JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: zachor_ve_kavod on February 24, 2009, 07:32:19 PM
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There may be some on this forum who do not like Dennis Prager. Some of you may have heard the debate between Prager and Rabbi Kahane, where Rabbi Kahane really killed him. That was a while ago, and I think Prager has grown up quite a bit since then. I still find some of what he says to be Left of me, but he is overall a thoughtful and morally grounded individual (far more so than the other radio commentators).
In this 7 part set of videos on youtube, he explains some of the Torah, teaching some of the deeper meanings to a group of listeners (mostly Gentiles). The purpose of his speech is to show how America's morality is grounded in Judeo-Christian values (values, not theology).
I'm listening to the fourth part right now, and so far, what I've heard him say is pretty standard. It's how he ties Torah issues to modern political issues that is what is of interest to me.
Here is the first part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6MWX7DF3Ng
He makes small talk for the first few minutes, which is kind of pointless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6MWX7DF3Ng
It gets going around 6:25 minutes in (or so).
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Their is no question he is an intelligent man, but so are many other self hating jews. He can never be forgiven for what he did to rabbi kahane. That is in addition to the fact that he is a fake phony fraud.
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All I know about Dennis Prager is that he has a talkshow during the day. But I thought he supported Israel and is against Islam...is that not the case? I'm interested in knowing how he's a fraud.
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I remember his saying on Bill O'Reilly's show, or on some other show that he was for a fakestinian state.
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Their is no question he is an intelligent man, but so are many other self hating jews. He can never be forgiven for what he did to rabbi kahane. That is in addition to the fact that he is a fake phony fraud.
Let's be clear about what he did to Rabbi Kahane: He disagreed with him. He was wrong, is that a sin? He also debated him, which was something that many of the Rabbi's opponents were too cowardly to do.
Also, you should remember something that Rabbi Kahane himself said many times: "Those who cannot debate, instead defame. And defamation is the refuge of non-thinkers." So, I don't think it is right for you to defame Dennis Prager because of a disagreement he had with Rabbi Kahane 25 years ago.
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Good point, Zachor.
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Their is no question he is an intelligent man, but so are many other self hating jews. He can never be forgiven for what he did to rabbi kahane. That is in addition to the fact that he is a fake phony fraud.
Let's be clear about what he did to Rabbi Kahane: He disagreed with him. He was wrong, is that a sin? He also debated him, which was something that many of the Rabbi's opponents were too cowardly to do.
Also, you should remember something that Rabbi Kahane himself said many times: "Those who cannot debate, instead defame. And defamation is the refuge of non-thinkers." So, I don't think it is right for you to defame Dennis Prager because of a disagreement he had with Rabbi Kahane 25 years ago.
The problem is not that he debated Rabbi Kahane, it's what he said during the debates. He attacked Rabbi Kahane and said his ideas weren't jewish etc..... It's the content that bothers me.
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Their is no question he is an intelligent man, but so are many other self hating jews. He can never be forgiven for what he did to rabbi kahane. That is in addition to the fact that he is a fake phony fraud.
Let's be clear about what he did to Rabbi Kahane: He disagreed with him. He was wrong, is that a sin? He also debated him, which was something that many of the Rabbi's opponents were too cowardly to do.
Also, you should remember something that Rabbi Kahane himself said many times: "Those who cannot debate, instead defame. And defamation is the refuge of non-thinkers." So, I don't think it is right for you to defame Dennis Prager because of a disagreement he had with Rabbi Kahane 25 years ago.
The problem is not that he debated Rabbi Kahane, it's what he said during the debates. He attacked Rabbi Kahane and said his ideas weren't jewish etc..... It's the content that bothers me.
Correct. He said, "your anthropomorphic understanding of G-d is pagan" or something like that. I haven't watched the videos posted by Zachor, so I can't comment on them. On his radio show, it seems like he is usually concerned with morality which is a good thing.
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Their is no question he is an intelligent man, but so are many other self hating jews. He can never be forgiven for what he did to rabbi kahane. That is in addition to the fact that he is a fake phony fraud.
