JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rubystars on August 19, 2009, 08:33:42 PM
-
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/9956970/IAAF-asks-for-gender-test-on-runner-Semenya?GT1=39002
This is absolutely insane. They want to prove that this athlete is a female. Ok, fair enough, I think that's a good thing to do. However, rather than a very simple test (What's in your pants), they have to get an "extremely complex, difficult test ". What the heck? How complex is it to find out if someone has a penis or a vagina?
The article goes on to say:
"The verification test requires a physical medical evaluation, and includes reports from a gynecologist, endocrinologist, psychologist, an internal medicine specialist and an expert on gender."
What the heck?
The gynecologist should be enough, shouldn't it?
The only reason I could think of for it to be more complex is if she had ambiguous genitalia, then at that point I could see further tests, but for the vast majority of people, a simple look in the pants would be enough to confirm male or female. Heck, my kittens are easy to tell whether they're male or female by a simple lifting of the tail.
-
I want to laugh too but then I wonder if this is how Obama's health care plan would be, terribly inefficient and unecessarily complex.
-
I guess they want to really make sure.
Im thinking they want to delete any chance of any kind of fraud (ie:the doc getting paid off) so thus, the multiple reports.
-
I saw that one!
Yeah, just look under!
Male or female? hmmmm.
-
Rubystars I'm surprise of what you say. This athlete is obviously has ambiguous genitalia. Just take a look at him/her and any other male athlete. The physique is very similar, except one particular detail. There are all sort of possibilities of either a female or a male. It is also possible that this is just a case of steroid abuse. The only way to be sure is to take samples and have a gender test in a lab.
But even if this athlete is a female and she didn't use forbidden drugs, I still think she has an unfair advantage since her body obviously operates on a "male" mode.
May be it is time to add further classes of competition, designated to freaks of nature of specific types.
-
I guess they want to really make sure.
Im thinking they want to delete any chance of any kind of fraud (ie:the doc getting paid off) so thus, the multiple reports.
Why not have some of the other athletes and/or a same sex coach in a shower or locker room look? It would save time and money. Unless you have a medical condition that gives you ambiguous genitalia, then it should be quick and simple to tell if someone's a male or female.
Rubystars I'm surprise of what you say. This athlete is obviously has ambiguous genitalia. Just take a look at him/her and any other male athlete. The physique is very similar, except one particular detail. There are all sort of possibilities of either a female or a male. It is also possible that this is just a case of steroid abuse. The only way to be sure is to take samples and have a gender test in a lab.
But even if this athlete is a female and she didn't use forbidden drugs, I still think she has an unfair advantage since her body obviously operates on a "male" mode.
May be it is time to add further classes of competition, designated to freaks of nature of specific types.
I don't understand why they can't just look in her gym shorts? I mean how do you know her genitals are ambiguous if nobody has taken a peek?
-
Actually, her coach claims that other athletes saw her naked in the shower. I read it in a different article. But anyway as a principle, I think it is more respectful to spare her/him an invasive examination which might turn inconclusive results. I think they used such methods in the 1970s, but there are better ways nowadays.
-
I saw "her" pic yesterday, rather disgusting. My guess is that she is a biological female who's pumped herself so full of steroids she has entered an androgynous oblivion.
-
I think Bonesfan's guess is likely correct. She shove over 7 seconds of her personal best in less than a year.
-
I think Bonesfan's guess is likely correct. She shove over 7 seconds of her personal best in less than a year.
I tend to agree but then why not do extensive drug testing first? Wouldn't it be logical to eliminate the use of banned drugs before running gender tests?
-
Even if peeking in the shower would be a little too informal, why do they need all these specialists? Why not just get a report from the gynecologist?
-
I think Bonesfan's guess is likely correct. She shove over 7 seconds of her personal best in less than a year.
I tend to agree but then why not do extensive drug testing first? Wouldn't it be logical to eliminate the use of banned drugs before running gender tests?
If the steroid use had stopped a certain time before the competition, than she can come clear a drug test. Mind you she hasn't participated in any serious competitions before so the only party who may have tested her is the South African athletics association (mmm hmmm).
-
Mind you she hasn't participated in any serious competitions before so the only party who may have tested her is the South African athletics association (mmm hmmm).
Very good point.
-
I think Bonesfan's guess is likely correct. She shove over 7 seconds of her personal best in less than a year.
I tend to agree but then why not do extensive drug testing first? Wouldn't it be logical to eliminate the use of banned drugs before running gender tests?
If the steroid use had stopped a certain time before the competition, than she can come clear a drug test. Mind you she hasn't participated in any serious competitions before so the only party who may have tested her is the South African athletics association (mmm hmmm).
