JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: galileerat on July 22, 2009, 05:59:27 AM
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The Haredi world is getting ready to bust out!
There is now such a burgeoning population of young Haredim, that something is gonna have to give soon.
They are all so overfed with high-sugar full of artificial additives inferior Kosher foods and drinks, so aware of Torah, so stressed out by over-crowding and sexual tensions, so aware of local Haredi scandals and internal sect intrigues, declining and uninspired weak leadership from their Rebbes and Ravs, so unemployed, underutilised and with their potential untapped, that if a Moshiach-type leader doesn't appear soon, there could be a some kind of a major schism soon in Orthodox Haredi Jewry.
Don't forget that the first Hellenisers, Saduceees, Christians, Shabtai Zviniks, Frankists, Maskilim, Reformers, Yiddishists, Bundists, Atheist Nationalists, Communists, Yevsektzia etc etc were all initially "Haredi" Jews!
What the Haredim are looking for at the moment is for some fatal "korbonos" at the hands of "the Zionist Nazi police" in the current rioting, so that they can all ascend to Har Hazeism and have an act of mass unity in a mass emotional catharsis with mass hespeidim for the fallen "kedoshim".
(http://i31.tinypic.com/140jlux.jpg)
What's needed is a leader and rabble rouser who can utilise their vast numbers and energy to do something big and force the Geulah and march on the Knesset or storm the Har Habayis - somebody like Rav Kahane or Chayim - but wearing peyos and a shtreimel!
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Undoubtably, Meir Kahane had a point of worrying about the Arabs in the future since they were multiplying faster than Jews. Oddly enough, the Haredim are multiplying so much and so quickly compared to the secular Jews in Israel (many of whom are actually leaving the country) that it will be 5-15 years before Israel does become a Torah state...And from a Torah state, can a Kahanist rouse to citizens to show their pride and take back lands and be strong...This is my prediction.
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Unfortunately, unless somehow the hashkofos of the Haredim, most of whom are as far from Kahanism as a Meretznik, are quickly revised, Israel will become a Torah-observant anti-Torah state, with the Haredi groups warring endlessly between eachother!
Which is why Hashem sends a Hitler and an Ahmadinejad: to preserve some semblance of Jewish unity in the face of the gas chamber or the atomic explosion! Amolek does not distinguish between Haredi Jews or Chilloni Jews, between left wing or right wing Jews, between Satmar or Vishnitz, between Kahanists or Shalom Akshavniks......!
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Don't forget that the first Hellenisers, Saduceees, Christians, Shabtai Zviniks, Frankists, Maskilim, Reformers, Yiddishists, Bundists, Atheist Nationalists, Communists, Yevsektzia etc etc were all initially "Haredi" Jews!
This range includes all main kinds of Jews throughout the history. According to this logic, Religious Nationalists and Kahanists were also initially Haredi Jews. :)
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Which is why Hashem sends a Hitler and an Ahmadinejad: to preserve some semblance of Jewish unity in the face of the gas chamber or the atomic explosion! Amolek does not distinguish between Haredi Jews or Chilloni Jews, between left wing or right wing Jews, between Satmar or Vishnitz, between Kahanists or Shalom Akshavniks......!
This is very true. That is why while staying confident that our position is the right one, we should always remember that all the Jews are brothers and try to avoid bashing other Jews without serious reason.
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Which is why Hashem sends a Hitler and an Ahmadinejad: to preserve some semblance of Jewish unity in the face of the gas chamber or the atomic explosion! Amolek does not distinguish between Haredi Jews or Chilloni Jews, between left wing or right wing Jews, between Satmar or Vishnitz, between Kahanists or Shalom Akshavniks......!
This is very true. That is why while staying confident that our position is the right one, we should always remember that all the Jews are brothers and try to avoid bashing other Jews without serious reason.
I agree 100%... I have noticed that gallileerat has taken exceptional measures to bash one kind of Jew or another... I find that middot to be very, very dangerous. The Jewish people need to be unified, not seperated or divided.
