JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: habiru on January 04, 2009, 04:25:18 PM
-
David Weintraub
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTvVYgZleXk#
-
Even though I agree with the bombing of Hamas, this guy has good intentions, but he is an idiot who does not know the in and outs of the situation. Good for him anyway.
-
Hey that's great, Bomb those Motherf**kers! ;D
-
They're still some old school left wingers supporting Israel; but anyway it's good for him.
-
That guy looked pretty stupid, but at least he didn't say anything bad about Israel.
-
David Weintraub
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTvVYgZleXk#
we should really set our standard a bit higher than saying hollywood jews should be physically healthy and right wing. The guy is showing off tattoos (tattoos are forbidden for jews by the way!)
I suppose it's good that he's far from being a Woody Allen!
-
David Weintraub
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTvVYgZleXk#
we should really set our standard a bit higher than saying hollywood jews should be physically healthy and right wing. The guy is showing off tattoos (tattoos are forbidden for jews by the way!)
I suppose it's good that he's far from being a Woody Allen!
His tattoo looked like it was a star of David tattoo. That's pretty weird.
-
What if a Jewish person gets their tattoos removed, are they still just as bad off as far as Judaism goes than if they had kept them? Is the problem that they got them in the first place?
-
What if a Jewish person gets their tattoos removed, are they still just as bad off as far as Judaism goes than if they had kept them? Is the problem that they got them in the first place?
I am not absolutely sure what the answer to the question is.
But the reason it is not allowed in Judaism is twofold, in my understanding.
1) The practice of marking the flesh was done by idolatrous sects and Jews are commanded not to follow their ways. This and the act of shaving the head are both ways idolatrous sects displayed their mourning. Tearing the flesh is a way of mourning.
2) We are supposed to not do things to disrespect the body. Aside from the Jewish command for circumcision a Jew should not do any modifications {aside from medical} for the sake of vanity.
I am sure that if the person is remorseful of the act and it can be erased he or she would be forgiven.
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/256,120/What-does-Judaism-say-about-tattoos.html
A. The body is the sanctuary of the soul, and just like a sound mind deserves a sound body, so does the soul. Tattoos, hazing cuts, permanent discoloring of the skin or other destructive insults to the body are prohibited. You wouldn't kick holes in your walls, would you? So why do it to your soul's house?1
Another reason for this prohibition is because it was a common practice in ancient times for people to brand themselves as "slaves" of their idols.
You wouldn't kick holes in your walls, would you? So why do it to your soul's house?
The prohibition of tattooing consists of have an indelible inscription etched into one's skin.2
B. In ancient times, and probably in some cultures today, deep cuts or other such injuries were inflicted on one's self in mourning for a lost loved one. Besides being a violation of the Torah's body-maintenance guidelines3, they are also considered idolatrous practices because of their ritual nature--and the Torah doesn't like idolatry.
C. Another bodily injury with idolatrous roots is the practice of manually pulling one's hair out to mourn for one's dead. While grief may oft-times be powerful enough to warrant a most original haircut, it is forbidden4, because it was an accepted practice of ancient idolatrous cultures.
Footnotes
* 1. It is permitted for women to pierce themselves for (commonly accepted) beautification purposes. It is forbidden for men to pierce themselves, and it is forbidden for a woman to pierce in concurrence with a fad or trend.
* 2. Leviticus 19:28
* 3. Deuteronomy 14:1
* 4. ibid
-
What if a Jewish person gets their tattoos removed, are they still just as bad off as far as Judaism goes than if they had kept them? Is the problem that they got them in the first place?
I have heard stories of jews that got tattoos in the past, e.g. in concentration camps, where they got a number on their arm.
Or they are a person that became religious, and they've kept it. As a reminder.
If it was the case that removing it helps in relation to jewish law, then i'm sure they would have had it removed.
Maybe the issue is more one of marking the body. So removing the tattoo and making a scar, is just replacing bad with bad. It makes me wonder though, maybe- strictly speaking- removing a mole for aesthetic reasons is forbidden!
-
What if a Jewish person gets their tattoos removed, are they still just as bad off as far as Judaism goes than if they had kept them? Is the problem that they got them in the first place?
I have heard stories of jews that got tattoos in the past, e.g. in concentration camps, where they got a number on their arm.
Or they are a person that became religious, and they've kept it. As a reminder.
If it was the case that removing it helps in relation to jewish law, then i'm sure they would have had it removed.
Maybe the issue is more one of marking the body. So removing the tattoo and making a scar, is just replacing bad with bad. It makes me wonder though, maybe- strictly speaking- removing a mole for aesthetic reasons is forbidden!
