JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Irish Zionist on July 07, 2009, 03:21:43 PM
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Ultra-orthodox activists claim opening of parking space near holy sites desecrates Jewish holy day of the Sabbath
Police in Jerusalem were preparing for fierce clashes tomrrow, as ultra-orthodox Jewish demonstrators threatened to escalate protests over a car park, which they say desecrates the Sabbath.
The religious protesters have hurled rocks, set fire to rubbish bins and denounced the police as "Nazis" who would "burn in hell" during demonstrations over the past few weeks against the city council's decision to provide free municipal parking near Jerusalem's Old City for tourists on Saturdays.
Protesters have blocked roads and disrupted traffic, while the city's secular mayor, Nir Barkat, has received death threats, according to a police spokesman.
A few weeks ago, the controversy attracted 30,000 ultra-orthodox residents to pray in protest at the new car park. The weekend before last saw 57 people arrested, most of whom were subsequently released, although a number have been charged with assault.
The row has also prompted counter-demonstrations from secular residents urging Barkat not to cave in to "religious coercion".
The ultra-orthodox sector – also called "Haredi" or God-fearing – adheres to strict religious codes, of which observing the Sabbath is a central tenet.
They view the decision to open a municipal parking lot as a move that sanctions driving, and indirectly promotes trading on Saturdays – both forbidden according to ultra-orthodox practice – and hence considers it to be a city-wide cancellation of the Sabbath.
"Our struggle is not over a car park, but about the character of Jerusalem," said Shmuel Poppenheim, of the ultra-religious Eda Haredit group, which has organised most of the protests.
"If the mayor decides today that he can open a car park on a Saturday, who knows what he will decide to do tomorrow."
City council representatives have said that the decision to open the parking lot was in response to a chronic shortage of weekend parking.
The new car park was approved, officials say, in response to police reports that increasing numbers of tourists and day-trippers were depositing dangerously parked cars around the Old City.
Barkat, who was elected mayor last November, sees attracting tourism as part of his economic growth plan for the city, where the usually low-income ultra-orthodox sector is expected to form the majority of the Jewish population within the next decade.
The car-park clashes are seen to represent a stand-off between the mayor and Jerusalem's growing ultra-religious community. Members of this sector have said that the issue is a "cultural war", through which Barkat seeks to turn Jerusalem into another Tel Aviv – where numerous businesses, including shops, cafes and car parks, remain open on Saturdays.
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I dont agree that these protests are a good thing. I am a Shabbat observer and I don't drive on Shabbat. I also am against other Jews from driving on the Shabbat. I am very upset that the Israeli government has offered free parking on Shabbat which will reward Shabbat desecrators... But I also think that burning trash and causing violence is not a Kiddush Hashem {Sanctification of Hashems name}.
Something must be done to honor the Shabbat, but causing this kind of division within Klal Yisroel is a very dangerous thing to do...
I daven to Hashem daily to show my brothers and sisters the light, so that they should keep Shabbat and live.
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I can understand the Haredi outrage over this blatant secularism but I wish these folks would rise up and riot when their leaders hand over massive chunks of Biblical land to the devil and ethnically cleanse thousands of Jews, sometimes beating and raping them in the process.
Until that happens, I can't get on board with these guys.
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If the Jewish people will not keep the mitzvot of Hashem, of which Shabbat observance is obviously one of the most important {due to it's mention numerous times in Chumash}, then the land will spit out the Jews. This is a promise from the Ribbono Shel Olam himself... It is PARAMOUNT for JEWS everywhere to observe Shabbat to the best of their mortal ability. There will be no Jews, no Israel, if they do not keep the Shabbat. It is more important than who possess the land at this particular time... I truly believe that Jews will be kicked out of Israel if they do not keep mitzvot... One only has to read Parasha Ki Savo:
15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee. 16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy kneading-trough. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the young of thy flock. 19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out. 20 The LORD will send upon thee cursing, discomfiture, and rebuke, in all that thou puttest thy hand unto to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the evil of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken Me. 21 The LORD will make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until He have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest in to possess it. 22 The LORD will smite thee with consumption, and with fever, and with inflammation, and with fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. 23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. 24 The LORD will make the rain of thy land powder and dust; from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 25 The LORD will cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies; thou shalt go out one way against them, and shalt flee seven ways before them; and thou shalt be a horror unto all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 And thy carcasses shall be food unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and there shall be none to frighten them away. 27 The LORD will smite thee with the boil of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. 28 The LORD will smite thee with madness, and with blindness, and with astonishment of heart. 29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not make thy ways prosperous; and thou shalt be only oppressed and robbed alway, and there shall be none to save thee. 30 Thou shalt betroth a wife, and another man shall lie with her; thou shalt build a house, and thou shalt not dwell therein; thou shalt plant a vineyard, and shalt not use the fruit thereof. 31 Thine ox shall be slain before thine eyes, and thou shalt not eat thereof; thine ass shall be violently taken away from before thy face, and shall not be restored to thee; thy sheep shall be given unto thine enemies; and thou shalt have none to save thee. 32 Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people, and thine eyes shall look, and fail with longing for them all the day; and there shall be nought in the power of thy hand. 33 The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed away: 34 so that thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see. 35 The LORD will smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore boil, whereof thou canst not be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the crown of thy head. 36 The LORD will bring thee, and thy king whom thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation that thou hast not known, thou nor thy fathers; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone. 37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all the peoples whither the LORD shall lead thee away. 38 Thou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather little in; for the locust shall consume it. 39 Thou shalt plant vineyards and dress them, but thou shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worm shall eat them. 40 Thou shalt have olive-trees throughout all thy borders, but thou shalt not anoint thyself with the oil; for thine olives shall drop off. 41 Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but they shall not be thine; for they shall go into captivity. 42 All thy trees and the fruit of thy land shall the locust possess. 43 The stranger that is in the midst of thee shall mount up above thee higher and higher; and thou shalt come down lower and lower. 44 He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him; he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail. 45 And all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou didst not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded thee. 46 And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever; 47 because thou didst not serve the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, by reason of the abundance of all things; 48 therefore shalt thou serve thine enemy whom the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things; and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. 49 The LORD will bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as the vulture swoopeth down; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; 50 a nation of fierce countenance, that shall not regard the person of the old, nor show favour to the young. 51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy ground, until thou be destroyed; that also shall not leave thee corn, wine, or oil, the increase of thy kine, or the young of thy flock, until he have caused thee to perish. 52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fortified walls come down, wherein thou didst trust, throughout all thy land; and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. 53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters whom the LORD thy God hath given thee; in the siege and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall straiten thee. 54 The man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil against his brother, and against the wife of his bosom, and against the remnant of his children whom he hath remaining; 55 so that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat, because he hath nothing left him; in the siege and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall straiten thee in all thy gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil against the husband of her bosom, and against her son, and against her daughter; 57 and against her afterbirth that cometh out from between her feet, and against her children whom she shall bear; for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly; in the siege and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall straiten thee in thy gates. 58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and awful Name, the LORD thy God; 59 then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. 60 And He will bring back upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast in dread of; and they shall cleave unto thee. 61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou didst not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. 63 And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to cause you to perish, and to destroy you; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest in to possess it. 64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all peoples, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou nor thy fathers, even wood and stone. 65 And among these nations shalt thou have no repose, and there shall be no rest for the sole of thy foot; but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and languishing of soul. 66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear night and day, and shalt have no assurance of thy life. 67 In the morning thou shalt say: 'Would it were even!' and at even thou shalt say: 'Would it were morning!' for the fear of thy heart which thou shalt fear, and for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see. 68 And the LORD shall bring thee back into Egypt in ships, by the way whereof I said unto thee: 'Thou shalt see it no more again'; and there ye shall sell yourselves unto your enemies for bondmen and for bondwoman, and no man shall buy you. {S} 69 These are the words of the covenant which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which He made with them in Horeb. {P}
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If the Jewish people will not keep the mitzvot of Hashem, of which Shabbat observance is obviously one of the most important {due to it's mention numerous times in Chumash}, then the land will spit out the Jews. This is a promise from the Ribbono Shel Olam himself... It is PARAMOUNT for JEWS everywhere to observe Shabbat to the best of their mortal ability. There will be no Jews, no Israel, if they do not keep the Shabbat. It is more important than who possess the land at this particular time... I truly believe that Jews will be kicked out of Israel if they do not keep mitzvot... One only has to read
I think there was a philosopher who said that Shabbat keeps Israel more than Israel keeps Shabbat. He meant that Shabbat is important to the existence of Israel and the Jews.