I have just read that there has been an increase in employment of Haredi in Israel... I cannot locate the article on A7 at this time but it was on the front page two days ago...
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I agree 100%... I have noticed that gallileerat has taken exceptional measures to bash one kind of Jew or another... I find that middot to be very, very dangerous. The Jewish people need to be unified, not seperated or divided.
Galileerat is the banned troll Mitflezet. Why he/she/it has not been rebanned is not something I can answer.
Hint hint, Lisa.
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somebody like Rav Kahane or Chayim - but wearing peyos and a shtreimel!
By definition, the type of Jew to take a real leadership stand and fight for the Jewish people like Chaim or Rav Kahane, this type of Jew does not wear a streimel. As much as you may not like it, that is a fact.
And anyway, all the societal issues you are describing are equally a problem for the Litvak haredim, and I believe they have greater numbers than the edah haredit/chassidim. Granted, you are blowing their self-conscious recognition of societal difficulties and level of despair way out of proportion, but there is a degree of truth in each of those problems festering in the society. In truth I think most of those problems will work themselves out by necessity, including emergence of some fresh leadership, as hard as that might be to imagine there.... I think it is inevitable.
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Don't forget that the first Hellenisers, Saduceees, Christians, Shabtai Zviniks, Frankists, Maskilim, Reformers, Yiddishists, Bundists, Atheist Nationalists, Communists, Yevsektzia etc etc were all initially "Haredi" Jews!
This range includes all main kinds of Jews throughout the history. According to this logic, Religious Nationalists and Kahanists were also initially Haredi Jews. :)
That's because his statement was not accurate.
Haredi Jewry wants to present itself as the only legitimate continuation of what was once the Torah-observant masses of the Jewish people. But this is not so. When the modern day splinter groups arrived onto the scene, reform and conservative the main ones, prior to that, there was simply Jewish people who were mostly traditional, and mostly observant, with variations on personal levels to be sure, loyal to the rabbis, to chazal, and Talmud. But after reform and C were invented (along with "bundists," "yiddishists," and many other 'isms'), "orthodox" came to be the term referring to this 'old guard' of Jews who came from the tradition and stayed with it. Haredi Judaism is a new, modern phenomenon, and it is only one type of Jew that is an authentic continuation of the old guard of loyal observant, traditional Jewry. Religious nationalists, modern orthodox, hardali etc are all variant expressions of a continuation of that old group - Jews, not perfect, but largely loyal to the Torah and keeping the mitzvot, loyal to the rabbis, to chazal, and to Talmud.
It is an anachronism to claim that Torah observant Jews of the past were "haredi." Haredi describes a specific modern day overarching hashkafic point of view of one stream within "Orthodoxy" - one stream of the continuation of the old Jewish tradition.
In any event such terms are labels which always generalize and discount the individual variations of people who fit under the general branch of the label, and it is not good to label or make distinctions between good Jews, but the fact is that these terms do have a certain definition and general parameters that define political allegiances and hashkafot in a general sense.
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No! It includes all the main kinds of bad Jews throught history!
כל היהודים הטובים אתי
- "All the good Jews are with me!" (R.Kahane 1986)
This range includes all main kinds of Jews throughout the history. According to this logic, Religious Nationalists and Kahanists were also initially Haredi Jews. :)
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I agree 100%... I have noticed that gallileerat has taken exceptional measures to bash one kind of Jew or another... I find that middot to be very, very dangerous. The Jewish people need to be unified, not seperated or divided.
Galileerat is the banned troll Mitflezet. Why he/she/it has not been rebanned is not something I can answer.
My guess is he will come back here on an alternate platform anyway. So probably no point to ban him. Anyway, at least under this screenname, I haven't seen him do anything that is against the rules here. He has typed some silly stuff about geocentrism, but in my opinion you can't ban a person for scientific ignorance. Just my two cents.
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Galileerat is the banned troll Mitflezet. Why he/she/it has not been rebanned is not something I can answer.
Not happening! He's been given another chance to participate on this forum.