The new tattoo removal systems leave no scars
-
What if a Jewish person gets their tattoos removed, are they still just as bad off as far as Judaism goes than if they had kept them? Is the problem that they got them in the first place?
I have heard stories of jews that got tattoos in the past, e.g. in concentration camps, where they got a number on their arm.
Or they are a person that became religious, and they've kept it. As a reminder.
If it was the case that removing it helps in relation to jewish law, then i'm sure they would have had it removed.
Maybe the issue is more one of marking the body. So removing the tattoo and making a scar, is just replacing bad with bad. It makes me wonder though, maybe- strictly speaking- removing a mole for aesthetic reasons is forbidden!
The new tattoo removal systems leave no scars
I heard you just pull the sticker off ;-)
-
What if a Jewish person gets their tattoos removed, are they still just as bad off as far as Judaism goes than if they had kept them? Is the problem that they got them in the first place?
I have heard stories of jews that got tattoos in the past, e.g. in concentration camps, where they got a number on their arm.
Or they are a person that became religious, and they've kept it. As a reminder.
If it was the case that removing it helps in relation to jewish law, then i'm sure they would have had it removed.
Maybe the issue is more one of marking the body. So removing the tattoo and making a scar, is just replacing bad with bad. It makes me wonder though, maybe- strictly speaking- removing a mole for aesthetic reasons is forbidden!
The new tattoo removal systems leave no scars
I heard you just pull the sticker off ;-)
It would pull the hair too ;D
-
David Weintraub
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTvVYgZleXk#
we should really set our standard a bit higher than saying hollywood jews should be physically healthy and right wing. The guy is showing off tattoos (tattoos are forbidden for jews by the way!)
The guy is just ignorant. G-d willing one day he will be shown the proper path of the Toroh and he will follow it.
Anyway, if a Jew has a tatoo and it can be removed then he or she should remove it.
-
What if a Jewish person gets their tattoos removed, are they still just as bad off as far as Judaism goes than if they had kept them? Is the problem that they got them in the first place?
I have heard stories of jews that got tattoos in the past, e.g. in concentration camps, where they got a number on their arm.
Or they are a person that became religious, and they've kept it. As a reminder.
If it was the case that removing it helps in relation to jewish law, then i'm sure they would have had it removed.
Maybe the issue is more one of marking the body. So removing the tattoo and making a scar, is just replacing bad with bad. It makes me wonder though, maybe- strictly speaking- removing a mole for aesthetic reasons is forbidden!
The new tattoo removal systems leave no scars
I heard you just pull the sticker off ;-)
It would pull the hair too ;D
I don't have my books around but funnily enough I think that -is- forbidden in jewish law!! Jewish Men are not meant to pluck out hairs, it's considered effeminate behaviour, and a sin. I don't know if that applies to hair anywhere.
Q) What's the difference between Gary Glitter(pedophile), and a greyhound ?
A) The greyhound waits for the hare.
-
Thanks Muman and QQ for answering my question. About plucking out hairs, what if someone else plucks the hair out, like someone at a hair place? Is that technically different? Like for example could a man have his eyebrows shaped if he were running for office or something else that required a good image, or would that still be considered effeminate and forbidden? Also what if (hopefully not) the Jewish person was a suspect and a forensics team needed hair samples? Would it be permitted for the Jewish person to allow the team to pluck some hairs for that purpose?
-
What if a Jewish person gets their tattoos removed, are they still just as bad off as far as Judaism goes than if they had kept them? Is the problem that they got them in the first place?
I AM VERY Jewish about this---NO TATTOOS! :P :yuck:
-
I don't like tattoos AsheDina, I agree that they're sinful and that people shouldn't mark their bodies like that. However I was curious as to whether it made a difference, like if someone had them previously then they realized their mistake, if they could put it right before G-d by having them removed.
Thank G-d I don't have any.
I always thought they were nasty things, especially on women.
-
I am not absolutely sure what the answer to the question is.
But the reason it is not allowed in Judaism is twofold, in my understanding.
1) The practice of marking the flesh was done by idolatrous sects and Jews are commanded not to follow their ways. This and the act of shaving the head are both ways idolatrous sects displayed their mourning. Tearing the flesh is a way of mourning.
2) We are supposed to not do things to disrespect the body. Aside from the Jewish command for circumcision a Jew should not do any modifications {aside from medical} for the sake of vanity.
I am sure that if the person is remorseful of the act and it can be erased he or she would be forgiven.
