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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: takebackourtemple on March 07, 2010, 08:49:41 PM
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Here is a video about how Hollywood Humanizes Homeless trash. The video distorts the demographics of this excrement and tries to show how they are just as important as people who contribute to society. The one ethical issue though is whether such a procedure would be permitted under torah law. If you partially save one person to fully restore another, is that better than saving neither and is there an obligation to fully save the first without saving the latter.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/5614/the-invisible-man-it-hurts-when-you-do-this#x-0,vepisode,1,0
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Shalom,
I did not watch the video but I will explain my understanding.
Hashem has made some people rich and some people poor. Some people have skills which they have worked on and they have been given opportunity to excel. There are also people who have been made with defects, and have been born into families which don't provide the opportunities. Judaism says that it is the responsibility of the rich people to feed the poor people. There are many commandments including the commandment of leaving a corner of the field for the poor, so as to leave gleanings for them to eat.
A rich man cannot sit back and believe that he is rich only because of the work of his hand. A man is given blessing so that he can distribute it amongst his people, to make them better, and to thus make society better.
I can provide for you many examples of this idea:
http://www.aish.com/tp/ss/ssw/48884752.html
Dvar Torah
based on Love Your Neighbor by Rabbi Zelig Pliskin
The Torah states, "And when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corner of your field; and the gleanings of your harvest you shall not gather; for the poor and the stranger you shall leave them (the corners and the gleaning), I am the Lord your G-d (Leviticus 23:22)."
Why is the owner commanded to leave the corners and gleanings rather than being commanded to gather the produce and give it to the poor?
By not presenting the produce to the poor man, the poor man escapes the humiliation of being handed charity. Instead, he maintains his dignity as he feels that he is just taking what is his due by Torah law. It is important to be sensitive to others.
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0319.htm
http://www.torah.org/learning/halacha/classes/class95.html
1. It is a positive mitzvah to give charity to the poor of Israel, as [Deuteronomy 15:8] states: "You shall surely open your hand for him," and [Leviticus 25:36] states: "And your brother shall live with you." Whoever sees a poor man requesting help and turns away from him without giving him charity violates a negative command, as [Deuteronomy 15:7] states; "Do not close your heart or shut your hand from your poor brother."
Charity is the sign of the descendants of our Patriarch Abraham, as [Genesis 18:19] states: "for I know him; that he will command his children... to perform tzedakah."
The throne of Israel will not be established and the true faith will not stand except through tzedakah, as [Isaiah 54:14] states: "I shall be established through tzedakah." Giving tzedakah supersedes all the sacrifices, as [Proverbs 21:3] states: "The performance of tzedakah and judgement will be more desirable before G-d than an altar." Israel will be redeemed only through tzedakah, as [Isaiah 1:27] states: "Zion will be redeemed through judgement and those who return to her through tzedakah."
A person will never become poor because of giving tzedakah, nor will any evil or damage come because of tzedakah, as [Isaiah 32:17] states: "The work of tzedakah is peace." Whoever, shows mercy will have mercy shown towards him, as [Deuteronomy 13:18] states: "He will grant you mercy, have compassion on you, and make you flourish." In contrast, the lineage of anyone who is cruel is a matter of question.
The Holy One, blessed be He, is close to the call of the poor, as [Job 34:28] states: "And He hears the cries of the poor." Accordingly, one should take great care lest they cry out, for a covenant has ben established with them, as [Exodus 22:26] states: "And it shall come to pass that he will cry to Me, and I will hear, for I am compassionate." The Jerusalem Talmud (see Shir Hashirim Rabboh 6:11) states: "The door which will not open for the poor will open for the physician."
PS: I always carry an extra 2-3 dollars each day just in case a homeless person should ask, as today I gave a homeless man $1.
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Also, I am not talking about people who expect a handout like those on welfare, or those who get jobs through affirmative action... I believe everyone should have to work for their living... But there are poor people, and they need to be supported.
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I'd like to speak on the issue as well. I have lived poor before and it's not always because of drug problems or alcohol related issues, etc.
When I was growing up, my family was wealthy because my father worked for many of the large computer companies downtown Chicago and his life was ruined with some false allegations which my brother and I had to testify weren't true but in the end after thousands and thousands of dollars on attorneys, the loss of his job and all kinds of problems, we nearly lost everything including our home. There were times we couldn't afford our electricity and were lucky to buy a can of mac and cheese for dinner. We were very close to losing our home and being on the streets and it's not so easy to replace income like that.
