JTF.ORG Forum
Guns and Self-Defense => Guns/Firearms => Topic started by: ModernWarfare on July 07, 2009, 06:53:47 AM
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I have been thinking about saving up and getting an M1 Garand. I think it would be pretty effective for defense despite its age. What do the rest of you think?
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That was a great rifle. :dance:
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That rifle saved Western Civilization from fascism.
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Just make sure you buy the M1A (or an actual M14) and not a clip fed M1.
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Just make sure you buy the M1A (or an actual M14) and not a clip fed M1.
Why not a real WWII era M1 Garand? Sure it carries 8 rounds but that can be a plus as it can't be classed as an assault rifle. An M14 or M1A (with a 20 round mag) would be nice but if I can't get one of those I will be more than happy with an M1 Garand.
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Clips suck, and 8 rounds isn't enough. You say you want it for defense? I don't know what you plan to defend with a Garand, but it's long, slow and heavy. Certainly not ideal for defense.
With an M1A or an M14, you could convert to full-auto if need be.
Assault rifle or not, it probably doesn't matter. Stupid politicians accuse everything without a bolt of being an assault rifle. I have no idea where you live, but the laws regarding assault rifles will not likely affect your ownership of an M1A.
Aren't Garands over $1000, anyways? Complete waste of money.
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Clips suck, and 8 rounds isn't enough. You say you want it for defense? I don't know what you plan to defend with a Garand, but it's long, slow and heavy. Certainly not ideal for defense.
With an M1A or an M14, you could convert to full-auto if need be.
Assault rifle or not, it probably doesn't matter. Stupid politicians accuse everything without a bolt of being an assault rifle. I have no idea where you live, but the laws regarding assault rifles will not likely affect your ownership of an M1A.
Aren't Garands over $1000, anyways? Complete waste of money.
I need a rifle that is both accurate and powerful and a M1 Garand is both of these. I have talked to a few Vietnam era soldiers and they said that the M1 Garand was better than the M16s they were issued. An M14 might be better as I could have a 20 rather than 8 round magazine. I am looking for a rifle that will do well for keeping me alive in case of mass civil disorder or race war.
I thought about getting a AK-47 but the ammo was too expensive. I am currently looking to get a M1 Garand, M14 or G3 as my primary weapon.
M1 Garand's go from $800 to $1,300.
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Build your own AK. I see the price of AKs has risen dramatically since I last visited the United States, but a brand new AK is still cheaper than a badly used Garand, which is a lot cheaper than a G3.
The WWII Garand doesn't have a magazine, it has a clip, you put the clip into the rifle, and the clip is ejected along with 8th round. I don't know too much about the Garand, I've fired from one once, just one round. I can tell you this much - it is long and it is heavy. It's probably fairly accurate, but you only have 8 rounds before you have to load another clip. Eight rounds is not close to enough.
By modern standards, it's a very heavy gun. It's also very long. If you're thinking of getting either an AR or a Garand, get an AR. You could easily convert the AR into full-auto mode. You can easily stock up on dozens of 30 round clips for the AR. You can buy bigger magazines if you want, although they're far more prone to failure. The Garand was obsolete during WWII. AR and AK rifles are still competent. An AR is light enough that you could hold the pistol grip in one hand, extend your arm and fire it like a pistol. You can also fire it full auto this way, but, for me at least, it's uncontrollable for anything more than a short burst. Even though ARs feel like big air guns, they're pretty durable and dependable. I wouldn't even bother with a normal length AR, unless you really need the added accuracy. The longer the rifle, the harder it is to carry it around, especially if you're getting in and out of a vehicle or moving around confined spaces. For self-defense purposes, an AK or an AR will scare people more than a Garand.
As far as ammo is concerned, AK ammo (7.62x39) is probably the cheapest on the market. On the other hand, Garand ammo (.30-06 and .308) are at least twice more per round. It's a better round but isn't worth twice as much.
If you want power, I'd get an AK with a folding stock. If you decide you need more accuracy, I'd get an AR with a short barrel and a folding stock. If you want both, then go for an M1A with a shorter barrel and a folding stock (expensive). Personally, I would buy something extremely compact if I thought I'd have to carry it.
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(http://www.undeadreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/garand.jpg)
Wonderful gun! ;D
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If it's for nastalgic purposes go for it, I wouldn't trust my life to one though. As other have mentioned I would definitely go for the M14 instead, they are currently in service.
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Yonah offers a fair amount of reasonable advice (and thank you, Yonah), but I must take exception with this comment: "The Garand was obsolete during WWII."
