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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: muman613 on January 27, 2009, 08:44:37 PM
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From FOX News @ http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,483477,00.html
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Still worried that the Large Hadron Collider will create a black hole that will destroy the Earth when it's finally switched on this summer?
Um, well, you may have a point.
Three physicists have reexamined the math surrounding the creation of microscopic black holes in the Switzerland-based LHC, the world's largest particle collider, and determined that they won't simply evaporate in a millisecond as had previously been predicted.
Rather, Roberto Casadio of the University of Bologna in Italy and Sergio Fabi and Benjamin Harms of the University of Alabama say mini black holes could exist for much longer — perhaps even more than a second, a relative eternity in particle colliders, where most objects decay much faster.
Under such long-lived conditions, it becomes a race between how fast a black hole can decay — and how fast it can gobble up matter to grow bigger and prevent itself from decaying.
Casadio, Fabi and Harms think the black hole would lose out, and pass through the Earth or out of the atmosphere before it got to be a problem.
"We conclude that ... the growth of black holes to catastrophic size does not seem possible. Nonetheless, it remains true that the expected decay times are much longer (and possibly >> 1 second) than is typically predicted by other models," the three state in a brief paper posted at the scientific discussion Web site ArXiv.org.
FoxNews.com can think of a few other things that didn't seem possible once — the theory of continental drift, the fact that rocks fall from the sky, the notion that the Earth revolves around the sun, the idea that scientists could be horribly wrong.
We're also wondering how often the LHC might create individual black holes, since longer-lived ones have a greater chance of merging with each other, and, um, well, see ya.
If the worst comes to pass, and there's now a slightly greater chance that it might, at least it might explain why we've never heard from extraterrestrial civilizations: Maybe they built Large Hadron Colliders of their own.
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Wow, what a comforting article Muman! Of course it is entirely possible that this experiment could create a black hole that could grow to a catastrophic size in a matter of a little more than a second. When you think that a black hole the size of Los Angeles can suck up entire solar systems, it is not too far fetched to believe that in a little over one second, a black hole can grow large enough to such up the entire earth, (which is microscopic dust compared to solar masses).
It seems to me that they may be experimenting with something that could very easily get out of hand.
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We have had a Collider here on Long Island in Brookhaven Lab for years. Its smaller than the one in your article I think Brookhaven's is about 2 miles long. The same dire warnings circulated when they started using it and its been in use now for years now without a problem. Brookhaven Labs is located on the land that was once Camp Upton.
http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/
http://www.bnl.gov/world/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Upton
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None of these Doomsday predictions is supported even slightly by any real science...its all media hype to get headlines
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None of these Doomsday predictions is supported even slightly by any real science...its all media hype to get headlines
From the article:
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"We conclude that ... the growth of black holes to catastrophic size does not seem possible. Nonetheless, it remains true that the expected decay times are much longer (and possibly >> 1 second) than is typically predicted by other models," the three state in a brief paper posted at the scientific discussion Web site ArXiv.org.
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None of these Doomsday predictions is supported even slightly by any real science...its all media hype to get headlines
From the article:
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"We conclude that ... the growth of black holes to catastrophic size does not seem possible. Nonetheless, it remains true that the expected decay times are much longer (and possibly >> 1 second) than is typically predicted by other models," the three state in a brief paper posted at the scientific discussion Web site ArXiv.org.
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From what I have discussed with some friends who work in the Field....these so called concerns are merely a way for the writers to grab headlines...very much like the completely disproven link between cholesterol and Alzheimer's Disease. I do understand why people could be worried because of reading this kind of paper BUT IT REALLY HAS NO REAL CHANCE OF BEING TRUE.
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Boy, I feel much better now.
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Boy, I feel much better now.
Yeah me too ;D
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Ymach Shemam veZikhram to those who are playing with Humanity's future. May HaShem deliver us from the danger. If they knew everything about Nature, and were so sure there is no danger, then they wouldn't need the Collider at all!!!
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Ymach Shemam veZikhram to those who are playing with Humanity's future. May HaShem deliver us from the danger. If they knew everything about Nature, and were so sure there is no danger, then they wouldn't need the Collider at all!!!
The research being done is simply the latest in our quest to understand our world. This type of technology will someday become an inexhaustible clean form of energy and allow for a safer world in many other ways as well. it can seem a bit on the weird side if a person is not familiar with it. But every other advance was seen in this way before it became widespread.
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Ymach Shemam veZikhram to those who are playing with Humanity's future. May HaShem deliver us from the danger. If they knew everything about Nature, and were so sure there is no danger, then they wouldn't need the Collider at all!!!