It wasn't until my dad obtained social security that we were able to somewhat pay bills but that only lasts so long, wasn't until his death in 2003 that we had money again and then ran into issues with debt collectors and government coming after us for taxes when my mother was married to my father and we ended up getting screwed out of a lot of money and lived poor again. Actually we almost lost our home last year and ended up selling it.
Don't always assume that everyone that is poor or homeless deserved to be put there, sometimes things happen that cause a person to be homeless and sometimes people end up doing it to themselves.
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Could you please summarize what the ethical question is? I don't have time to watch the entire program... But it seems that there is more to the question than what do we think of homeless people... Please ask what the ethical question is...
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Wow.
I am really sorry that you think homeless human beings as trash. :o
I certainly don't agree with that.
I pray that you somehow would get more compassion.
I have been homeless, this was after being abandoned.
It's hard to keep a roof over your head sometimes, even when working 5 jobs, 7 days a week.
Many families with CHILDREN are homeless now, more than a year ago because of the housing crisis/mess.
I would think G-d does not look at them as trash or excrement.
Shalom.
Here is a video about how Hollywood Humanizes Homeless trash. The video distorts the demographics of this excrement and tries to show how they are just as important as people who contribute to society. The one ethical issue though is whether such a procedure would be permitted under torah law. If you partially save one person to fully restore another, is that better than saving neither and is there an obligation to fully save the first without saving the latter.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/5614/the-invisible-man-it-hurts-when-you-do-this#x-0,vepisode,1,0
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I'm not trying to start a war, just speaking my mind.... :)
I guess, having suffered from poverty, (I am doing better now) I will always defend the widow and the orphan.
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Maybe I should have become a lawyer.
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:-X
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A rich man cannot sit back and believe that he is rich only because of the work of his hand. A man is given blessing so that he can distribute it amongst his people, to make them better, and to thus make society better.
PS: I always carry an extra 2-3 dollars each day just in case a homeless person should ask, as today I gave a homeless man $1.
I just hope you are making society better instead of worse by giving to the homeless. I probably should have clarified that I am not against every homeless person, but I'm sure against the masses who are bums that only drain on society. Giving money to a random bum on the street is actually harmful to the bum, because you are supporting a dependency on handouts.
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I'm not trying to start a war, just speaking my mind.... :)
I guess, having suffered from poverty, (I am doing better now) I will always defend the widow and the orphan.
I understand that people are poor. In a society where the government does not feed and house everyone who is poor, I would understand how decent people end up on the streets. In this day and age though, it is the lowest of the low who end up there. Of course someone decent might end up without a home for a short period of time when their luck is bad, but for the most part, over %90 of the homeless that you see on the street are trash.
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The torah question is whether you can scrounge body parts from a homeless bum to restore a decent person if the homeless bum is about to die anyway and you can also save the bum in the process.
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The torah question is whether you can scrounge body parts from a homeless bum to restore a decent person if the homeless bum is about to die anyway and you can also save the bum in the process.
I am not 100% sure of halacha but I would say that anything which saves lives may be acceptable, but if anyone is harmed in the process it is probrobly not permitted. Some Rabbis permit using organs from a dead person but I personally think it should not be permitted.
here is what Aish.com says on the topic:
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48954401.html
The Organ Shortage
There is a severe shortage of organs for transplantation throughout the world, including in the most scientifically advanced countries. The U.S. Government reports that each day, about 74 people receive an organ transplant. However, another 18 people die each day waiting for transplants that can't take place because of the shortage of donated organs. (www.organdonor.gov)
While organ transplantation has offered a new life to those whose native organs have failed, it has raised a myriad of ethical questions. Although the issues raised in live and cadaveric donation are different, all organ transplantation questions have three ethical issues that must be clarified: with respect to the donor, the recipient, and society at large.
The Donor
As our discussion focuses on donors who are alive, the issues of desecration of the dead body and prolonging the burial do not apply. The issues that do arise are whether the donor is allowed to wound himself to donate the organ, and whether the harvesting is acceptably safe. In most cases, the prohibition of wounding oneself may be superceded by other considerations, such as medical necessity, or as in this case, saving the life of another.