None other than George S. Patton called the M1-Garand "the greatest battlefield implement ever devised" (or some such statement like that). The Garand absolutely outclassed every other standard issue infantry rifle used in the Second World War, whether on the Axis or the Allied side.
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Yeah, you're right. The Garand was the best infantry rifle of the war; what I should have said is that infantry rifles were obsolete by WWII.
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I have seen a number of M1A for sale with 10 round magazines... Can I get a 20 round magazine or do these strictly fire 10 rounds I was wondering because I am sure its the former but i wanna make sure.
In any case I will probably get a M14 or G3 and get a M1 Garand if I can't find either one for a good price.
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You're probably looking at M1A Garands. The M1A is the civilian version of the M14. You can buy high capacity magazines for these guns.
If you're looking for a .308 rifle, consider a Heckler and Koch MR762.
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M1 Garand is a grand ol rifle ;D G-d Bless your soul for investing in such a wonderful piece in American history. It is also a great, accurate long range gun and has its place.. The .308 round is a powerful round and you can also find M1 Garands chambered in their original 30-06 round, which is even more devastating.
As for me , I am going to invest in new age tacti-coolish high tech battle rifles.. But, if I had the extra money to collect, I'd get an M-14 or M-1A which is superior in most ways to the Garand and is also an exceptional and historical gun.. The M-14 is what the military adopted after WWII to replace the Garand which had its limitations.. It was used by infantry units in the Vietnam War and was put into militay use in the late 1950s. Many military snipers and other professional shooters still swear by the M-14 or M1A (civilan semi auto version).
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/M14_afmil.jpg)
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Anyone bump fired this?
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Did you buy it? Wood or polymer? This is a fantastic rifle, the best ever. For home defense, however, stick with a 12 gage shotgun
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For home defense, however, stick with a 12 gauge shotgun
I agree with this 100%
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I really need one too! But this damn gun controle... >:(
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I really need one too! But this damn gun controle... >:(
how bad it is in Germany? What can you own? I know that nazi immediately banned gun ownership when they came to power.
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As much as I love the Garand and M1A for their historical value and rustic, traditional appearance, yes they are pretty guns, I will say if SHTF ditch these guns and get yourself one of these:
(http://bis.midco.net/mantraboy1/Sale/ar15.jpg)
This is the DPMS LR-308. It is an AR-10 configuration rifle chambered in the .308 caliber with a 24 inch stainless steel bull barrel for long range accuracy. Thes guns are compatible with SR-25 style 20 rnd .308 magazines. They have reported that these guns are as accurate to 1000 yards with proper ammunition as any bolt rifle. Probably more accurate, considering you don't have to c0ck the bolt after each shot.
This is my gun of choice along with a good Nightforce NXS-15 scope. I am ready for the arabic/urdu/pashto/farsi speaking zombies when they come to my house..
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As much as I love the Garand and M1A for their historical value and rustic, traditional appearance, yes they are pretty guns, I will say if SHTF ditch these guns and get yourself one of these:
(http://bis.midco.net/mantraboy1/Sale/ar15.jpg)
This is the DPMS LR-308. It is an AR-10 configuration rifle chambered in the .308 caliber with a 24 inch stainless steel bull barrel for long range accuracy. Thes guns are compatible with SR-25 style 20 rnd .308 magazines. They have reported that these guns are as accurate to 1000 yards with proper ammunition as any bolt rifle. Probably more accurate, considering you don't have to c0ck the bolt after each shot.
This is my gun of choice along with a good Nightforce NXS-15 scope. I am ready for the arabic/urdu/farsi speaking zombies when they come to my house..
Sadly I think arabic/urdu/farsi speaking zombies will be the last of our problems here in America. I actually fear that what may come a knocking might be a lot closer to home.
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Oh yeah forgot the afro zombies too.. Well, I don't know if you realize this, but they found an Al Queda training camp right here in the Pacific Northwest that was being used to train some of the most notorious men right under our noses. YOu think with all the muslims in this country, that you will not have to confront them sooner or later? A good Jewish friend of mine had his life threatened by a Palestinain woman who lived in same town is him. He is at the shooting range every week preparing for the confrontation with her and her sand N*gro raghead cousins , uncles , brothers. YOur enemy is never far away.
So, on that note, buy a gun that has maximum effectiveness for the price, not one that has the most historical value or the best collector's item.
