JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on August 18, 2009, 03:00:33 AM
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America is not a Christian nation. We are, it is true, a nation founded by Christians, and according to a 2008 survey, 76 percent of us continue to identify as Christian (still, that's the lowest percentage in American history). Of course, we are not a Hindu—or Muslim, or Jewish, or Wiccan—nation, either. A million-plus Hindus live in the United States, a fraction of the billion who live on Earth. But recent poll data show that conceptually, at least, we are slowly becoming more like Hindus and less like traditional Christians in the ways we think about God, our selves, each other, and eternity.
The Rig Veda, the most ancient Hindu scripture, says this: "Truth is One, but the sages speak of it by many names." A Hindu believes there are many paths to God. Jesus is one way, the Qur'an is another, yoga practice is a third. None is better than any other; all are equal. The most traditional, conservative Christians have not been taught to think like this. They learn in Sunday school that their religion is true, and others are false. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me."
Americans are no longer buying it. According to a 2008 Pew Forum survey, 65 percent of us believe that "many religions can lead to eternal life"—including 37 percent of white evangelicals, the group most likely to believe that salvation is theirs alone. Also, the number of people who seek spiritual truth outside church is growing. Thirty percent of Americans call themselves "spiritual, not religious," according to a 2009 NEWSWEEK Poll, up from 24 percent in 2005. Stephen Prothero, religion professor at Boston University, has long framed the American propensity for "the divine-deli-cafeteria religion" as "very much in the spirit of Hinduism. You're not picking and choosing from different religions, because they're all the same," he says. "It isn't about orthodoxy. It's about whatever works. If going to yoga works, great—and if going to Catholic mass works, great. And if going to Catholic mass plus the yoga plus the Buddhist retreat works, that's great, too."
Then there's the question of what happens when you die. Christians traditionally believe that bodies and souls are sacred, that together they comprise the "self," and that at the end of time they will be reunited in the Resurrection. You need both, in other words, and you need them forever. Hindus believe no such thing. At death, the body burns on a pyre, while the spirit—where identity resides—escapes. In reincarnation, central to Hinduism, selves come back to earth again and again in different bodies. So here is another way in which Americans are becoming more Hindu: 24 percent of Americans say they believe in reincarnation, according to a 2008 Harris poll. So agnostic are we about the ultimate fates of our bodies that we're burning them—like Hindus—after death. More than a third of Americans now choose cremation, according to the Cremation Association of North America, up from 6 percent in 1975. "I do think the more spiritual role of religion tends to deemphasize some of the more starkly literal interpretations of the Resurrection," agrees Diana Eck, professor of comparative religion at Harvard. So let us all say "om."
http://www.newsweek.com/id/212155?GT1=43002_
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Let me make it clear the intention of me posting this article. I dont want to suggest that Americans are becoming Hindus and that i'm any proud.
America should preserve its American heritage and tradition, it is because of the loosers missionaries and ministers who are coming in Israel and India to convert non-Christians in non-Chrisitian countries are the root of all problem. If these people had concentrated their energies on saving AMerica and UK, this article wouldnt have come up!
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I sincerely hope America finds its "Christen" base and culture again. This progression towards embracing all "enlightened" ideologies has contributed greatly to drive America down the toilet. G-d I wish "When in Rome" thought would be embraced again.
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I really find it problematic if Hindus really consider the Koran a legitimate "path to G-d".
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Reincarnation is not a solely hindu idea... Judaism has had the concept of reincarnation, called Gilgul, since the beginning of Jewish thought.
There will never cease to be a remnant of Israel which the whole world will embrace when Moshiach comes. I heard last night a Rabbi explain the eternal nature of the Jewish nation and the blessings we will bring to the world in the future.
It doesn't really matter to the Jewish narrative what the nations of the world think or do. When the time of Moshiach comes they will put down their idols and acknowledge the true G-d of Israel.
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I really find it problematic if Hindus really consider the Koran a legitimate "path to G-d".
The entire concept of Hinduism is perplexing. In my opinion, like Islam holding back the Middle Eastern peoples from progressing into the first world or the cultures of Black Africa keeping them in the stone age, Hinduism, Buddhism and these other Eastern Philosophies have kept these peoples back as well.
My apologies, if anyone is "offended" by if it weren't for the British, India today would be a backwater dirty place where tourists would roast marshmallows on the flames of the Sati offering...
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I really find it problematic if Hindus really consider the Koran a legitimate "path to G-d".
The entire concept of Hinduism is perplexing. In my opinion, like Islam holding back the Middle Eastern peoples from progressing into the first world or the cultures of Black Africa keeping them in the stone age, Hinduism, Buddhism and these other Eastern Philosophies have kept these peoples back as well.
My apologies, if anyone is "offended" by if it weren't for the British, India today would be a backwater dirty place where tourists would roast marshmallows on the flames of the Sati offering...
Before the British came, India was far from a backwater dirty place. Hindus have greatly contibuted to the canon of Western Knowledge, and have long been known to be a very smart group.
Sati was not very common, and was only done in certain regions, so to hold all Hindus accountable for that is like holding all all Jews accountable for the actions of Reform sickos.
I really hope you don't support British colonialism, as we saw what it did in Eretz Yisrael, and the Rav talked about how sickening these people were.
And you are correct that Hinduism is quite perplexing. That being said, don't you think that such a perplexing religion must be examined deeply to pass any serious judgment upon it?
I have heard your sentiments about Hindus repeated, only about Jews, and how their religion has "held them back". The real question is what you mean be "being held back", as this is a very secular idea. Secular JEws claim that religious Jews are "being held back" because they don't share the same values as them.