The consensus of modern poskim1 (rabbinic legal decisors) is that one may undergo a small risk to save someone else from certain danger or death (see SARS and Self-Endangerment) Nevertheless, one may never obligate or coerce someone to donate an organ, even to save the life of another. Additionally, one may not significantly risk one's own health to save the life of another, and one who does is called a "pious fool."2
Donating a Kidney
With respect to kidney donation, the issue is whether the surgery poses a significant risk to the donor and whether living with only one kidney is an unacceptable risk.
Rabbi Moshe Feinstein,3 among other Rabbinic authorities,4 permitted, but did not require, the donation of a kidney to very ill person, considering the act to be a pious one.
Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, arguably the preeminent decisor of Jewish law in Israel during the latter part of the 20th century, ruled that "if the seriously ill patient is present (and known to him...) it is certainly permissible for a person to even undergo much suffering, for example, by donating his kidney, to save the life of the patient."5
...
http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48954401.html
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I'm not trying to start a war, just speaking my mind.... :)
I guess, having suffered from poverty, (I am doing better now) I will always defend the widow and the orphan.
I understand that people are poor. In a society where the government does not feed and house everyone who is poor, I would understand how decent people end up on the streets. In this day and age though, it is the lowest of the low who end up there. Of course someone decent might end up without a home for a short period of time when their luck is bad, but for the most part, over %90 of the homeless that you see on the street are trash.
You know this how? Do you know any homeless people personally? I do and I do all I can to help them... As I quoted above, those who do not open their hands to the poor will not have their prayers answered. Either this or you do not put any stock in the Torah... Torah repeats, as I said, several commandments which clearly indicate it is the responsibility of the rich to lend, and give to the poor...
Nobody says you have to give to people who don't truly need. But what do you know of the reasons a poor person is poor? There are certain laws about who deserves our charity first, and who deserves it second.
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I'm sorry, but I do not agree.
MANY homeless in the USA are Veteran's, people who served in our country and many times, fought in wars.
MANY are women or women with children.
MANY are now living in tents, etc due to the housing crisis.
Once again, human beings are not trash.
Shalom.
I'm not trying to start a war, just speaking my mind.... :)
I guess, having suffered from poverty, (I am doing better now) I will always defend the widow and the orphan.
I understand that people are poor. In a society where the government does not feed and house everyone who is poor, I would understand how decent people end up on the streets. In this day and age though, it is the lowest of the low who end up there. Of course someone decent might end up without a home for a short period of time when their luck is bad, but for the most part, over %90 of the homeless that you see on the street are trash.
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I give money to the homeless because G-d has provided for me my entire life. I don't think G-d would have watched over me the way he does if I had a cold heart and didn't care about those who were less fortunate than I.
Zadaka and Mitzvot are some of the most important actions of Judaism. G-d expects nothing less from us.
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I'm not trying to start a war, just speaking my mind.... :)
I guess, having suffered from poverty, (I am doing better now) I will always defend the widow and the orphan.
I understand that people are poor. In a society where the government does not feed and house everyone who is poor, I would understand how decent people end up on the streets. In this day and age though, it is the lowest of the low who end up there. Of course someone decent might end up without a home for a short period of time when their luck is bad, but for the most part, over %90 of the homeless that you see on the street are trash.
You know this how? Do you know any homeless people personally? I do and I do all I can to help them... As I quoted above, those who do not open their hands to the poor will not have their prayers answered. Either this or you do not put any stock in the Torah... Torah repeats, as I said, several commandments which clearly indicate it is the responsibility of the rich to lend, and give to the poor...
Nobody says you have to give to people who don't truly need. But what do you know of the reasons a poor person is poor? There are certain laws about who deserves our charity first, and who deserves it second.
I have nothing against the poor and agree that it is my torah duty to help the poor. I am against the drek that constitute >99% of the homeless rather the rare case of people who are just down on their luck. The hilltop youth in Yesha are examples of people who deserve our help and this is where you have just had a positive influence on me.
Ironically the last time I did open my hands to the poor my prayers were either not answered or answered with a no. Maybe I'm lacking in compassion for evil people but I sure do want the trash on the NYC subway to be sent back to the third world countries where they belong. I'll admit that I need to put more stock in torah, but it still does not change the fact that there is trash destroying our countries.