BTW... If your faced with a raghead zombie attack.. forget the shotgun.. You will need something that has high capacity, good penetration and has minimum recovery time between shots. That is, you want to be able to get off as many rounds as possible. A .308 would be great for mid range combat, lets say the ragheads are approaching your hosue from 50 yards away. However, when the jihadists get too close, thats when its time to bust out the AR-15s with 62-70grain hollow point/ballistic tip defense type rounds. These type of cartridges will generally kill a raghead on contact.. And, will allow for fast follow up shots, due to lesser recoil. Our soldiers are stuck using mediocre M855 green tip stuff that is not very effective in expanding and usually will not kill an enemy without pumping 3 or 4 well placed shots into the target. However, civilians are not limited to low grade ammo like our soldiers are.
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They are very sharp looking guns and I am sure that they will serve far better than an old M1A. Here on Long Island NY everything is very close together and there is no need for accuracy of more then a few hundred feet in any direction. I tend to think for distance like that a 12 gauge pump or even a double barrel shot gun would be a very good deterrent. The wide swat that a gun like that cuts usually sets all but the most determined animal running.
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You rifle is sweet! I used to own Kel Tech SU-16a rifle and did not really like it. It jammed alot and I think 5.56 calibre is just too lacking stopping power.
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/big/su16A_01.jpg
My next rifle should be SOCOM M14 riflie 7.62mm, something like that:
http://www.m1arifles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/m1a-socom-ii-rifle.jpg
Shotguns are great for home defense - you have 8 rounds and the clicking noise that they make is enough to dissuade most intruders.
I also like Magpul Masada and perhaps I will get the new bulpup Tavor in 5.56 or 7.62, if available.
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You rifle is sweet! I used to own Kel Tech SU-16a rifle and did not really like it. It jammed alot and I think 5.56 calibre is just too lacking stopping power.
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/big/su16A_01.jpg
My next rifle should be SOCOM M14 riflie 7.62mm, something like that:
http://www.m1arifles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/m1a-socom-ii-rifle.jpg
Shotguns are great for home defense - you have 8 rounds and the clicking noise that they make is enough to dissuade most intruders.
I also like Magpul Masada and perhaps I will get the new bulpup Tavor in 5.56 or 7.62, if available.
Well, I think you are right on for looking into the Magpul. As far as 5.56 not having enough stopping power, that debate has been going on for half a generation. And, from my own research, I can determine the 5.56 does not lack stopping power, rather it lacks proper configuration in the battlefield. Civilians can own ballistic-tip, hollow-point, high-grain 5.56 cartridges that the military is not allowed to use. The military is confined to NATO ball ammo, which will be of the M193 or M855 penetrator variety. Both these ammos lack stopping power, because they are full metal jacket and have minimum expansion on the targets they hit. Also, the military is stuck using bullets of a weight ranging from 55gr- 62 gr bullets.
I have an LMT AR-15 rifle that has a 1:7 twist barrel that can easily stablize the heavier weight bullets compared to a 1:9 twist barrel. All mil-spec weapons are using the higher twist rate on their M-16/AR-15 rifles, but the military rarely utilizes the heavier weight bullets that these type of guns are capable of handling. The result is, you have a gun that is not used to its fullest potential. However, Joe American Consumer is not restricted to all kinds of NATO/UN bullsh*t that our military is and we can purchase any type of rifle configuration and cartridge we wish.
So, my AR-15 guns will serve me much better than any 7.62 x 51 (.308) rifle at close range, because in close quarter combat, you need to have time to make fast follow up shots. WIth a .308 the recoil will certainly inhibit you. I will load my LMT rifle with 64gr-77gr bullets which have very close stopping power to 6.8mm round, which is a step up from the 5.56. NOw, add to that a ballistic tip or hollow point that violently expands into human flesh , you have yourself a very powerful round. 6.8mm would be a great choice, if it wasn't so damn expensive to use this ammo. Unfortunately, the military doesn't utilize this round, so there is not much of a market for it.
Not all 5.56 is the same, do some investigation before you make a claim that the entier round is not effective. The round shot out of an AK is 7.62 x 39 is also very ineffective, but does have a harder punch. the 7.62 x 39 of th AK-47 is a round that is not aerodynamic and generally results in poor accuracy once you start getting past 50 yards. Its not uncommon for these bullets to curve left or right of your target.
The 7.62 x 51 is the best man stopper for longer range targets, but at close range its not a better round to use than a 5.56 using a higher weight hollow point/Bal TIp bullet.
This is a good example of the type of ammunition I would use in a attack where islamic-zombies are raiding my house. One moderately well placed shot with this round and your target is likely going down. Remember at close range, the .308 will also have overpenetration. You don't want that.
Shotgun is good for home defense. Forget about using the clicking sound to scare away an intruder, that's an old wives tale. My shotgun uses 12 round magazines and I don't have to worry about running out of ammo so much with it. Nonetheless the thing kicks like a mule.. Not always ideal for multiple attackers. If you under attack by muzzies, don't bother with a shotgun.