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Haredi Jewry wants to present itself as the only legitimate continuation of what was once the Torah-observant masses of the Jewish people. But this is not so...
Haredi Judaism is a new, modern phenomenon, and it is only one type of Jew that is an authentic continuation of the old guard of loyal observant, traditional Jewry. Religious nationalists, modern orthodox, hardali etc are all variant expressions of a continuation of that old group - Jews, not perfect, but largely loyal to the Torah and keeping the mitzvot, loyal to the rabbis, to chazal, and to Talmud.
I agree with this. It is true that sometimes Haredim imply that since they study Torah many hours a day and very strictly follow some important halachic rules (modesty for instance), they are "holier" than the other Orthodox groups.
First of all, not all Haredim say so. The one who is truly righteous will not search reasons to feel better than the others. He will quietly study Torah, pray and observe the laws, and be happy in his service to the Creator. Believe me, there are many such Haredim. On the other hand, I noticed that those Haredi people who say they are better are usually not 100% perfect themselves.
Secondly, there are other very important commadments that the Haredim of course perform, but those who excel in them are namely other Orthodox groups. Yishuv Haaretz (settlement of the Land of Israel) is promoted by the Religious Nationalists. The Modern Orthodox often run successful businesses and give much money for tzedakah (charity). Both yishuv haaretz and tzedakah are cornerstones of Judaism. Moreover, if yishuv haaretz (which includes defense from the enemies) were not promoted, present-day thriving Haredi community in Israel would have been impossible. Also, many Haredim in Israel rely to charity given by many Modern Orthodox from the US and Canada.
One of the lessons of the Second Lebanon war was that Air Force, even as perfect and excellent as the Israeli one, cannot win the war alone. In the same way Torah study, being so holy and noble, cannot fulfill the Jewish mission alone.
Let alone the situation when air force stuff looks at the others as inferiors. To reach the goal we need the perfect interaction of all the units, which must start from mutual respect.
Only when all Orthodox groups will recognize the common goal, appreciate the advantages of each other, and function as cooperating parts of the greater whole, the Geulah (salvation) will be closer.
But if they quarrel with each other, this may lead to sinat hinam (unconditional hatred), G-d forbid. Don't forget that the Second Temple, which destruction we are about to mourn, was destroyed due to sinat hinam.
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The many complaint Hashem has against the Haredim is that not a peep was heard from them during the Gaza Deportation of 10,000 fellow Orthodox Jews.
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The many complaint Hashem has against the Haredim is that not a peep was heard from them during the Gaza Deportation of 10,000 fellow Orthodox Jews.
Are you sure you know the opinion of Hashem? When did you have the last prophecy? :P
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..not a peep was heard from them during the Gaza Deportation of 10,000 fellow Orthodox Jews.
I agree, they didn't protest as they should have.
In 50-ies and 60-ies when the hundreds of thousands young Sepharadi Jews were forcefully secularized by the lestist ruling class, nobody protested - neither Haredim nor Religious Nationalists and other orthodox groups. And it is a terrible fact. So according to your logic, we must now despise all Ashkenazi Orthodox Jews?
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Saduceees were never Haredi/Hassidic, in fact they were the 180 opposite of Haredism. In fact, modern Caraites Jews are philosophical descendants of Ssaduccess. Why would you say that communist Jews were Haredi when they were not? You are making too many broad strokes. I think that most of haredi/hassidic Jews are doing a great disservice to Israel and to Judaism. The sooner they'll leave their cults, the better.
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..not a peep was heard from them during the Gaza Deportation of 10,000 fellow Orthodox Jews.
I agree, they didn't protest as they should have.
In 50-ies and 60-ies when the hundreds of thousands young Sepharadi Jews were forcefully secularized by the lestist ruling class, nobody protested - neither Haredim nor Religious Nationalists and other orthodox groups. And it is a terrible fact. So according to your logic, we must now despise all Ashkenazi Orthodox Jews?