Given that my torah stock is low, I'll ask Chaim who is a tzadik to weigh in on this. If he tells me to give to the schwartza begging for change on the subway, then I will seriously consider it. of course Chaim hasn't yet asked anyone here to give to Haiti and I don't think doing so will result in our prayers being answered.
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I think that the culture out in NYC is different than where I am from (well, I know for a fact that it is). The only homeless schwartza's that I see out here, are drug dealers or gang bangers. Honestly, never as homeless (well, maybe one or two, but not many).
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You must open your hand to your brothers and sisters. That is the commandment. How you define your brothers and sisters is up to you. The first people who you should be giving to are your immediate family, your friends, your co-workers and those in your congregation. Then there is a type of charity which involves giving to total strangers. There is also a kind of giving which requires giving to people who don't necessarily deserve it. Each of these levels of giving correspond to a variety of commandments from the Torah.
Let me see if I can find another good reference on the internet.
Here is a good one which repeats what I referred to earlier, the gleanings of the corners of the field...
http://www.aish.com/jl/m/48944181.html
SIMPLE JUSTICE
Support for the disadvantaged in Judaism is not altruism. It is "justice." The Latin term for charity, caritas, implies an act of giving by the "haves" to the "have-nots" -- out of the goodness of their hearts. The "have-not's" may not be strictly deserving of the support because they didn't earn it, but the "haves" want to be merciful and so they share their wealth.
Contrariwise, in Judaism, the term for charity is tzedakah, which derives from tzedek, which means "justice."
G-d gave limited resources to people. Some garner a greater share, some a lesser share. But since all are created equally in the image of G-d, there is a duty that devolves upon the "haves" to give of their substance to the "have-nots" in order to effect justice and to enable the have-nots to survive, as they themselves do.
The laws of charity -- as listed in the Torah -- are described in agricultural terms:
And when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap all the way to the edges of your field, or gather the gleanings of your harvest; you shall leave them for the poor and the stranger. I, the Lord, am your G-d. (Leviticus 23:22)
When you reap the harvest in your field and overlook a sheaf in the field, do not turn back to get it; it shall go to the stranger, the fatherless and the widow ... (Deut. 24:19-22)
Every third year, you shall bring out a full tithe of your yield of that year, but leave it within your settlements. Then ... the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow in your settlements shall come and eat their fill ... (Deut. 14:28-29).
Explains Maimonides that in the cases described above, the owners of the fields exercise no control over which poor receive the leftover produce, the product of their beneficence! Generally one designates the recipient of one's charity: "A poor man who is a relative, comes before all others," etc. But here the owners have absolutely no rights of selection. The poor come into the field and take their due from the owners -- by right!
The poor come into the field and take their due from the owners -- by right!
Although we do not live in an agricultural society, these laws translate into our economy. The knowledge that Jews are obligated to give these kinds of funds and to operate under such a definition of charity might deter some converts, Rashi explains, so it is necessary to inform them of this in advance. Such is the obligation and such the glory of the Jewish religion.
That Jews are known for their charitable ways is no aberration of history. Giving is indigenous to this people and it echoes through the long corridors of Jewish history, from the brittle voices of ancient ancestors to the tzedakah songs of kindergartners in today's Hebrew day schools.
I have learned that the best way to give charity to a person, if possible, is to give him a job so that he may earn the money. I have been able to provide this level of Tzadeka to a couple of people. Usually the poor people I give to are not bums who hang out in front of liquor stores. I think that you are taking what I am saying to apply to people who are parasites. Torah doesn't require us to feed parasites. But the vast majority of the underpriveledged and homeless people I have encountered are not hopeless alcoholics or gangsters.
But we cannot lump all homeless people or poor people into a category where they are despised. So much of Judaism requires that we provide for others and extend kindness to our brothers and neighbors.
http://www.shemayisrael.com/Parasha/kahn/archives/vayera68.htm
http://www.vbm-torah.org/yyerush/tzedaka.htm
With regards to the allocation of charity, there are existing criteria - family members receive preferential treatment followed by local residents; talmidei chakhamim take preference over the unlearned. In addition, the Shulchan Arukh (Yoreh Deah 251) states that residents of Israel take precedence over Jews of the Diaspora. However, no special mention of Jerusalem is made. Nonetheless, the Chatam Sofer generates a new category which favors residents of Yerushalayim. The source for this is the commentary of the Ran to a sugya in Kiddushin (33b).
