JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hyades on June 02, 2009, 12:48:11 PM
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CONTROVERSY OVER 'LENIENT' SENTENCE
German Muslim Sentenced for Stabbing Rabbi
An Afghanistan-born German Muslim has been sentenced to three-and-a-half years in jail after he stabbed a rabbi in a Frankfurt street last September. The Jewish cleric believes the man was trying to kill him and that the sentence is too lenient.
(http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1185114,00.jpg)
Rabbi Zalman Gurevitch, who was stabbed by an Afghanistan-born man on a street in Frankfurt last September, during the trial.
A German court sentenced a 23-year-old man Afghanistan-born man to three-and-a-half years in jail on Tuesday for stabbing and seriously injuringa rabbi in Frankfurt last September.
The unemployed German Muslim, named only as Sajed A., stabbed rabbi Zalman Gurevitch, 42, in an altercation with the orthodox Jewish cleric who had been walking down a street with two companions.
The court convicted him of causing grievous bodily harm. The Frankfurt public prosecutor's office had initially planned to charge him with attempted manslaughter but refrained from doing so after investigating the case. During the trial an eyewitness said the two men had been involved in an argument before the stabbing occurred.
Judge Klaus Drescher told the court that the defendant called Gurevitch a "[censored] Jew" and "Jewish Pig." But the judge added it had not been proven that Sajed A. had also threatened to kill him. The stabbing last year heightened fears of anti-Semitic attacks among Germany's Jewish community, which criticized the sentence as too lenient on Tuesday.
The court was unable to determine exactly what happened immediately before the stabbing, partly because two important witnesses, the man and the woman who had been walking with Gurevitch, refused to attend the trial. Both those witnesses live abroad and are of the Jewish faith, and they said they didn't want to come to the trial because they feared for their safety.
Gurevitch was a co-plaintiff in the trial and had demanded a manslaughter verdict. His lawyer Rolf Döring said he would probably appeal against the verdict because he believed the court had understimated the threat posed by the defendant.
"After a verdict like this Frankfurt has become more unsafe for Jews," said student Moshe Mendelzon, who had attended the trial with a group of young orthodox Jews to support the rabbi.
The chairman of Frankfurt's Jewish community, Salomon Korn, said the sentence was too lenient. "The court has given a clear message to potential stabbers," Korn told the dpa German news agency.
He said the court should have tried to set a bigger deterrent. "Otherwise copycat attackers can hope for similiarly lenient verdicts."
cro/AP/dpa/ddp
WHAT A SHAME! GERMAN JUDGES BECAME DHIMMIS!!! This is just like the female judge (also in Frankfurt) who did NOT sentence a Muslim for beating his wife hurting her severley, since "it is their culture and their law" and she "didn't want to interfere in religious issues of Muslim people"! SPINELESS and COWARD!!! >:( :o
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The fact is, people are impressed with the religiosity of Muslims. They are respecting it. They see more in it than they do in Christianity. It's a growing trend.
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Go to Israel, Rabbi.
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The fact is, people are impressed with the religiosity of Muslims. They are respecting it. They see more in it than they do in Christianity. It's a growing trend.
This is a joke. Religiousity in Islam?!?! It is a death cult and it is no 'religion'. It is against religion, against G-d, and against Man who is made in G-ds image. It is ashame that you, msd, have bought into that sheker...
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The fact is, people are impressed with the religiosity of Muslims. They are respecting it. They see more in it than they do in Christianity. It's a growing trend.
This is a joke. Religiousity in Islam?!?! It is a death cult and it is no 'religion'. It is against religion, against G-d, and against Man who is made in G-ds image. It is ashame that you, msd, have bought into that sheker...
I have to agree with Muman.
Most Criminals in Europe are Moslems. They are stealing, robbing, raping and murdering. Their religiosity is hypocrisy and disgusting.
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The fact is, people are impressed with the religiosity of Muslims. They are respecting it. They see more in it than they do in Christianity. It's a growing trend.
This is a joke. Religiousity in Islam?!?! It is a death cult and it is no 'religion'. It is against religion, against G-d, and against Man who is made in G-ds image. It is ashame that you, msd, have bought into that sheker...
By definition a cult is a religion. Sorry.
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I am sure that the German judge, prosecutor and jury are jealous that they didn't get the chance to stab a rabbi.
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The fact is, people are impressed with the religiosity of Muslims. They are respecting it. They see more in it than they do in Christianity. It's a growing trend.
This is a joke. Religiousity in Islam?!?! It is a death cult and it is no 'religion'. It is against religion, against G-d, and against Man who is made in G-ds image. It is ashame that you, msd, have bought into that sheker...
I agree with you! And whoever calls such a filthy cult full of atrocities and aberrations a religions is doing bad to the real religion. If Islam was a religion, then we could call Rastafarians, Scientology and even these smaller groups as religion. Islam could be - IF so - considered an ideology with a huge number of adherents.
And a person who kills, mugs, steals, robs, rapes, beheads, tortures and whatever a filthy s*t*anic soul may do in the name of G-d, cannot be considered a religious person rather than an anti-religious person and is even worse than an atheist! >:(
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I am sure that the German judge, prosecutor and jury are jealous that they didn't get the chance to stab a rabbi.
This is pure nonsense! They are simply spineless and bow down to other people's disbelief!
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The fact is, people are impressed with the religiosity of Muslims. They are respecting it. They see more in it than they do in Christianity. It's a growing trend.
This is a joke. Religiousity in Islam?!?! It is a death cult and it is no 'religion'. It is against religion, against G-d, and against Man who is made in G-ds image. It is ashame that you, msd, have bought into that sheker...