Lastly, perhaps the most important contribution of the Brits to India is the introduction of Western Liberalism, which to that point Hindus were completely unfamiliar with.
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Hinduism is a very interesting philosophy. That's all I really have to say. Any Hindu though that has any kind of "understanding" for Muzzies is a self-hater.
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Hinduism is a very interesting philosophy. That's all I really have to say. Any Hindu though that has any kind of "understanding" for Muzzies is a self-hater.
You are absolutely right about that one, but I think understanding is the wrong word. I think most people on this forum have a full understanding of Islam- that is, that it is a death cult. But I completely understand your sentiments.
But one has to make sure not to lump good Hindus in with these self-haters. This is as bad as those who would try to lump me in with Reform Jews.
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I think, like the Jew, the Hindu might well learn his/her own history especially concerning the Islamic conquest beginning during the period of the ascendancy of the Rajput Kingdoms in North India, from the 7th century onwards of which today's Gypsies stem. Further, the main substance of Muhammadan conquests from 11th to the 17th centuries under such notables warlords as Tamerlane would suggest the Hindu work as hard as possible to "transfer" the Muslim savages from all lands of the Hind.....including Pakistan ;-)
I know, I am an intolerant extremist. I think the pillars of Hindu Skulls piled high by our visiting Muhammadan friends is a very progressive aspect of Islam's peace and tolerant past....
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I really find it problematic if Hindus really consider the Koran a legitimate "path to G-d".
The entire concept of Hinduism is perplexing. In my opinion, like Islam holding back the Middle Eastern peoples from progressing into the first world or the cultures of Black Africa keeping them in the stone age, Hinduism, Buddhism and these other Eastern Philosophies have kept these peoples back as well.
My apologies, if anyone is "offended" by if it weren't for the British, India today would be a backwater dirty place where tourists would roast marshmallows on the flames of the Sati offering...
you dont have much idea about india's history. Many British historicans like Max Muller have stated many times that India had lot of materialistic wealth as well as spiritual. British came here to steal the wealth, and not to guide people. And of course if you feel the British who came to india were civilized westerners or righteous gentiles, then you are ignorant. Pls find where did prostitution, liquor, and opium came to India from.
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Personally I think Hindus are good people but I cannot accept anyone who believes and worships idols. This is 100% counter to the Jewish belief. Idols of wood, stone, and metal have no power. All power rests in the hands of the One, the Holy One, Creator of heaven and earth, and all that is in it.
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I really find it problematic if Hindus really consider the Koran a legitimate "path to G-d".
The entire concept of Hinduism is perplexing. In my opinion, like Islam holding back the Middle Eastern peoples from progressing into the first world or the cultures of Black Africa keeping them in the stone age, Hinduism, Buddhism and these other Eastern Philosophies have kept these peoples back as well.
My apologies, if anyone is "offended" by if it weren't for the British, India today would be a backwater dirty place where tourists would roast marshmallows on the flames of the Sati offering...
Before the British came, India was far from a backwater dirty place. Hindus have greatly contibuted to the canon of Western Knowledge, and have long been known to be a very smart group.
Sati was not very common, and was only done in certain regions, so to hold all Hindus accountable for that is like holding all all Jews accountable for the actions of Reform sickos.
I really hope you don't support British colonialism, as we saw what it did in Eretz Yisrael, and the Rav talked about how sickening these people were.
And you are correct that Hinduism is quite perplexing. That being said, don't you think that such a perplexing religion must be examined deeply to pass any serious judgment upon it?
I have heard your sentiments about Hindus repeated, only about Jews, and how their religion has "held them back". The real question is what you mean be "being held back", as this is a very secular idea. Secular JEws claim that religious Jews are "being held back" because they don't share the same values as them.
Lastly, perhaps the most important contribution of the Brits to India is the introduction of Western Liberalism, which to that point Hindus were completely unfamiliar with.
thank you for clarifying it to MarZutra :)
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Personally I think Hindus are good people but I cannot accept anyone who believes and worships idols. This is 100% counter to the Jewish belief and we are to smash idols.
not all Hindus pray to idols, and not all hindus consider idol as G-d. the true hindu sage/saint in hindu religion does not even require a temple to offer his/her service to G-d. Bakti i.e. Meditation and chanting of mantras are considered the highest service.
I do believe the messiah or avatar(as we call it) is going to come to defeat the unrigtheous.
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Personally I think Hindus are good people but I cannot accept anyone who believes and worships idols. This is 100% counter to the Jewish belief and we are to smash idols.
not all Hindus pray to idols, and not all hindus consider idol as G-d. the true hindu sage/saint is religion does not even require a temple to offer his/her service to G-d. Bakti i.e. Meditation and chanting of mantras are considered the highest service.
Does your religion believe that there is only one supreme being? Do you only worship to this Master of the Universe? My discussions with my hindu friends indicates it is not a simple question... There are gods which have various powers under the master G-d... These gods are idols...
Also could you answer what it is your G-d wants from you?
PS: I am not looking for argument... I also don't intend any offense... I have understanding, and get along with, people from all backgrounds...
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For the Jewish perspective one should read Parasha Eikev where this is written:
http://www.ravkooktorah.org/EKEV63.htm
Eikev: What Does God Want of You?
The Torah clearly expects us to feel both love and awe for God:
"And now, Israel, what does God want of you? Only that you remain in awe of the Lord your God, following in all His paths and loving Him." [Deut. 10:12]
What is awe of God? Why is this trait so important?