First off, I don't want you to think I agree with Galilrat, who seems to have a vendetta against the Haredim. But let me say as a Religious Ashkenazi Jew, and I believe that many Kahanists agree with me, is that the Ashkenazi Religious Jews in EY have overall done many many bad things in regards to Sepharadim. Of course they should not be hated, but they must be held responsible for how they treated the Sephards.
Then again, if the Religious Ashkenaz are to be held responsible, then the true culprits must be held even more responsible, which is the secular Ashkenazi Jews, whose destruction of Sephardi Judaism is partially responsible for the situation Medinat Israel finds itself in today.
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somebody like Rav Kahane or Chayim - but wearing peyos and a shtreimel!
By definition, the type of Jew to take a real leadership stand and fight for the Jewish people like Chaim or Rav Kahane, this type of Jew does not wear a streimel. As much as you may not like it, that is a fact.
And anyway, all the societal issues you are describing are equally a problem for the Litvak haredim, and I believe they have greater numbers than the edah haredit/chassidim. Granted, you are blowing their self-conscious recognition of societal difficulties and level of despair way out of proportion, but there is a degree of truth in each of those problems festering in the society. In truth I think most of those problems will work themselves out by necessity, including emergence of some fresh leadership, as hard as that might be to imagine there.... I think it is inevitable.
You are 100% right that this is highly unlikely. But think about how revbolutionary it would be, and how beneficial it would be to Am Yisrael, if the Shtreimel-wearing Chossids woke up.
AS for EY, the societal problems have hit the Chossids way more than the Litvaks, who do not shun modernity to the same extent as Chossids.
In EY now, you see the tensions that are rising, as many Haredim are becoming influenced by Religious Zionsim, much to the shock and fear of their parents. This could lead to the bursting of a bubble in Haredi society, and a more united religious front in EY.
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I have a lot of issues with the Haredim (primarily, their obsession with one or two issues to the exclusion of everything else), but these posts are just absurd. Mitflezet clearly hates religious Jews, period.
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..not a peep was heard from them during the Gaza Deportation of 10,000 fellow Orthodox Jews.
I agree, they didn't protest as they should have.
In 50-ies and 60-ies when the hundreds of thousands young Sepharadi Jews were forcefully secularized by the lestist ruling class, nobody protested - neither Haredim nor Religious Nationalists and other orthodox groups. And it is a terrible fact. So according to your logic, we must now despise all Ashkenazi Orthodox Jews?
First off, I don't want you to think I agree with Galilrat, who seems to have a vendetta against the Haredim. But let me say as a Religious Ashkenazi Jew, and I believe that many Kahanists agree with me, is that the Ashkenazi Religious Jews in EY have overall done many many bad things in regards to Sepharadim. Of course they should not be hated, but they must be held responsible for how they treated the Sephards.
Then again, if the Religious Ashkenaz are to be held responsible, then the true culprits must be held even more responsible, which is the secular Ashkenazi Jews, whose destruction of Sefaradi Judaism is partially responsible for the situation Medinat Israel finds itself in today.
This is right. I'm not going to whitewash the bad things that were done. All injustice should be recognized and condemned.
The question is where ends condemnation of the injustice and starts the blatant bashing of some group of Jews, be it Haredim or Ashkenazi Jewry as a whole.
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Ok, perhaps I'm missing on giving a point on this issue.
In Israel you have the religious and the secular. Very few types of Israelis who are somewhere in the middle.
Whether they are the hardcore non Zionist types or Zionist types of religious Israelis, they are the group who are having tons of children while the secular Israelis are hardly having any children...and even emigrating to other countries for a "better life"
What will happen over time is that the religious Jews will become the majority and essentially take over the government...in turn, Israel will become basically a true Torah state.
As a True Torah state, ideals will fly that are Kahanist and non Kahanist...but it will be the Kahanist Zionist groups that will win because they will be the only group that will ensure protection of all Israelis.
What I'm trying to say is that the Haredi are multiplying and growing strong...zionist or non zionist and that this is basically a good thing for the state of Israel.
I, myself, am not Haredi, but more of an "in between" Jew...