I agree with you! And whoever calls such a filthy cult full of atrocities and aberrations a religions is doing bad to the real religion. If Islam was a religion, then we could call Rastafarians, Scientology and even these smaller groups as religion. Islam could be - IF so - considered an ideology with a huge number of adherents.
And a person who kills, mugs, steals, robs, rapes, beheads, tortures and whatever a filthy s*t*anic soul may do in the name of G-d, cannot be considered a religious person rather than an anti-religious person and is even worse than an atheist! >:(
Yeah but most Muslims don't run around killing, mugging, stealing, robbing, raping, beheading, torturing ( the latter of which is something we do, that Chaim ben Pesach says he supports).
A disproportionate number of Muslims do this -- the whole Muslim world is filled with violence!!! I agree. But the fact remains that Islam is a religion. Religion does not mean "Good". Tribal cults, primitive belief systems, polytheism, druidism: all these are religions. That's just how the word is used. Do I have to get the dictionary?
Who cares, right?
I think the world sees the Islamists as very pious and religious. They fast, they dress conservatively, they don't believe in homosexuality, the man is the head of the household. And this impresses a lot of people because Jews and Christians are not this way anymore. The Islamists are more religious than Jews and Christians.
I mean they follow their belief system with greater fervor than do Christians and Jews. It's just an observation.
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I am sure that the German judge, prosecutor and jury are jealous that they didn't get the chance to stab a rabbi.
This is pure nonsense! They are simply spineless and bow down to other people's disbelief!
I agree, what happened to the Germans who defeated the Roman legions in Teutenburg Forrest the German leader was , Arminius
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The fact is, people are impressed with the religiosity of Muslims. They are respecting it. They see more in it than they do in Christianity. It's a growing trend.
This is a joke. Religiousity in Islam?!?! It is a death cult and it is no 'religion'. It is against religion, against G-d, and against Man who is made in G-ds image. It is ashame that you, msd, have bought into that sheker...
By definition a cult is a religion. Sorry.
This is a very disturbing statement. Tell me, what separates a cult... .say like.. the Manson Family... from a Religion... lets say... Judaism.?
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I am sure that the German judge, prosecutor and jury are jealous that they didn't get the chance to stab a rabbi.
This is pure nonsense! They are simply spineless and bow down to other people's disbelief!
I agree what happened to the Germans who defeated the Roman legions in Teutenburg Forrest i forgot the leaders name it ended in rick
I live right in the Teutoburg Forest region! It is just a few kilometres away from here. Do you mean Arminius? ;D
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I am sure that the German judge, prosecutor and jury are jealous that they didn't get the chance to stab a rabbi.
This is pure nonsense! They are simply spineless and bow down to other people's disbelief!
I agree what happened to the Germans who defeated the Roman legions in Teutenburg Forrest i forgot the leaders name it ended in rick
I live right in the Teutoburg Forest region! It is just a few kilometres away from here. Do you mean Arminius? ;D
Yes, maybe he will get rid of the dhimmis and their moslem masters if he were alive
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Yeah but most Muslims don't run around killing, mugging, stealing, robbing, raping, beheading, torturing ( the latter of which is something we do, that Chaim ben Pesach says he supports).
A disproportionate number of Muslims do this -- the whole Muslim world is filled with violence!!! I agree. But the fact remains that Islam is a religion. Religion does not mean "Good". Tribal cults, primitive belief systems, polytheism, druidism: all these are religions. That's just how the word is used. Do I have to get the dictionary?
Who cares, right?
I think the world sees the Islamists as very pious and religious. They fast, they dress conservatively, they don't believe in homosexuality, the man is the head of the household. And this impresses a lot of people because Jews and Christians are not this way anymore. The Islamists are more religious than Jews and Christians.
I mean they follow their belief system with greater fervor than do Christians and Jews. It's just an observation.
TROLL ALERT! TROLL ALERT!! They are filthy pigs and their religion is one of gluttony, perversion and violence. You sound like you are being an apologist for them? Now you make some kind of horrible statement that Americans torture muslims and Chaim supports this? And then you say most muslims never torture people, just us bloodthirsty yeehaw yankees right? Do you konw that muslims rape their own daughters and kill them for the stupidest reasons? They are selfish, cheating and cruel people. I went to arab restaurant to eat that employed a white american girl. She told me not to write the tip on the bill and to just give her some cash quick, because the filhy dirty muslim savages won't allow her to get any tips. I wanted to go and give these ragheads a piece of my mind and I never went back to this restaurant. MY gosh, what kind of crack you smokin son?
Most muslims are not religious, but they dress in all kinds of funky clothing and spend half their day at mosque praying and eating. Look at their stupid holiday of Ramaden, they call it a fast day? After 6PM they eat like pigs. I was invited long time ago to visit a mosque as they told me they are having a giant feast to make up for all the fasting they had to do earlier in the day. THis is a joke. THeir prophet was a fat, smelly, child molesting, glutton , drunk and a thief. His followers are same way.
REligious Christians and Jews are much more devoted to their religion than Muslims. The problem is you just go by what you see on the outside. Christians in Egypt, Pakistan and throughout middle east are being tortured and dying for their relign cause they refuse to accept the fat , ugly child raping prophet! Who is more religious? Just cause they wrap rag around their head and say they refuse alcohol doesn't mean they are devoted. THey are like violent children and if you say the smallest thing to offend them, they will put a knife in your back. And of course its all blessed and holy cause they did it to honor the prophet.
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Yeah but most Muslims don't run around killing, mugging, stealing, robbing, raping, beheading, torturing ( the latter of which is something we do, that Chaim ben Pesach says he supports).