Two Types of Awe
Awe exists on different levels. The qualities of "yirat shamayim" (awe of Heaven) and "yirat cheit" (literally, 'fear of sin', but better translated as 'repulsion from sin') share the same root. "Yirat shamayim" is theoretical, in the mind and heart. "Yirat cheit", on the other hand, is practical, in deed and action. As a result of our perception of God's greatness, we feel reverence towards Him - "yirat shamayim" - and are acutely aware of the repugnance of sin - "yirat cheit".
(There is a third type of fear, "yirat onesh" - 'fear of punishment'. However, this trait reflects a weak personality; it is not a beneficial trait that should be emulated.)
Love and Awe
Love and Awe are opposite traits. The positive attraction to good and holiness inevitably leads us to wisdom and love. The negative revulsion from all that is evil and defiling purifies our thoughts and actions. These are converse traits, yet they are interconnected. Because of our attraction to good, we are repelled by evil; and by avoiding evil, we remain on the path of life, directed towards positive aspirations and yearnings.
The Sages disagreed on the basic question: which is the more important trait? Which quality is greater - love of God, or awe of Heaven?
The Talmud [Shabbat 31b] relates that once Rabbi Elazar and Rabbi Simon were sitting together, when a third scholar passed by. Rabbi Elazar told Rabbi Simon, 'Let us stand up out of respect for this God-fearing individual.' Rabbi Simon replied, 'Let us stand up for this Torah scholar.' Rabbi Elazar retorted, 'I mentioned his greater quality - that he is God-fearing - and you insist on emphasizing a lesser one!'
According to Rabbi Elazar, awe of Heaven is the more fundamental trait. He would often say, "God has only awe of heaven in His world." He further declared that awe of God is the basis of all wisdom; in fact, it is the only true wisdom in the world. What does this mean?
... Read more @ http://www.ravkooktorah.org/EKEV63.htm
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Personally I think Hindus are good people but I cannot accept anyone who believes and worships idols. This is 100% counter to the Jewish belief and we are to smash idols.
not all Hindus pray to idols, and not all hindus consider idol as G-d. the true hindu sage/saint is religion does not even require a temple to offer his/her service to G-d. Bakti i.e. Meditation and chanting of mantras are considered the highest service.
Does your religion believe that there is only one supreme being? Do you only worship to this Master of the Universe? My discussions with my hindu friends indicates it is not a simple question... There are gods which have various powers under the master G-d... These gods are idols...
muman bro this article will give you an idea. In this link there is no idol/symbolism.. so you can go through the text without any hesitation.
http://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/knowledge/index.php?print/id:161
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Personally I think Hindus are good people but I cannot accept anyone who believes and worships idols. This is 100% counter to the Jewish belief and we are to smash idols.
not all Hindus pray to idols, and not all hindus consider idol as G-d. the true hindu sage/saint is religion does not even require a temple to offer his/her service to G-d. Bakti i.e. Meditation and chanting of mantras are considered the highest service.
Does your religion believe that there is only one supreme being? Do you only worship to this Master of the Universe? My discussions with my hindu friends indicates it is not a simple question... There are gods which have various powers under the master G-d... These gods are idols...
Also could you answer what it is your G-d wants from you?
PS: I am not looking for argument... I also don't intend any offense... I have understanding, and get along with, people from all backgrounds...
thank you. the aim of religious hindus is to get moksha(liberation from the cycle of birth,death,reincarnation) and to uplift our soul to spiritual enlightenment. For which taking the holy name of god throughout one's life and living life according to "Gita" or as ordained by one's spiritual masters is neccessary.
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America really needs to get back to it's Judeo-Christian belief and fast. At the rate America is going it is losing its identity.
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Personally I think Hindus are good people but I cannot accept anyone who believes and worships idols. This is 100% counter to the Jewish belief and we are to smash idols.
not all Hindus pray to idols, and not all hindus consider idol as G-d. the true hindu sage/saint is religion does not even require a temple to offer his/her service to G-d. Bakti i.e. Meditation and chanting of mantras are considered the highest service.
Does your religion believe that there is only one supreme being? Do you only worship to this Master of the Universe? My discussions with my hindu friends indicates it is not a simple question... There are gods which have various powers under the master G-d... These gods are idols...
muman bro this article will give you an idea. In this link there is no idol/symbolism.. so you can go through the text without any hesitation.
http://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/knowledge/index.php?print/id:161
Brother HinduZionist,
From what I read at that site I do believe that according to Judaism it is Idolatry...
We don't believe that Hashem has any form, substance, color, odor, or body... What does this mean?
C. Name and form of the manifest form: When G-d manifests Himself He carries out His mission assuming a form and a Name like Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Prajapati, Minakshi, etc. Even the complexion of every form is predetermined. Some examples are enlisted below.
Complexion Meaning of the complexion
1. Shiva White Absolute purity
2. Vishnu Blue, yellowish green
(rarely) Divine blue water*, divine blue
dot, crimson colour, prosperity
3. Brahma White with a yellow or
saffron tinge Beginning of spiritual
experiences
4. Prajapati Dark blue Limitless, vast, divine, eternal
5. Minakshi Various colours like
yellow, blue, black etc. Principle of the feminine form
According to Jewish belief the fact that Hinduism believes that the Creator has a physical manifestation makes it idolatry. We believe he is without form, infinite, and unknowable..
it is telling us that he is formless, but can manifest. in the gita it says the highest mode to worship him is in his formless nature. the philosophy might be complex. But my request to you is, dont generalize all hindus as idol worshippers. I dont want you to learn about hindu philosohpy, as you are a jew, i have great admiration for that. And also have no doubt in my mind that a religious jew will certainly attain Moksha :)
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America really needs to get back to it's Judeo-Christian belief and fast. At the rate America is going it is losing its identity.
yes for that to happen, all the missionaries from israel and india need to be deported to America. First stop the Sin City flourishing in America, rather than worrying about Hindu tribals.