Let's be clear about what he did to Rabbi Kahane: He disagreed with him. He was wrong, is that a sin? He also debated him, which was something that many of the Rabbi's opponents were too cowardly to do.
Also, you should remember something that Rabbi Kahane himself said many times: "Those who cannot debate, instead defame. And defamation is the refuge of non-thinkers." So, I don't think it is right for you to defame Dennis Prager because of a disagreement he had with Rabbi Kahane 25 years ago.
The problem is not that he debated Rabbi Kahane, it's what he said during the debates. He attacked Rabbi Kahane and said his ideas weren't jewish etc..... It's the content that bothers me.
Correct. He said, "your anthropomorphic understanding of G-d is pagan" or something like that. I haven't watched the videos posted by Zachor, so I can't comment on them. On his radio show, it seems like he is usually concerned with morality which is a good thing.
Moshe, you are right. I heard him say that too. It's true that Prager tries to come across that he is conservative, but when pressed, he clearly voices his support for evil causes.
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Their is no question he is an intelligent man, but so are many other self hating jews. He can never be forgiven for what he did to rabbi kahane. That is in addition to the fact that he is a fake phony fraud.
Let's be clear about what he did to Rabbi Kahane: He disagreed with him. He was wrong, is that a sin? He also debated him, which was something that many of the Rabbi's opponents were too cowardly to do.
Also, you should remember something that Rabbi Kahane himself said many times: "Those who cannot debate, instead defame. And defamation is the refuge of non-thinkers." So, I don't think it is right for you to defame Dennis Prager because of a disagreement he had with Rabbi Kahane 25 years ago.
On the subject of defaming, he called Rabbi Kahane a Jewish fascist which is definitely an example of defaming. I agree that at least he is not a coward and is not afraid to debate his opponents.
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He called Rabbi Kahane a "Jewish Fascist" and put up a straw-man's argument that the belief that G-d literally appeared at Sinai is an "anthropomorphic view of G-d, and thus paganism". That clearly isn't in line with what we at JTF believe.
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If you listen to him now compared to him 25 years ago, he is so much more to the right than he used to be. I recommend that you watch the videos I posted on this thread and make up your own mind. People change. 15 years ago, I was much more on the Left than I am today. I think this is actually pretty common.
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If you listen to him now compared to him 25 years ago, he is so much more to the right than he used to be. I recommend that you watch the videos I posted on this thread and make up your own mind. People change. 15 years ago, I was much more on the Left than I am today. I think this is actually pretty common.
That is a valid point too. Before I heard JTF, I was a leftist. The problem is that Prager is still no good. If this shmuck went on Oreillys show and called for a fakestininian state, what does that say about him?
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Dennis Prager is a little preferable to Michael Faggot, but that is not saying much. They are both egotistical phony rightists as DownwithIslam said. HaRav Meir David Kahane zt"l positively pwned Gayger in a debate and the mincing little homosexual will never get over that.
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Dennis Prager is a little preferable to Michael Faggot, but that is not saying much. They are both egotistical phony rightists as DownwithIslam said. HaRav Meir David Kahane zt"l positively pwned Gayger in a debate and the mincing little homosexual will never get over that.
I have so much to learn. Michael who?
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Nobody yet has commented on the actual video I linked. Did you notice that? You guys are commenting on how bad Prager is (or as C.F. said "Gayger"), or how bad he was.
Let's assume that you are all correct and Prager is this horrible Leftist self-hating Jew. That still doesn't tell me what you think of the merits of his ideas on this video. Can you maybe put aside your anger for a few minutes and think about what he says in this video.
I wanted to discuss his ideas, not have a discussion about his worth as a human being.
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He Admitted he didn't believe the Torah literally. There is no going back from that.
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He Admitted he didn't believe the Torah literally. There is no going back from that.
On the contrary, he said the opposite in this video.
Exuse me. To be more accurate, he said that he now believes that the Torah is the word of G-d, or something to that effect. That is not quite the same as literal, but it is important to recognize.
At the time of the debate with Rabbi Kahane, he said the Torah was divinely inspired but written by men. Now he says it is the word of G-d.
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Which is why I say he is slightly preferable to Michael Faggot. But he is still a pseudoright phony--just a somewhat more "intellectual" one.