A disproportionate number of Muslims do this -- the whole Muslim world is filled with violence!!! I agree. But the fact remains that Islam is a religion. Religion does not mean "Good". Tribal cults, primitive belief systems, polytheism, druidism: all these are religions. That's just how the word is used. Do I have to get the dictionary?
Who cares, right?
I think the world sees the Islamists as very pious and religious. They fast, they dress conservatively, they don't believe in homosexuality, the man is the head of the household. And this impresses a lot of people because Jews and Christians are not this way anymore. The Islamists are more religious than Jews and Christians.
I mean they follow their belief system with greater fervor than do Christians and Jews. It's just an observation.
TROLL ALERT! TROLL ALERT!! They are filthy pigs and their religion is one of gluttony, perversion and violence. You sound like you are being an apologist for them? Now you make some kind of horrible statement that Americans torture muslims and Chaim supports this? And then you say most muslims never torture people, just us bloodthirsty yeehaw yankees right? Do you konw that muslims rape their own daughters and kill them for the stupidest reasons? They are selfish, cheating and cruel people. I went to arab restaurant to eat that employed a white american girl. She told me not to write the tip on the bill and to just give her some cash quick, because the filhy dirty muslim savages won't allow her to get any tips. I wanted to go and give these ragheads a piece of my mind and I never went back to this restaurant. MY gosh, what kind of crack you smokin son?
Most muslims are not religious, but they dress in all kinds of funky clothing and spend half their day at mosque praying and eating. Look at their stupid holiday of Ramaden, they call it a fast day? After 6PM they eat like pigs. I was invited long time ago to visit a mosque as they told me they are having a giant feast to make up for all the fasting they had to do earlier in the day. THis is a joke. THeir prophet was a fat, smelly, child molesting, glutton , drunk and a thief. His followers are same way.
REligious Christians and Jews are much more devoted to their religion than Muslims. The problem is you just go by what you see on the outside. Christians in Egypt, Pakistan and throughout middle east are being tortured and dying for their relign cause they refuse to accept the fat , ugly child raping prophet! Who is more religious? Just cause they wrap rag around their head and say they refuse alcohol doesn't mean they are devoted. THey are like violent children and if you say the smallest thing to offend them, they will put a knife in your back. And of course its all blessed and holy cause they did it to honor the prophet.
I'm not convinced that Christians and Jews are more devoted to their religions. I see a lot of apostasy in both. I think it's fine if Christianity goes away, because it's idolatrous, but I don't want Judaism to go away. Islam is idolatrous too because they pray toward that rock in Mecca. A subtle idolatry, but idolatry nonetheless.
Everything else I said was true. Most Muslims are not thieves, murderers and child rapists. Since there's a billion of them, if they were, the whole world would be destroyed. Take a look at Indonesia, where much fewer reports of violence and barbarism occurs, yet there are a ton of Muslims there; the largest country I believe of Muslims.
Chaim ben Pesach has said he supports torture of terrorists. I think this is stupid because you don't get good confessions out of torture, plus torture is a barbaric activity.
The word religion is used to describe:
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS305US305&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=define:+religion
"an institution to express belief in a divine power;"
See how vague it is? Of course it refers to Islam, as it does THOUSANDS of other religions. THOUSANDS, all right? I thought this was well known fact. Only on the JTF forums is the word religion not used to describe Islam.
"Most muslims are not religious, "
They're clearly a pretty religious lot. Their religion is warlike and look how much war and destruction they cause. They do this all in the name of their G-d Allah. JTF Forum programming will "correct" the word g-d and put it in uppercase, probably, but I wrote it in lowercase.
ANd by the way, don't call someone a troll just because they disagree with you. I've been called a troll several times before on the internet and I guess it's because I'm a really smart guy that knows everything better than everybody else, or it's because I'm BELLIGERENT AND RUDE, or whatever it is, but the fact remains that a FORUM, and this is a forum right, is a place of discussion, the whole point of it being there's supposed to be debate and argument. A Forum, here is a definition:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS305US305&q=define:+forum&btnG=Search
So you should be thankful that you've got someone here that doesn't always agree 100% with everything, like everybody else. Not that I enjoy posting here. I keep telling myself to leave! But I'm insane and I stay. I can't help being insane. It is a genetic condition. :P
Never mind, I'm leaving. This place sucks. I don't like it. It has no ideas for how to improve the world. I was hoping to find more ideas for the world might be improved. Instead it's just a bunch of people posting news topics about Islam and then decrying its ever-growing popularity and ascent.
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The fact is, people are impressed with the religiosity of Muslims. They are respecting it. They see more in it than they do in Christianity. It's a growing trend.
MSD: stands for MOONBAT
(http://hoosierarmymom.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/barking_moonbat3.jpg)
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It's depends how you define religion: if by simple following the rituals wihout understandment than all those Turkish, Afgani, Kurdish "German" muslims who pray in foreign language they don't understand are religius; However even in Iran and Saudi Barabaria they're whores, drugs and other vices so this "religion" don't sanctifade them as true Jews and Christans are. Back to the topic It's not antisemitc verdict becouse Eurpean courts don't generaly treat atacks in which victims survives as attempted murders, my cousin got the knife in his belly too and perpetuetor got only 1 year. Do Germany have "hate crime" legislation?
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Yeah but most Muslims don't run around killing, mugging, stealing, robbing, raping, beheading, torturing ( the latter of which is something we do, that Chaim ben Pesach says he supports).
A disproportionate number of Muslims do this -- the whole Muslim world is filled with violence!!! I agree. But the fact remains that Islam is a religion. Religion does not mean "Good". Tribal cults, primitive belief systems, polytheism, druidism: all these are religions. That's just how the word is used. Do I have to get the dictionary?