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I think that it is none of these haredi's business if I want to drive on Shabbas and go to the Kotel / Wailling Wall. It is between me and G-d. These anti-zionist clowns should serve in the army first, and then have a say as to what I can or can't do. Open the parkade!
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Manch does have a point. Many of the protesters are anti-Zionists. Whether or not they are truly evil like the NK or simply blindly ape what their rebbes say is irrelevant. It's time for them to be part of the solution in Israel across the board, not just on the Sabbath.
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I think people are missing the point... There will be no Jewish Israel if the Jews do not keep Shabbat. I think it is suicidal to openly violate Shabbat in the holy land. It is a crime worse than being homosexual... Why protest homosexuality if you are a Shabbat desecrator? They both require a penalty of death by the beit din...
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When they riot on Shabbat like they did they ain't no different from the ones who drive on Shabbat.
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I think people are missing the point... There will be no Jewish Israel if the Jews do not keep Shabbat. I think it is suicidal to openly violate Shabbat in the holy land. It is a crime worse than being homosexual... Why protest homosexuality if you are a Shabbat desecrator? They both require a penalty of death by the beit din...
muman, these sanctimonious hypocrites are the last one to tell other Jews what to do on Shabbat. You want to observe Shabbat - I am all for it! I am for government observing Shabbat as well.
However, I don't observe Shabbat - stay out of my business. Like I said, I may want to drive from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to go to Kotel or to go to the beach. What's that to you or anyone else? The wonderful Jews of Israel already doing the greatest mitzva simply by being Zionist and living there.
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I think they can do whatever they want. These guys will pay for opposing the existence of a Jewish state. And while keeping Shabbat could use better proponents, the cause isn't wrong.
If you want people to stay out of your business Manch, you better be prepared to make them. People will be putting themselves in your business ALL YOUR LIFE. Words rarely work on such people.
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I think people are missing the point... There will be no Jewish Israel if the Jews do not keep Shabbat. I think it is suicidal to openly violate Shabbat in the holy land. It is a crime worse than being homosexual... Why protest homosexuality if you are a Shabbat desecrator? They both require a penalty of death by the beit din...
muman, these sanctimonious hypocrites are the last one to tell other Jews what to do on Shabbat. You want to observe Shabbat - I am all for it! I am for government observing Shabbat as well.
However, I don't observe Shabbat - stay out of my business. Like I said, I may want to drive from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem to go to Kotel or to go to the beach. What's that to you or anyone else? The wonderful Jews of Israel already doing the greatest mitzva simply by being Zionist and living there.
Manch,
Obviously being a Jew is not important to you. The reason Jews are Jews is because we have kept the covenant which Hashem has given us. If we want to be like the other nations then we cease being Jewish. Obviously it is more important to go to the beach than to read Torah for you, and for a lot of 'jews'. This is why we will loose the land. This is over your head and I don't expect a secular Jew to understand. We will be destroyed by our enemies because you NEED TO GO TO THE BEACH ON SHABBAT... Maybe go to a massage parlor, or maybe visit a prostitute... Why not?
Maybe someone need to tell G-D Almighty to stay out of our business...
PS: Nowhere is it written or said that living in the land excuses one from observing the mitzvot.
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Manch,
Obviously being a Jew is not important to you. The reason Jews are Jews is because we have kept the covenant which Hashem has given us. If we want to be like the other nations then we cease being Jewish. Obviously it is more important to go to the beach than to read Torah for you, and for a lot of 'jews'. This is why we will loose the land. This is over your head and I don't expect a secular Jew to understand. We will be destroyed by our enemies because you NEED TO GO TO THE BEACH ON SHABBAT... Maybe go to a massage parlor, or maybe visit a prostitute... Why not?
Maybe someone need to tell G-D Almighty to stay out of our business...
PS: Nowhere is it written or said that living in the land excuses one from observing the mitzvot.
Muman, you are wrong - it is very important to me, I wouldn't be a member of the forum otherwise. If we loose Israel it is because secular Jews like me and religious Jews like you do not live in Israel. Moreover, it is because Jews like you are constantly seeking out what separates us instead of what unites us. And yes, it is between me and G-d what I do as far as keeping commandments - if you think you are better Jew because you don't drive on Shabbat or don't ride in the elevator - good luck to you!
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Manch,
Obviously being a Jew is not important to you. The reason Jews are Jews is because we have kept the covenant which Hashem has given us. If we want to be like the other nations then we cease being Jewish. Obviously it is more important to go to the beach than to read Torah for you, and for a lot of 'jews'. This is why we will loose the land. This is over your head and I don't expect a secular Jew to understand. We will be destroyed by our enemies because you NEED TO GO TO THE BEACH ON SHABBAT... Maybe go to a massage parlor, or maybe visit a prostitute... Why not?
Maybe someone need to tell G-D Almighty to stay out of our business...
PS: Nowhere is it written or said that living in the land excuses one from observing the mitzvot.
Muman, you are wrong - it is very important to me, I wouldn't be a member of the forum otherwise. If we loose Israel it is because secular Jews like me and religious Jews like you do not live in Israel. Moreover, it is because Jews like you are constantly seeking out what separates us instead of what unites us. And yes, it is between me and G-d what I do as far as keeping commandments - if you think you are better Jew because you don't drive on Shabbat or don't ride in the elevator - good luck to you!
