JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: George on May 13, 2009, 03:08:56 AM
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I was planning on applying for a job twice in a time difference of two months. The first time I used a fake name, fake address, fake phone number, entered my real qualifications, and enter my race as White. The second time I used my real name, entered the same qualifications, and entered my race as Black. I was rejected as a White applicant but accepted as a Black applicant. They gave me the interview and I got the job. Then a few weeks later the HR manager said I wasn't Black (I don't look Black at all). I responded and said I'm half Black and that I consider myself Black because race is a social construct, as the liberals say it is. They fired me and I want to sue them on the grounds that race is a social construct and that if I can identify myself as Black on the census I should be able to do so in the job market. Of course I'm not half Black and don't consider myself Black. I'll be talking to a lawyer but to those who know the law, can I win?
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I highly doubt, that you can win. I am not familiar with American law, but normally such actions work only for miniorities. The male white Christian is in every case and eternal guilty. He has to loose in court, even if he is right. Count on that.
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It seems that they all but admit to have a preference for hiring blacks. I don't know the law but I assume you can't win with that on court. But maybe you can settle the case out of course, cause as a business your former employer might be willing to pay just to a void a race related issue.
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If you can somehow provide proof that you actually are part black, you stand a good chance of winning your case. If you can't, don't even try. There is no way that a "privileged" white guy is going to be awarded anything, let alone a job that is clearly not meant for you.
By the way, just an observation. Have you noticed that African American and Affirmative Action both have that same initials AA. Coincidence......I think not!
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If you can somehow provide proof that you actually are part black, you stand a good chance of winning your case. If you can't, don't even try. There is no way that a "privileged" white guy is going to be awarded anything, let alone a job that is clearly not meant for you.
By the way, just an observation. Have you noticed that African American and Affirmative Action both have that same initials AA. Coincidence......I think not!
I know a third group with the initials AA -> Anonyme Alcoholics :::D
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you can mention this story to a news agency and see if they'll report it...It is discrimination that they didn't hire you.
Where were you applying anyway? Kentuky Fried Chicken?!
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I really hate Apefirmative Action. It's what caused me to start feeling as strongly as I do towards them. I was an ape trainer at one of my previous jobs and they kept giving them my promotion.
My sister did something similar to get an interview,she wrote down that she was American Indian then claimed she was part American Indian when questioned about it. She didn't get the job though.
If you show up in court, maybe you should show up in cornrows (I read that even white hair can be made into corn rows, it's just harder apparently).
You might also say you're as black as these pathetic guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E5JNYoDT48
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I think straight white males are going to have a tough time, from here on in.
They aren't black, hispanic, oriental,women, homosexuals... I can obviously keep going.
The feminist made men the enemy. Young women have fallen into that trap. Hook, Line and Sinker.
Affirmative action makes whites(especially men) the enemy.
Obama is making white males the enemy. Who do we think of when we think of CEOs/Wall Streeters in this country?
We have become a sick society. I feel sorry for the Mom's of little white boys. They are going to be going up against insurmountable obstacles in the future.
I feel sorry for us. We are going to have to deal with total saturation of affirmative action hires in the workforce. That alone could cause a failure of the American way of life. Stupid, lazy, evil people running the show. You only have to shop in a Wal Mart to know that or see a President who's teleprompter fails.
I was just thinking.
I work in a hospital.
This year I have not come across one white male resident, in our unit.
They are predominantly nonwhite and female.
None have been great at their job.
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Bullcat you're absolutely right that white males are being targeted.
Sometimes even nonwhites are hurt by apefirmative action though. I worked with a smart Mexican lady and she was passed up for a promotion in favor of a black too. Maybe it's because they're not considered minorities in TX, but that was just horrible.
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But Asians have similar opportunities as whites don't they ?
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But Asians have similar opportunities as whites don't they ?
In general, they work hard and pursue success seriously.
I work with this one Asian guy that's kind of dumb and a lazy butt, but most of the ones I've worked with have been serious about work and smart too.
I think as a community they've got more opportunities than whites do.
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All I gotta say is wow. I even asked Chaim on last week's Ask JTF when will affirmative action will end. This morning while working I was asking to myself where would a good decent white person can go and get a job that they are qualified for. And I said to myself areas where there is no blacks and lazy people. Maybe Bismark, or the middle of Montana.
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The only real solution to this problem is self-employment. Everyone in my family is self-employed and it has many advantages, not just freedom from discrimination. They make their own hours, don't have to tolerate nasty bosses, have more job security, and have a realistic chance to become wealthy.
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Opportunities should be open to all. Fair square and indifferent. You have the qualifications. You get to take advantage of the opportunity. No one is deserving of an opportunity based soley on race or sex. That is my gripe.
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I wonder if "black" is actually defined in law. Most people would say that if, for example, you have one black parent and one white parent, you are black. But what dilution still qualifies? 1/4? 1/8? 1/16? 1/32?
Who is to prove you don't have an African ancestor?
What next - Nuremberg racial laws to define these things?
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Anything past an octoroon might be hard to detect, which is a good reason to date people who know their family history well because those genes can pop up several generations later and express themselves and that would be quite horrible if you care about such things.
It's sad but most people I talk to don't even seem to know or care about their ethnic identity beyond "white".
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I wonder if "black" is actually defined in law. Most people would say that if, for example, you have one black parent and one white parent, you are black. But what dilution still qualifies? 1/4? 1/8? 1/16? 1/32?