The gemara in Kiddushin discusses the mitzva of standing up as a sign of respect when a talmid chakham, parent, or elderly person enters the room. The gemara questions whether a teacher should stand for his father who is also his student, and cites an episode in which Rav Yehuda was urged to stand for his father, Rav Yechezka'el (who was also his pupil). This seemingly proves that a son is never exempt from rising in his father's honor, even if he is his father's Rebbi. However, the gemara rebuffs this proof and claims that Rav Yehuda's father (Rav Yechezka'el) is an exception since he was known as a 'ba'al ma'asim' - someone who performed outstanding mitzvot. As such, this father was deserving of respect both because he was a parent AND a well-known righteous man. One who is not renowned as such (and is also a pupil of his son) might not receive the same treatment.
The Ran deduces from this passage that anyone who is scrupulous in his performance of the mitzvot deserves the same signs of respect that a talmid chakham or elderly person receive. In fact, according to the Ran, a talmid chakham is deserving of our respect ONLY because his erudition will ultimately lead to the performance of mitzvot. Hence the Ran claims there are four people for whom we must stand - a parent, talmid chakham, elderly person, and one who is a ba'al ma'asim.
The Chatam Sofer infers from the statement of the Ran that the attribute of mitzva performance can establish priority in a situation where two people are otherwise equal in stature. The entire question of the gemara was posed based upon the parity between a son (who must stand for his father) and a father-pupil (who must stand for his Rebbi-son). The fact that the father in this case is ALSO a ba'al ma'asim tilts the situation in his favor. Not only does this trait mandate a show of respect but it also tilts the scale in a case in which two people were otherwise equal.
http://www.torah.org/learning/business-ethics/vayigash.html
It must be stressed that this obligation doesn't flow from any concept of mutual utility but rather from an understanding that the Fatherhood of God is necessarily translated into the Brotherhood of Mankind. In Judaism, not only is there a vertical relationship between Man and God but also a horizontal relationship between people created in His Image. This is highlighted by the halakhah that we are obligated to support the poor of the nations of the world together with those of Israel. (Tosefta Gittin, chapter 3; Mishneh Torah Shmittah ve Yovel chapter8, halakhah 8; Tur, Choshen Mishpat section 249, subsection 2- see there Prisha, Bach, Taz,Shach).
All the Codes rank the types of charity in a descending order, one that has much significance for present -day welfare issues. At the highest level is the charity that provides employment, makes available funds or knowledge enabling the unemployed or the poor to establish a business, or that in any way prevents people from sinking into poverty and enables them to break the poverty cycle. At the macro economic level this would be translated into public policy of providing employment, technical education and appropriate funding for new business, rather than a continuation of handouts of basic necessities that only perpetuates poverty. If it is not possible for the individual to fund the needs of the poor they are obligated to bring it to the notice of the authorities so they may then use tax money to solve the problem (Ramah, Yoreh Deah, section 250, subsection 1).
Like in everything else in life, there are limitations imposed by the halakhah on charity. "We are not obligated to make the poor rich but only to keep them alive" (Mishneh Torah, Matnot Aniyim,Chapter 7, halakhah 3). Only a person who has net equity of less than 200 zuz [considered enough for a year's sustenance] can avail himself of the agricultural gifts to the poor dictated by Torah and only one who does not have 14 meals for the week or 2 meals for that day may avail themselves of the communal food funds (op. cit, chapter 9, halakhah 13. See also Yoreh Deah, section 250, subsection 4, for similar restrictions). Irrespective of how we define the minimum standards of living to be provided by charity, this concept places a limit on a society's obligation to give. It should be born in mind that there is no society in the world that can provide freely everything that a person needs or wants; a reaction to overshooting in welfare costs is shown in the drastic cuts in welfare payments and the social safety net that we witness in Western economies in last decades.
PS: As a matter of 'coincidence' tonight I am finally sending in my pledges to several Israeli and Jewish charities... I just got my juicy Income Tax refund check yesterday...
PPS: Sorry I kept editing this...
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There is a saying that a picture says a thousand words.
(http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/seeingpoverty/images/convention.jpg)
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At the Kotel, there are a lot of Jewish beggars...It is in this area that I feel most comfortable given to the poor.