So Judaism is about people doing what they want to do? Is that the case? Have you read our history? Do you know about our Holy Torah? If so you will realize the history of the Jews is NOT about doing whatever you want. Being a good Jew is about giving up our wants and desires in order to do the will of Hashem. This is the core of what Shabbat observance is... Don't you think all Jews would rather be out playing baseball or going to the beach instead of devoting the day to Davening, studying Torah, and having a festive meal? The History of the Jewish people is about sticking together and doing what Hashem wishes.
You must be one who does not hold our Holy Torah in high esteem. Unfortunately without the Torah the Jewish people are nothing. It is our light and our continued existance. Many cultures have risen to destroy the Torah, but it is still alive today. Without it there would be no Judaism, and no Jews. Torah is the tree of life for those who seek it. Those who reject it are dooming themselves to be cut from the tree, and the prophesied redemption which awaits the faithful. Even when I was far from it, I never denied it, and I always admitted to myself and others that I was wrong {for violating Shabbat, etc.}. People who flaunt the laws and are proud of it are considered heretics and apikorisis.
Judaism has certain creeds of faith... We cannot pick and choose which mitzvot to obey. Shabbat is a death penatly commandment, just like sexual perversion. You are a Jew by birth and that cannot be denied.... But while there is still time to do teshuva and my tefillah is that all the lost Jews will find the truth of Torah before their 120 years in this world.
PS: I do not have hard feelings... I would have been considered a heretic by some of my friends if they knew me about 10 years ago...
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http://www.ou.org/publications/kaplan/shabbat/why.htm
Why the Sabbath?
There is a miracle in Shabbos.
Even if you have never felt it yourself, it is there. It is one of the most important ingredients of Jewish survival.
It is no exaggeration to say that the Jew has survived two thousand years of persecution and humilitation largely because he had the Sabbath. It was one factor that not only made him survive, but kept him alive, both spiritually and morally. 1
Without the Sabbath, the Jew would have vanished. It has been said that as much as the Jew has kept Shabbos, so has Shabbos kept the Jew.
As long as Judaism exists as a vibrant, vital force, the Sabbath is its most outstanding ritual practice.
In order to understand this, you would have to experience a true traditional Shabbos. You would see a change take place, almost like magic. Take the poorest Jew, the most wretched person, and the Sabbath transforms him, as if by a miracle into a man of dignity and pride. He might be a beggar all week long, but on this one day, he is a true king.
There are hundreds of thousands of Jews who keep the Sabbath, with the number growing every year. To understand what Shabbos means, you must live it with them.
I remember once spending Shabbos with a poor working man in Williamsburg. He was a simple but pious man who did not have very much in the way of worldly goods. Seeing his cramped, dreary apartment, you might have pitied him, but at his Shabbos table, he sat like a king.
He made a remark that has remained with me all these years. "I pity people who don't keep Shabbos. I really pity them. They don't know what they are missing. They have no idea at all."
There is a Sabbath prayer that reads. "Rejoice in your kingdom, you who keep the Sabbath." The miracle of Shabbos is the kingdom of every Jew.
There is a miracle in the Sabbath.
Let us look into it more deeply.
The Primary Ritual
Two of the major parts of Judaism are the ethical and the ritual.
We can all understand the importance of the ethical laws of Judaism. None of us have any difficulty comprehending why the Torah tells us not to kill and steal, or why we must not shame or hurt another person.
On the other hand, Judaism contains many ritual laws, rules that strengthen man's relationship with G-d. These include the holidays, the Kashrus laws, and such things as Tallis, Tefillin and the Mezuzah. It is, in large part, these rituals that separate Judaism from all other ethical systems.
Among the many rituals of Judaism, we find one prime ritual that stands above the rest.
That is Shabbos - the Jewish Sabbath.
More than Rosh HaShanah, more than Yom Kippur, more than keeping Kosher or attending services, the Sabbath is the one ritual that marks the Jew.
It is the only ritual mentioned in the Ten Commandments.
Think about it for a moment. Of all the many rituals of Judaism, only one is mentioned in the Ten Commandments.
Many people claim that, to be a "good Jew", one need only observe the Ten Commandments. But if you do not keep the Sabbath, then you are only keeping nine of them.
At this point, the question must be forming in your mind, "But why? What is so special about the Sabbath? Why does it merit a place in the Ten Commandments? Why is it so important?"
The question becomes even stronger when we realize that, in ancient times, when Jews administered their own system of Justice, when capital punishment was administered, violating the Sabbath was a major crime, punishable, in extreme circumstances, by death.
The Torah openly states (Ex. 31:14), "You shall keep the Sabbath, for it is holy to you; any one who profanes it shall be put to death. For whoever does any work on that day shall be cut off from his people."
Put to death ... Cut off from his people ... Very strong terms indeed. But why?
In Torah law, we find that the penalty for violating the Sabbath was to be stoned to death, the worst possible form of execution. The Sabbath violator was put in the same category as the person who betrays his faith and his people. 2
Jewish law treats one who does not keep the Sabbath as one who abandons Judaism for another religion.
The Talmud flatly states, "Breaking the Sabbath is like worshipping idols." 3
In many respects, one who willingly and flagrantly does not keep the Sabbath is no longer considered part of the Jewish community. 4,5
But why should this be so?
One way of understanding it can be grasped by studying those authorities who take a more lenient view. They write that in modern times, one may extend to a Sabbath violator the privileges of being a Jew, for a very interesting reason. They state that no one would violate the Sabbath if he truly understood its meaning. Therefore, unless we have contrary evidence, we assume that a person violating the Sabbath is doing so out of ignorance, and therefore we treat him with sympathy and understanding rather than harshness.
All this highlights one point: The Sabbath is the most important institution of Judaism. It is the primary ritual, the very touchstone of our faith.
Not only is the Sabbath the only ritual appearing in the Ten Commandments, but it is also repeated more often in the Torah than any other commandment.
Our great prophets hardly ever mentioned any ritual. Their task was to admonish Israel with regard to faith and morality. But still, they placed a great emphasis on the Sabbath. 6
Throughout the Talmud, the Midrash, and the other great classical Jewish writings, we find that the Sabbath has a most central place in Jewish thought.
Classical Judaism does not recognize such divisions as Orthodox, Conservative and Reform. There were basically only two kinds of Jews, The Sabbath Observer (Shomer Shabbos), and the Sabbath Violator (MeChallel Shabbos).
There is absolutely no question that the Sabbath plays a most central role in Judaism. But we are still left with our original questions.
How does the Shabbos create such an atmosphere?
Why is it so important?
What makes it so central to Judaism?
Why is a person who violates the Sabbath counted as an apostate?
What is the real meaning of the Shabbos?
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Where in the Torah does it say I cannot drive a motor vehicle on Shabbat? I won't work or drive for the purpose of work, but that's not going to prevent me from driving. Nor do I refrain from tying my shoes and engaging in other non-laborious activities.
