JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Joe Gutfeld on February 26, 2007, 06:03:03 PM
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Jesus remins were found in a documentury today. Do you think that this could be real? What are your views on this?
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What documentary...please tell me what channel and when was it on...and the name of the documentary
thanks
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This is a good thing. It proves Jebus did not ascend to heaven.
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I heard it's on the Discovery channel
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Don't allow yourselves to be deceived by ridiculous propaganda.
This "story" is pure BS from start to finish.
It was first released a full year ago; with National Geographic giving it complete coverage.
Every archaeologist & historian who have examined the burial tomb & the sarcophagus have concluded that there is nothing at all notable about such a find.
The burial arrangements and plot are those of a quite wealthy person; which by itself would exclude Jesus & his family.
Every other Jew during the time of the Roman Occupation had the names Yeshua, Yochanon, Miriam, Yosef, Chaim, etc... , which are the names inscribed on the burial site.
This "non-event" could have never been "announced" as a "sensation", were it not for the millions of people who think that the names Yosef, Yeshua, Yochanon, Miriam, were the exclusive names of only three individuals in all of history; which just happened to be the ones in the New Testament Gospels.
Last, but not least; I find it personally offensive to mock the beliefs of others who are as equally sincere in their faith, as are we in ours.
If you don't want the story of Pesach ridiculed by secular moderns as "having never happened", then don't ridicule the miracles which underly the faith and righteous behavior of our Christian friends and neighbors.
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I am highly skeptical.
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I am a christian and I agree with MassuhDGoodName. I would also like to state that we christians are seriously limited in our ability to respond to such nonsense here on this forum. Be certain that if that were not the case there is at least one christian right here that would gladly debate this quite successfully. But since we are in effect incapable of offering any response that would debunk this without crossing over that line of proselytising, I don't think such topics should be tolerated here. That's not what this is about. ???
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The Ahamdia muslim sect founder Mirza Gulam Ahamed and his followers would be scared to hear this news.
They have one tomb in Kashmir, India which they claim as the grave site of Jesus. Ahamadia sect believes that Jesus came to Kashmir and died. Mirza Gulam Ahamed instructed his followers to prove that it was indeed Jesus' tomb to deny His resurrection and also said "If we prove Jesus had died and did not rise again we can drive Christianity out of the Earth". Therefore Ahamadia muslim fervently argue and try to prove that the tomb of Jesus is in Kashmir. They have all "historical proofs" about Jesus visiting and dying in Kashmir. Ahamadia sect is considered a non muslim minority in Pakistan.
MassuhDGoodName I agree with you 100%. You are one of the most knowledgeable posters in this forum with great understanding (in all areas)
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I guess none of you have read the divinci code
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Actually I attended an all day seminar on how the DaVinci code contradicts itself from start to finish, it was almost laughable. If you are interested I can try to get the person's name who gave the presentation, I am pretty sure he has a book that is basically what he presented in the seminar. UPDATE; I just called my church and got the info. The man's name is Darrell Bock and the book that the seminar was based on is called Breaking The DaVinci Code.
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Every other Jew during the time of the Roman Occupation had the names Yeshua, Yochanon, Miriam, Yosef, Chaim,
Even today those are commen Hebrew names
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I think you are all wrong. I think his name was Yasiss(Yasus) because the Christians replace J for Y in biblical names. Yakov=Jacob Yehoushuah=Joshuah=Judah Yasiss(Yasus)=Jesus.
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On the issue of names, I was under the impression that Jesus is a romanisation of Yeshua.(for the reference of anyone reading this topic who does not know, I am a christian)
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I think Jesus's real name was Yehoshua (Joshua).
Hello Yacov, and good day to you.
It's a good guess, but it's impossible to know Jesus's real name since the only record of his name is found in the Greek Testament. It's mostly the "Hebrew Christians/Messianics" who worry about it anyway, some going as far as to say all those who use 'Jesus' are pagans who will have no salavation.
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Romanizations end in s. That's why Moshe was changed to Moses. That's also why Christians say Judas instead of Judah.
Exactly, the name Jesus ends in an "s"
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http://www.jesusfilm.org/languages/index.html
:o
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All this proves one thing: Jesus was a real person not the child of god.
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The chances of finding all of these names in the same cave is a million to one. I'm sorry but the christians will just have to be honest and accept it.
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The chances of finding all of these names in the same cave is a million to one. I'm sorry but the christians will just have to be honest and accept it.
At the same time, Cameron and Jacobvici are known for publicity stunts. Cameron with his underwater search for the Titanic and Jacobvici for his search of biblical Red Sea and Mount Sinai.
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The chances of finding all of these names in the same cave is a million to one. I'm sorry but the christians will just have to be honest and accept it.
Check this out!
Tomb of Jesus in India:
http://www.tombofjesus.com/2007/index.html
Tomb of Jesus in Japan:
http://www.thiaoouba.com/tomb.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/26/AR2007022600442.html
Indepth analysis:
http://www.carm.org/evidence/Jesus_tomb.htm
Among the problems with the documentary's claim, experts say, is the fact that the names on the ossuaries were common during biblical times.
"Joseph is the second most common male name in the period. Jesus is the sixth. Matthew's the ninth," Darrell Bock, professor of New Testament at Dallas Theological Seminary, told Baptist Press. "Mary is the most popular female name -- 21 percent of the female names of the period. So, you're dealing with a lot of familiar names."