The research being done is simply the latest in our quest to understand our world. This type of technology will someday become an inexhaustible clean form of energy and allow for a safer world in many other ways as well. it can seem a bit on the weird side if a person is not familiar with it. But every other advance was seen in this way before it became widespread.
Yup, like the Nuclear bomb, the Neutron Bomb, etc., etc.
Science is a double edged sword... One must be prepared for both the positive and the negative impact of any technology.
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Very interesting article, but I think we have vastly more to fear from the human black hole which already exists, and occupies the Oval Office as we speak, than possible smaller black holes.
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a small controlled black hole needs to be sent towards Saudi Arabia, small enough that it can suck this state into oblivion.
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From FOX News @ http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,483477,00.html
<snip>
We're also wondering how often the LHC might create individual black holes, since longer-lived ones have a greater chance of merging with each other, and, um, well, see ya.
If the worst comes to pass, and there's now a slightly greater chance that it might, at least it might explain why we've never heard from extraterrestrial civilizations: Maybe they built Large Hadron Colliders of their own.
"
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Ymach Shemam veZikhram to those who are playing with Humanity's future. May HaShem deliver us from the danger. If they knew everything about Nature, and were so sure there is no danger, then they wouldn't need the Collider at all!!!
The research being done is simply the latest in our quest to understand our world. This type of technology will someday become an inexhaustible clean form of energy and allow for a safer world in many other ways as well. it can seem a bit on the weird side if a person is not familiar with it. But every other advance was seen in this way before it became widespread.
Yup, like the Nuclear bomb, the Neutron Bomb, etc., etc.
Science is a double edged sword... One must be prepared for both the positive and the negative impact of any technology.
It is not science that has a positive and negative impact but the way humanity chooses to use the science. I am not a physicist so I do not claim to be an expert on supercolliders. But I have seen the media report on things that I do know about and the absolute bull excrement coming out of their mouths was unbelievable. So excuse me for not basing my opinion of this on "news" reports.
Very interesting article, but I think we have vastly more to fear from the human black hole which already exists, and occupies the Oval Office as we speak, than possible smaller black holes.
:::D Now THAT I will agree with!
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Ymach Shemam veZikhram to those who are playing with Humanity's future. May HaShem deliver us from the danger. If they knew everything about Nature, and were so sure there is no danger, then they wouldn't need the Collider at all!!!
The research being done is simply the latest in our quest to understand our world. This type of technology will someday become an inexhaustible clean form of energy and allow for a safer world in many other ways as well. it can seem a bit on the weird side if a person is not familiar with it. But every other advance was seen in this way before it became widespread.
How is THIS going to give us a inexhaustible clean form of energy?
Boy... if I had a dollar for every time I heard that.
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Whether or not it does swallow the earth, it is an insane experiment, I have watched a 2hour documentary on black holes, and these things are unpredictable phenomenons, its nothing to experiment with. At least not yet. They think that they can make time travel, that's how insane this is.
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Whether or not it does swallow the earth, it is an insane experiment, I have watched a 2hour documentary on black holes, and these things are unpredictable phenomenons, its nothing to experiment with. At least not yet. They think that they can make time travel, that's how insane this is.
If they can make time travel... Id like to be the first to get out of this era.
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Whether or not it does swallow the earth, it is an insane experiment, I have watched a 2hour documentary on black holes, and these things are unpredictable phenomenons, its nothing to experiment with. At least not yet. They think that they can make time travel, that's how insane this is.
If they can make time travel... Id like to be the first to get out of this era.
I hear you.
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Drop me off in 1949!
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I love these colliders. Let's do this and find out what happens. :)
I think it'll be awesome when we see how much new information comes out of this.
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I love these colliders. Let's do this and find out what happens. :)
I think it'll be awesome when we see how much new information comes out of this.
Just no black holes okay!? :::D
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I love these colliders. Let's do this and find out what happens. :)
I think it'll be awesome when we see how much new information comes out of this.
Just no black holes okay!? :::D
It might be good if there are tiny black holes that close up quickly. They could yield more information possibly.
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Remember that Scientists are only human beings and human beings have failings. Just because the initial experiments worked doesnt mean that what is observed will be reproduceable. Remember the Cornell announcement of Nuclear Fusion which tuned out to be bunk. Also remember that NASA put the best and the brightest to work on the space shuttle and already 3 or 4 have blown up in flight. I trust nobody but Hashem and am wary of people messing with the fabric of creation.
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Remember that Scientists are only human beings and human beings have failings. Just because the initial experiments worked doesnt mean that what is observed will be reproduceable. Remember the Cornell announcement of Nuclear Fusion which tuned out to be bunk. Also remember that NASA put the best and the brightest to work on the space shuttle and already 3 or 4 have blown up in flight. I trust nobody but Hashem and am wary of people messing with the fabric of creation.