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Saduceees were never Haredi/Hassidic, in fact they were the 180 opposite of Haredism. In fact, modern Caraites Jews are philosophical descendants of Ssaduccess. Why would you say that communist Jews were Haredi when they were not? You are making too many broad strokes. I think that most of haredi/hassidic Jews are doing a great disservice to Israel and to Judaism. The sooner they'll leave their cults, the better.
I really don't appreciate your denigrating Chassidic Judaism... This is my lineage and there are many great Torah giants who were Chassids. I can name so many Gedolim from the Chassidic camp including the Bal Shem Tov, Rabbi Nachman, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe... You cannot condemn all of Chassidus like this!
I am ashamed to have read this here... And during the beginning of the nine days...
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The many complaint Hashem has against the Haredim is that not a peep was heard from them during the Gaza Deportation of 10,000 fellow Orthodox Jews.
Good point! I think of Haredi/Hassidic Jews as sanctimonious anachronism. The only exception I make is for Lubavitch Hassids - I respect them but I am not overly impressed with the ones in North America either. There is great number of Jews in Israel and USA who left Judaism and who are mocking Judaism because of these Hassidic Jews.
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Saduceees were never Haredi/Hassidic, in fact they were the 180 opposite of Haredism. In fact, modern Caraites Jews are philosophical descendants of Ssaduccess. Why would you say that communist Jews were Haredi when they were not? You are making too many broad strokes. I think that most of haredi/hassidic Jews are doing a great disservice to Israel and to Judaism. The sooner they'll leave their cults, the better.
I really don't appreciate your denigrating Chassidic Judaism... This is my lineage and there are many great Torah giants who were Chassids. I can name so many Gedolim from the Chassidic camp including the Bal Shem Tov, Rabbi Nachman, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe... You cannot condemn all of Chassidus like this!
I am ashamed to have read this here... And during the beginning of the nine days..
I am sorry that you are offended. The Chassidic Judaism was an important part of Jewish self-preservation while we were in Galut. I think it is an unfortunate anachronism now and is a perversion of Judaism as I see it.
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Saduceees were never Haredi/Hassidic, in fact they were the 180 opposite of Haredism. In fact, modern Caraites Jews are philosophical descendants of Ssaduccess. Why would you say that communist Jews were Haredi when they were not? You are making too many broad strokes. I think that most of haredi/hassidic Jews are doing a great disservice to Israel and to Judaism. The sooner they'll leave their cults, the better.
I really don't appreciate your denigrating Chassidic Judaism... This is my lineage and there are many great Torah giants who were Chassids. I can name so many Gedolim from the Chassidic camp including the Bal Shem Tov, Rabbi Nachman, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe... You cannot condemn all of Chassidus like this!
I am ashamed to have read this here... And during the beginning of the nine days..
I am sorry that you are offended. The Chassidic Judaism was an important part of Jewish self-preservation while we were in Galut. I think it is an unfortunate anachronism now and is a perversion of Judaism as I see it.
It is unfair because Many Breslovers are now in EY and studying Torah and teaching... Also the Lubavitchers, despite maintaining a strong presence in the exile, always have supported aliyah to Israel. I don't know what you mean a 'perversion' of Judaism? What is perverted about Chassidus? Have you studied Mesilat Yesharim and learned what it means to be a Chassid? I think it is perverse to level such an accusation at all of Chassidic judaism. I do not attack other forms of Jewish belief because we are taught that all forms of Jewish belief, including Ashkenazim, Sefaradim, and all other forms, are just as Jewish as my beliefs. We each have our own minhagim {customs} but they are all from Hashem...
http://www.breslev.co.il/default.aspx?language=english
http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/rabbis/breslov.htm
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I think Manch understands the word "Chassid" as a physically weak, coward person who is weirdly dressed and full of superstitions.
At least some writers portrayed "Chassids" as such.
Actually, there were really some such people in galut in Jewish shtetles. Some of them were wearing traditional Chassidic clothes, hence the wrong association.