Who is to prove you don't have an African ancestor?
What next - Nuremberg racial laws to define these things?
Count on that.
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I actually have a friend with a PhD from University of Pennsylvania who is having trouble finding a job. Yes, he is white and male. :o
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I really hate Apefirmative Action. It's what caused me to start feeling as strongly as I do towards them. I was an ape trainer at one of my previous jobs and they kept giving them my promotion.
My sister did something similar to get an interview,she wrote down that she was American Indian then claimed she was part American Indian when questioned about it. She didn't get the job though.
If you show up in court, maybe you should show up in cornrows (I read that even white hair can be made into corn rows, it's just harder apparently).
You might also say you're as black as these pathetic guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E5JNYoDT48
I used to be a self-hating Jewish Liberal until I was a victim of AA and was told I was "privileged and advantaged" by a white convert to Islam at U/South Florida named Dr. Larry Z. Leslie
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I really hate Apefirmative Action. It's what caused me to start feeling as strongly as I do towards them. I was an ape trainer at one of my previous jobs and they kept giving them my promotion.
My sister did something similar to get an interview,she wrote down that she was American Indian then claimed she was part American Indian when questioned about it. She didn't get the job though.
If you show up in court, maybe you should show up in cornrows (I read that even white hair can be made into corn rows, it's just harder apparently).
You might also say you're as black as these pathetic guys:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E5JNYoDT48
I used to be a self-hating Jewish Liberal until I was a victim of AA and was told I was "privileged and advantaged" by a white convert to Islam at U/South Florida named Dr. Larry Z. Leslie
USF in Tampa is a hotbed for islamic kookiness.
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I used to be a self-hating Jewish Liberal until I was a victim of AA and was told I was "privileged and advantaged" by a white convert to Islam at U/South Florida named Dr. Larry Z. Leslie
I'm glad you're not a liberal anymore, but I'm sad that something unfair like that happened to you. White Jews are often told that even though they're a minority (Jewish) that they benefit from "white skin privelege". To me that's both anti-white and anti-Semitic, but somehow liberals justify it as being tolerant and inclusive.
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I used to be a self-hating Jewish Liberal until I was a victim of AA and was told I was "privileged and advantaged" by a white convert to Islam at U/South Florida named Dr. Larry Z. Leslie
I'm glad you're not a liberal anymore, but I'm sad that something unfair like that happened to you. White Jews are often told that even though they're a minority (Jewish) that they benefit from "white skin privelege". To me that's both anti-white and anti-Semitic, but somehow liberals justify it as being tolerant and inclusive.
I mentioned what happened to me on another thread last year, so I'll re-tell briefly what happened. I had applied to grad school at USF. I had experience in the field, but I was rejected by Dr. Leslie who told me I was "privileged and advantaged" and I would never get into any school in Florida. At my old school, I was somewhat involved on a anti apartheid group and somehow they heard what happened and I was told I was not welcome in the group anymore and I was a racist. At that point, I realized that I was useful as long as I toed the line and let others less quaified than me move ahead. I finally realized what apes and self-hating Jewish liberals were.
Leslie is still at USF...he's a friend of Sami Al-Arian and he was trying to get rid of the Jewish school president, Dr, Genschaft.
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What a horrible story :(
I'm trying to search for a better job right now and it really upsets me that people who have the mentality of 3 year olds which most blacks do, would be considered over me.
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I was planning on applying for a job twice in a time difference of two months. The first time I used a fake name, fake address, fake phone number, entered my real qualifications, and enter my race as White. The second time I used my real name, entered the same qualifications, and entered my race as Black. I was rejected as a White applicant but accepted as a Black applicant. They gave me the interview and I got the job. Then a few weeks later the HR manager said I wasn't Black (I don't look Black at all). I responded and said I'm half Black and that I consider myself Black because race is a social construct, as the liberals say it is. They fired me and I want to sue them on the grounds that race is a social construct and that if I can identify myself as Black on the census I should be able to do so in the job market. Of course I'm not half Black and don't consider myself Black. I'll be talking to a lawyer but to those who know the law, can I win?
NO- the next job; You pretend that you cant hear or see, you'll get the job- you will be hired as a brain surgeon.
I am Iroquois, Portugee/Crytpo Marrano Jew-Mom/gentile-Dad and Scot. They told me they had 'enough' white people? go FIGURE. I couldnt care LESS who likes me OR who wants to 'hire me' anymore.
Screw the lawyers, you aren't black, OR ILLEGAL. You will get NO help, American, NOT in THIS country.
But, WHY do you have the name "Jim Crow?" Just out of curiosity.
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I was planning on applying for a job twice in a time difference of two months. The first time I used a fake name, fake address, fake phone number, entered my real qualifications, and enter my race as White. The second time I used my real name, entered the same qualifications, and entered my race as Black. I was rejected as a White applicant but accepted as a Black applicant. They gave me the interview and I got the job. Then a few weeks later the HR manager said I wasn't Black (I don't look Black at all). I responded and said I'm half Black and that I consider myself Black because race is a social construct, as the liberals say it is. They fired me and I want to sue them on the grounds that race is a social construct and that if I can identify myself as Black on the census I should be able to do so in the job market. Of course I'm not half Black and don't consider myself Black. I'll be talking to a lawyer but to those who know the law, can I win?
NO- the next job; You pretend that you cant hear or see, you'll get the job- you will be hired as a brain surgeon.