Science unlike religion isn't about absolutes, it's about getting closer to the truth as more knowledge is gained.
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Hey you guys... I'll make a bet with you. 10 bucks says it WONT create a black hole that will engulf the earth.
Its win-win for me. If it doesn't I get 10 bucks... and if the earth does dissapear... I wont be around to have to pay anything!!!!
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Hey you guys... I'll make a bet with you. 10 bucks says it WONT create a black hole that will engulf the earth.
Its win-win for me. If it doesn't I get 10 bucks... and if the earth does dissapear... I wont be around to have to pay anything!!!!
And if the earth doesnt explode it will make the Scientists head larger and they will be emboldened to become more reckless with nature.
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Hey you guys... I'll make a bet with you. 10 bucks says it WONT create a black hole that will engulf the earth.
Its win-win for me. If it doesn't I get 10 bucks... and if the earth does dissapear... I wont be around to have to pay anything!!!!
And if the earth doesnt explode it will make the Scientists head larger and they will be emboldened to become more reckless with nature.
Does Judaism allow for the earth to explode? I mean could that fit in with a Jewish worldview? I thought Israel was eternal.
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Hey you guys... I'll make a bet with you. 10 bucks says it WONT create a black hole that will engulf the earth.
Its win-win for me. If it doesn't I get 10 bucks... and if the earth does dissapear... I wont be around to have to pay anything!!!!
And if the earth doesnt explode it will make the Scientists head larger and they will be emboldened to become more reckless with nature.
Does Judaism allow for the earth to explode? I mean could that fit in with a Jewish worldview? I thought Israel was eternal.
This is true... I dont think the earth will explode... But there are other ways we can suffer for the deeds of the scientists. If Hashem has to perform a miracle to save the world he will.
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Hey you guys... I'll make a bet with you. 10 bucks says it WONT create a black hole that will engulf the earth.
Its win-win for me. If it doesn't I get 10 bucks... and if the earth does dissapear... I wont be around to have to pay anything!!!!
And if the earth doesnt explode it will make the Scientists head larger and they will be emboldened to become more reckless with nature.
Does Judaism allow for the earth to explode? I mean could that fit in with a Jewish worldview? I thought Israel was eternal.
This is true... I dont think the earth will explode... But there are other ways we can suffer for the deeds of the scientists. If Hashem has to perform a miracle to save the world he will.
Technically, the world would IMPLODE. The black hole would become so heavy it would sink to the center of the earth, then suck the earth in from the inside. What we'd be left with is a black hole about the size of a golf ball. Not sure if it would suck in the moon too, or if the moon would simply orbit the golf ball sized black hole.
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Hey you guys... I'll make a bet with you. 10 bucks says it WONT create a black hole that will engulf the earth.
Its win-win for me. If it doesn't I get 10 bucks... and if the earth does dissapear... I wont be around to have to pay anything!!!!
And if the earth doesnt explode it will make the Scientists head larger and they will be emboldened to become more reckless with nature.
Does Judaism allow for the earth to explode? I mean could that fit in with a Jewish worldview? I thought Israel was eternal.
This is true... I dont think the earth will explode... But there are other ways we can suffer for the deeds of the scientists. If Hashem has to perform a miracle to save the world he will.
Technically, the world would IMPLODE. The black hole would become so heavy it would sink to the center of the earth, then suck the earth in from the inside. What we'd be left with is a black hole about the size of a golf ball. Not sure if it would suck in the moon too, or if the moon would simply orbit the golf ball sized black hole.
Like I said, we are not ready to experiment with something like a worm hole. We need to do more research.
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Hey you guys... I'll make a bet with you. 10 bucks says it WONT create a black hole that will engulf the earth.
Its win-win for me. If it doesn't I get 10 bucks... and if the earth does dissapear... I wont be around to have to pay anything!!!!
And if the earth doesnt explode it will make the Scientists head larger and they will be emboldened to become more reckless with nature.
Does Judaism allow for the earth to explode? I mean could that fit in with a Jewish worldview? I thought Israel was eternal.
This is true... I dont think the earth will explode... But there are other ways we can suffer for the deeds of the scientists. If Hashem has to perform a miracle to save the world he will.
Technically, the world would IMPLODE. The black hole would become so heavy it would sink to the center of the earth, then suck the earth in from the inside. What we'd be left with is a black hole about the size of a golf ball. Not sure if it would suck in the moon too, or if the moon would simply orbit the golf ball sized black hole.
Actually.. I remember watching something about this... and they assumed that the moon would just continue to orbit the earth.