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HZ,
I certainly respect your faith and I don't pass judgement on you or your beliefs... I also appreciate your understanding of the Jewish faith.
Thank you
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America really needs to get back to it's Judeo-Christian belief and fast. At the rate America is going it is losing its identity.
yes for that to happen, all the missionaries from israel and india need to be deported to America. First stop the Sin City flourishing in America, rather than worrying about Hindu tribals.
Now this I totally agree with! I'd like to see the Christian Missionaries go to Saudi in all honesty. Let a few them be stoned, raped, and beheaded so the rest of America wakes up to the vileness of Islam.
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Muman, strictly speaking Hinduism doesn't believe in separate gds, it is a pantheism, so everything is G-d (Brahm) and G-d is everything. There are different faces of Brahm, such as Shiva, Kali, Ganesh, etc., but they aren't really separate, autonomous gds.
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Reincarnation is not a solely hindu idea... Judaism has had the concept of reincarnation, called Gilgul, since the beginning of Jewish thought.
This is where I am confused. I've heard both versions. Either you live once and die, and your bones wait for the return of the Messiah and then grow flesh and become alive again. You you keep moving through different bodies through Gilgul. (Don't get offended, Hindu Zionist, but I heard that Hinduism got this idea from Judaism that has had it for thousands of years). So, what will it be? Will good people be reincarnated only once with the return of the Messiah or will everyone's soul transmigrate? Let's say that person A's soul transmigrated into person B into C ... and, eventually, Z. Then person Z died. And then the Messiah came. Whose bones will grow flesh again? Person A's? B's? ... Z's? All of them? But that's the same soul. Only one of them? So the other bones will lie in the ground unclaimed? What's the real story?
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Reincarnation is not a solely hindu idea... Judaism has had the concept of reincarnation, called Gilgul, since the beginning of Jewish thought.
This is where I am confused. I've heard both versions. Either you live once and die, and your bones wait for the return of the Messiah and then grow flesh and become alive again. You you keep moving through different bodies through Gilgul. (Don't get offended, Hindu Zionist, but I heard that Hinduism got this idea from Judaism that has had it for thousands of years). So, what will it be? Will good people be reincarnated only once with the return of the Messiah or will everyone's soul transmigrate? Let's say that person A's soul transmigrated into person B into C ... and, eventually, Z. Then person Z died. And then the Messiah came. Whose bones will grow flesh again? Person A's? B's? ... Z's? All of them? But that's the same soul. Only one of them? So the other bones will lie in the ground unclaimed? What's the real story?
I think this discussion should be started in the Torah Ideas section instead of the General Discussion area...
At one time I started a thread with this topic... Let me see if I can find it...
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,32707.msg333301.html#msg333301
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,32707.msg333306.html#msg333306
This discusses double/quadruple gilgul...
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Do Hindus worship Vishnu or Ganesh?
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Vishnu and Ganesh are two different faces of Brahm and they are worshipped and reverenced at specific times. Everything is Brahm, and Brahm is everything.
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Vishnu and Ganesh are two different faces of Brahm and they are worshipped and reverenced at specific times. Everything is Brahm, and Brahm is everything.
I would ask that we refrain from using names of foreign gods. Hashem is a jealous G-d and he commanded Jews to never utter their names.
You shall have no other gods before Me: do not make a graven image for yourself, nor any manner of likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; do not bow down to them nor serve them, for I the Lord your G-d am a jealous G-d, visiting the iniquity of the parents upon the children to the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me, and showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
Exodus 23
12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest; that thine ox and thine ass may have rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed.
13 And in all things that I have said unto you take ye heed; and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.
14 Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto Me in the year.
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We are having a discussion about Hinduism. I never said we should worship those gds.
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We are having a discussion about Hinduism. I never said we should worship those gds.
The issue is that a Jew should never mention the name of these... Should a Jew read this and say it, you have led him to sin...
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I can't comment on that. You should ask Chaim on that one. Chaim has said Allah before though, so I assume it isn't wrong unless you mean to worship that devil.
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I can't comment on that. You should ask Chaim on that one. Chaim has said Allah before though, so I assume it isn't wrong unless you mean to worship that devil.
I don't know about Allah... I have heard it said that that Islam is considered monotheistic and therefore a Jew is allowed to visit a mosque, but not to visit a church... As we discussed last year it is an issue of halacha... I don't think that allah is a name of Hashem, but I don't know if it is considered a foreign deity...
In Torah the major 'Avodah Zarah' is Baal... Baal was a vile idol who was worshiped in the most disgusting fashion...
According to Mechon Mamre:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/gentiles.htm
While it is recognized that Moslems worship the same God that we do (though calling him Allah, He is the same God of Israel), even those who follow the tenets of their religion cannot be considered righteous in the eyes of God, because they do not accept that the Written Torah in the hands of the Jews today is the original Torah handed down by God and they do not accept the Seven Laws of Noah as binding on them.
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I would call Allah a pretty vile idol. Chaim says that Jews are not allowed to visit mosques.
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I would call Allah a pretty vile idol. Chaim says that Jews are not allowed to visit mosques.