I am Iroquois, Portugee/Crytpo Marrano Jew-Mom/gentile-Dad and Scot. They told me they had 'enough' white people? go FIGURE. I couldnt care LESS who likes me OR who wants to 'hire me' anymore.
Screw the lawyers, you aren't black, OR ILLEGAL. You will get NO help, American, NOT in THIS country.
But, WHY do you have the name "Jim Crow?" Just out of curiosity.
Jim Crow laws were laws used by the south to deny Blacks the ability to vote. They had to prove that they had certain knowledge that they were not taught. This was used to keep the Blacks away from the voting booth...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws
The Jim Crow laws were state and local laws in the United States enacted between 1876 and 1965. They mandated de jure segregation in all public facilities, with a "separate but equal" status for black Americans and members of other non-white racial groups.
Some examples of Jim Crow laws are the segregation of public schools, public places and public transportation, and the segregation of restrooms and restaurants for whites and blacks. The U.S. military was also segregated. These Jim Crow Laws were separate from the 1800-66 Black Codes, which had also restricted the civil rights and civil liberties of African Americans. State-sponsored school segregation was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of the United States in 1954 in Brown v. Board of Education. Generally, the remaining Jim Crow laws were overruled by the Civil Rights Act of 1964[1] and the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
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Blacks were still elected to local offices in the 1880s, but the establishment Democrats were passing laws to make voter registration and elections more restrictive, with the result that participation by most blacks and many poor whites began to decrease. Starting with Mississippi in 1890, through 1910 the former Confederate states passed new constitutions or amendments that effectively disfranchised most blacks and tens of thousands of poor whites through a combination of poll taxes, literacy and comprehension tests, and residency and record-keeping requirements. Grandfather clauses temporarily permitted some illiterate whites to vote. Voter turnout dropped drastically through the South as a result of such measures.
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Jim Crow laws were laws used by the south to deny Blacks the ability to vote. They had to prove that they had certain knowledge that they were not taught. This was used to keep the Blacks away from the voting booth...
Rightfully so. Look what a bunch of illiterates voting did last Presidential election.
It was just a literacy test. Sadly I think even whites couldn't pass a lot of that test now because the education system has been so dimmed down to accomodate the blacks with an average IQ of 85.
You know the old saying that you can't polish a turd, well the HALF of blacks with IQs under 85 (which used to be the cutoff point for mental retardation, it was lowered to 70 for PC reasons) will never, ever, be able to be educated properly. You can give them good grades but that doesn't mean they learned anything.
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While 'separate but equal' may seem awful to some... I personally think affirmative action is far more evil.
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While 'separate but equal' may seem awful to some... I personally think affirmative action is far more evil.
Equal is never going to happen. NEVER. It's impossible. Separation protects white people from their crime and their dragging down of academic standards.
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The literacy tests during the Jim Crow era were definitely unfair since illiterate whites could vote and some literate blacks were not allowed to vote. I think everybody should be given a fair chance which is not the case today with affirmative action.
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The literacy tests during the Jim Crow era were definitely unfair since illiterate whites could vote and some literate blacks were not allowed to vote. I think everybody should be given a fair chance which is not the case today with affirmative action.
They didn't have the best interest of the country in mind. They were only seeking more welfare.
They were better off under segregation in many ways. They lived in families more often (with a present father), for example.
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Unless you have some old documentation where you applied for something and classified yourself as part black in the past I think you are fighting a loosing battle. Most companies reserve the right maintain a probation period where they can remove an employee that they feel is not working out no questions asked. Many companies can remove a employee even after years go by if they find that person made a false statement on the original job application. The sad fact is that jobs no longer go to the most qualified. Jobs today are given out according to job quotas that may give employers a tax break or other preferential treatment by the state or federal government. I honestly could not classify myself as black on a job application even if it would get me the job. Self respect would just not allow me to check that little box.
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The literacy tests during the Jim Crow era were definitely unfair since illiterate whites could vote and some literate blacks were not allowed to vote. I think everybody should be given a fair chance which is not the case today with affirmative action.
They didn't have the best interest of the country in mind. They were only seeking more welfare.
They were better off under segregation in many ways. They lived in families more often (with a present father), for example.
Blacks for the most part are not so well off now, but I don't think their situation was any better before segregation. We should oppose black culture, excessive welfare, and affirmative action, but I think that endorsing segregation hurts our credibility.
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The literacy tests during the Jim Crow era were definitely unfair since illiterate whites could vote and some literate blacks were not allowed to vote. I think everybody should be given a fair chance which is not the case today with affirmative action.
They didn't have the best interest of the country in mind. They were only seeking more welfare.
They were better off under segregation in many ways. They lived in families more often (with a present father), for example.
Blacks for the most part are not so well off now, but I don't think their situation was any better before segregation. We should oppose black culture, excessive welfare, and affirmative action, but I think that endorsing segregation hurts our credibility.
Things were much better when we had neighborhoods where people lived with other like minded folks. The differences between white and black culture are just to vast for it to ever be a comfortable situation. I have lived in both situations and its sad to see how bad things have degenerated even in the best neighborhoods with all the equal housing laws on the books today.
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I spoke with a lawyer today. He said it will be lengthy and costly to pursue this and I will most likely lose. He said there is a limit to how severe the AA can be for example, they can't reject every White applicant.