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Whether or not it does swallow the earth, it is an insane experiment, I have watched a 2hour documentary on black holes, and these things are unpredictable phenomenons, its nothing to experiment with. At least not yet. They think that they can make time travel, that's how insane this is.
Stange as it may seem, Time travel does not violate any of the laws of nature. What is missing is the energy source and some of the hardware that is required to protect a human during the transit. Look up some of the new Nova shows on the topic, they are very good.
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I will go out on a limb and suggest that time travel will not be possible. If time travel is possible it will negate much of our understanding of Hashem, that he created this linear world of process and a second world of being. How can something exist before it was born or created? How can something which is dead exist in the future? It makes no sense to my understanding.
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Hey you guys... I'll make a bet with you. 10 bucks says it WONT create a black hole that will engulf the earth.
Its win-win for me. If it doesn't I get 10 bucks... and if the earth does dissapear... I wont be around to have to pay anything!!!!
And if the earth doesnt explode it will make the Scientists head larger and they will be emboldened to become more reckless with nature.
Does Judaism allow for the earth to explode? I mean could that fit in with a Jewish worldview? I thought Israel was eternal.
This is true... I dont think the earth will explode... But there are other ways we can suffer for the deeds of the scientists. If Hashem has to perform a miracle to save the world he will.
Technically, the world would IMPLODE. The black hole would become so heavy it would sink to the center of the earth, then suck the earth in from the inside. What we'd be left with is a black hole about the size of a golf ball. Not sure if it would suck in the moon too, or if the moon would simply orbit the golf ball sized black hole.
Like I said, we are not ready to experiment with something like a worm hole. We need to do more research.
Black holes and worm holes are two very different things. A wormhole is a shortcut though normal space that would allow for very fast transit between two distant points in spacetime. A black hole is a gap in the fabric of spacetime caused by the gravitational colapse of a large stellar object. very small black holes are also formed on a regular basis in nature by the spontaneous decay of exotic particles.
The LHC will allow for the study of exotic particles and energy in a very controlled way. Any of the energies or particles that are created will dissipate very quickly (fractions of a second) and pose no danger. Interestlyly, if this type of reaction could be sustained, it would allow for the use of vacuum or zero point energy as an energy source. As this type of energy is contained within the very fabric of spacetime, it is potently an inexhaustible power source.
Additionally, The LHC will give us a very good picture of the multiverse on the very small scale. This could lead to vast advances in computers, and other tech.
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I will go out on a limb and suggest that time travel will not be possible. If time travel is possible it will negate much of our understanding of Hashem, that he created this linear world of process and a second world of being. How can something exist before it was born or created? How can something which is dead exist in the future? It makes no sense to my understanding.
We all time travel already. Time flows at a faster or slower rate depending on where you are located and the speed at which you are traveling. this happens on a very small but mesureable scale, but it has been proven.
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I will go out on a limb and suggest that time travel will not be possible. If time travel is possible it will negate much of our understanding of Hashem, that he created this linear world of process and a second world of being. How can something exist before it was born or created? How can something which is dead exist in the future? It makes no sense to my understanding.
We all time travel already. Time flows at a faster or slower rate depending on where you are located and the speed at which you are traveling. this happens on a very small but mesureable scale, but it has been proven.
Yes, only in the forward direction... Have you ever travelled back in time? I haven't...
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I will go out on a limb and suggest that time travel will not be possible. If time travel is possible it will negate much of our understanding of Hashem, that he created this linear world of process and a second world of being. How can something exist before it was born or created? How can something which is dead exist in the future? It makes no sense to my understanding.
We all time travel already. Time flows at a faster or slower rate depending on where you are located and the speed at which you are traveling. this happens on a very small but mesureable scale, but it has been proven.
Yes, only in the forward direction... Have you ever travelled back in time? I haven't...
It is resonable to asume that the correct response to this is yes...some of the newest studies on dark energy and matter sugest mirco jumps back and forth.
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I think it would be hilarious if they put up a sign in a research room at the supercollider that said "Caution: Doomsday in Progress".
This is true... I dont think the earth will explode... But there are other ways we can suffer for the deeds of the scientists. If Hashem has to perform a miracle to save the world he will.
There are many ways we can benefit from these "deeds" as well.
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I think it would be hilarious if they put up a sign in a research room at the supercollider that said "Caution: Doomsday in Progress".
There is a sign in the Norad complex that says "Stargate Command". Its realy a coat closet
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I think it would be hilarious if they put up a sign in a research room at the supercollider that said "Caution: Doomsday in Progress".
There is a sign in the Norad complex that says "Stargate Command". Its realy a coat closet
Great :)
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Let's hope a black hole will soon swallow the butcher Gayhud Holemert (yimach schmo vezichro).