(http://home.comcast.net/~gocartmozart/hornady_catalog_06_boxes_556_resized.jpg)
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Shotgun is good for home defense. Forget about using the clicking sound to scare away an intruder, that's an old wives tale. My shotgun uses 12 round magazines and I don't have to worry about running out of ammo so much with it. Nonetheless the thing kicks like a mule.. Not always ideal for multiple attackers. If you under attack by muzzies, don't bother with a shotgun.
(http://home.comcast.net/~gocartmozart/hornady_catalog_06_boxes_556_resized.jpg)
I love your statement about shotgun! In general, I agree with you post - it is very informative and well researched. I still like to have 7.62 SOCOM M14 - it will be great for range practices. What do you think about Magpul vs. Tavor?
Thank you!
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I really need one too! But this damn gun controle... >:(
how bad it is in Germany? What can you own? I know that nazi immediately banned gun ownership when they came to power.
I can own actually nothing. I need a license for a Gas Pistol. Knifes are illegal if they are to long. And for normal Pistols or even rifles you need a license and a test. You need a safe where you must put the weapon in and another safe to put the ammunition in. Stupid...
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I love your statement about shotgun! In general, I agree with you post - it is very informative and well researched. I still like to have 7.62 SOCOM M14 - it will be great for range practices. What do you think about Magpul vs. Tavor?
Thank you!
Well, thats a tough question for me since I never operated either gun. I think the Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR may be one of the revolutionary rifles to hit the market. It is a tactial battle rifle that looks similar to the FN Scar design. However, this gun I think will be a great improvement over the flawed FN Scar and probably cost more than half less of the FN Scar's ($4000) price tag. The FN Scar is a jam-o-matic from what I have been told. The Magpul Masada also has incorporated some of the better features of various other rifles along with the SCAR, such as the H&K G36. Bushmaster ACR and Magpul Madada are the same gun, its just that Bushmaster bought the rights to manufacture the gun using their name. The Magpul Masada has some advantages over the Tavor in the fact that it is a modular design. You can interchange parts on the Masada as well as replace the barrels. The Masada will allow you to switch from a 5.56 to a 6.8 to a .308 caliber in a matter of minutes using the replaceable barrels. This is a very important feature in the battlefield, seeing you don't know what type of scenario you may face and that certain calibers are better for certain situations and carrying two guns is not a feasible option.
The Tavor is probably the best bullpup-style rifle on the market. Some love this design, others hate it. I have never really shot a bullpup style rifle and don't know whether I would prefer it or not. The Tavor would obviously be great in close range combat, like for clearing rooms in a house. I also hear for its size its highly accurate and resiliant to all forms of external stress, such as weather, sand, water, etc. The Tavor also comes with a real cool reflex sight that is built into the gun. Some may or may not like the fact that they don't have the option to replace this optic. Maybe the newer Tavors allow you to replace the built-in reflex sight.
I think the Magpul Masada will prove to be a better gun, but it is like comparing apples and oranges, since both may prove to have advantages in different areas.
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I really need one too! But this damn gun controle... >:(
how bad it is in Germany? What can you own? I know that nazi immediately banned gun ownership when they came to power.
I can own actually nothing. I need a license for a Gas Pistol. Knifes are illegal if they are to long. And for normal Pistols or even rifles you need a license and a test. You need a safe where you must put the weapon in and another safe to put the ammunition in. Stupid...
Do it! Take a test, sign for a club membership, buy a gun, keep it locked in the safe! It is best to have and never use it. Very similar gun control restrictions are in Canada. It will only get worse.
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I think the Magpul Masada will prove to be a better gun, but it is like comparing apples and oranges, since both may prove to have advantages in different areas.
Thanks MountainMan - I will do more research on this. I've never shot a bulpup and not sure how comfortable they are for a big guy. I love everything about Magpul, though! The ability to change the barrel is not that important to most front line troops, but it is really cool for private owners.
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I have a springfield M1g in 308..
Very nice gun. Takes a bit to get used to.
A bit more PC than an assault rifle.
Might not be a worry to you.
I have AKs, AR's, and an M1a..
They are really just tools.
The right tool for the right job.
bob
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Without a scope, in an urban area, the average person with one eye closed can barely make out a human figure much beyond 100 yards.
For most purposes, the 177 bullets of the American 180 are more than adequate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYXifOyNk1s&feature=related
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa149/Nolo_photo/am180-1.jpg)
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/VegasSMG/Bazooka%20Brothers%20Adapter/180Drumsadapter012.jpg)