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Where in the Torah does it say I cannot drive a motor vehicle on Shabbat? I won't work or drive for the purpose of work, but that's not going to prevent me from driving. Nor do I refrain from tying my shoes and engaging in other non-laborious activities.
Are you being funny? You realize there are 39 melachot in Torah which we are prohibited from engaging in... One of the BIG ONES is creating a fire... Doesn't your car use a spark to create a fire in the engine block? You are burning when you are driving your car... Also there is a prohibition on traveling and carrying on Shabbat...
http://www.ou.org/publications/kaplan/shabbat/39.htm
2. Burning
This involves making a fire or causing anything to bum.
Even throwing a toothpick into a fire is considered a violation of the Sabbath under this category.
This is another category of work mentioned specifically in the Torah, as we find (Ex. 35:3), "You shall not light a fire at home on the Sabbath day."9
The use of fire is one of the prime ways in which man demonstrates his mastery over nature. Indeed, the use of fire is one of the cornerstones of human civilization. It is fire that allows man to extract energy, his most basic requirement, from nature. Thus, in a sense, it is also a prototype of Sabbath work.10
Obviously, this category forbids such acts as striking a match or turning on a stove.
It also prohibits smoking on the Sabbath.
An automobile engine works by burning gasoline. Turning on the ignition and stepping on the accelerator causes it to burn. It is therefore forbidden to drive a car on the Sabbath.
Heating a piece of metal so that it glows is also in the category of burning.11 When an electric light is turned on, its filament is heated white hot, producing light. This is therefore forbidden on the Sabbath.
In general, any use of electricity violates the spirit of the Sabbath, since it involves extracting energy from nature. According to many authorities, electricity has the same status as fire with regard to the Sabbath. In any case, the practice of all observant Jews is to avoid turning any electrical appliance on or off. Since a telephone also works by electricity, it also should not be used.12
BTW the 39 categories are:
1. Carrying
2. Burning
3. Extinguishing
4. Finishing
5. Writing
6. Erasing
7. Cooking
8. Washing
9. Sewing
10. Tearing
11. Knotting
12. Untying
13. Shaping
14. Plowing
15. Planting
16. Reaping
17. Harvesting
18. Threshing
19. Winnowing
20. Selecting
21. Sifting
22. Grinding
23. Kneading
24. Combing
25. Spinning
26. Dying
27. Chainstitching
28. Warping
29. Weaving
30. Unraveling
31. Building
32. Demolishing
33. Trapping
34. Shearing
35. Slaughtering
36. Skinning
37. Tanning
38. Smoothing
39. Marking
Regarding traveling on Shabbat I found the following Halachic discussion:
http://www.dailyhalacha.com/Display.asp?ClipDate=2/27/2008
Public Transportation and Air Travel on Shabbat
Is it permissible to travel on a bus, subway or trolley in Shabbat if payment is rendered before Shabbat such that no handling of money is involved?
Rav Shemuel Pinhasi (contemporary), in his work "Daber Davar" (1:21; listen to audio recording for precise citation), rules that traveling on public transportation on Shabbat is strictly forbidden under all circumstances. If one travels outside his city, then the trip is certainly forbidden due to the prohibition of "Tehum Shabbat" – traveling a distance of two thousands cubits outside one's city. And even traveling within the city, Rav Pinhasi writes, entails several Shabbat prohibitions, including the prohibition of "Uvda De'hol" – performing weekday activity. Furthermore, one's mere presence on a bus or train may constitute a Shabbat violation in that it increases the activity of the vehicle's engine. The Hatam Sofer (Rabbi Moshe Sofer, Hungary, 1762-1839) went so far as to classify those who travel by train on Shabbat under the category of "Mumar" (apostates). In any event, the consensus among all authorities is that one may not travel by public transportation on Shabbat, even for the purpose of a Misva such as attending the synagogue, and even if the conductor/driver and crew are all non-Jews. Rav Ovadia Yosef codifies this Halacha in his work Yehaveh Da'at (6:16).
Similarly, it is forbidden for a person to travel in an airplane during Shabbat, even if he boards before Shabbat and disembarks only after Shabbat. This often occurs on westbound flights from Los Angeles to the Far East that leave Los Angeles on Friday afternoon. The plane flies through time zones where it is currently Shabbat, and then lands in the Far East on Saturday night. Rav Pinhasi (Daber Davar 11:15) rules that it is forbidden to take such a flight even if the pilot and crew members are not Jewish, since one's mere presence on the airplane increases the engine's activity. Furthermore, it is all but impossible to avoid activating electricity while walking about the aircraft, not to mention that one will be unable to recite Kiddush and conduct a Shabbat meal as required by Halacha under such circumstances.
Summary: It is forbidden to travel on public transportation vehicles on Shabbat under any circumstance, even if one paid before Shabbat. It is likewise forbidden to fly in an airplane on Shabbat, even if one boards before Shabbat and disembarks after Shabbat.
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I am not going to debate whether Shabbat is important to Jewish survival... The answer is obvious...
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I agree with Muman on this issue.
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Where in the Torah does it say I cannot drive a motor vehicle on Shabbat? I won't work or drive for the purpose of work, but that's not going to prevent me from driving. Nor do I refrain from tying my shoes and engaging in other non-laborious activities.
Are you being funny? You realize there are 39 melachot in Torah which we are prohibited from engaging in... One of the BIG ONES is creating a fire... Doesn't your car use a spark to create a fire in the engine block? You are burning when you are driving your car... Also there is a prohibition on traveling and carrying on Shabbat...
This is interpretation and not literalism. The Torah expressly forbids the kindling of fire in one's habitation on the Sabbath day. I kindle no fires in my home on the Sabbath - usually.
I say usually because I still take hot showers, which requires the boiler. I also heat the home. There have been days where it was -35 Celsius outside (about the same in Fahrenheit) and I had to turn the heat up, or at the very least, leave it on. I know not what would have happen if had I turned it off, but the pipe may well have burst. Even were I to install an electrical heating system at tremendous cost to myself, I would still have had to avail myself of electricity generated by the combustion of coal.
If burning is taken to mean the chemical reaction between a fuel and an oxidant, then this occurs at a cellular level and is unavoidable in living humans. Therefore, I presume that this definition is by no means intended, and I stick to exactly what the Torah says and not all speculation within the realm of possibility.
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Where in the Torah does it say I cannot drive a motor vehicle on Shabbat? I won't work or drive for the purpose of work, but that's not going to prevent me from driving. Nor do I refrain from tying my shoes and engaging in other non-laborious activities.
Are you being funny? You realize there are 39 melachot in Torah which we are prohibited from engaging in... One of the BIG ONES is creating a fire... Doesn't your car use a spark to create a fire in the engine block? You are burning when you are driving your car... Also there is a prohibition on traveling and carrying on Shabbat...