You're implying that she heavily dosed up on steroids a long time ago, built up a high level of testosterone and muscle and has been off of them for at least 6 months so they will not be detectable. If so, then the gender test will show she is a woman. I wonder if part of it includes tests for the level of testosterone in her system. I'm not sure how that would work but it may be why they just don't lift her skirt and take a peek.
-
I think she does look like she has been using steroids or something.
-
Ruby, does the IAAF think that Caster is a transvestite?
She appears to have male features and a male body. I also noticed in the article there is no reference to ' she ' so was there a legal reason they did not refer to Caster as a she?
they said quote: We entered Caster as a woman and we want to keep it that way,"
Shalom - Dox
-
The only reason I could think of for it to be more complex is if she had ambiguous genitalia, then at that point I could see further tests, but for the vast majority of people, a simple look in the pants would be enough to confirm male or female.
Ambiguous genitalia? A vagenis? :::D
-
The only reason I could think of for it to be more complex is if she had ambiguous genitalia, then at that point I could see further tests, but for the vast majority of people, a simple look in the pants would be enough to confirm male or female.
Ambiguous genitalia? A vagenis? :::D
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/MEDLINEPLUS/ency/article/003269.htm
"Ambiguous genitalia is a birth defect where the outer genitals do not have the typical appearance of either a boy or a girl."
If the process that causes this fetal tissue to become "male" or "female" is disrupted, ambiguous genitalia can develop. This genitalia makes it difficult to classify the infant as male or female. The extent of the ambiguity varies. In very rare instances, the physical appearance may be fully developed as the opposite of the genetic sex. For example, a genetic male may have developed the appearance of a normal female.
Typically, ambiguous genitalia in genetic females (babies with two X chromosomes) has the following features:
An enlarged clitoris that has the appearance of a small penis.
The urethral opening (where urine comes out) can be anywhere along, above, or below the surface of the clitoris.
The labia may be fused, resembling a scrotum.
The infant may be thought to be a male with undescended testicles.
Sometimes a lump of tissue is felt within the fused labia, further making it look like a scrotum with testicles.
In a genetic male (one X and one Y chromosome), ambiguous genitalia typically include the following features:
A small penis (less than 2-3 centimeters or 0.8-1.2 inches) that resemble an enlarged clitoris (the clitoris of a newborn female is normally somewhat enlarged at birth).
The urethral opening may be anywhere along, above, or below the penis; it can be placed as low as on the peritoneum, further making the infant appear to be female.
There may be a small scrotum with any degree of separation, resembling labia.
Undescended testicles commonly accompany ambiguous genitalia.
Ambiguous genitalia is usually not life threatening (see Causes section for exceptions ), but can create social problems for the child and the family. For this reason, a team of experienced specialists, including neonatologists, geneticists, endocrinologists, and psychiatrists or social workers will be involved.
-
I saw that person. It goes look like a guy. SERIOUSLY, I think that chick's a dude, eh!
-
I noticed the picture of this ' supposed african woman ' and if you look carefully you see she has no waistline. It's straight like a mans.
-
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/9956970/IAAF-asks-for-gender-test-on-runner-Semenya?GT1=39002
This is absolutely insane. They want to prove that this athlete is a female. Ok, fair enough, I think that's a good thing to do. However, rather than a very simple test (What's in your pants), they have to get an "extremely complex, difficult test ". What the heck? How complex is it to find out if someone has a penis or a vagina?
The article goes on to say:
"The verification test requires a physical medical evaluation, and includes reports from a gynecologist, endocrinologist, psychologist, an internal medicine specialist and an expert on gender."
What the heck?
The gynecologist should be enough, shouldn't it?
The only reason I could think of for it to be more complex is if she had ambiguous genitalia, then at that point I could see further tests, but for the vast majority of people, a simple look in the pants would be enough to confirm male or female. Heck, my kittens are easy to tell whether they're male or female by a simple lifting of the tail.
I thought exactly the same. But perhaps he/she/it is transgender, so it wouldn't be that easy.
-
I heard this wo-man on the radio and she sure as heck sounds like a man.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBm9PJ3-16c&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.google.com%2Fnews%2Fsection%3Fpz%3D1%26topic%3Ds%26ict%3Dln&feature=player_embedded#t=19
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i943eElJlaoUL9GgTf8euXX_HfIwD9A75DDO0
I still think it is a woman who overdosed on steroids and possibly male hormones. The corner of her jaw seems female to me. I also try to look at the hands, especially the index vs. the ring finger, but I couldn't see a clear view.
-
She has a straight waist and her hips are also straight.
If she is on steroids, isn't that illegal in sport competition?
-
steroids are illegal but there are ways to use them without being caught.
-
If they want to go to greater lengths wouldn't a simple DNA test suffice?
-
If they want to go to greater lengths wouldn't a simple DNA test suffice?
No, if she had been born with an intersex condition, she could be an XY genetic male, and still have female external genitalia and a female mind.