Who cares, right?
I think the world sees the Islamists as very pious and religious. They fast, they dress conservatively, they don't believe in homosexuality, the man is the head of the household. And this impresses a lot of people because Jews and Christians are not this way anymore. The Islamists are more religious than Jews and Christians.
I mean they follow their belief system with greater fervor than do Christians and Jews. It's just an observation.
TROLL ALERT! TROLL ALERT!! They are filthy pigs and their religion is one of gluttony, perversion and violence. You sound like you are being an apologist for them? Now you make some kind of horrible statement that Americans torture muslims and Chaim supports this? And then you say most muslims never torture people, just us bloodthirsty yeehaw yankees right? Do you konw that muslims rape their own daughters and kill them for the stupidest reasons? They are selfish, cheating and cruel people. I went to arab restaurant to eat that employed a white american girl. She told me not to write the tip on the bill and to just give her some cash quick, because the filhy dirty muslim savages won't allow her to get any tips. I wanted to go and give these ragheads a piece of my mind and I never went back to this restaurant. MY gosh, what kind of crack you smokin son?
Most muslims are not religious, but they dress in all kinds of funky clothing and spend half their day at mosque praying and eating. Look at their stupid holiday of Ramaden, they call it a fast day? After 6PM they eat like pigs. I was invited long time ago to visit a mosque as they told me they are having a giant feast to make up for all the fasting they had to do earlier in the day. THis is a joke. THeir prophet was a fat, smelly, child molesting, glutton , drunk and a thief. His followers are same way.
REligious Christians and Jews are much more devoted to their religion than Muslims. The problem is you just go by what you see on the outside. Christians in Egypt, Pakistan and throughout middle east are being tortured and dying for their relign cause they refuse to accept the fat , ugly child raping prophet! Who is more religious? Just cause they wrap rag around their head and say they refuse alcohol doesn't mean they are devoted. THey are like violent children and if you say the smallest thing to offend them, they will put a knife in your back. And of course its all blessed and holy cause they did it to honor the prophet.
I'm not convinced that Christians and Jews are more devoted to their religions. I see a lot of apostasy in both. I think it's fine if Christianity goes away, because it's idolatrous, but I don't want Judaism to go away. Islam is idolatrous too because they pray toward that rock in Mecca. A subtle idolatry, but idolatry nonetheless.
Everything else I said was true. Most Muslims are not thieves, murderers and child rapists. Since there's a billion of them, if they were, the whole world would be destroyed. Take a look at Indonesia, where much fewer reports of violence and barbarism occurs, yet there are a ton of Muslims there; the largest country I believe of Muslims.
Chaim ben Pesach has said he supports torture of terrorists. I think this is stupid because you don't get good confessions out of torture, plus torture is a barbaric activity.
The word religion is used to describe:
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS305US305&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=define:+religion
"an institution to express belief in a divine power;"
See how vague it is? Of course it refers to Islam, as it does THOUSANDS of other religions. THOUSANDS, all right? I thought this was well known fact. Only on the JTF forums is the word religion not used to describe Islam.
"Most muslims are not religious, "
They're clearly a pretty religious lot. Their religion is warlike and look how much war and destruction they cause. They do this all in the name of their G-d Allah. JTF Forum programming will "correct" the word g-d and put it in uppercase, probably, but I wrote it in lowercase.
ANd by the way, don't call someone a troll just because they disagree with you. I've been called a troll several times before on the internet and I guess it's because I'm a really smart guy that knows everything better than everybody else, or it's because I'm BELLIGERENT AND RUDE, or whatever it is, but the fact remains that a FORUM, and this is a forum right, is a place of discussion, the whole point of it being there's supposed to be debate and argument. A Forum, here is a definition:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS305US305&q=define:+forum&btnG=Search
So you should be thankful that you've got someone here that doesn't always agree 100% with everything, like everybody else. Not that I enjoy posting here. I keep telling myself to leave! But I'm insane and I stay. I can't help being insane. It is a genetic condition. :P
Never mind, I'm leaving. This place sucks. I don't like it. It has no ideas for how to improve the world. I was hoping to find more ideas for the world might be improved. Instead it's just a bunch of people posting news topics about Islam and then decrying its ever-growing popularity and ascent.
You don't get the point! Muslim regimes have no arms of mass destruction - if Taliban or Iran had the weapons that the secualr regime in Pakistan has, they would have droped them a long time ago!
It is just normal that crime rates are low in Muslim countries: One is that the punishment is draconic and other is that they have more respect for each other.
But another fact is that in diasporas they become filthy respectless criminals.
Just as an example: We have about 2.7% Muslims in Germany, they do have a proportion of...
35% of total rapes
62% of violent crimes
89% of antisemitic crimes such as damaging cemetaries, or attacking synagogues, or hitting Jews
...and it is nothing better in other statistics... >:(
And you honestly want to tell anyone that they aren't like that? They behave that way when think they are the new rulers of the European dhimmi countries...
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Msd is a typical liberal, islamo loving nazi.. This place doesn't suck, its you who suck. One reason why crime rates are so low in muslim countries, is things like rape are hardly considered a crime, you will have your right hand cut off for stealing and the countries are ruled by totalitarian dictators who will crush any person who dares give any trouble to the big man. Its not only muslim countries that are low in crime, but any conutry ruled by some strong man have lower crime rates, because they lack freedom and their populations are heavily controlled. Freedom has its good and bad points. However, if you look at Switzerland it has a lower crime rate than any Islamic country, despite the people having a large number of individual freedoms. However, soon as they allowed muslim immigrants into the country , the crime rate skyrockted.