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I agree with C.F. Even though he may be slightly more preferable, I can still never forgive him what he said to Rabbi Kahane in that interview, and then he got assassinated a couple years later. May G-d bless this giant and hero, May he rest in peace. I still can't believe why Prager called him a "Jewish Fascist." This was very upsetting to me when I heard him in this interview. Kahane wanted only the best for the Jewish people, to call him a Fascist because he had righteous moral and Torah beliefs is beyond all words. This is another reason why all Jews need to belong in Israel under a Kahanist run government, to prevent the label "Jewish Fascism" being used.
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I agree with C.F. Even though he may be slightly more preferable, I can still never forgive him what he said to Rabbi Kahane in that interview, and then he got assassinated a couple years later. May G-d bless this giant and hero, May he rest in peace. I still can't believe why Prager called him a "Jewish Fascist." This was very upsetting to me when I heard him in this interview. Kahane wanted only the best for the Jewish people, to call him a Fascist because he had righteous moral and Torah beliefs is beyond all words. This is another reason why all Jews need to belong in Israel under a Kahanist run government, to prevent the label "Jewish Fascism" being used.
Well, I don't know about you, but I can remember plenty of things that I said 25 years ago, that I wish I could take back. I never hear Prager attack the right now, only the Left. I sent him an email asking him if he still believes what he thought about Rabbi Kahane at the time of their debate. I haven't heard back yet. Maybe you should also send him an email asking him the same question if you're interested.
I personally don't care how people view Dennis Prager. I just think it is unfortunate that people here can't seem to differentiate someone like Prager, who is a conservative and a Torah Jew, from a typical Woody Allen type Leftist. Can you guys really not see a difference? He's not as right wing as we are, very few people are, by the way.
Also, I don't think all of this bitterness and venom is going to help us, ultimately. We should save our anger for truly evil people. Not everyone who was Left of Rabbi Kahane is a truly evil person. How can we be taken seriously if we show the same hostility to someone like Dennis Prager, as we would show to a real Leftist self-hater?
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I agree with C.F. Even though he may be slightly more preferable, I can still never forgive him what he said to Rabbi Kahane in that interview, and then he got assassinated a couple years later. May G-d bless this giant and hero, May he rest in peace. I still can't believe why Prager called him a "Jewish Fascist." This was very upsetting to me when I heard him in this interview. Kahane wanted only the best for the Jewish people, to call him a Fascist because he had righteous moral and Torah beliefs is beyond all words. This is another reason why all Jews need to belong in Israel under a Kahanist run government, to prevent the label "Jewish Fascism" being used.
Well, I don't know about you, but I can remember plenty of things that I said 25 years ago, that I wish I could take back. I never hear Prager attack the right now, only the Left. I sent him an email asking him if he still believes what he thought about Rabbi Kahane at the time of their debate. I haven't heard back yet. Maybe you should also send him an email asking him the same question if you're interested.
I personally don't care how people view Dennis Prager. I just think it is unfortunate that people here can't seem to differentiate someone like Prager, who is a conservative and a Torah Jew, from a typical Woody Allen type Leftist. Can you guys really not see a difference? He's not as right wing as we are, very few people are, by the way.
Also, I don't think all of this bitterness and venom is going to help us, ultimately. We should save our anger for truly evil people. Not everyone who was Left of Rabbi Kahane is a truly evil person. How can we be taken seriously if we show the same hostility to someone like Dennis Prager, as we would show to a real Leftist self-hater?
I agree with you Zachor. A wise man learns from everyone and changes his position when he learns he was wrong. I dont hold people to what they said years ago. Only six years ago I was a democrat and I was happy with Clinton. Now I realize the error of my way, I did teshuva and now I am observant in my Jewish religion.
I think we should be able to forgive people and not hold a grudge, especially Jews. It is a mitzvah to not go around as a tale bearer against your people, and to not hold a grudge.
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Well, I don't know about you, but I can remember plenty of things that I said 25 years ago, that I wish I could take back. I never hear Prager attack the right now, only the Left. I sent him an email asking him if he still believes what he thought about Rabbi Kahane at the time of their debate. I haven't heard back yet. Maybe you should also send him an email asking him the same question if you're interested.