This is a study of Affirmative Action practiced at elite universities http://opr.princeton.edu/faculty/tje/espenshadessqptii.pdf. Page 293-294 states:
African-American applicants receive the equivalent of 230 extra SAT points (on a 1600-point scale), and being Hispanic is worth an additional 185 SAT points. Other things equal, recruited athletes gain an admission bonus worth 200 points, while the preference for legacy candidates is worth 160 points. Asian-American applicants face a loss equivalent to 50 SAT points.
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But, WHY do you have the name "Jim Crow?" Just out of curiosity.
I agree with JTF's idea of deporting Blacks but the next best thing to that were the Jim Crow laws, which segregated non-Whites. The elimination of those laws was a turning point in America.
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In some sort of orientation before medical school I read of a summer program that prepared you for the transition from undergraduate to graduate school and prepared you for the coming courses. (BTW it was also FREE!) I stated an interest in this program and was told I could not participate because it was only for minorities.
I had a black friend in medical school that was ranting one day saying "they must think I am stupid, I don't need to cheat.....". I asked him what he was talking about, he said a few black instructors were at the black fraternity (forget what it was called) meeting giving the students current exams and other information about courses. The exams and special study materials were not only for their courses (the black instructors) but for many other courses as well. He and another black guy were very offended and did not take the info and quit the fraternity. Both stated that it was this sort of people (both the instructors and the students that participated) that made non minorities wonder if blacks actually earned their degree or position or if they were simply given it. This occurred at a state university in the southeast, I graduated in 2000 so I can just imagine what it is like now.
RE: Legal action, I agree with previous posts that being a white male you are considered the enemy and will always be the loser in race related cases. However, I think it also depends greatly on what state you are in. In Georgia you may have a chance, in Massachusetts I would say absolutely not.
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On a slightly off-hand note let me add something...
We whites are treated differently by the court system. I am not defending the african american, but I am saying that there is a double standard in the court system which may be a form of racism. I noticed this in the 90s and I don't know if it is still this way.
Because I am a rich white kid I was given a diversion program while a black charged with a similar offense received jail time. I also 'got-away' with a drug crime and because I got a good lawyer and pulled some strings I was able to defeat the charge. I thank Hashem for the mercy which the court showed me, but I also noticed that justice is sometimes not as fair as it is supposed to be. Sometimes the guilty walk free, and the innocent do time.
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On a slightly off-hand note let me add something...
We whites are treated differently by the court system. I am not defending the african american, but I am saying that there is a double standard in the court system which may be a form of racism. I noticed this in the 90s and I don't know if it is still this way.
Because I am a rich white kid I was given a diversion program while a black charged with a similar offense received jail time. I also 'got-away' with a drug crime and because I got a good lawyer and pulled some strings I was able to defeat the charge. I thank Hashem for the mercy which the court showed me, but I also noticed that justice is sometimes not as fair as it is supposed to be. Sometimes the guilty walk free, and the innocent do time.
What? That sounds like a liberal statement. Blacks are given easier sentences than Whites for the same crime. That's a fact. What drug crime did you commit muman?
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On a slightly off-hand note let me add something...
We whites are treated differently by the court system. I am not defending the african american, but I am saying that there is a double standard in the court system which may be a form of racism. I noticed this in the 90s and I don't know if it is still this way.
Because I am a rich white kid I was given a diversion program while a black charged with a similar offense received jail time. I also 'got-away' with a drug crime and because I got a good lawyer and pulled some strings I was able to defeat the charge. I thank Hashem for the mercy which the court showed me, but I also noticed that justice is sometimes not as fair as it is supposed to be. Sometimes the guilty walk free, and the innocent do time.
In my country it is exactly the opposite.
Muman, it could be, that the judge knew in your case, that you had none dangerous animus, but the black boy did. Perhaps he had done wrong before.
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On a slightly off-hand note let me add something...
We whites are treated differently by the court system. I am not defending the african american, but I am saying that there is a double standard in the court system which may be a form of racism. I noticed this in the 90s and I don't know if it is still this way.
Because I am a rich white kid I was given a diversion program while a black charged with a similar offense received jail time. I also 'got-away' with a drug crime and because I got a good lawyer and pulled some strings I was able to defeat the charge. I thank Hashem for the mercy which the court showed me, but I also noticed that justice is sometimes not as fair as it is supposed to be. Sometimes the guilty walk free, and the innocent do time.
You were more salvageable. The diversion program was much more likely to work for you than someone with absolutely no guilt for any bad actions and an "I didn't do nuffin" attitude.
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But, WHY do you have the name "Jim Crow?" Just out of curiosity.
I agree with JTF's idea of deporting Blacks but the next best thing to that were the Jim Crow laws, which segregated non-Whites. The elimination of those laws was a turning point in America.
Yes segregation was right and necessary. Now it's open season on whites and white culture.
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Blacks are now given jobs over qualified caucasions. It is the Era of Naziism and lawslessness, and total evil. Everything that used to be normal is in chaos. I hope everyone has their weapons handy if needed.
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I have been forthright all along about my past. I returned to religion about six years ago because of several problems which came up in my life. But back in the 80s I was in a lot of trouble... I got involved in crack cocaine and other drugs... Now it seems like ancient history.
I have had a lot of good luck with the legal system here in CA and again I thank Hashem for the mercy which I have witnessed.