In fact, Chassid is the type of Orthodox Jew whose service to G-d is mainly expressed through emotions, as opposed to so-called "Litvaks" ("Lithuanians") whose main "weapon" is logical analysis used in Talmud study. Both ways are valid and kosher and it's up to a person to decide which one is more appropriate to him.
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Saduceees were never Haredi/Hassidic, in fact they were the 180 opposite of Haredism. In fact, modern Caraites Jews are philosophical descendants of Ssaduccess. Why would you say that communist Jews were Haredi when they were not? You are making too many broad strokes. I think that most of haredi/hassidic Jews are doing a great disservice to Israel and to Judaism. The sooner they'll leave their cults, the better.
I really don't appreciate your denigrating Chassidic Judaism... This is my lineage and there are many great Torah giants who were Chassids. I can name so many Gedolim from the Chassidic camp including the Bal Shem Tov, Rabbi Nachman, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe... You cannot condemn all of Chassidus like this!
I am ashamed to have read this here... And during the beginning of the nine days..
I am sorry that you are offended. The Chassidic Judaism was an important part of Jewish self-preservation while we were in Galut. I think it is an unfortunate anachronism now and is a perversion of Judaism as I see it.
It is unfair because Many Breslovers are now in EY and studying Torah and teaching... Also the Lubavitchers, despite maintaining a strong presence in the exile, always have supported aliyah to Israel. I don't know what you mean a 'perversion' of Judaism? What is perverted about Chassidus? Have you studied Mesilat Yesharim and learned what it means to be a Chassid? I think it is perverse to level such an accusation at all of Chassidic judaism. I do not attack other forms of Jewish belief because we are taught that all forms of Jewish belief, including Ashkenazim, Sefaradim, and all other forms, are just as Jewish as my beliefs. We each have our own minhagim {customs} but they are all from Hashem...
Like I said Muman, I respect Lubavitches, my rebbe is Lubavitch, but I am not overly impressed with them. I don't know much about Breslovs, but I think they are both nice people, again, these two sects I respect and love. But I absolutely detest Satmars and other anti-Zionist sickos. I've read Tanya and didn't appreciate it, perhaps for the lack of knowledge on my part. I think that Chassidism is an unfortunate occurrence in Jewish people that has nothing to do with Judaism of HaRav Kahane, King David, King Solomon, King Ahab, King Hezzekiah, etc. What do you think or what did Rebbe think of Caraite Judaism? Do you consider Caraites a part of Jewish people? BTW, I don't mean the tartars of Crymea, but true Caraites.
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Saduceees were never Haredi/Hassidic, in fact they were the 180 opposite of Haredism. In fact, modern Caraites Jews are philosophical descendants of Ssaduccess. Why would you say that communist Jews were Haredi when they were not? You are making too many broad strokes. I think that most of haredi/hassidic Jews are doing a great disservice to Israel and to Judaism. The sooner they'll leave their cults, the better.
I really don't appreciate your denigrating Chassidic Judaism... This is my lineage and there are many great Torah giants who were Chassids. I can name so many Gedolim from the Chassidic camp including the Bal Shem Tov, Rabbi Nachman, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe... You cannot condemn all of Chassidus like this!
I am ashamed to have read this here... And during the beginning of the nine days..
I am sorry that you are offended. The Chassidic Judaism was an important part of Jewish self-preservation while we were in Galut. I think it is an unfortunate anachronism now and is a perversion of Judaism as I see it.
It is unfair because Many Breslovers are now in EY and studying Torah and teaching... Also the Lubavitchers, despite maintaining a strong presence in the exile, always have supported aliyah to Israel. I don't know what you mean a 'perversion' of Judaism? What is perverted about Chassidus? Have you studied Mesilat Yesharim and learned what it means to be a Chassid? I think it is perverse to level such an accusation at all of Chassidic judaism. I do not attack other forms of Jewish belief because we are taught that all forms of Jewish belief, including Ashkenazim, Sefaradim, and all other forms, are just as Jewish as my beliefs. We each have our own minhagim {customs} but they are all from Hashem...