This is interpretation and not literalism. The Torah expressly forbids the kindling of fire in one's habitation on the Sabbath day. I kindle no fires in my home on the Sabbath - usually.
I say usually because I still take hot showers, which requires the boiler. I also heat the home. There have been days where it was -35 Celsius outside (about the same in Fahrenheit) and I had to turn the heat up, or at the very least, leave it on. I know not what would have happen if had I turned it off, but the pipe may well have burst. Even were I to install an electrical heating system at tremendous cost to myself, I would still have had to avail myself of electricity generated by the combustion of coal.
If burning is taken to mean the chemical reaction between a fuel and an oxidant, then this occurs at a cellular level and is unavoidable in living humans. Therefore, I presume that this definition is by no means intended, and I stick to exactly what the Torah says and not all speculation within the realm of possibility.
Are you a posek? It's pretty clear what the halacha is regarding driving and electricity on shabbat.
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Where in the Torah does it say I cannot drive a motor vehicle on Shabbat? I won't work or drive for the purpose of work, but that's not going to prevent me from driving. Nor do I refrain from tying my shoes and engaging in other non-laborious activities.
Are you being funny? You realize there are 39 melachot in Torah which we are prohibited from engaging in... One of the BIG ONES is creating a fire... Doesn't your car use a spark to create a fire in the engine block? You are burning when you are driving your car... Also there is a prohibition on traveling and carrying on Shabbat...
This is interpretation and not literalism. The Torah expressly forbids the kindling of fire in one's habitation on the Sabbath day. I kindle no fires in my home on the Sabbath - usually.
I say usually because I still take hot showers, which requires the boiler. I also heat the home. There have been days where it was -35 Celsius outside (about the same in Fahrenheit) and I had to turn the heat up, or at the very least, leave it on. I know not what would have happen if had I turned it off, but the pipe may well have burst. Even were I to install an electrical heating system at tremendous cost to myself, I would still have had to avail myself of electricity generated by the combustion of coal.
If burning is taken to mean the chemical reaction between a fuel and an oxidant, then this occurs at a cellular level and is unavoidable in living humans. Therefore, I presume that this definition is by no means intended, and I stick to exactly what the Torah says and not all speculation within the realm of possibility.
Are you a Jew? If so then you have rejected the Oral law... The oral law is clear that burning is a violation of Shabbat and a punishable offense. You can rationalize all you like but the truth is the truth, and it is harsh for you...
Burning is creating a fire... You do this when you drive.. Also the prohibition is not just burning in your home. Do some research and learn about halacha...
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Muman, you make all good points insofar as your description of the importance of Shabbat and I respect you for that. What I am saying it is my business and not yours or anyone else what I am doing on Shabbat. Of course you wont agree, that is why Judaism and State if Israel should be separate, while the state should obviously carry Jewish religious attributes and promote them without imposing them on its citizen or private enterprises.
PS - As far as driving on Shabbat or using electricity - think of ignition switch as my Shabbat Goy.
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Most Israelis are secular and against any kind of ban whether it's stores, transportation, car parks, etc on the Sabbath. I respect them for their protest but it's a losing battle against a strong majority.
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Where in the Torah does it say I cannot drive a motor vehicle on Shabbat? I won't work or drive for the purpose of work, but that's not going to prevent me from driving. Nor do I refrain from tying my shoes and engaging in other non-laborious activities.
Are you being funny? You realize there are 39 melachot in Torah which we are prohibited from engaging in... One of the BIG ONES is creating a fire... Doesn't your car use a spark to create a fire in the engine block? You are burning when you are driving your car... Also there is a prohibition on traveling and carrying on Shabbat...
This is interpretation and not literalism. The Torah expressly forbids the kindling of fire in one's habitation on the Sabbath day. I kindle no fires in my home on the Sabbath - usually.
I say usually because I still take hot showers, which requires the boiler. I also heat the home. There have been days where it was -35 Celsius outside (about the same in Fahrenheit) and I had to turn the heat up, or at the very least, leave it on. I know not what would have happen if had I turned it off, but the pipe may well have burst. Even were I to install an electrical heating system at tremendous cost to myself, I would still have had to avail myself of electricity generated by the combustion of coal.
If burning is taken to mean the chemical reaction between a fuel and an oxidant, then this occurs at a cellular level and is unavoidable in living humans. Therefore, I presume that this definition is by no means intended, and I stick to exactly what the Torah says and not all speculation within the realm of possibility.
Are you a Jew? If so then you have rejected the Oral law... The oral law is clear that burning is a violation of Shabbat and a punishable offense. You can rationalize all you like but the truth is the truth, and it is harsh for you...
Burning is creating a fire... You do this when you drive.. Also the prohibition is not just burning in your home. Do some research and learn about halacha...
Yes, I'm Jewish, and my willingness to flush a toilet on a Friday night doesn't change that.
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I apologize for my tone. I have been studying for the last few hours and I have realized that I am approaching this issue incorrectly. My only desire is to bring my fellow Jew to honor and elevate Hashems name in this world. It bothers me all this division within our people. I realize that the spiritual aspect of Judaism is not attractive to all of the people of our heritage. It is wrong to prematurely judge our fellow Jews harshly, and I always attempt to give the benefit of the doubt, and to judge favorably my people.
My personal story is complex and I have led a very secular life until about seven years ago. I have learned so much in this time and I have seen so much of Hashems hand in my life and I have absolute faith that we, the Jews, have a unique destiny in this world. We should be motivated to expose the light which the Creator has bestowed on us, to reveal the glory of Hashems mastery of the world.
I can only suggest that you search yourself for the truth and to look at our forefathers who have established the laws and the customs which we observe today. These people were not fools. These people are our sages, the likes of Rambam, Ramban, Rashi, The Vilna Goan, Chofetz Chaim, and there are many others. Do not just write them off. Do not dismiss them as old fools who are seeking power. The Rabbis are the thing which keeps the Jewish people Jewish. I do not believe we are just like the other nations. I see and feel the difference and understand why Hashem placed these sages into our midst.
Do not judge me harshly as I seek to be like Aaron, a man of peace, and like Pinchas, who is also a man of peace. Read this Shabbats parasha to learn why we call Pinchas a man of peace.
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Don't get me wrong. I don't advocate that anybody violates the Sabbath. I am not unsympathetic to the angered haredim. I just wish that they would stop being anti-Zionists, and would throw all of their might into resisting and fighting whenever the kapo government of Israel proposes handing land over to the devil. If they would start resisting surrenders and ethnic cleansings the way Hayamin does, it would be a LOT harder for the Nazi regime that currently rules the holy land to implement its agenda. They have the numbers and the organization to make the Israeli right a force to be reckoned with.
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Don't get me wrong. I don't advocate that anybody violates the Sabbath. I am not unsympathetic to the angered haredim. I just wish that they would stop being anti-Zionists, and would throw all of their might into resisting and fighting whenever the kapo government of Israel proposes handing land over to the devil. If they would start resisting surrenders and ethnic cleansings the way Hayamin does, it would be a LOT harder for the Nazi regime that currently rules the holy land to implement its agenda. They have the numbers and the organization to make the Israeli right a force to be reckoned with.