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I was planning on applying for a job twice in a time difference of two months. The first time I used a fake name, fake address, fake phone number, entered my real qualifications, and enter my race as White. The second time I used my real name, entered the same qualifications, and entered my race as Black. I was rejected as a White applicant but accepted as a Black applicant. They gave me the interview and I got the job. Then a few weeks later the HR manager said I wasn't Black (I don't look Black at all). I responded and said I'm half Black and that I consider myself Black because race is a social construct, as the liberals say it is. They fired me and I want to sue them on the grounds that race is a social construct and that if I can identify myself as Black on the census I should be able to do so in the job market. Of course I'm not half Black and don't consider myself Black. I'll be talking to a lawyer but to those who know the law, can I win?
NO- the next job; You pretend that you cant hear or see, you'll get the job- you will be hired as a brain surgeon.
I am Iroquois, Portugee/Crytpo Marrano Jew-Mom/gentile-Dad and Scot. They told me they had 'enough' white people? go FIGURE. I couldnt care LESS who likes me OR who wants to 'hire me' anymore.
Screw the lawyers, you aren't black, OR ILLEGAL. You will get NO help, American, NOT in THIS country.
But, WHY do you have the name "Jim Crow?" Just out of curiosity.
Jim Crow laws were laws used by the south to deny Blacks the ability to vote. They had to prove that they had certain knowledge that they were not taught. This was used to keep the Blacks away from the voting booth...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws
The Jim Crow laws were state and local laws in the United States enacted between 1876 and 1965. They mandated de jure segregation in all public facilities, with a "separate but equal" status for black Americans and members of other non-white racial groups.
Some examples of Jim Crow laws are the segregation of public schools, public places and public transportation, and the segregation of restrooms and restaurants for whites and blacks. The U.S. military was also segregated. These Jim Crow Laws were separate from the 1800-66 Black Codes, which had also restricted the civil rights and civil liberties of African Americans. State-sponsored school segregation was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of the United States in 1954 in Brown v. Board of Education. Generally, the remaining Jim Crow laws were overruled by the Civil Rights Act of 1964[1] and the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
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Blacks were still elected to local offices in the 1880s, but the establishment Democrats were passing laws to make voter registration and elections more restrictive, with the result that participation by most blacks and many poor whites began to decrease. Starting with Mississippi in 1890, through 1910 the former Confederate states passed new constitutions or amendments that effectively disfranchised most blacks and tens of thousands of poor whites through a combination of poll taxes, literacy and comprehension tests, and residency and record-keeping requirements. Grandfather clauses temporarily permitted some illiterate whites to vote. Voter turnout dropped drastically through the South as a result of such measures.
Ok, thanks, I was just wondering. I am all for black people voting if they are like The Black Conservative on Y.T. and Keyes, and Manning, and many other good black people.
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I spoke with a lawyer today. He said it will be lengthy and costly to pursue this and I will most likely lose. He said there is a limit to how severe the AA can be for example, they can't reject every White applicant.
This is a study of Affirmative Action practiced at elite universities http://opr.princeton.edu/faculty/tje/espenshadessqptii.pdf. Page 293-294 states:
African-American applicants receive the equivalent of 230 extra SAT points (on a 1600-point scale), and being Hispanic is worth an additional 185 SAT points. Other things equal, recruited athletes gain an admission bonus worth 200 points, while the preference for legacy candidates is worth 160 points. Asian-American applicants face a loss equivalent to 50 SAT points.
Thanks for putting that info from that university its scary. They really do cater to blacks such a shame
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I am all for black people voting if they are like The Black Conservative on Y.T. and Keyes, and Manning, and many other good black people.
That would be fine if there were actually black PEOPLE voting. They deserve to have respect and rights. What are they though, less than 1/2% of the black population? I just want to keep the N words from voting.
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I have been forthright all along about my past. I returned to religion about six years ago because of several problems which came up in my life. But back in the 80s I was in a lot of trouble... I got involved in crack cocaine and other drugs... Now it seems like ancient history.
I have had a lot of good luck with the legal system here in CA and again I thank Hashem for the mercy which I have witnessed.
That's incredible. You would've been the last person I'd think would be involved with that. How do you feel about the fact that many members and even Chaim (I think) believe drug dealers should be executed.
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I have been forthright all along about my past. I returned to religion about six years ago because of several problems which came up in my life. But back in the 80s I was in a lot of trouble... I got involved in crack cocaine and other drugs... Now it seems like ancient history.
I have had a lot of good luck with the legal system here in CA and again I thank Hashem for the mercy which I have witnessed.
That's incredible. You would've been the last person I'd think would be involved with that. How do you feel about the fact that many members and even Chaim (I think) believe drug dealers should be executed.
I regret my past but I do not call for extreme punishment of drug dealers. The fact that many people my age have tried these illicit substances yet somehow made life better as we got older is a good reason.
It is best to avoid drugs altogether but in this day and age it is very difficult. When I started it was with the smart kids in my highschool {of which I was one}. One of those friends went to Cornell and works in DARPA now. I went to RPI {Rensselaer Polytech Institute} and RPI was a party school {according to Playboy mag in the 80s}.
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I have been forthright all along about my past. I returned to religion about six years ago because of several problems which came up in my life. But back in the 80s I was in a lot of trouble... I got involved in crack cocaine and other drugs... Now it seems like ancient history.
I have had a lot of good luck with the legal system here in CA and again I thank Hashem for the mercy which I have witnessed.