You don't like torturing terrorists do you? Oh look, I hear another Obama supporting terrorist sympathizer. Torturing these scumbags is the least we should do. ANd yes, if you dealing with a child murderer who believes he is honoring G-d by destroying the world, I say do whatevery ou can do to make this monster give up information. These bastards would have no trouble torturing you and I think we need to do whatever is possible to make them talk. And you msd are 100% wrong, the torture that has been imposed has been very successful and has saved many lives.
Christianity is idolatrous??? ??!!!! You are telling me a religion where millions go travel to some ugly, hot desert just to kiss a big black stone is not idolatrous? Muslims have been worshipping their Kabbah for 1000s of year before islam ever existed. Islam was stolen from Judaism and CHristianity and mixed with their arab pagan religions. They believe Allah lives in the big black rock and the big black rock in holy. CHristians are not idol worshipping at all.. They don't put moons on each of their temples. When Christians pray it is because they want to talk to their Father and G-d. WHen muslims pray it is just a formality.. They do it as a ritual and they are not allowed to smile, talk or have any emotions. Its quite scary if you see it and you can feel zero connection with G-d; they are like brainwashed zombies congregating to the temple of the dead to listen to Satan's order. When Christians pray, they pray to forgive enemies. WHen Muslims pray they pray to kill their enemies.
As far muslims being more holy.. ITs a total joke. They dress in rags and think it makes them more spiritual. I will say anything is farther from the truth. Hindus, Jews, Evangelical, Orthodox, Catholics are very religious people. I cannot say all Catholics and Orthodox are holy, because of some past things they did, but there are holy people amongst them. Muslims are the exact opposite. They are backbiting, hot tempered, cheating, violent, conniving and disrespectful to one another. I know many people who travel to middle eastern countries who talk about how rude the people are and how much fighting they do amongst themselves. Also, they treat their women like animals. How can you be a holy person when you beat on your woman like an half evolved ape?? Does being a wife beater make you more spiritual some how? THere is more muslim women virgins than Christian women virgins, probably cause having your throat cut doesn't seem worth the risk. However, there is probably less virgin muslim men than Orthodox CHristian or Orthodox Jewish men. Why? Muslim men are perverts and frequenting prostitutes and sleeping around is a competitive sport amongst them. And since you can have 4 wives you never or at risk of being an adulterer.
Islam is a bullsh*t religion based on greed, lust and violence. Mohammad created the religion as a way to justify his tyrannical and filthy lifestyle and win the hearts of all the warring and savage arab tribes. It worked out well for him, now he is the big cheese.
Here msd, I just got bac k from good will and bought some spare rags, why don't you wrap them around your head. Maybe you can go back to hookah bar with your muslim friends and spend all day there wasting your life like they do. Jews and CHristians are hard working and diligent people and have helped the earth progress spiritually and technologically. You and your friends are filth, vermin who are helping the world regress back into medieval barbarism.
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I will defend msd in saying that he is truly struggling with issues. I do not wish him any ill and still give him the benefit of the doubt. What he said concerning Jewish belief concerning Christianity is true, it is considered Idolatry by Jewish law. Now I will not argue why or whether it should be, but it is true. I do not agree with msd concerning Islam being a religion... Judaism is more than a religion, it is a worldview which cannot be separated from our faith in the power of the L-rd. Our faith molds virtually every aspect of our relationship to this world.
I hope that msd continues to search for the truth and finds it. I believe he truly is a seeker of truth and considering the struggles he must be encountering I hope he finds it soon. He has said some far-out things in our forum and has retracted some of those ideas. I have stood against some of his more outrageous comments but have always tried to steer him toward truth. Rebuke is a good thing if the one receiving it is prepared to truly learn from the rebuke. When rebuke only results in one person feeling superior and the other feeling anxious the rebuke is useless.
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The fact is, people are impressed with the religiosity of Muslims. They are respecting it. They see more in it than they do in Christianity. It's a growing trend.
MSD: stands for MOONBAT
(http://hoosierarmymom.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/barking_moonbat3.jpg)
Hi AsheDina, It is my opinion that MSD does not like Jews. I have read a few posts where the MSD / AKA MOONBAT attempts to make Jews look bad and there are other posts where he/she infers that Jews are cheap. MSD has made several suggestions that all Jews belong in Israel, I disagree and that in itself reminds me of other anti semites who feel the same way..that Jews should leave the USA.
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The fact is, people are impressed with the religiosity of Muslims. They are respecting it. They see more in it than they do in Christianity. It's a growing trend.
MSD: stands for MOONBAT
(http://hoosierarmymom.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/barking_moonbat3.jpg)
Hi AsheDina, It is my opinion that MSD does not like Jews. I have read a few posts where the MSD / AKA MOONBAT attempts to make Jews look bad and there are other posts where he/she infers that Jews are cheap. MSD has made several suggestions that all Jews belong in Israel, I disagree and that in itself reminds me of other anti semites who feel the same way..that Jews should leave the USA.
I think he is struggling to understand Jews. We have had some PMs between us and I don't think that he truly hates Jews, but he fears Jews. I was hoping that he would be able to have better understanding.
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I think he is struggling to understand Jews. We have had some PMs between us and I don't think that he truly hates Jews, but he fears Jews. I was hoping that he would be able to have better understanding.