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I'm sorry, but I do not agree.
I respect your opinion, but keep in mind that giving them money does not help them. It only helps them breed so they can create more homeless to suffer.
MANY homeless in the USA are Veteran's, people who served in our country and many times, fought in wars.
That's what Hollywood wants you to think. Veterans constitute very few. Honorably discharged veterans account for much less.
MANY are women or women with children.
The left's emotional strategy.
MANY are now living in tents, etc due to the housing crisis.
Guess who caused the housing crisis. It was not only the bank and the government. It was the people who bought houses they could not afford with money they did not have. They brought the cost of homes to unreasonable prices and made it more difficult for people who really should buy homes to buy them.
Once again, human beings are not trash.
I don't think of the majority of homeless bums as human.
Shalom.
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Takebackourtemple, I normally give to those who do not ask, like an old women with a shopping cart, or a man who has a blanket wrapped about him and he's speaking to himself...you can usually tell if they are scammers or they are truly in need. Normally the truly needy or mentally ill will not ask for money.
There have been times when I have offered money to homeless people and they have refused the money because they were paranoid and scared.
Some homeless people are bums, and many others are not.
Sometimes you can ( view ) the situation and make your decision from there.
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I almost never find a truely poor person in the streets.
Almost all of them are professional beggers.
Most of the people who are truely homeless are either in a shelter or are on the streets for not very long.
So it is best not to give to anyone on the streets.
If in doubt, why not just walk up to the person in question and ask him?
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I think that you are misunderstanding the reasons for tzadeka... It is not only to help the poor person, but it is to help the giver more... A person who gives tzedaka, even to those who don't necessarily deserve it, are fufilling a mitzvah which rewards the giver even more than the receiver.
I find it hard to believe that a Jew doesn't understand the importance of giving to people who are less fortunate than themselves. There is great satisfaction, which is the reward in this world, and there is a greater reward in the world to come.
Also a poor person is not human trash, nor is he/she less important than a rich man... Blessing in this world is given and withheld by Hashem himself... We must act mercifully with all humans, even those who may not be the best people, because Hashem commanded the Jewish people to do so.
I never look at less fortunate people as less than human.. To do so would violate our Torah commandments.
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From JewFAQ: http://www.jewfaq.org/tzedakah.htm
The Meaning of the Word "Tzedakah"
"Tzedakah" is the Hebrew word for the acts that we call "charity" in English: giving aid, assistance and money to the poor and needy or to other worthy causes. However, the nature of tzedakah is very different from the idea of charity. The word "charity" suggests benevolence and generosity, a magnanimous act by the wealthy and powerful for the benefit of the poor and needy. The word "tzedakah" is derived from the Hebrew root Tzadei-Dalet-Qof, meaning righteousness, justice or fairness. In Judaism, giving to the poor is not viewed as a generous, magnanimous act; it is simply an act of justice and righteousness, the performance of a duty, giving the poor their due.
The Obligation of Tzedakah
Giving to the poor is an obligation in Judaism, a duty that cannot be forsaken even by those who are themselves in need. Some sages have said that tzedakah is the highest of all commandments, equal to all of them combined, and that a person who does not perform tzedakah is equivalent to an idol worshipper. This is probably hyperbole, but it illustrates the importance of tzedakah in Jewish thought. Tzedakah is one of the three acts that gain us forgiveness from our sins. The High Holiday liturgy repeatedly states that G-d has inscribed a judgment against all who have sinned, but teshuvah (repentance), tefilah (prayer) and tzedakah can alleviate the decree. See Days of Awe.
According to Jewish law, we are required to give one-tenth of our income to the poor. This is generally interpreted as one-tenth of our net income after payment of taxes. Taxes themselves do not fulfill our obligation to give tzedakah, even though a significant portion of tax revenues in America and many other countries are used to provide for the poor and needy. Those who are dependent on public assistance or living on the edge of subsistence may give less, but must still give to the extent they are able; however, no person should give so much that he would become a public burden.
The obligation to perform tzedakah can be fulfilled by giving money to the poor, to health care institutions, to synagogues or to educational institutions. It can also be fulfilled by supporting your children beyond the age when you are legally required to, or supporting your parents in their old age. The obligation includes giving to both Jews and gentiles; contrary to popular belief, Jews do not just "take care of our own." Quite the contrary, a study reported in the Jewish Journal indicated that Jewish "mega-donors" (who give more than $10 million a year to charity) found that only 6% of their mega-dollars went to specifically Jewish causes.