That's incredible. You would've been the last person I'd think would be involved with that. How do you feel about the fact that many members and even Chaim (I think) believe drug dealers should be executed.
I regret my past but I do not call for extreme punishment of drug dealers. The fact that many people my age have tried these illicit substances yet somehow made life better as we got older is a good reason.
It is best to avoid drugs altogether but in this day and age it is very difficult. When I started it was with the smart kids in my highschool {of which I was one}. One of those friends went to Cornell and works in DARPA now. I went to RPI {Rensselaer Polytech Institute} and RPI was a party school {according to Playboy mag in the 80s}.
Actually if I had anything to say about it convicted drug dealers would have a select part of their body hacked off. Vermin that prey on school age children pushing drugs have no place in society. If they ended up in a jail I controlled their life would be a living hell. Drug users past or present are not much higher up on the food chain then the pusher themselves. I always have problems understanding people that at one point fall into every evil trap under the sun then one day wake up and smell the coffee of the real world. The sins of the past cant be made whole by going 180* in the opposite direction in the present. How could it, then everyone in the world would know they have ten or twenty years to have a ball and then try and do some restitution in their old age.
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I have been forthright all along about my past. I returned to religion about six years ago because of several problems which came up in my life. But back in the 80s I was in a lot of trouble... I got involved in crack cocaine and other drugs... Now it seems like ancient history.
I have had a lot of good luck with the legal system here in CA and again I thank Hashem for the mercy which I have witnessed.
That's incredible. You would've been the last person I'd think would be involved with that. How do you feel about the fact that many members and even Chaim (I think) believe drug dealers should be executed.
I regret my past but I do not call for extreme punishment of drug dealers. The fact that many people my age have tried these illicit substances yet somehow made life better as we got older is a good reason.
It is best to avoid drugs altogether but in this day and age it is very difficult. When I started it was with the smart kids in my highschool {of which I was one}. One of those friends went to Cornell and works in DARPA now. I went to RPI {Rensselaer Polytech Institute} and RPI was a party school {according to Playboy mag in the 80s}.
Actually if I had anything to say about it convicted drug dealers would have a select part of their body hacked off. Vermin that prey on school age children pushing drugs have no place in society. If they ended up in a jail I controlled their life would be a living hell. Drug users past or present are not much higher up on the food chain then the pusher themselves. I always have problems understanding people that at one point fall into every evil trap under the sun then one day wake up and smell the coffee of the real world. The sins of the past cant be made whole by going 180* in the opposite direction in the present. How could it, then everyone in the world would know they have ten or twenty years to have a ball and then try and do some restitution in their old age.
Well you just don't understand the Jewish concept of Teshuva. And you don't understand me. But that's OK, I don't need your approval.
According to Jewish belief a person can do Teshuva the day before he dies and be forgiven by the heavenly tribunal. If you would like I can give you quotations but I doubt you will be moved.
http://www.nishma.org/articles/insight/insight5762-02.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/607499/jewish/Teshuvah-Repentance.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/567550/jewish/How-to-Change-the-Past.htm
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Drug users past or present are not much higher up on the food chain then the pusher themselves.
Why? Drug use isn't a sin unless they commit a drug related crime.
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I regret my past but I do not call for extreme punishment of drug dealers. The fact that many people my age have tried these illicit substances yet somehow made life better as we got older is a good reason.
It is best to avoid drugs altogether but in this day and age it is very difficult. When I started it was with the smart kids in my highschool {of which I was one}. One of those friends went to Cornell and works in DARPA now. I went to RPI {Rensselaer Polytech Institute} and RPI was a party school {according to Playboy mag in the 80s}.
I'm confused, did you sell drugs or use it? I don't think selling drugs is a sin at all, although I wouldn't do it, and all drugs should be legal. If it were legal then their wouldn't be criminals involved with it. If the drugs didn't come from enemy nations then there is no problem. Most drug dealers are involved with other crimes so they should be punished.
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I regret my past but I do not call for extreme punishment of drug dealers. The fact that many people my age have tried these illicit substances yet somehow made life better as we got older is a good reason.
It is best to avoid drugs altogether but in this day and age it is very difficult. When I started it was with the smart kids in my highschool {of which I was one}. One of those friends went to Cornell and works in DARPA now. I went to RPI {Rensselaer Polytech Institute} and RPI was a party school {according to Playboy mag in the 80s}.
I'm confused, did you sell drugs or use it? I don't think selling drugs is a sin at all, although I wouldn't do it, and all drugs should be legal. If it were legal then their wouldn't be criminals involved with it. If the drugs didn't come from enemy nations then there is no problem. Most drug dealers are involved with other crimes so they should be punished.
No, I never sold the stuff... I was just a user for about six years, from 1983-1989... I moved to get away from the stuff in 1989. For me this was my lions dens...
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Actually if I had anything to say about it convicted drug dealers would have a select part of their body hacked off. Vermin that prey on school age children pushing drugs have no place in society. If they ended up in a jail I controlled their life would be a living hell. Drug users past or present are not much higher up on the food chain then the pusher themselves. I always have problems understanding people that at one point fall into every evil trap under the sun then one day wake up and smell the coffee of the real world. The sins of the past cant be made whole by going 180* in the opposite direction in the present. How could it, then everyone in the world would know they have ten or twenty years to have a ball and then try and do some restitution in their old age.