According to the documentary's website, the six ossuaries read, "Jesus Son of Joseph," "Mary," "Mary known as the master," "Judah son of Jesus," "Jose" and "Matthew." The ossuary for Mary's husband, Joseph, was not found, according to the website.
Yet the Bible has no mention of Jesus being married, much less having a son. Also, there is no known relationship of Jesus to Matthew. Mark 6:3 lists four half-brothers of Christ: James, Joses (or Joseph), Judas (not Judas the traitor) and Simon. He also had half-sisters, according to the passage. Although there were ossuaries for a James and a Jose, no other ossuaries with inscriptions for these additional brothers and sisters were found. Stephen Pfann, a biblical scholar at the University of the Holy Land in Jerusalem, told the Associated Press he believes the script on the Jesus' ossuary more likely says "Hanun," and not "Jesus."
Cameron and those behind the documentary say they asked a statistician to calculate the odds of finding the aforementioned biblical names of the New Testament period -- Jesus, Mary, Mary, Jose and Matthew -- together in one tomb. The statistician, Andrey Feuerverger of the University of Toronto, said the odds are only 1 in 600 it wasn't Jesus' family tomb.
"Statistical analysis is only as good as the numbers that you run," said Ben Witherington III, professor of New Testament at Asbury Theological Seminary in Wilmore, Ky. "There are more statistics under the ground than above ground at this point, by which I mean there are tons more names out there and items with names on them out there that have not yet been excavated. There are more unexcavated sites than excavated sites in Israel. We don't know that the sample that they ran the numbers on is representative of the whole set. We have no way of knowing that -- that's just an assumption on their part."
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CAMERON WENT TO THE WRONG COUNTRY IN SEARCH OF TOMBSTONES MARKED "HERE LIES JESUS":
HE SHOULD'VE HEADED SOUTH TO MEXICO.
THERE, ACCORDING TO THE "BRILLIANT" DIRECTOR'S "LOGIC", HIS FILM WOULD PROVE THAT JESUS SAILED TO TIJUANA, AND METAPHYSICALLY SPLIT HIMSELF INTO 200 BILLION "JESUS BEINGS"; ALL WITH THE SAME NAME!
*after all; if Jesus could have lived after crucifixion, married Mary Magdalene, fathered children, and moved to the south of France where the Virgin Mary owned choice vineyards [in essence the myth believed by many fools these days], why could he not have actually moved to Mexico; using the "French disinformation story" as his "cover"?
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I think it's a very interesting topic.
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I wonder what sarah has to say about this topic.
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Whether this find is true or not makes no difference to Judaism and our people.
Judaism does not depend on other religion for credence. The other way round is however true. The truth that Judaism stands on is the revelation at Sinai to the whole of the Jewish nation there.
Having said this, the likelihood of this being a sensationalist headline grabbing exercise is not beyond the realms of possibility. We should have no business even hinting at a denegration of other peoples' religions unless these directly mock and blaspheme against Hashem.
This type of thread does nothing, not for us and neither for our Christian neighbours.
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c'mon...the Cameron mockumentary was an obvious fake.
It reminded me of the old "Alien Autopsy" that showed on FOX over 10 years ago.
Please, don't tell me that some people are really taking this crap seriously?
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I believe in what they say. I also believe in the Roswell story. Not the autopsy. It has been proven that it's a fake.
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That's right
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This is no fake. Those names are there on the tombs. They were found in situ by archaeologists. The question is whether or not there was another Jesus with a father named Joseph, a mother named Maria, a significant person in his life named Mariamne, a brother named Yoseh, and a brother named James. The chances that there was another such person are 30000 to 1. That means we are 99.9967 percent sure that this is his tomb.
If there was a Russian Roulette game played with a gun with 29,999 full chambers and 1 empty chamber. Would you put that gun to your head?
All the people who dismiss this, have not looked at the facts. It's time to admit the truth. This is really the Tomb of Jesus of Nazareth. If you don't like it. TOO BAD!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: "...This is no fake. Those names are there on the tombs..."
Mere speculation is not "fact".
The film maker was told by every archaeologist and historian that finding such a tomb would mean nothing, being that every other Jew at that time had those names.
In addition to that, I don't know too many Jewish families that bury the village prostitute in a crypt with their immediate kin; even when her name has been altered, as inscribed on the tomb.
I heard the film maker interviewed on NPR, and by his own admission, stated that after every expert which he had consulted had refuted his "speculation"; he turned to an academic "statistician" to provide some numbers he could attempt to use as "proof"; one with no knowledge whatsoever of the ancient Middle East, Jewish History, or the New Testament.
Completely absurd...the statistician jiggled some figures around based on "what is the chance that you'll find a grave with all of those Gospel characters' names inscribed on it".
This is the same illogical train of thought that allows "so-called scholars" to announce..."Moses never lived!...there never were Jews in Egypt....they merely made up the entire myth to suit their agenda!...I can absolutely prove it, because we went to the Sinai on an archaelogical dig, and could find no traces of Israelites!...then we read the hieroglyphics in the Cairo Museum, and not one of them mentioned that Moses was a real figure....therefore...case closed".
Hearsay and wishful thinking do not equal documented and verifiable evidence.
If they do, then Al Gore is 100% correct about global warming, and we must immediately bow to the UN.
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I hope that it's real
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That's right