Muman, this guy is more clever than you think. Why do you think Christians are idol worshippers? Idol worshipping is forbidden in Christianity and Judaism. Muslims make pilgrimages all over the world to kiss a big black rock that they think is Allah, just in another form. Why defend some of his erroneous statements. THis guy is clever and knows what he is doing. He sits around defending muslims as being most spiritual people but mocks and degrades Jews and CHristians as being unholy. Jews follow a way of thought that is spiritual, muslims follow a way of thought that is carnal and barbaric. Just because you dress up in fancy rags and put a leash around your wife and put a veil on her head doesn't make them spiritual people.
As far as Europeans are concerned, they are not at awe at the spirituality of muslims. Rather they view them as poor and pathetic people who are oppressed. THis is the same way they view blacks, who are perhaps the least spiritual, most carnal people on the earth. Europe is booming with all kinds of pagans, first Eastern EUropeans flooded the country, then blacks, arabs and pakistanis. The only upstanding foreigners that exist in EUrope are Hindu and CHristian Indians.
I think standing up for the guy is a big mistake, but to each their own.. My 2 cents.
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I've never had any Muslim friends. I think criminals of all stripes and colors should be punished accordingly for their crimes. I haven't supported Islam, although I think one time years ago I sent some money to Indonesia (?) or India, a Muslim charity, after they had an earthquake.
I think that Jews are supposed to live in Israel, yes, and be a separate people, like the Bible says. I want them to be more powerful and I pray for Israel to gain in strength.
I wrote this today in the comments of an AmericanThinker.com article:
Obama is talked of (by the media) as if he is the Prime Minister of Israel. I would rather Israel be leading the world. Israel should become the new America. America is obviously on the downfall. Our economy is doing badly, our culture is rotten now, and other things. Jews are very intelligent people and G-d is supposed to rule the earth, so G-d's chosen people are supposed to rule. That's what it says in the Bible. I think Jews should move to Israel and strengthen it, and stop trying to rule the world by proxy through Western countries, namely these days America. You're in a sinking ship. Stop letting us boss you around and start bossing us around for a change.
Something needs to be done about the "Religion of Peace." Either we bomb their countries into oblivion, or we slowly fight a losing war that only hurts our economy economically, which is what Bin Laden said he planned, to fight a war of attrition. Well, he is winning. He got what he wanted.
I think it's best that we drop the word "terrorist" and substitute it for "criminal." Under a world government, a criminal would be any person who breaks the Noahide Laws, such as the one against murder, and then he should be put to death if there are any witnesses, or put in jail even if their aren't (in my opinion). Then all Muslims who commit crimes like murder will be desposed of. It won't matter what country they live in. This is why we need world government. You cannot fight a war on "criminals" using a military. It's stupid and doesn't work. Bin Laden is winning.
Over and out.
I think that makes me a Zionist. It's true that my background is liberal. I used to be very liberal. I've come a long way. For instance, in 10th grade I gave a speech to the class that was totally pro-choice and compared killing fetuses to killing flies. Well, I no longer believe that anymore. Also I have trouble believing that scriptures are inspired, but I do believe in G-d and I like to read the Bible.
I don't want to post here anymore because I'm unliked and I don't want to cause a stir. I didn't come here to "troll."
Hope your organization continues to grow.
Thanks Muman for the kind words.
Matthew
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Also here is a recent post by me on a newsgroup:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/tree/browse_frm/thread/b9aa828468e92f00/4e6a45d79e0668e3?rnum=41&_done=/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/b9aa828468e92f00%3F#doc_e9c413ac0eef2cbf
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MSD, who are you to decide where Jews have to live? I have not once seen a post from you where you insist that muslims should leave the USA and go back to their homes. Speaking of homes, the muslims are entering every Country on earth and breeding like rabbits and at the expense of their host Countries.
You are so focused on Jews and from what I have observed, you insult Jews and then turn around with some pathetic compliment as if it makes up for your insults.
Mountain man was correct about you, you are sneaky and I see it too.
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I agree with Muman here. I don't think MSD is a bad guy even though I disagree with a lot of what he says. I called him a troll and got into a big argument with him when he first joined the forum. However, I now think he is just a slightly confused guy who is struggling to find the truth.
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I agree with Muman here. I don't think MSD is a bad guy even though I disagree with a lot of what he says. I called him a troll and got into a big argument with him when he first joined the forum. However, I now think he is just a slightly confused guy who is struggling to find the truth.
Personally I do not trust him.
Shalom - Dox
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The fact is, people are impressed with the religiosity of Muslims. They are respecting it. They see more in it than they do in Christianity. It's a growing trend.
MSD: stands for MOONBAT
(http://hoosierarmymom.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/barking_moonbat3.jpg)
Hi AsheDina, It is my opinion that MSD does not like Jews. I have read a few posts where the MSD / AKA MOONBAT attempts to make Jews look bad and there are other posts where he/she infers that Jews are cheap. MSD has made several suggestions that all Jews belong in Israel, I disagree and that in itself reminds me of other anti semites who feel the same way..that Jews should leave the USA.
Jews definitely should leave the USA.
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Jews definitely should leave the USA.
Muslims should definately leave it first. Don't know about you, but I rather America, the most powerful nuclear nation on the earth be filled with Zionist Jews than Jihadist Muslims. If all Jews leave this country than it means Muslims and other tyrants will have more free reign. I am sorry this goal of moving back to Israel, which is probably 1/20th its size in biblical times is really not feasible. I mean you have already about 8 million people stuck in an area of land four times the size of little Delaware. I mean Delaware only has 900,000 people as it is. How are all the JEws going to fit into this place? Not to mention how likely will you be able to get all the ragheads out of Israel first? What will Jews do for resources? If all Jews leave USA, you won't have a voice here anymore and will lose a lot of influence in this country. In the meantime, Muslims, blacks from around the globe will breed and proliferate here and will seek to get government positions and gain control here. I personally think Jews need to go out and conquer middle eastern countries and spread all over the globe and make their presence stronger. I think the one weakness of Jews in Diaspora is they try to integrate into the cultures and forget their own. They need to help build the kingdom of Israel from all countries and lose this mentality of all hiding out in a tiny piece of land. If Jews gained control of USA and had the codes to the nukes that would be a good thing. If Muslims gained control, well Armageddeon is not far away.