This is the question which was posed to Rabbi at Yeshiva.org.il :
http://www.yeshiva.org.il/ask/eng/default.aspx?cat=489
Question:
I recently saw a rpely to a question stating that a Jew is not permitted to enter a Christian place of worship because the Rambam stated that Christianity is considered idolatry(which is quite obvious since they have images of dead men, crucifixes,etc). But also, I read one response that says that Islam is not considered idolatry, simply that a Qur’an is considered a collection of falsehood and lies. Now, my question is, can a Jew enter a mosque for any reason whatsoever, since allah is not the G-D of Israel, but in fact the name came from a Meccan moon G-d(they still claim he is our G-D, though)? What about a Baha’i or Sikh house of worship,since they,as well as Muslims,are forbidden to make images?
Answer:
Entering a Moslem mosque is subject to dispute.
The Tzitz Eliezer (14, 91) prohibits like any other idol worshiping place and most other opinions allow (Yabia Omer 7 YD 12)
For the other religions, I don't know what they believe in or how their temples operate but I assume they are also a form of idol worshiping and as such, entry to their temples is strictly prohibited.
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Allah is a deity that is the polar opposite of our G-d. If he is based on lies, he is a false god.
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Everyone here knows that I personally hate Islam and all it represents... What I am quoting is Jewish halacha {law}...
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I just hope Americans don't start thinking gau jal is a tasty refreshment. If that happens, the transition to third world banana republic will be complete.
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I just hope Americans don't start thinking gau jal is a tasty refreshment. If that happens, the transition to third world banana republic will be complete.
I have no idea what that is? Could you please elaborate?
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I just hope Americans don't start thinking gau jal is a tasty refreshment. If that happens, the transition to third world banana republic will be complete.
I have no idea what that is? Could you please elaborate?
It's the unique new drink from the Hindu nationalist community that's supposed to compete with coke and pepsi.
The can will probably look something like this:
(http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:hksV5Nptw9SLFM:http://wtfoodge.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/cowurinesoda-thumb.jpg)
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I just hope Americans don't start thinking gau jal is a tasty refreshment. If that happens, the transition to third world banana republic will be complete.
I have no idea what that is? Could you please elaborate?
It's the unique new drink from the Hindu nationalist community that's supposed to compete with coke and pepsi.
The can will probably look something like this:
(http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:hksV5Nptw9SLFM:http://wtfoodge.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/cowurinesoda-thumb.jpg)
Oy Vey!
I don't think anything can touch my desire for Coke.
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I just hope Americans don't start thinking gau jal is a tasty refreshment. If that happens, the transition to third world banana republic will be complete.
I have no idea what that is? Could you please elaborate?
It's the unique new drink from the Hindu nationalist community that's supposed to compete with coke and pepsi.
The can will probably look something like this:
(http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:hksV5Nptw9SLFM:http://wtfoodge.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/cowurinesoda-thumb.jpg)
Oy Vey!
I don't think anything can touch my desire for Coke.
Be glad you're Jewish and not in the RSS. lol
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Everyone here knows that I personally hate Islam and all it represents... What I am quoting is Jewish halacha {law}...
Chaim has said that it is permitted to pretend to convert to Islam to save your life, but not to enter a mosque for any other reason.
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Everyone here knows that I personally hate Islam and all it represents... What I am quoting is Jewish halacha {law}...
Chaim has said that it is permitted to pretend to convert to Islam to save your life, but not to enter a mosque for any other reason.
Do you know the source {other than Chaim} for this? I have quoted two sources and there are many others which explain this Halacha...
Chabads Rabbi:
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/255,2400/Am-I-allowed-to-enter-a-church-or-mosque.html
Entering a mosque does not pose a problem, since Islam is based on a belief in the one-and-only G-d.
The Halachas of Entering a Mosque
http://torahmedia.com/search/fileinfo.php?sid=eogb81kro8r29ro&cid=&directlink=23757&frompage=
Orthodox Union mentions Rav Yosefs answer on this question:
http://www.ou.org/torah/dafyomi/5763/032103.htm
Accordingly, in one of his Responsa, Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef points out that a Jew may visit a mosque. Indeed, religious Jews of Kiriat Arba conduct Jewish prayer services in the designated Jewish synagogue located in the mosque of the Machpelah cave. For the same reason, in order to ease the difficulties caused by the Shemittah year, the Israeli Rabbinate has ruled that real estate in Israel can be temporarily sold to Arabs without violating the Torah prohibition against selling land to idolaters, "Lo Techanem."
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Those are two opinions... I still don't get how they don't consider Allah to be an idol. That "deity" bears no relationship with the G-d of Scripture.
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To me there is no difference between those gods and bugs bunny.
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To me there is no difference between those gods and bugs bunny.
Very good answer!
Wait... I hear there is a cult of Bugs Bunny... Ohhh Ohhh!!!!
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To me there is no difference between those gods and bugs bunny.
Very good answer!
Actually Bugs Bunny has much more significance to me. My bad.
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Those are two opinions... I still don't get how they don't consider Allah to be an idol. That "deity" bears no relationship with the G-d of Scripture.
Well, in my experience, I fully agree with you...
Hashem tells the Jewish nation to choose life, and the Islamic nation to choose death, to kill, to steal, to plunder...
The Jewish nation is the blessing, the Islamic nation is the curse...
I fully agree with that idea... But there is something the early sages found in it to mostly agree that it is monotheistic.