Like I said Muman, I respect Lubavitches, my rebbe is Lubavitch, but I am not overly impressed with them. I don't know much about Breslovs, but I think they are both nice people, again, these two sects I respect and love. But I absolutely detest Satmars and other anti-Zionist sickos. I've read Tanya and didn't appreciate it, perhaps for the lack of knowledge on my part. I think that Chassidism is an unfortunate occurrence in Jewish people that has nothing to do with Judaism of HaRav Kahane, King David, King Solomon, King Ahab, King Hezzekiah, etc. What do you think or what did Rebbe think of Caraite Judaism? Do you consider Caraites a part of Jewish people? BTW, I don't mean the tartars of Crymea, but true Caraites.
Not to really get into this discussion but....
What do you think or what did Rebbe think of Caraite Judaism? Do you consider Caraites a part of Jewish people?
Rabbi Kahane didn't. (Or if he did I'd be completely shocked). But it is clear that Rabbi Kahane was a rabbinical Orthodox Jew.
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The only person who should criticize a Chossid is one who performs mitzvas as fervently as they do.
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The only person who should criticize a Chossid is one who performs mitzvas as fervently as they do.
I understand what you are saying but I think they were referring to the term Chassidic, from the Chassidic sects of Judaism. To me, the term Chossid is more generic and does mean any Jew who goes beyond the letter of the law. This was the origin of calling Chassidic Judaism this name.
http://www.chassidus.net/
Chassidism: (a) The movement within Judaism founded by Rabbi Israel Baal Shem Tov (1698-1760), stressing service of G-d through the mystical in addition to the legalistic dimension of Judaism, the power of joy, love of G-d and one's fellow, emotional involvement in prayer, finding G-dliness in every aspect of one's existence, and the elevation of the material universe; (b) the teachings and philosophy of this movement; see also Chabad
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Zahal has found that the Nahal Haredi soldiers are so much more motivated and disciplined than even the knitted-kippa Hesder ones, let alone the average demotivated, semi-zombified Israeli soldier, that they are forming a second Nahal Haredi batallion.
Haredim are found to be very good at computers.
The Haredim of Zaka are much better and more conscientious medical orderlies and ambulance crews than your average Arab Christian Magen David Adom ones.
Indeed given the burgeoning Haredi numbers, the chilloni and knitted- kippot Jews will be nearly extinct by 2025, thus forcing the Israeli educational institutions and universities to cater for and to raise a new generation of Haredi doctors, dentists, lawyers, surgeons, opticians etc.
What is needed is a Lubavitcher rebbe/Samson Raphael Hirsch/R.Kahane/Moshiach type "Torah im Derech Eretz" figure to lead and galvanize all that Haredi potential.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_d4zmqSfE-J8/SWuTRVJvdPI/AAAAAAAACSI/38znx281adU/s400/Nahal+Haredi1.jpg)
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Nahal Haredi soldiers are indeed highly motivated but why do you say they are "so much more motivated and disiciplined than the knitted-kippa Hesder ones"? Both of them are very good soldiers and patriots of the Land of Israel, I don't think it's proper to argue who is better.
There are also many good secular soldiers who are not any worse than Haredi and Dati Leumi (knitted kipas).
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Nahal Haredi soldiers are indeed highly motivated but why do you say they are "so much more motivated and disiciplined than the knitted-kippa Hesder ones"? Both of them are very good soldiers and patriots of the Land of Israel, I don't think it's proper to argue who is better.
There are also many good secular soldiers who are not any worse than Haredi and Dati Leumi (knitted kipas).
Yes I have to agree with you. Galilee likes to speak in sweeping terms (albeit anecdotally), but I find his pro-haredi love-fest somewhat nauseating. Yeah many haredim are good people, but there are plenty of good people who aren't haredi too. Get off the high horse.
"the chilloni and knitted- kippot Jews will be nearly extinct by 2025, thus forcing the Israeli educational institutions and universities to cater for and to raise a new generation of Haredi doctors, dentists, lawyers, surgeons, opticians etc.