CJD, I agree with you that just because someone does good things in the present, it doesn't undo the past mistakes or the damage caused by them. However as a Christian I do believe that people can change with G-d's help and be forgiven. They may still have to pay for what they did though in many ways and G-d is the one to sort out the rewards and punishments because He is the right one to judge people who say they have changed and who the law can not currently deal with. Justice will always be served whether it's here on earth or in the next world.
In a court I do think that drug dealers should get very harsh punishments though because they do deliberately prey on children.
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No, I never sold the stuff... I was just a user for about six years, from 1983-1989... I moved to get away from the stuff in 1989. For me this was my lions dens...
I'm really happy for you Muman that you were able to stop before it ended up destroying your life entirely.
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It is a 'coincidence' that this is posted on Israel National News site today. It discusses the Jewish idea of Gehinnom and in the end the Rabbi quotes the idea I was mentioning before, that we can repent up till the day we die...
Is There a Hell?
Iyar 23, 5769, 17 May 09 11:32
by Rabbi Aron Moss
(IsraelNN.com) Question
Do Jews believe in Hell? I am not planning any trips or anything, but was wondering because I have heard mixed reports about this.
Answer
We do believe in a type of hell. But not the one found in cartoons and joke books. Hell is not a punishment. It is, in fact, a great kindness that we are sent to Hell.
The prophets and mystics of Judaism described a spiritual place called Gehennom. This is usually translated as "Hell", but a better translation would be the "Supernal Washing Machine". Because that's exactly how it works. Our soul is cleansed in Gehennom in the same way as our clothes are cleansed in a washing machine.
We don't put our socks in the washing machine to punish them. We put them through what seems like a rough and painful procedure only to make them clean and wearable again. The intense heat of the water loosens the dirt, and the force of being swirled around shakes it off completely. Far from hurting your socks, you are doing them a favour by putting them through this process.
But put yourself in your socks' shoes. If you would be thrown into boiling hot water and flung around for half an hour, you too would start to feel that someone doesn't like you. If only the socks would know that this is all for their good. Only after going through a washing cycle can the socks be worn again.
So too with the soul. Every act we do in our lifetime leaves an imprint on our soul. The good we do brightens and elevates our soul. And every wrongdoing leaves a stain that needs to be cleansed. If at the end of our life we leave this world without fixing the wrongs we have done, then our soul is unable to reach its place of rest on high. We must go through a cycle of deep cleansing, our soul is flung around at intense spiritual heat, to rid it of any dirty residue it may have gathered and prepare it for entry into Heaven.
This is no punishment. It may be painful, but it is for our good. Our soul can only shine once the stains have been fully removed.
Of course, this whole process can be avoided. If we truly regret the wrong we have done, make amends with the people whom we have hurt, then we can leave this world with clean socks.
That's why our sages said, "Repent one day before you die." And what should you do if you don't know which day that will be? Repent today.
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Chaim has said frequently on the Ask JTF shows that in Judaism, when a person sins, he or she must make it up to the people that he or she harmed. On Yom Kippur, we fast and repent for the sins we committed against G-d. But in terms of sins against our fellow human beings, we must ask them for forgiveness and make things up to them.
On the one hand, I can understand where CJD is coming from since many drug addicts rob, murder and rape to get money for their next fix. However if there are drug users that never harmed killed or maimed anyone, that's a different story. I'm glad Muman was able to turn his life around for the better.
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But put yourself in your socks' shoes.
I liked this part. ;D
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Chaim has said frequently on the Ask JTF shows that in Judaism, when a person sins, he or she must make it up to the people that he or she harmed. On Yom Kippur, we fast and repent for the sins we committed against G-d. But in terms of sins against our fellow human beings, we must ask them for forgiveness and make things up to them.
On the one hand, I can understand where CJD is coming from since many drug addicts rob, murder and rape to get money for their next fix. However if there are drug users that never harmed killed or maimed anyone, that's a different story. I'm glad Muman was able to turn his life around for the better.
Lisa, what you said is 100% correct. There are sins between man and Hashem, and sins between man and man... Those which we commit against a fellow man can only be forgiven by the person we have harmed. All these laws are written in the laws of Teshuva.
Thank you so much for your kind words. It is one of the pillars of my repentence that I have turned around from the path of evil. I could have turned out, without Hashems providence, in a much darker world. Though the three events which caused my ultimate teshuva were by brothers death in 9/11, divorce, and losing a job all within 3 years. Since that teshuva my life has been full of blessing, a new job, new car, and continued parnassah.
I hope that all those who find themselves in a dark place continue to hope for a day when they can once again walk knowing that Hashem walks with them. In last Shabbats parasha we read that even though we fall off the path, and Hashem brings darkness and curses into our lives {Bechotochai}, he will always hold out hope for our repentence.
I will quote the pasuks which I refered to above from Leviticus 26:
33 And you will I scatter among the nations, and I will draw out the sword after you; and your land shall be a desolation, and your cities shall be a waste.
34 Then shall the land be paid her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye are in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and repay her sabbaths.
35 As long as it lieth desolate it shall have rest; even the rest which it had not in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.
36 And as for them that are left of you, I will send a faintness into their heart in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a driven leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as one fleeth from the sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth.
37 And they shall stumble one upon another, as it were before the sword, when none pursueth; and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
38 And ye shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
39 And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.
40 And they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, in their treachery which they committed against Me, and also that they have walked contrary unto Me.