HI,
I mostly agree with you... BUT... We all agree that the current Israeli government is not righteous in the least. Why should someone join an army which is not righteous and will be used {or not used} to carry out operations to evict Jews? Or maybe they will not be used to protect Jewish citizens in their own land. I don't really support joining such a military, just like some here have warned White Israelite to be wary of joining while Obama is president.
I believe all Jews, including Haredi, would fight to protect the land that they live in. I may be wrong but I have a feeling that a Jew will fight to live in his land.
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Don't get me wrong. I don't advocate that anybody violates the Sabbath. I am not unsympathetic to the angered haredim. I just wish that they would stop being anti-Zionists, and would throw all of their might into resisting and fighting whenever the kapo government of Israel proposes handing land over to the devil. If they would start resisting surrenders and ethnic cleansings the way Hayamin does, it would be a LOT harder for the Nazi regime that currently rules the holy land to implement its agenda. They have the numbers and the organization to make the Israeli right a force to be reckoned with.
HI,
I mostly agree with you... BUT... We all agree that the current Israeli government is not righteous in the least. Why should someone join an army which is not righteous and will be used {or not used} to carry out operations to evict Jews? Or maybe they will not be used to protect Jewish citizens in their own land. I don't really support joining such a military, just like some here have warned White Israelite to be wary of joining while Obama is president.
I believe all Jews, including Haredi, would fight to protect the land that they live in. I may be wrong but I have a feeling that a Jew will fight to live in his land.
Muman, Israel needs an army. Who's going to protect Israelis against Hezbollah, Hamas, etc? There has to be a compromise here.
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It's admirable that you can follow the Rabbinical Judaism to great degree. Many Jews, however, cannot, and not for lack of respect of Hashem or for lack of want, but simply because it is impractical and, indeed, impossible in some cases.
While I'd like to be as observant as possible, it is only acceptable for me to follow what I consider to be the spirit of the law, which involves avoiding work, which I define as stuff I do not want to do.
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As a Gentile, halacha matters are none of my business. I have read my Bible and am well-aware of the case of the man who was gathering wood who was stoned to death for violating G-d's commandment on the Sabbath. However, I don't feel it's my place to demand that Jews be observant. I do wish they would stop being so secular, because the G-dless, Hellenistic, relativistic Westernized mindset of most Israelis is the reason that the Chosen Nation has been gradually committing suicide ever since 1967, but I myself don't feel comfortable getting involved in mitzvot debates.
All I will say is, again, I wish the haredim would violently fight every single abomination being perpetrated by the Israeli state, rather than the same couple ones over and over again.
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Where in the Torah does it say I cannot drive a motor vehicle on Shabbat? I won't work or drive for the purpose of work, but that's not going to prevent me from driving.
It's admirable that you can follow the Rabbinical Judaism to great degree. Many Jews, however, cannot, and not for lack of respect of Hashem or for lack of want, but simply because it is impractical and, indeed, impossible in some cases.
Judaism IS rabbinical. There is no alternative. G-d authorizes Rabbis to interprete the Law.
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8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, even matters of controversy within thy gates; then shalt thou arise, and get thee up unto the place which the LORD thy G-d shall choose.
9 And thou shall come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days; and thou shalt inquire; and they shall declare unto thee the sentence of judgment.
10 And thou shalt do according to the tenor of the sentence, which they shall declare unto thee from that place which the LORD shall choose; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they shall teach thee.
11 According to the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do; thou shalt not turn aside from the sentence which they shall declare unto thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.
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Deuteronomy 17, 8-11.
If you want to understand the logic of rabbis that forbade driving a car on Shabbat, it is a very good intention. It is pure Torah study, which is a great mitzvah. You can ask a rabbi to explain it to you, ask him all the hard questions you have.
But if one uses his/her intelligence to find an excuse not to do what the rabbis say, it is a great sin. By this apporoach one can easily find excuses not to perform any commandment one does not like, including those concerning the Land of Israel.
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Where in the Torah does it say I cannot drive a motor vehicle on Shabbat? I won't work or drive for the purpose of work, but that's not going to prevent me from driving. Nor do I refrain from tying my shoes and engaging in other non-laborious activities.
Are you being funny? You realize there are 39 melachot in Torah which we are prohibited from engaging in... One of the BIG ONES is creating a fire... Doesn't your car use a spark to create a fire in the engine block? You are burning when you are driving your car... Also there is a prohibition on traveling and carrying on Shabbat...
This is interpretation and not literalism. The Torah expressly forbids the kindling of fire in one's habitation on the Sabbath day. I kindle no fires in my home on the Sabbath - usually.
Literalism is not Jewish. It is Karaite. Karaim were a sect that rejected the Oral law. They are not considered Jewish today.
Even Nazis understood that. When they conquered Crimea peninsula in 1941, they massacred all the Jews but didn't do anything to the Karaites.
I say usually because I still take hot showers, which requires the boiler. I also heat the home. There have been days where it was -35 Celsius outside (about the same in Fahrenheit) and I had to turn the heat up, or at the very least, leave it on. I know not what would have happen if had I turned it off, but the pipe may well have burst.
This problem is not as hard as it seems :) Have you ever heard of Shaon Shabbat (Shabbat Clock) ? You can use it to set any electricity appliance to work at the hours you wish. It turns them on and off automatically.
Simple shaon shabbat
(http://media.shopy.co.il/shops/1072/products/p84206m.jpg)
Digital shaon shabbat (has many additional functions)
(http://www.i-feel.co.il/imgs/uploads/SSE/timer6.JPG)
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Karaites are Jews according to the Rambam, and a lot have made Aliyah to Israel, so they're Jewish as far as the law of return is concerned.
If you want to understand the logic of rabbis that forbade driving a car on Shabbat, it is a very good intention. It is pure Torah study, which is a great mitzvah. You can ask a rabbi to explain it to you, ask him all the hard questions you have.
I'll ask a reform rabbi.
I say usually because I still take hot showers, which requires the boiler. I also heat the home. There have been days where it was -35 Celsius outside (about the same in Fahrenheit) and I had to turn the heat up, or at the very least, leave it on. I know not what would have happen if had I turned it off, but the pipe may well have burst.
This problem is not as hard as it seems :) Have you ever heard of Shaon Shabbat (Shabbat Clock) ? You can use it to set any electricity appliance to work at the hours you wish. It turns them on and off automatically.
It's not all too difficult to refrain from small appliances, but climate control is another matter altogether.
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Karaites are Jews according to the Rambam, and a lot have made Aliyah to Israel, so they're Jewish as far as the law of return is concerned.
I am not sure whether the law of return allows immigration of Karaites to Israel, but in any case this law is not the criterion who is Jewish.