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Allah is not God. There was this guy on Pal Talk who had a great idea. He named his female dog Allah so that Allah would be his.. well, you know. :laugh:
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I found this if it is helpful:
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:OJ1chUNjAjYJ:www.halachicworld.com/%255Cshow.asp%3FPID%3D9+jew+%22enter+a+mosque%22&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
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Allah is not G-d. There was this guy on Pal Talk who had a great idea. He named his female dog Allah so that Allah would be his.. well, you know. :laugh:
This is one reason the Jews have kept Hashems names from being spoken except in proper situations. We believe his name to be Holy, as he is Holy. Hashem simply means "The Name"... We avoid using the actual pronunciation of the name so that nobody can profane it easily.
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I found this if it is helpful:
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:OJ1chUNjAjYJ:www.halachicworld.com/%255Cshow.asp%3FPID%3D9+jew+%22enter+a+mosque%22&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Yes, that site mentions both opinions...
Opinion 1: Chidushei HaRan, Tzitz Eliezer, and others
The Tzitz Eliezer (14:91) rules that it is forbidden to enter a mosque. He proves this from the words of the Chidushei HaRan in Sanhedrin (61b), who states that since Moslems bow to their prophet Mohammed during their prayers, they are considered at that time as serving Avodah Zarah. The Chidushei HaRan explains that although they are not confusing Mohammed with Hashem, because they serve him in a manner reserved for Hashem, their worship takes on the Halachic status of Avodah Zarah. The Tzitz Eliezer therefore states that since a mosque is a house designated for the equivalent of idol worship, one may not enter it.
Opinion 2: Rambam, Rav Ovadya Yosef, and others
The Yabia Omer disagrees with the Tzitz Eliezer. He quotes a responsum of the Rambam as stating that the worship of Moslems is not Avodah Zarah at all. The Rambam explains that although originally the Moslems were somewhat involved in idol worship, they eventually rejected it and realized that there is only one G-d. Moreover, Rav Ovadya quotes many Poskim who even maintain, as does he, that it is permitted to Daven and learn Torah in a mosque. (He quotes others who argue that this is inappropriate. They maintain that the powers of impurity that are there from the different form of worship, which is mainly based on the teachings of someone who denied the authenticity of our Torah, make this inappropriate.)
I just realized that this a quote from a Book I have on my shelf... I have Halachic World Vols I & II..
http://www.feldheim.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=978-1-58330-949-0&type=store&category=search
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Allah is not G-d. There was this guy on Pal Talk who had a great idea. He named his female dog Allah so that Allah would be his.. well, you know. :laugh:
This is one reason the Jews have kept Hashems names from being spoken except in proper situations. We believe his name to be Holy, as he is Holy. Hashem simply means "The Name"... We avoid using the actual pronunciation of the name so that nobody can profane it easily.
Yes I think that's very wise :)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c9xjodL1Gk&feature=related
This is hilarious.
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The conclusion of that article advises against visiting the mosque due to reasons of 'displaying interest in other religions' and because of Islams disrespect toward Jews and Torah...
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:OJ1chUNjAjYJ:www.halachicworld.com/%255Cshow.asp%3FPID%3D9+jew+"enter+a+mosque"&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us (http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:OJ1chUNjAjYJ:www.halachicworld.com/%255Cshow.asp%3FPID%3D9+jew+"enter+a+mosque"&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)
Conclusion
Although one should ask his Rav such a question, it appears that one can rely on these lenient opinions in order to enter a mosque, if need be. However, to tour mosques is clearly not advisable, just as being overly interested in other religions is also not advisable. After all, as we mentioned above, Islam clearly has much in it that is against the Torah. Displaying interest in Islam is therefore not a healthy way to preserve one's portion in the World to Come.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c9xjodL1Gk&feature=related
This is hilarious.
Who is that supposed to be, Thor?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c9xjodL1Gk&feature=related
This is hilarious.
Who is that supposed to be, Thor?
LOL, If you don't watch Family Guy you won't get it.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c9xjodL1Gk&feature=related
This is hilarious.
Who is that supposed to be, Thor?
LOL, If you don't watch Family Guy you won't get it.
I don't think making fun of the real God is very funny.
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I agree with Rubystars. I never was able to get into Family Guy, its knockoff American Dad, or even South Park for the life of me. I prefer the Simpsons, KOTH, and Beavis & Butthead (although I have not seen very much of it).
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c9xjodL1Gk&feature=related
This is hilarious.
Who is that supposed to be, Thor?
LOL, If you don't watch Family Guy you won't get it.
I don't think making fun of the real G-d is very funny.
It's not making fun. It's just just bring funny using basic stereotypes.
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Pinky and the Brain
(http://www.stuffwelike.com/stuffwelike/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/pinky_and_the_brain.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPFSNu_QNs
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I agree with Rubystars. I never was able to get into Family Guy, its knockoff American Dad, or even South Park for the life of me. I prefer the Simpsons, KOTH, and Beavis & Butthead (although I have not seen very much of it).
To each his own. At least you and I both LOVE "Bones" 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Pinky and the Brain
(http://www.stuffwelike.com/stuffwelike/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/pinky_and_the_brain.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPFSNu_QNs
BRILLIANT SHOW!!!!!!!!!!!! BRINGS BACK MEMORIES!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRWE_lqoMiI
This is the cutest thing ever!!
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I LOVED Pinky and the Brain. And Bonkers.
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Spielberg is a genius. I wonder is he pro-Kahane in any way.
Ooops...
Spielberg doesn't have a good rap around here...