I personally don't care how people view Dennis Prager. I just think it is unfortunate that people here can't seem to differentiate someone like Prager, who is a conservative and a Torah Jew, from a typical Woody Allen type Leftist. Can you guys really not see a difference? He's not as right wing as we are, very few people are, by the way.
Also, I don't think all of this bitterness and venom is going to help us, ultimately. We should save our anger for truly evil people. Not everyone who was Left of Rabbi Kahane is a truly evil person. How can we be taken seriously if we show the same hostility to someone like Dennis Prager, as we would show to a real Leftist self-hater?
Answer me this: has this so-called "Torah Jew" ever apologized for the hideous statements he made of HaRav Kahane (zt"l)?
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Well, I don't know about you, but I can remember plenty of things that I said 25 years ago, that I wish I could take back. I never hear Prager attack the right now, only the Left. I sent him an email asking him if he still believes what he thought about Rabbi Kahane at the time of their debate. I haven't heard back yet. Maybe you should also send him an email asking him the same question if you're interested.
I personally don't care how people view Dennis Prager. I just think it is unfortunate that people here can't seem to differentiate someone like Prager, who is a conservative and a Torah Jew, from a typical Woody Allen type Leftist. Can you guys really not see a difference? He's not as right wing as we are, very few people are, by the way.
Also, I don't think all of this bitterness and venom is going to help us, ultimately. We should save our anger for truly evil people. Not everyone who was Left of Rabbi Kahane is a truly evil person. How can we be taken seriously if we show the same hostility to someone like Dennis Prager, as we would show to a real Leftist self-hater?
Answer me this: has this so-called "Torah Jew" ever apologized for the hideous statements he made of HaRav Kahane (zt"l)?
I don't know whether Prager has ever apologized for whatever hideous statements you are referring to. What were these hideous statements? As far as I can recall, all he said was that Rabbi Kahane does not represent true Judaism. He was wrong, but the statement is not defamatory, it's an opinion. Why do you put the term "Torah Jew" in quotation marks? Are you saying he's not a Torah Jew?
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To my knowledge Prager is a "Conservative" Jew, which is NOT Torah Judaism. "Conservative" Judaism is barely one step above Deformed Judaism.
He said that "Rabbi Kahane is a Jewish fascist". That is completely unforgivable, especially considering he has never apologized for it. Prager is a mainstream media "conservative" along the lines of Michael Faggot or Bill O'Reilly--he presents a sanitized, politically-correct version of rightism that passes muster with the leftist censors of the Establishment. Prager is only out to fatten his belly by selling books and getting on shows, not to promote Torah.
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If he is studying Torah and teaching it and he is truly learning then I say "Kol HaKavod!"
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Dennis Prager is a little preferable to Michael Faggot, but that is not saying much. They are both egotistical phony rightists as DownwithIslam said. HaRav Meir David Kahane zt"l positively pwned Gayger in a debate and the mincing little homosexual will never get over that.
Is Prager a homosexual ?
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Dennis Prager is a goof. He is just another talk radio hack who is full of himself and at times something else.
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I don't know. It was just a spoof of his name. He once wrote an anti-homosexuality argument for use by high school debate clubs, but who knows how sincere he was. On the other hand, there is some genuine evidence that Michael Faggot is.
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I don't know. It was just a spoof of his name. He once wrote an anti-homosexuality argument for use by high school debate clubs, but who knows how sincere he was. On the other hand, there is some genuine evidence that Michael Faggot is.
Savage just pretends to be a conservative when the mic is on. Prager just heard Rush Limbaugh one day and thought he found his calling.
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It is lashon hara to spread rumors but everyone already knows that. I dont listen to Prager and I dont really get why everyone talks so much about talk radio. Basically I support anyone who devotes some time to Judaism. Today I had a long talk with my mother, who is staunchly a Conservative Jew, no matter how much I try to make her see that Orthodoxy is really the only fully reasonable form of Judaism. I am trying to convince her of the concept of Techiyas HaMatim which is not taught in conservative 'temples'. I am patient with all who are really seeking the truth, as my mother most certainly is in this time of distress.