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/256,120/What-does-Judaism-say-about-tattoos.html
A. The body is the sanctuary of the soul, and just like a sound mind deserves a sound body, so does the soul. Tattoos, hazing cuts, permanent discoloring of the skin or other destructive insults to the body are prohibited. You wouldn't kick holes in your walls, would you? So why do it to your soul's house?1
Another reason for this prohibition is because it was a common practice in ancient times for people to brand themselves as "slaves" of their idols.
You wouldn't kick holes in your walls, would you? So why do it to your soul's house?
The prohibition of tattooing consists of have an indelible inscription etched into one's skin.2
B. In ancient times, and probably in some cultures today, deep cuts or other such injuries were inflicted on one's self in mourning for a lost loved one. Besides being a violation of the Torah's body-maintenance guidelines3, they are also considered idolatrous practices because of their ritual nature--and the Torah doesn't like idolatry.
C. Another bodily injury with idolatrous roots is the practice of manually pulling one's hair out to mourn for one's dead. While grief may oft-times be powerful enough to warrant a most original haircut, it is forbidden4, because it was an accepted practice of ancient idolatrous cultures.
Footnotes
* 1. It is permitted for women to pierce themselves for (commonly accepted) beautification purposes. It is forbidden for men to pierce themselves, and it is forbidden for a woman to pierce in concurrence with a fad or trend.
* 2. Leviticus 19:28
* 3. Deuteronomy 14:1
* 4. ibid
Muman, I thought that the Torah prohibitions of tattoos had to do with tattooing for idolatrous or spiritist purposes. The Bible doesn't speak of tattoos in the modern Western sense, at least not directly.
-
Related to rubystars question...
First, To the question of plucking hair.
ok, here's some info,
The chafetz chaim in the concise book of mitzvot published of course by Feldheim(only the best!)
His book has mitzvot relevant to today(since no temple and no sanhedrin).
He lists negative commandment #179
Negative commandment: That a man should not wear a woman's garment
under that, he says this refers to clothing or ornaments... And that a man should not pluck out white hairs from dark hairs. from his head or beard.
By rabbinical law, a man is not allowed to allowed to remove hair from his armpits or pubic hair. Whoever removes it from a place where generally none by a woman removes it, is violating this and deserves lashes. It is permissable to remove the hair from other areas with a scissors.
So. I guess if you want to go by the general principle, a jewish man shouldn't be plucking hairs because it's an effeminate thing to do. But from a legal standpoint, it's usually permitted, moreso with scissors than plucking.
So
what is clear from that, is you can't pluck white hairs from dark hairs, on the head or beard. And you can't cut even with scissors, pubic hair or armpit hair.
Assuming the translation is right and you trust the words to the letter, it means you can even cut white hairs from dark hairs(but not pluck)!
Thing is though, there is another commandment relevant to hair, to do with not using a razor against the face
Regarding tattoos
Chafetz Chaim lists it as -ve #163 Not tattooed marks in one's flesh.
he quotes
Leviticus 19:28
"Do not lacerate your bodies for the dead, and do not tattoo yourselves. I am the LORD."
A tattoo is an incision which is filled with ink or some "other" colouring..
Note- I don't think any of these things are based on scripture , they are from the oral law, but scripture either hints at them or says them expicitly. It is misleading!
Not so related to tattoos, but the chafetz chaim lists as #28, quoting
Deut 14:1 is not to gash yourself in idol worship.
So I guess if that was the whole story then you're allowed to gash yourself if it isn't idol worship and you don't put ink in!!! Though perhaps that wouldn't be in line with the general principle of not harming yourself..
-
Thank you QQ. It's interesting that Judaism touches on detailed aspects of people's everyday lives like that. It involves the smallest things that remind someone following that religion that they're worshipping God, even the hair on their head. In that sense all those details of rules are rather beautiful.
-
Thank you QQ. It's interesting that Judaism touches on detailed aspects of people's everyday lives like that. It involves the smallest things that remind someone following that religion that they're worshipping G-d, even the hair on their head. In that sense all those details of rules are rather beautiful.
Apparently there are all en-compassing philosophies behind various commandments..
These would perhaps be more "beautiful" than a system of reminders.
In regards to men not plucking out grey hairs or cutting pubic or armpit hair..I think men not being effeminate is more important in itself than a mere reminder! Some -ve commandments like that one are so easily kept that you can keep them without knowing it, so those are not really reminders.
The ultimate reminder is circumcision! Reminding us that we are part of the jewish nation.