Some of his political problems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Spielberg
Politics
* Spielberg generally supports U.S. Democratic Party candidates. He has donated over $800,000 for the Democratic party and its nominees. He has been a close friend of former President Bill Clinton and worked with the President for the USA Millennium celebrations. He directed an 18-minute film for the project, scored by John Williams and entitled The American Journey. It was shown at America's Millennium Gala on December 31, 1999, in the National Mall at the Reflecting Pool at the base of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C..[44]
* Spielberg resigned as an advisory board member of his local boy scout council in 2001 because of his disapproval of the BSA's anti-homosexuality stance.[45][46]
* Spielberg joined Jeffrey Katzenberg and Haim Saban in endorsing the re-election of Hollywood friend Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Republican Governor of California, on August 7, 2006.
* On February 20, 2007, Spielberg, Katzenberg, and David Geffen invited Democrats to a fundraiser for Barack Obama,[47]. But on June 14, 2007, Spielberg endorsed Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) for President. While Geffen and Katzenberg supported Obama, Spielberg was always a supporter of Hillary Clinton. However Spielberg directed a video for Obama at the DNC in August 2008 and attended Obama's inauguration.
* In February 2008, Spielberg pulled out of his role as advisor to the 2008 Beijing Olympics in response to the Chinese government's inaction over the War in Darfur.[48] Spielberg said in a statement that "I find that my conscience will not allow me to continue business as usual." It also said that "Sudan's government bears the bulk of the responsibility for these on-going crimes, but the international community, and particularly China, should be doing more.."[49] The International Olympic Committee respected Spielberg's decision, but IOC president Jacques Rogge admitted in an interview that "[Spielberg] certainly would have brought a lot to the opening ceremony in terms of creativity."[50] Spielberg's statement drew criticism from Chinese officials and state-run media calling his criticism "unfair."[51] Academy Award-nominated Chinese director Zhang Yimou ultimately directed the ceremonies, to wide international acclaim.
* In September 2008, Spielberg and his wife offered their support to same-sex marriage, by issuing a statement following their donation of $100,000 to the "No on Proposition 8" campaign fund, a figure equal to the amount of money Brad Pitt donated to the same campaign less than a week prior.[52]
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Spielberg is a genius. I wonder is he pro-Kahane in any way.
This schmuck considers himself to be a negro (not joking-look it up) and in general is one of the most disgusting Jews on the planet in my opinion and Chaim's. Ask Chaim about this human roach sometime on Ask JTF.
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my bad :o :o :o :o
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my bad :o :o :o :o
We can just let that one slip, right? Chalk it up to me just not being informed? :eat: :eat: ??? ??? ???
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my bad :o :o :o :o
We can just let that one slip, right? Chalk it up to me just not being informed? :eat: :eat: ??? ??? ???
You certainly didnt change my opinion of you.....
It is still good... :)
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my bad :o :o :o :o
We can just let that one slip, right? Chalk it up to me just not being informed? :eat: :eat: ??? ??? ???
You certainly didnt change my opinion of you.....
It is still good... :)
Truth is all I said anyways was that he was a genius. Meaning Hashem gave him the ability to make awesome movies and sweet cartoons and stuff. He can be a total jerk off but his stuff can be good. Looks like I've got a few strikes against me here - - - I love sports, I am a huge fan of tv and movies that are written by or contain actors that are anti-semites or self hating jews, I get tempted easily by the anti-religious things I used to do, and I like music that is written by mostly druggies, anti-semites, and self hating Jews. Not to mention one of my best friends is STILL dating a brown shiktze despite my efforts and I smoke cigarettes.
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my bad :o :o :o :o
We can just let that one slip, right? Chalk it up to me just not being informed? :eat: :eat: ??? ??? ???
You certainly didnt change my opinion of you.....
It is still good... :)
Truth is all I said anyways was that he was a genius. Meaning Hashem gave him the ability to make awesome movies and sweet cartoons and stuff. He can be a total jerk off but his stuff can be good. Looks like I've got a few strikes against me here - - - I love sports, I am a huge fan of tv and movies that are written by or contain actors that are anti-semites or self hating jews, I get tempted easily by the anti-religious things I used to do, and I like music that is written by mostly druggies, anti-semites, and self hating Jews. Not to mention one of my best friends is STILL dating a brown shiktze despite my efforts and I smoke cigarettes.
Oy Gevalt!
You are young and life is forgiving... I don't think liking spielberg is the end of the world... I liked a few of his movies too...
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I just hope Americans don't start thinking gau jal is a tasty refreshment. If that happens, the transition to third world banana republic will be complete.
most americans are already degrading themself with alcohol and liquors without even drinking gau jal, if you feel gau jal is bad, good for you. ANd if it were indeed that bad, hindus woudnt have existed through last 5000 years. Every state in India where Hindu Nationalists are ruling have banned liquors, can you tell me which Republican in America has done so?
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I just hope Americans don't start thinking gau jal is a tasty refreshment. If that happens, the transition to third world banana republic will be complete.
most americans are already degrading themself with alcohol and liquors without even drinking gau jal, if you feel gau jal is bad, good for you. ANd if it were indeed that bad, hindus woudnt have existed through last 5000 years.
It's not poison, just grosses out my American sensibilities.
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I just hope Americans don't start thinking gau jal is a tasty refreshment. If that happens, the transition to third world banana republic will be complete.
most americans are already degrading themself with alcohol and liquors without even drinking gau jal, if you feel gau jal is bad, good for you. ANd if it were indeed that bad, hindus woudnt have existed through last 5000 years.
It's not poison, just grosses out my American sensibilities.
liquors affect the blood-brain barrier, mortality, etc. if that is not poison, then what is? It is yet to be determined if gau-jal does so. If gau-jal was poisonous, how are religious hindus surviving?