Judaism acknowledges that many people who ask for charity have no genuine need. In fact, the Talmud suggests that this is a good thing: if all people who asked for charity were in genuine need, we would be subject to punishment (from G-d) for refusing anyone who asked. The existence of frauds diminishes our liability for failing to give to all who ask, because we have some legitimate basis for doubting the beggar's sincerity. It is permissible to investigate the legitimacy of a charity before donating to it.
We have an obligation to avoid becoming in need of tzedakah. A person should take any work that is available, even if he thinks it is beneath his dignity, to avoid becoming a public charge.
However, if a person is truly in need and has no way to obtain money on his own he should not feel embarrassed to accept tzedakah. No person should feel too proud to take money from others. In fact, it is considered a transgression to refuse tzedakah. One source says that to make yourself suffer by refusing to accept tzedakah is equivalent to shedding your own blood.
Levels of Tzedakah
Certain kinds of tzedakah are considered more meritorious than others. The Talmud describes these different levels of tzedakah, and Rambam organized them into a list. The levels of charity, from the least meritorious to the most meritorious, are:
1. Giving begrudgingly
2. Giving less that you should, but giving it cheerfully.
3. Giving after being asked
4. Giving before being asked
5. Giving when you do not know the recipient's identity, but the recipient knows your identity
6. Giving when you know the recipient's identity, but the recipient doesn't know your identity
7. Giving when neither party knows the other's identity
8. Enabling the recipient to become self-reliant
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It is equally important to give to the needy in a way that they keep their dignity....for example if you give to a homeless person, you could say to them " Hey, I saw this 10 dollar bill fall out of your pocket "
so I am returning it to you.
My Grandmother had a beggar who came to her door once a week for food, and my Mother told me that her Mom would say to the beggar at the door " why I have been expecting you for lunch - what took so long! " My Grandmother fed the beggar and made him feel very welcome in her home.
This was one of the lessons my Grandfather taught his wife and 10 children....when doing zadaka or a mitzvah it's important to give them their dignity at the same time.
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I think that you are misunderstanding the reasons for tzadeka... It is not only to help the poor person, but it is to help the giver more... A person who gives tzedaka, even to those who don't necessarily deserve it, are fufilling a mitzvah which rewards the giver even more than the receiver.
I think there's a danger there. If you give in order to get the reward, could it be considered selfish giving and not be counted as a mitzvah at all?
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It is equally important to give to the needy in a way that they keep their dignity....for example if you give to a homeless person, you could say to them " Hey, I saw this 10 dollar bill fall out of your pocket "
so I am returning it to you.
My Grandmother had a beggar who came to her door once a week for food, and my Mother told me that her Mom would say to the beggar at the door " why I have been expecting you for lunch - what took so long! " My Grandmother fed the beggar and made him feel very welcome in her home.
This was one of the lessons my Grandfather taught his wife and 10 children....when doing zadaka or a mitzvah it's important to give them their dignity at the same time.
That's a good idea. Next time you see a drunken smelly [censored] in the streets, bring him in for dinner.
I'll be looking you up in the newspaper.
I take it your mother lived in a much different time where her streets were safer.
I've been poor all my life. I was born in a straw hut in China thanks to long-live-chairman-mao [or ten thousand years]. During my entire youth, I remember only hunger. This is true up until I was in my late 20s. In the Socialist States of America there is no reason to be homeless for long.
In New York, I'd say, if you can't make it here, its because you are a lazy bum.
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Chinese Kahanist, you are correct in saying that those times were different. That much is true.
As for myself I have lived over half a Century and I make my judgments accordingly, anyone that assumes I would make such a stupid decision as to invite some drunk into my home just does not know me personally, or my ability to make wise decisions.
You assume the worst case senario based on what I said about giving them their dignity...
Being charitable & compassionate does not necessarily mean one is foolish.
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I would never be able to make it in New York with the price of housing there, so that makes me a lazy bum?
wow.
It is equally important to give to the needy in a way that they keep their dignity....for example if you give to a homeless person, you could say to them " Hey, I saw this 10 dollar bill fall out of your pocket "
so I am returning it to you.