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Free parking especially in Jerusalem during Shabbat is VERY inappropriate and DOES reward unholy acts during Shabbat such as driving.
While I'm not on the side of these protesting ultraOrthodox Jews simply for their smugness on many issues and who sometimes single handedly make Judaism look undesirable to less religious Jews who otherwise love their religion, their right to protest in the way they are doing for the more important issue is appropriate..It brings attention to the issue of driving on Shabbat and why it shouldn't be done in ISrael especially Jerusalem..If they didn't protest violently, it might have not gotten in the newspaper.
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Where in the Torah does it say I cannot drive a motor vehicle on Shabbat? I won't work or drive for the purpose of work, but that's not going to prevent me from driving. Nor do I refrain from tying my shoes and engaging in other non-laborious activities.
Are you being funny? You realize there are 39 melachot in Torah which we are prohibited from engaging in... One of the BIG ONES is creating a fire... Doesn't your car use a spark to create a fire in the engine block? You are burning when you are driving your car... Also there is a prohibition on traveling and carrying on Shabbat...
This is interpretation and not literalism. The Torah expressly forbids the kindling of fire in one's habitation on the Sabbath day. I kindle no fires in my home on the Sabbath - usually.
I say usually because I still take hot showers, which requires the boiler. I also heat the home. There have been days where it was -35 Celsius outside (about the same in Fahrenheit) and I had to turn the heat up, or at the very least, leave it on. I know not what would have happen if had I turned it off, but the pipe may well have burst. Even were I to install an electrical heating system at tremendous cost to myself, I would still have had to avail myself of electricity generated by the combustion of coal.
If burning is taken to mean the chemical reaction between a fuel and an oxidant, then this occurs at a cellular level and is unavoidable in living humans. Therefore, I presume that this definition is by no means intended, and I stick to exactly what the Torah says and not all speculation within the realm of possibility.
Listen Yonah..I'm in the same boat as you, but please don't justify your shomer shabatness or that you're in you religious right and that Judaism allows US for doing these things on Shabbat..We aren't supposed to..Driving is an act of kindling fire. I drive on Shabbat..I awknowledge it's not appropriate to do so for Jews...end of story..You're not a Rabbi to justify any of these things...these things are wrong to do.
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Muman, you make all good points insofar as your description of the importance of Shabbat and I respect you for that. What I am saying it is my business and not yours or anyone else what I am doing on Shabbat. Of course you wont agree, that is why Judaism and State if Israel should be separate, while the state should obviously carry Jewish religious attributes and promote them without imposing them on its citizen or private enterprises.
PS - As far as driving on Shabbat or using electricity - think of ignition switch as my Shabbat Goy.
I agree with you..it is in no one's right to force any Jew to practice Judaism..this is the point of view of Chaim as well. The best way to make Jews shomer Shabbat is by encouraging it and through education glorifying Shomer Shabbat...in that right, you or me as an individual has the right to be what we want to be in the privacy of our homes.
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Karaites are Jews according to the Rambam, and a lot have made Aliyah to Israel, so they're Jewish as far as the law of return is concerned.
If you want to understand the logic of rabbis that forbade driving a car on Shabbat, it is a very good intention. It is pure Torah study, which is a great mitzvah. You can ask a rabbi to explain it to you, ask him all the hard questions you have.
I'll ask a reform rabbi.
In this case, don't ask anyone. :) Reformism has nothing to do with Judaism. It is the institutionalization of sin. I am happy that secular Israelis understand that too.
In 19th century, the reformists threw the words about the Return to Zion and Jerusalem from the prayer. They were saying that this idea is outdated and impractical.
I say usually because I still take hot showers, which requires the boiler. I also heat the home. There have been days where it was -35 Celsius outside (about the same in Fahrenheit) and I had to turn the heat up, or at the very least, leave it on. I know not what would have happen if had I turned it off, but the pipe may well have burst.
This problem is not as hard as it seems :) Have you ever heard of Shaon Shabbat (Shabbat Clock) ? You can use it to set any electricity appliance to work at the hours you wish. It turns them on and off automatically.
It's not all too difficult to refrain from small appliances, but climate control is another matter altogether.
It is the very same matter. The point is that you program the system before Shabbat and it does all the changes automatically. I don't know whether your system allows it but there are defenitely ones that do have such functionality.
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I was just joking about asking a reform rabbi :)
I say usually because I still take hot showers, which requires the boiler. I also heat the home. There have been days where it was -35 Celsius outside (about the same in Fahrenheit) and I had to turn the heat up, or at the very least, leave it on. I know not what would have happen if had I turned it off, but the pipe may well have burst.
This problem is not as hard as it seems :) Have you ever heard of Shaon Shabbat (Shabbat Clock) ? You can use it to set any electricity appliance to work at the hours you wish. It turns them on and off automatically.
It's not all too difficult to refrain from small appliances, but climate control is another matter altogether.
It is the very same matter. The point is that you program the system before Shabbat and it does all the changes automatically. I don't know whether your system allows it but there are defenitely ones that do have such functionality.
You live in Israel, right? Do you have air conditioning? Do you shut it off in the heat of summer for Shabbat?
If I shut the heat off at the wrong time, my pipes could freeze and burst or my tenants could die (or at the very least leave and deprive me of some income).
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I was just joking about asking a reform rabbi :)
I say usually because I still take hot showers, which requires the boiler. I also heat the home. There have been days where it was -35 Celsius outside (about the same in Fahrenheit) and I had to turn the heat up, or at the very least, leave it on. I know not what would have happen if had I turned it off, but the pipe may well have burst.
This problem is not as hard as it seems :) Have you ever heard of Shaon Shabbat (Shabbat Clock) ? You can use it to set any electricity appliance to work at the hours you wish. It turns them on and off automatically.
It's not all too difficult to refrain from small appliances, but climate control is another matter altogether.
It is the very same matter. The point is that you program the system before Shabbat and it does all the changes automatically. I don't know whether your system allows it but there are defenitely ones that do have such functionality.
You live in Israel, right? Do you have air conditioning? Do you shut it off in the heat of summer for Shabbat?
If I shut the heat off at the wrong time, my pipes could freeze and burst or my tenants could die (or at the very least leave and deprive me of some income).
Hi Yonah,
we have said that halacha permits using a Shabbat clock which can be programmed to turn appliances on and off at certain times. It is also OK, I believe , to use a thermostat which can automatically turn on an air conditioner when the temperature goes over a certain value.
There is also the idea of pikuie nefesh {to save a life} which allows anyone to transgress a mitzvah in order to save a life {there are boundries for this concept too}. If you felt that people may die if the heater is not on then you can turn on or light any fire.