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Jews definitely should leave the USA.
Muslims should definately leave it first. Don't know about you, but I rather America, the most powerful nuclear nation on the earth be filled with Zionist Jews than Jihadist Muslims. If all Jews leave this country than it means Muslims and other tyrants will have more free reign. I am sorry this goal of moving back to Israel, which is probably 1/20th its size in biblical times is really not feasible. I mean you have already about 8 million people stuck in an area of land four times the size of little Delaware. I mean Delaware only has 900,000 people as it is. How are all the JEws going to fit into this place? Not to mention how likely will you be able to get all the ragheads out of Israel first? What will Jews do for resources? If all Jews leave USA, you won't have a voice here anymore and will lose a lot of influence in this country. In the meantime, Muslims, blacks from around the globe will breed and proliferate here and will seek to get government positions and gain control here. I personally think Jews need to go out and conquer middle eastern countries and spread all over the globe and make their presence stronger. I think the one weakness of Jews in Diaspora is they try to integrate into the cultures and forget their own. They need to help build the kingdom of Israel from all countries and lose this mentality of all hiding out in a tiny piece of land. If Jews gained control of USA and had the codes to the nukes that would be a good thing. If Muslims gained control, well Armageddeon is not far away.
You obviously don't understand Jewish theology which says that when Moshiach comes all Jews, all of them, will be able to reside in Israel. Just as our sages tell us that everyone in a packed Beit HaMikdash {Temple} can bow all at once without falling on one another. When this occurs we will witness miracles. All Jews should reside in Israel, this is the place which Hashem promised our forefathers for us as a heritage. America is not the Jewish peoples heritage, it is Israel alone. America does not offer the spiritual benefits which Israel offers. There is no argument that all Jews should live in Israel.
Also in Messianic times all evil will be removed from the world so all the evil islamists will be wiped from this world. There will be no reason for Jews to be anywhere but in their appointed place.
http://www.ou.org/torah/tt/5766/matmas66/mikdash.htm
A SECOND MIRACLE AT THE MISHKAN http://www.torahtots.com/parsha/shmos/pekudei3.htm
A SECOND MIRACLE AT THE MISHKAN
The first thing that one must realize is that the courtyard in front of the Mishkan was 50 amot (75 feet) long and 50 amot wide. In this space there was the outer Mizbayach (altar) which was 5 amot by 5 amot. The kevesh (access ramp), which was used to ascend to the top of the Mizbayach was 32 amot (48 feet) long to the south. The Kiyor (washstand) was also between the Mishkan and the Mizbayach.
The entire area in front of the Mishkan was 50 by 50 amot, that is 2,500 square amot. All these articles were able to fit in that space.
Only a small area remained. Even if the entire area were empty, no more than 2,500 people could have fit in there, one person in each square amah. However, the entire Bnei Yisroel was able to fit into that courtyard on the day that the Mishkan was erected, although there were millions of people.
The Torah tells us that there were 600,000 men over 20 years old. This was in addition to those under 20, who were not numbered. If we calculated the necessary space, an area four miles square would be needed to hold all these people. Therefore, it was a very great miracle that this small area could hold so many people.
There was also a miracle within a miracle. Since so many people were in this rather small area, one would imagine that they were pressed tightly together. However, the opposite was true. Each person had plenty of room. It seemed to each person as if he had 4 amot (6 feet) of empty space around him. Each person was able to bow down without disturbing the person next to him.
All the Bnei Yisroel stood in the courtyard and saw the fire come down from heaven, standing like a pillar. It entered the Mishkan and went upon the Mizbayach, burning the fats of all the sacrifices; then it remained standing above the Mizbayach. All Bnei Yisroel saw this miracle and bowed.
At that time Divine inspiration rested upon them and they sang a song to Hashem. As it says, "All the people saw and they sang out and they fell on their faces." (Vayikra 9:24).
The Mishkan was completed in Kislev, but Hashem wanted it to be erected on Rosh Chodesh Nisan. One reason given is that Hashem waited until Nisan because that was the month when our forefather Yitzchak was born. Another reason is that Nisan is a month of joy, when the Bnei Yisroel were freed from Mitzrayim and Nisan is the month in which we will be redeemed in the future.
In order to pacify Kislev, which had been denied the honor of celebrating the Mishkan's inauguration, Hashem pledged that another Sanctuary would be inaugurated in Kislev. That time came when the miracle of Chanukah took place, and the second Beit HaMikdash was rededicated on 25 Kislev which became the 1st day of Chanukah.
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MSD reminds me of t_h_j, Hidden Author, and Adrian Wanker. Troll alert indeed.
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You obviously don't understand Jewish theology which says that when Moshiach comes all Jews, all of them, will be able to reside in Israel. Just as our sages tell us that everyone in a packed Beit HaMikdash {Temple} can bow all at once without falling on one another. When this occurs we will witness miracles. All Jews should reside in Israel, this is the place which Hashem promised our forefathers for us as a heritage. America is not the Jewish peoples heritage, it is Israel alone. America does not offer the spiritual benefits which Israel offers. There is no argument that all Jews should live in Israel.
Also in Messianic times all evil will be removed from the world so all the evil islamists will be wiped from this world. There will be no reason for Jews to be anywhere but in their appointed place.