This is an absolute joke. You don't honestly believe this do you galilee? If you do, I must inform you that it is completely false. Knitted-kipot Jews will be nearly extinct ? Are you kidding me? When you speak about demographics you really should try to take into account..... demographics.
The "knitted-kippot" are a rising sector that have come to fill many institutions as professionals - lawyers, doctors, dentists, in the army ranks, etc in great numbers like never before. What, they're going to disappear after someone waves a magic wand? LOL.
And no one will have to cater to anything until the haredi so-called 'leaders' decide that haredim should work like normal people in society. Until that comes from the leadership, the vast majority will continue to hang on in squalor by "just learning" (so-called bitachon). And as the financial pressures mount (because indeed they are rising, due to the demographics economic decline and other factors) on these young haredi couples/families who will feel forced to not work because a. the leadership says it's "second-class" to do so and their community looks at them as second class for doing so and b. they haven't been properly educated in order to do so, they will resort to desperate measures to make ends meet unfortunately. And thus deal, NJ fiascos in the making ....
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I meant this breed of "knitted-kippa" becoming extinct!
(http://www.knesset.gov.il/mk/images/members/burg_avraham.jpg)
Not this breed!
(http://muslimmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/jewish-settler-kids-guns.jpg)
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Shalom KWRBT & Gallileerat,
I ask you only one thing... Please do not continue the Sinat Chinam which I feel has been demonstrated here. What is the purpose to speak Lashon Hara against either Haredim or National Religious? Does it help us when we sow conflict between Chabad and Mizrachi? I do not think that it is good for the nation of Israel to continue such machlokes.
I love haredim, and I love Chabad, and I love Litvish, and I love Sephardim. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I think that we can achieve more together than we can when we continue to spread the Sinat Chinam.
Don't we yearn for the Third Temple? Don't we learn that every generation in which the Temple is not rebuilt is guilty of the same sin that it was destroyed for?
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Shalom KWRBT & Gallileerat,
I ask you only one thing... Please do not continue the Sinat Chinam which I feel has been demonstrated here. What is the purpose to speak Lashon Hara against either Haredim or National Religious? Does it help us when we sow conflict between Chabad and Mizrachi? I do not think that it is good for the nation of Israel to continue such machlokes.
I love haredim, and I love Chabad, and I love Litvish, and I love Sefaradim. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I think that we can achieve more together than we can when we continue to spread the Sinat Chinam.
Don't we yearn for the Third Temple? Don't we learn that every generation in which the Temple is not rebuilt is guilty of the same sin that it was destroyed for?
I don't believe I have spoken lashon hara. I sympathize with haredi families who are forced into scenarios of overwhelming (sometimes insurmountable, where they are forced to live off of hand-outs or dependent on others) financial pressure. It is a faulty system that puts them in such a precarious situation. And a system against the principles of the Torah which encourages Jews to work in the other 6 days a week. Is it lashon hara to criticize homosexuality which goes against the Torah? No. And it is also not lashon hara to criticize a disfunctional system that makes haredim suffer.
Look at "haredi" Jews in America. Those who identify as haredi and don't consider themselves as "modern" or "MO." They work. They get enough education so that they can keep at least half decent jobs and provide for their families. Many of them have great jobs and do exceptionally well in their education. The adult full-time learning is much rarer, except in breakoff sect communities like the Satmar. This is not the case in Israel, and it's a system imposed from the top down. I of course have nothing against haredim, I love them in fact. But what is done to their society is an injustice if you ask me.
And about America we can see that how these breakoff sect communities provide for entire populations only learning is not sustainable ethically. Without elaborating further, you hopefully catch my drift. And we see also that the 'full time learning' and 'kollel craze' is catching on in America only because it is so widespread in Israel. Look at the older generation of frum Jews. They work/ worked.
The cost of yeshiva education for children in the US is immense. They really have no choice but to work. And that is normal.
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Keep putting the truth and knowledge out there, we don't know how many souls are actually waking up!