41 I also will walk contrary unto them, and bring them into the land of their enemies; if then perchance their uncircumcised heart be humbled, and they then be paid the punishment of their iniquity;
42 then will I remember My covenant with Jacob, and also My covenant with Isaac, and also My covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
43 For the land shall lie forsaken without them, and shall be paid her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them; and they shall be paid the punishment of their iniquity; because, even because they rejected Mine ordinances, and their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 And yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them; for I am the LORD their God.
45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.
PS: Rubystars, I noticed that pun... It was a funny pun...
:::D
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No, I never sold the stuff... I was just a user for about six years, from 1983-1989... I moved to get away from the stuff in 1989. For me this was my lions dens...
You said that a Black person received jail time for a similar offense. I assumed it was drug sale because I didn't know drug use had jail time. You can get jail time for drug use?
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No, I never sold the stuff... I was just a user for about six years, from 1983-1989... I moved to get away from the stuff in 1989. For me this was my lions dens...
You said that a Black person received jail time for a similar offense. I assumed it was drug sale because I didn't know drug use had jail time. You can get jail time for drug use?
Well, from what I remember since it was a first offense I could get diversion program. I was given the diversion program but at the time I failed to go to it, and was arrested again in Santa Cruz because of possession of controlled substance. This time I got the lawyer and because of strings which were pulled, the case was dropped. It is a miracle no matter how I look at it... I believe that it was a combination of things which allowed me to walk out of the court without even having to testify. I always figured that if my family didn't know people, and I was poor, I could have done time...
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Well, from what I remember since it was a first offense I could get diversion program. I was given the diversion program but at the time I failed to go to it, and was arrested again in Santa Cruz because of possession of controlled substance. This time I got the lawyer and because of strings which were pulled, the case was dropped. It is a miracle no matter how I look at it... I believe that it was a combination of things which allowed me to walk out of the court without even having to testify. I always figured that if my family didn't know people, and I was poor, I could have done time...
I think the courts do work in favor of those with the right connections but Blacks don't get treated worse. Remember Yankel Rosenbaum's murderer and OJ simpson. They were acquitted because the jurors were Black Nazis. Anyone can get better treatment if the jurors or judges are biased.
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Blacks say that the first human is black, just say that the first human is black, so you're black, itsa recessive gene . blahablahblahblah. . LOL. ANyway, thats what they claim, if white gene is recessive, how come majority of progress in the world came from the white nations. Anyway, I was just giving yo usome advice on how to address these clowns, since that is the type of rhetoric they love to hear. How bout this, get down on the floor crying, saying you hate being white.. They will make you their "black sheep". Get it :::D
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Blacks say that the first human is black, just say that the first human is black, so you're black, itsa recessive gene . blahablahblahblah. . LOL. ANyway, thats what they claim, if white gene is recessive, how come majority of progress in the world came from the white nations. Anyway, I was just giving yo usome advice on how to address these clowns, since that is the type of rhetoric they love to hear. How bout this, get down on the floor crying, saying you hate being white.. They will make you their "black sheep". Get it :::D
The first humans were probably in Africa, but that doesn't mean they're the same race as the race that's in Africa today. It's true that sub-Saharan Africans are more closely related to those original people than other humans are (particularly the Khoisan). However the origins of humanity is a lot more complicated than these African lovers would have you believe. Hominids moved out of Africa in waves, leaving various species of human-like creatures. Erectus was in Asia and Neanderthals were in Europe, many different types of hominids were in Africa. There may have been others that were around that didn't leave a trace. Hominids lived at the same time as "anatomically modern" humans too in some cases. All the races originated from Africa but some of the waves of emigration from Africa ended up possibly mixing in some cases with previous waves. This allows for some regional variation that's more than just adapting to a different climate.
I think the evidence points most strongly to a combination between the old "Out of Africa" theory and "Multiregionalism".
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Blacks say that the first human is black, just say that the first human is black, so you're black, itsa recessive gene . blahablahblahblah. . LOL. ANyway, thats what they claim, if white gene is recessive, how come majority of progress in the world came from the white nations. Anyway, I was just giving yo usome advice on how to address these clowns, since that is the type of rhetoric they love to hear. How bout this, get down on the floor crying, saying you hate being white.. They will make you their "black sheep". Get it :::D
The first humans were probably in Africa, but that doesn't mean they're the same race as the race that's in Africa today. It's true that sub-Saharan Africans are more closely related to those original people than other humans are (particularly the Khoisan). However the origins of humanity is a lot more complicated than these African lovers would have you believe. Hominids moved out of Africa in waves, leaving various species of human-like creatures. Erectus was in Asia and Neanderthals were in Europe, many different types of hominids were in Africa. There may have been others that were around that didn't leave a trace. Hominids lived at the same time as "anatomically modern" humans too in some cases. All the races originated from Africa but some of the waves of emigration from Africa ended up possibly mixing in some cases with previous waves. This allows for some regional variation that's more than just adapting to a different climate.
I think the evidence points most strongly to a combination between the old "Out of Africa" theory and "Multiregionalism".
I tend to agree with you here. I find it Very hard to believe that there weren't multiple migrations of hominids.... but of course, having evidence of these small nomadic migrations is VERY tough... since you need ideal conditions to preserve their remnants.
I personally don't like the idea of 'intellectuals' catering their theories about our genealogy to match their biased world-views. That includes Liberals, Nazis, and Muslims who have warped ideas about where we come from and who did what.