I never said I was a scholar in Jewish theology, I am just using logic in the 21st century. If you think I am so wrong, may I ask where you are writing this message you wrote me from? I assume you are in Jerusalem? If you are in USA, then explain to me why you are not in Israel, if you think all Jews must be in Israel. Please don't say its because of jobs, family, friends. That means you place material and social needs over the one-sided teaching all Jews must be in Israel/
Also, one thing I am not sure if you understand is that Israel is a small fraction of its original size. Are you telling me that small piece of land they call Israel represents the land that G-d promised Avraham, Itzhak and Jacov? As far as I know 1/3 of Israel was seceded to the Arabs and now is called West Bank and Gaza. The entire Yordan, Northern Saudi, Western Iraq, Sinai peninsula, Syria were under the reign of Israel for 1000s of years. Now, suddenly the cutthroat ragheads pillaged and robbed the land from its original owners claiming its their land? I would say that all Jews belong in Israel, but not until the kingdom is established and the islamic threat is squashed. Also, I think in this day and age by isolating yourself and influence from other counjtries you risk putting the JEwish people in a dangeorus position. ISlam is spreading like a wildfire because they are going out of their way to colonize the world. They will spread their lies and hatred against Jews and the Jewish people will have no representatives in the other countries or influence to help educate and give them any political influence to counter this onslaught of hatred and carnage that is being conjured.
Until the MEssiah comes, I don't see why Jewish people should abandoned where they live. THe Israeli government doesn't even let its citizens own guns.. Isarelis are not even free in their own countr. Jews have actually more freedom in USA than they do in Isarel. There was a story about a Israeli who was locked up in jail for shooting a Bedouin who attacked his family and tried robbing him. Jews are dragged from their homes in Isarel and their homes are given to arabs in return.
But I challenge you.. If you really think all Jews belong in Israel (I speak of right now), are you in Israel? And if no, then why not!?
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I was born in America, and have been in America all my life. As I have said numerous times before, I am looking forward to moving to Israel within the next 10 years. I have looked at property in Tzfat, a nice religious town in the north of Israel. Once my parents have gone to the next world I will be able to make Aliyah.
I firmly believe that all Jews should think about moving to Israel and soon. It is what I daven for every day, to restore the Temple so that Hashems presence will rest amongst us once again. I don't know if you are aware how central Israel and Jerusalem is to the Jewish faith.
Jews in the diaspora will not be very powerful as Hashem promised us in Torah that when we don't follow the Torah we will be opressed in the lands in which we dwell. Actually this parsha was read about three weeks ago, called Bechukosai.
Read what Hashem told the Jewish people in our Torah:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0326.htm
14 But if ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments;
15 and if ye shall reject My statutes, and if your soul abhor Mine ordinances, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but break My covenant;
16 I also will do this unto you: I will appoint terror over you, even consumption and fever, that shall make the eyes to fail, and the soul to languish; and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 And I will set My face against you, and ye shall be smitten before your enemies; they that hate you shall rule over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.
18 And if ye will not yet for these things hearken unto Me, then I will chastise you seven times more for your sins.
19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass.
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain; for your land shall not yield her produce, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruit.
21 And if ye walk contrary unto Me, and will not hearken unto Me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.
22 And I will send the beast of the field among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your ways shall become desolate.
23 And if in spite of these things ye will not be corrected unto Me, but will walk contrary unto Me;
24 then will I also walk contrary unto you; and I will smite you, even I, seven times for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall execute the vengeance of the covenant; and ye shall be gathered together within your cities; and I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26 When I break your staff of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver your bread again by weight; and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied. {S}
27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto Me, but walk contrary unto Me;
28 then I will walk contrary unto you in fury; and I also will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.
30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your sun-pillars, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols; and My soul shall abhor you.
31 And I will make your cities a waste, and will bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.
32 And I will bring the land into desolation; and your enemies that dwell therein shall be astonished at it.
33 And you will I scatter among the nations, and I will draw out the sword after you; and your land shall be a desolation, and your cities shall be a waste.
34 Then shall the land be paid her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye are in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and repay her sabbaths.
35 As long as it lieth desolate it shall have rest; even the rest which it had not in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.
36 And as for them that are left of you, I will send a faintness into their heart in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a driven leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as one fleeth from the sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth.
37 And they shall stumble one upon another, as it were before the sword, when none pursueth; and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
38 And ye shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
39 And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.
40 And they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, in their treachery which they committed against Me, and also that they have walked contrary unto Me.
41 I also will walk contrary unto them, and bring them into the land of their enemies; if then perchance their uncircumcised heart be humbled, and they then be paid the punishment of their iniquity;
42 then will I remember My covenant with Jacob, and also My covenant with Isaac, and also My covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
43 For the land shall lie forsaken without them, and shall be paid her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them; and they shall be paid the punishment of their iniquity; because, even because they rejected Mine ordinances, and their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 And yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them; for I am the LORD their God.
45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.
46 These are the statutes and ordinances and laws, which the LORD made between Him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.
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MSD reminds me of t_h_j, Hidden Author, and Adrian Wanker. Troll alert indeed.
Remember someone with the name Mud ..something? I think it's the same guy.
Mud whoever is no longer on the forum.
Shalom - Dox
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Muman613 indeed it's all in Bible. I don't hold grudge if someone claim I'm idolater becouse I' know that all not Ortodox Christians will burn in hell; ;D hoverewer msd is either WN Jew hater or snake muslim trying to divide the forum. Jews shud return to Israel; Great Israel from Egyptian River to Euphratus in future but all nations who exile Jews are cursed by God.