It is said that we should not judge others harshly {at all} unless we know what it is like to be in their position {in life}. I will judge favorably based on Zachors interest in this video {which I honestly have not watched yet}.
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I only mentioned Conservative Judaism in order to point out that strictly speaking, Prager is not a Torah Jew. I would not really care about him one way or another if it weren't for disgusting insults against HaRav Kahane (zt"l).
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In regards to talk radio, it is important to discuss it because it is a farce. JTF is a true grass roots cause. Radio is a cash machine by morons who play golf, own poodles, and send Christmas cards to Alan Colmes.
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In regards to talk radio, it is important to discuss it because it is a farce. JTF is a true grass roots cause. Radio is a cash machine by morons who play golf, own poodles, and send Christmas cards to Alan Colmes.
And have sex with Allen Ginsberg and later on deny it.
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I thought Savage just skinny dipped with Ginsberg? But we are way off topic on this one. This is more info than most care to know. ;D
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Oh yeah, he only skinny-dipped with the biggest faggot activist of that era. Mmm-hmm. And Bill Clinton did not have sexual relations.
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Oh yeah, he only skinny-dipped with the biggest faggot activist of that era. Mmm-hmm. And Bill Clinton did not have sexual relations.
Come on, C.F. I'm trying to protect his poodle and his defense fund to save free speech. ;D
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I don't know. It was just a spoof of his name. He once wrote an anti-homosexuality argument for use by high school debate clubs, but who knows how sincere he was. On the other hand, there is some genuine evidence that Michael Faggot is.
Fine. But keep in mind if you have a legitimate argument against an individual, it's weakened by what could be considered juvenile name calling and false accusations.
Calling Prager, "Gayger", and a "mincing little homosexual" - even in jest - undermines whatever legitimate arguments you have against him, because the truth is Prager almost certainly isn't a homo.
Earlier tonight I asked you why you censored out the words 'oral sex' from a post about Charles Barkley and you responded that it was in the interest of being chaste.
I think there's something incongruous about censoring out terms like 'oral sex' in the name of being chaste, but commonly calling people sluts, whores and faggots. Wouldn't you agree ?
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I admitted that the names were just insults for Prager. By "mincing little faggot" in Prager's case, what I meant is that this pathetic, whiny little worm actually dared to take on the intellectual and moral giant that was HaRav Kahane (zt"l), albeit in a very cheap and cowardly way. Please try not to overanalyze things. If you specifically need clarification on things I say, you can ask, but when I already explain that I just intended something as a catchy insult, I don't see what purpose is served in going on.
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My purpose was to convey the idea that perhaps we shouldn't be insulting people like Prager by falsely branding them as faggots or homosexuals (even in jest). It tends to undermine our legitimate arguments against them.
It strikes me as hypocritical that you condemn Prager for debating Rav Kahane in a 'cheap and cowardly way', while you're insulting Prager by calling him a homo.
Please don't take this critique the wrong way. I enjoy your posts and almost always agree with them. I know this is a religious forum in nature and some people might be easily offended by your liberal use of colorful insults. I'm not one of them. I admire your passion. I just think that calling Prager a homo isn't necessary and weakens otherwise reasonable arguments against him.
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Well, I don't know about you, but I can remember plenty of things that I said 25 years ago, that I wish I could take back. I never hear Prager attack the right now, only the Left. I sent him an email asking him if he still believes what he thought about Rabbi Kahane at the time of their debate. I haven't heard back yet. Maybe you should also send him an email asking him the same question if you're interested.
That's a good idea. Even though I'm only now just learning about all of this, I'll go ahead and email. I'll post back here if I get a response.
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On the other hand, there is some genuine evidence that Michael Faggot is.
I cannot figure out who you're talking about.
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OK, fine. I have no evidence that Prager is a homosexual. On the other hand, there is evidence that Wiener is.
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Judia Zionista, C.F. is referring to Michael Savage.
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Thank you Lisa! I've heard the name but am not really familiar with who he is. (Like I said, I have a lot to learn)