going on here.
Artgigo, we work with all good people on this forum in our fight against the Islamic threat and their leftist enablers in the West.
Other than that, I don't want to see any religion maligned here (except for Islam). So let's all make nice. OK?
Lisa,
You are correct. I simply was asking that the discussion which started to discuss missionaries and then someone mentioned some teachings of Jesus to avoid such digression. Apparently AH took this to be more than I intended because I simply wanted to avoid this kind of bickering.
Once again, I may be over sensitive and I apologize for this...
muman613
PS: Oy, Benny Hinn.... He is such a fuitcake!
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muman613
PS: Oy, Benny Hinn.... He is such a fuitcake!
Absolute proof that God loves us but has a great sense of humor.
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Shamgar,
Benny Hinn is a false prophet... Check out all his failed prophecies @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Hinn .
muman613
Hinn made a number of unfulfilled (religious) prophecies for the 90s, such as God will destroy America's homosexual community in 1995 or the death of Fidel Castro,[7] election of the first female president of the USA,[8] the East Coast of the United States will be devastated by earthquakes,[7] etc., all before the third millennium. Hinn also appeared on the Trinity Broadcasting Network in October 1999 to claim that God had given him a vision that thousands of dead people would be resurrected after watching the network -- laying out a scenario of people placing their dead loved ones' hands on TV screens tuned into the station -- and that TBN would be "an extension of Heaven to Earth." Hinn has also claimed that Adam was a "superbeing" who could fly to the Moon; that God froze the Red Sea with his breath when he parted it; and that Christ would make a personal appearance at a crusade in Nairobi, Kenya, in 2001[citation needed].
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Muman,
I do agree with you on the fraud Benny Hinn (ys"vz), but other than that, I am not sure what your purpose is. Nobody is talking about missionizing Jews here or forcing their religion on the Jews here. Artijo was wrong and mistaken about missionaries being behind the recent attacks in India. He stated something that was false, and we refuted it. Missionizing Jews had nothing to do with the discussion or even the OP. If anything, you should be mad at Artijo for talking about missionizing to begin with.
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Muman, I totally agree. I would not even have prophet as part of his title. He is a charlatan, fake and a criminal. But he is still hilariously funny to watch. I can be flipping through the channels and catch a glimpse of him and just have to flip back. Within the first 60 seconds I will be laughing hysterically and chasing the kids around the house trying to slap them on the foreheads.
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Muman,
I do agree with you on the fraud Benny Hinn (ys"vz), but other than that, I am not sure what your purpose is. Nobody is talking about missionizing Jews here or forcing their religion on the Jews here. Artijo was wrong and mistaken about missionaries being behind the recent attacks in India. He stated something that was false, and we refuted it. Missionizing Jews had nothing to do with the discussion or even the OP. If anything, you should be mad at Artijo for talking about missionizing to begin with.
C.F,
I agree... As I stated in my initial post on this topic, I am against Missionary activity {especially in Israel}. I am one who believes that a smart human will always seek the truth and according to our belief Torah is truth. A wise man will discover the wonders of Hashem and seek the source of all creation, our HaKodesh Baruch hu. We dont need to force others to believe. We dont need to go out and convert others.
I think it is wrong what is going on in India concerning the oppression of the Christians at the hands of the Hindus. I dont really know the facts in this issue but from what you describe it sounds very wrong. The Hindu religion has millions and millions of adherents, while Judaism is a dwindling religion which has been ravaged by pogroms, crusaders, inquisitions, and holocausts and assimilation. I have friends who are Hindus and they are very nice people. I think that there is hope for them because they are also searching for the truth.
I will apologize once more if I have set anyone against me. I am sure we have more in common than we have differences.
muman613
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He wouldn't still be here if he'd been trying to justify killings of Jewish people. What if he'd said "Oh yes it's very wrong to kill Jewish people but the Jewish people were asking for it by doing this that, and that." That excrement wouldn't be tolerated for a second! Somehow, if it's against Christians, it's ok! I never said that Hindus should be murdered en masse, only those who kill Christians. Tell him to make nice and stop justifying murder of non-Hindus.
Tell one of the Christian villagers driven into the jungle to save their life that Hindus aren't as bad as Muslims.
Make nice? Whatever... I think I've said what I can say. And Muman? This thread was about Christians, so that's why Christian beliefs were ok to bring up, because that was the subject of the thread. You get angry with the Christians for responding to the original poster but don't get angry with the original poster for basically making excuses for murder.
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I'm sorry but I have to stand with Muman here. I'm sure the Hindu mobs acted irrationally but Hindus are being outnumbered by Muslims and are losing their religion to Christianity too. I'm all for Christians bringing Athiests, agnostics and tribal people to Christianity but some missionaries are using money to convert people in India. India wants to remain Hindu and that is their religion. I look at people like Mother Theresa and other Christians from all sects who help the poor and bring people to Christianity in India and hose people are nothing but righteous. There are so called Christians on the other hand, like the Jews for Jesus crowd, that use any means to try to convert people.
Hindus have a right to defend their religion from converts just as Jews have a right to defend against Christian missionaries when they cross the line.
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I'm going to lock this thread before I say something I"m going to regret because I am so furious right now I can't see straight.
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Wow... and so many moderators and members here that I love and respect. What do I say?
Thank you for locking the thread, Rubystars. You did the right thing.
It's very difficult when people of different religions come together for a common goal or cause. Religious matters are the most personal (nothing is more personal than a person's relationship with the Creator) and it's easy for things to get heated. This is reasonable.
As per Hindus, I know that there was an extremely tiny sect that was brutal to the Christians but the Hindus are usually a very peaceful people. I have known quite a few wonderful Hindus and they are welcome if they wish to join us in our fight to save Israel and our fight against islam - the death cult that glamorizes murder of innocent people. No one worries about Hindus being suicide bombers or terrorists. This also applies to Buddhists. They are also welcome here.
Muman, please try to help me keep fights under control instead of fanning them. lol You are an amazingly intelligent person whom I agree with most of the time but we are required to show kindness and say things in a way that people can accept. According to Gemara, If someone cannot accept what we say, then we are forbidden to say it... obviously this doesn't apply to nazis or traitors.
Rubystars, I know you have been upset about the Hindus for quite some time. You have to understand that to Jewish people, some forms of Christianity sound like idolatry too. I'm sorry to have to say this (not that people here don't know this already), but I'm just trying to be very open and honest to you. But you don't see us locking out Christians who are good souls, righteous gentiles, who love Israel, and who love G-d with all their heart. There were times in history that Christians mass murdered and tortured Jews, but the vast majority of Christians today don't agree with this and we don't push them away because of this. They are important to us and help us immensely. There are many Christian moderators and global moderators on this forum whom we respect and cherish.
We are at a historic moment when Jewish people and the Christian people are fighting together to save our very lives and the lives of our children and great grandchildren. It is necessary but out of this necessity, we are learning to be respectful to one another about our differences in our beliefs. And if Hindus and Buddhists want to join in, G-d bless them. We just hope that most people wish to grow in their relationship with Hashem in the way that's possible for them.
I hope you understand and please don't let it get you so upset. Everyone here knows how much you love and help JTF. And you made very passionate and reasonable arguments that are understandable. I hope this helps explain in a respectful way.
-Shlomo
(P.S. Moderators can still post on this locked thread if they wish to)