Liquors have claimed lives of millions of amercians. What have Republicans who want to uphold American heritage done to stop this? Intead of blaming Hindus, learn to look at how your own people behave, hasnt Jesus asked us to do so?
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liquors affect the blood-brain barrier, mortality, etc. if that is not poison, then what is? It is yet to be determined if gau-jal does so. If gau-jal was poisonous, how are religious hindus serviving?
Gau Jal is not poisonous, but it is gross. I don't see how people on this forum can make jokes about Muslims and camel pee and give a free pass on Gau Jal. Both practices are just as yucky.
Liquors have claimed lives of millions of amercians. What have Republicans who want to uphold American heritage done to stop this? Intead of blaming Hindus, learn to look at how your own people behave, hasnt Jesus asked us to do so?
The Republican party is full of a bunch of liars. They proved that then they failed to follow through on their "contract with America". Alcohol abuse is not a right wing/left wing problem. It affects people of all backgrounds. On the other hand, at least alcohol is clean, that is, it didn't come out of the back end of an animal as a waste product to be eliminated. Christians believe that Jesus' first miracle was to turn water into wine. Because of my cultural background, I see things like drinking urine as being the lowest level of living. It's dirty and just the idea makes me feel sick.
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liquors affect the blood-brain barrier, mortality, etc. if that is not poison, then what is? It is yet to be determined if gau-jal does so. If gau-jal was poisonous, how are religious hindus serviving?
Gau Jal is not poisonous, but it is gross. I don't see how people on this forum can make jokes about Muslims and camel pee and give a free pass on Gau Jal. Both practices are just as yucky.
Liquors have claimed lives of millions of amercians. What have Republicans who want to uphold American heritage done to stop this? Intead of blaming Hindus, learn to look at how your own people behave, hasnt Jesus asked us to do so?
The Republican party is full of a bunch of liars. They proved that then they failed to follow through on their "contract with America". Alcohol abuse is not a right wing/left wing problem. It affects people of all backgrounds. On the other hand, at least alcohol is clean, that is, it didn't come out of the back end of an animal as a waste product to be eliminated. Christians believe that Jesus' first miracle was to turn water into wine. Because of my cultural background, I see things like drinking urine as being the lowest level of living. It's dirty and just the idea makes me feel sick.
people around the world have been eating pretzels and other commodities(fermentation of sugars, yeast nutrients,teeth whitening products) where urea is used, we all know where urea is obtained from. American compaines use urea for many products, and people of all kinds, left-right wing have used it.American sensiblities should also make you feel gross about these stuff too. Which i dont see. You can claim that urea is safe as it undergoes chemical changes from the urine form, but so does gau jal, when it goes through various filteration process.
Jesus might have turned water into wine, but did he also tell us to get drunk that we loose our senses? Lets exempt wine, but why not ban vodka like substances, nobody used vodka and whisky while performing miracles.
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Urea used by industry is synthesized from inorganic compounds. Pretzels are not full of pee. There's nothing gross or disgusting about alcohol consumption in moderation. I don't personally like vodka but there's nothing disgusting about alcohol if someone doesn't go overboard with it.
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nobody goes to see where the urea came from, if its synthetic or organically derived.
Eating pigs/pork is gross too, I would support Americans proud of their Judeo-Christian heritage, do something about that, rather than be worried about what hindus in india are doing.
coming back to an old post someone posted in this thread,
Neither British nor the Pootugese who came to India were civilized. Please do a search on how many Indian Jews Portugese invaders killed and forcefully converted Jews in India. During the British empire in India, Indian jews were not even recognised as minority religion, it is only after Hindus supported indian constitution, parsis and jews were recognised. Nobody gave democracy to india. Research some history, you will find the oldest system of democracy was practised by Buddhists.
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Hindus were absolutely right in their struggle against British colonists. The English were foreign invaders in India, just as they were in the Land of Israel.
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Hindus were absolutely right in their struggle against British colonists. The English were foreign invaders in India, just as they were in the Land of Israel.
:)
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Rubystars, I think this is an issue where we will have to accept Hindu culture and move on.
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Rubystars, I think this is an issue where we will have to accept Hindu culture and move on.
I just have trouble getting over the absolute vileness of someone deliberately drinking urine. I thought Ox tails were gross until I found out about gau jal. .
So forgive me if I don't necessarily see them as people to admire.
However I think their culture is something I can never understand because it's just so foreign to anything I've ever known.
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It's a lot better than Muslims believing it is completely halal (acceptable) to have sex with an animal so long as you don't slaughter it afterward.
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Rubystars, I think this is an issue where we will have to accept Hindu culture and move on.
However I think their culture is something I can never understand because it's just so foreign to anything I've ever known.
no problems Rubystars, as a Hindu nationalist i stand by Israel and a strong America and even Europe. :)
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Rubystars, I think this is an issue where we will have to accept Hindu culture and move on.
However I think their culture is something I can never understand because it's just so foreign to anything I've ever known.
no problems Rubystars, as a Hindu nationalist i stand by Israel and a strong America and even Europe. :)
There is one Hindu nationalist point I agree with, and that's that Pakistan should be part of India.
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Rubystars, I think this is an issue where we will have to accept Hindu culture and move on.
However I think their culture is something I can never understand because it's just so foreign to anything I've ever known.
no problems Rubystars, as a Hindu nationalist i stand by Israel and a strong America and even Europe. :)
There is one Hindu nationalist point I agree with, and that's that Pakistan should be part of India.
Thanx... that is sufficient.
;D