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/26/Q1/
http://www.jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm
All of these tasks are prohibited, as well as any task that operates by the same principle or has the same purpose. In addition, the rabbis have prohibited handling any implement that is intended to perform one of the above purposes (for example, a hammer, a pencil or a match) unless the tool is needed for a permitted purpose (using a hammer to crack nuts when nothing else is available) or needs to be moved to do something permitted (moving a pencil that is sitting on a prayer book), or in certain other limited circumstances. Objects that may not be handled on Shabbat are referred to as "muktzeh," which means, "that which is set aside," because you set it aside (and don't use it unnecessarily) on Shabbat.
The rabbis have also prohibited travel, buying and selling, and other weekday tasks that would interfere with the spirit of Shabbat. The use of electricity is prohibited because it serves the same function as fire or some of the other prohibitions, or because it is technically considered to be "fire."
The issue of the use of an automobile on Shabbat, so often argued by non-observant Jews, is not really an issue at all for observant Jews. The automobile is powered by an internal combustion engine, which operates by burning gasoline and oil, a clear violation of the Torah prohibition against kindling a fire. In addition, the movement of the car would constitute transporting an object in the public domain, another violation of a Torah prohibition, and in all likelihood the car would be used to travel a distance greater than that permitted by rabbinical prohibitions. For all these reasons, and many more, the use of an automobile on Shabbat is clearly not permitted.
As with almost all of the commandments, all of these Shabbat restrictions can be violated if necessary to save a life.
In closing I agree that protesting in such a way is not a kiddush Hashem and is not beneficial to the cause. It does bring the issue to discussion and I hope that some may realize how important Shabbat is to Jewish continuity.
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It's not really to "save a life," I'm exaggerating a little, but I would be liable to a fine if I allowed the temperature inside the building to drop below 18 degrees Celsius during the winter.
What about an electric car, if not charge on Shabbat?
Do all orthodox authorities agree on the prohibition against driving, or are there are a few who consider it acceptable to drive to say, attend public services if it is otherwise not possible to attend public services?
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It's not really to "save a life," I'm exaggerating a little, but I would be liable to a fine if I allowed the temperature inside the building to drop below 18 degrees Celsius during the winter.
What about an electric car, if not charge on Shabbat?
Do all orthodox authorities agree on the prohibition against driving, or are there are a few who consider it acceptable to drive to say, attend public services if it is otherwise not possible to attend public services?
my understanding is that it is only the non orthodox movements that say it's ok to drive on shabbat.
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You live in Israel, right? Do you have air conditioning? Do you shut it off in the heat of summer for Shabbat?
I use shabbat clock to control air my conditioner. I usually set it to work from 7.00 PM to 9.00 AM. Actually I do it only in winter to turn the system for heating because it's rather cold in Jerusalem in winter.
In summer the heat doesn't bother me much, it's the bright sun beams that I can't stand, not the heat itself :)
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To a secular Jew like me, the fact that you use a clock, a contraption or a person (Shabbat Goy) to perform the same task as I, seems superfluous, at best. I can use an ignition key to do the same - after all, I don't burn anything, it is the ignition key that instructed the alternator to start the engine. I can hardly see how this makes you more spiritual. I don't want to pass a judgment, in fact I respect your ingenuity, but I can hardly admire it.
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To a secular Jew like me, the fact that you use a clock, a contraption or a person (Shabbat Goy) to perform the same task as I, seems superfluous, at best. I can use an ignition key to do the same - after all, I don't burn anything, it is the ignition key that instructed the alternator to start the engine. I can hardly see how this makes you more spiritual. I don't want to pass a judgment, in fact I respect your ingenuity, but I can hardly admire it.
It must be because you don't understand the sanctity of Shabbat, and the mindset of seperating yourself from the physical world. Shabbat is a taste of the world to come, and we are not to do any creative labor on this day. And on Shabbat we are to pursue spiritual aims, like davening and Torah reading, and enjoying the meals in a festive mood. Electricity, cars, phones, and other gadgets detract from the spirit of Shabbat... I hope that someday you can enjoy the beauty of the gift which Hashem gave to the Jewish people. It is more than restriction, it is freedom from this physical world...
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To a secular Jew like me, the fact that you use a clock, a contraption or a person (Shabbat Goy) to perform the same task as I, seems superfluous, at best. I can use an ignition key to do the same - after all, I don't burn anything, it is the ignition key that instructed the alternator to start the engine. I can hardly see how this makes you more spiritual. I don't want to pass a judgment, in fact I respect your ingenuity, but I can hardly admire it.
It must be because you don't understand the sanctity of Shabbat, and the mindset of seperating yourself from the physical world. Shabbat is a taste of the world to come, and we are not to do any creative labor on this day. And on Shabbat we are to pursue spiritual aims, like davening and Torah reading, and enjoying the meals in a festive mood. Electricity, cars, phones, and other gadgets detract from the spirit of Shabbat... I hope that someday you can enjoy the beauty of the gift which Hashem gave to the Jewish people. It is more than restriction, it is freedom from this physical world...
Ok, I agree with you - no point of arguing that, your interpretation is valid. My point - let me do what I please, because this just doesn't work for me. Let me park my car on Shabbat. Let me go to the gym. Let me take my kids to the zoo. My private affairs are really none of anyone's business.
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To a secular Jew like me, the fact that you use a clock, a contraption or a person (Shabbat Goy) to perform the same task as I, seems superfluous, at best. I can use an ignition key to do the same - after all, I don't burn anything, it is the ignition key that instructed the alternator to start the engine. I can hardly see how this makes you more spiritual. I don't want to pass a judgment, in fact I respect your ingenuity, but I can hardly admire it.
It must be because you don't understand the sanctity of Shabbat, and the mindset of seperating yourself from the physical world. Shabbat is a taste of the world to come, and we are not to do any creative labor on this day. And on Shabbat we are to pursue spiritual aims, like davening and Torah reading, and enjoying the meals in a festive mood. Electricity, cars, phones, and other gadgets detract from the spirit of Shabbat... I hope that someday you can enjoy the beauty of the gift which Hashem gave to the Jewish people. It is more than restriction, it is freedom from this physical world...
Ok, I agree with you - no point of arguing that, your interpretation is valid. My point - let me do what I please, because this just doesn't work for me. Let me park my car on Shabbat. Let me go to the gym. Let me take my kids to the zoo. My private affairs are really none of anyone's business.
Nobody can force you to observe Shabbat or other mitzvot. You have the freedom of choice given to you by the Creator and nobody has the right to limit it while your actions do not cause harm to the others. Therefore nobody can knock at your door, come in and check if you eat kosher food or observe Shabbat. It is indeed your private affair.
But driving a car on Shabbat through the center of the Holy City, crowded by observant Jews, and parking it in front of the ruins of G-d's Temple is not a private affair. This action insults the feelings of the observant Jews and destroys the unique Jerusalem Shabbat atmosphere.
It is noteworthy that the politicians who support the idea to open THAT parking are far-left traitors. It is clear why namely THEY support it. No, they don't give a damn about the comfort of ordinary secular Jews. They FEAR and HATE Jerusalem and its unique spirituality, and want to undermine it by any means. That's the same people are lobbying gay parades in the Holy City.