My Grandmother had a beggar who came to her door once a week for food, and my Mother told me that her Mom would say to the beggar at the door " why I have been expecting you for lunch - what took so long! " My Grandmother fed the beggar and made him feel very welcome in her home.
This was one of the lessons my Grandfather taught his wife and 10 children....when doing zadaka or a mitzvah it's important to give them their dignity at the same time.
That's a good idea. Next time you see a drunken smelly schvartza in the streets, bring him in for dinner.
I'll be looking you up in the newspaper.
I take it your mother lived in a much different time where her streets were safer.
I've been poor all my life. I was born in a straw hut in China thanks to long-live-chairman-mao [or ten thousand years]. During my entire youth, I remember only hunger. This is true up until I was in my late 20s. In the Socialist States of America there is no reason to be homeless for long.
In New York, I'd say, if you can't make it here, its because you are a lazy bum.
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Chinese Kahanist, you are correct in saying that those times were different. That much is true.
As for myself I have lived over half a Century and I make my judgments accordingly, anyone that assumes I would make such a stupid decision as to invite some drunk into my home just does not know me personally, or my ability to make wise decisions.
You assume the worst case senario based on what I said about giving them their dignity...
Being charitable & compassionate does not necessarily mean one is foolish.
You are right Dox, but some people are just unkind... They need to put people down to a lower level in order to feel good about themselves. This is a sign that they are not Jewish... Charity is so deeply entrenched in Jewish thought that a person who doesn't give to the poor is immediately assumed to be non-Jewish.
One doesn't have to look for undesirable people who are poor, there are many unfortunate souls in this world. And there is much work to do to bring them back to their higher state.
As I have said, I have helped homeless people get back on their feet... It is a wonderful feeling to know that I can help people like this...
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Muman, that was kind of you to help the homeless back on their feet...may G-d take note of your mitzvah's.
P.S. Thank you for your kind words.
Shalom - Dox
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I have a different view on this issue. There are plenty of nicer places to live. Even if a metropolitan area is desired.
If someone can't afford to live in New York(which most New Yorkers can't), the solution is to leave. Living in New York and complaining about not being able to pay the rent is like placing a hand in a blender and complaining about it being cut.
People who can afford to live in New York should also leave, because their taxes are funding all sorts of socialist garbage. At least some states have no income tax. I wish Israel had no income tax. It's criminal that the traitors in parliament can tax good Israeli citizens 45% so the Muslim Nazis can have handouts.
All Jews should go to Israel, but considering that many of us are in Gullus, New York is not the place to be. All the Kosher shops and stores should pack up and move somewhere else so people can't use them as a lame excuse to stay. This can only happen if the people get up and move first. Fortunately I don't live in New York, but I still have to take trips up there every once in a while. I really hate NYC.
I would never be able to make it in New York with the price of housing there, so that makes me a lazy bum?
wow.
It is equally important to give to the needy in a way that they keep their dignity....for example if you give to a homeless person, you could say to them " Hey, I saw this 10 dollar bill fall out of your pocket "
so I am returning it to you.
My Grandmother had a beggar who came to her door once a week for food, and my Mother told me that her Mom would say to the beggar at the door " why I have been expecting you for lunch - what took so long! " My Grandmother fed the beggar and made him feel very welcome in her home.
This was one of the lessons my Grandfather taught his wife and 10 children....when doing zadaka or a mitzvah it's important to give them their dignity at the same time.
That's a good idea. Next time you see a drunken smelly schvartza in the streets, bring him in for dinner.
I'll be looking you up in the newspaper.
I take it your mother lived in a much different time where her streets were safer.
I've been poor all my life. I was born in a straw hut in China thanks to long-live-chairman-mao [or ten thousand years]. During my entire youth, I remember only hunger. This is true up until I was in my late 20s. In the Socialist States of America there is no reason to be homeless for long.
In New York, I'd say, if you can't make it here, its because you are a lazy bum.
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I almost never find a truely poor person in the streets.
Almost all of them are professional beggers.
Most of the people who are truely homeless are either in a shelter or are on the streets for not very long.
So it is best not to give to anyone on the streets.
If in doubt, why not just walk up to the person in question and ask him?
You hit the nail on the head here.
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TakebackourTemple,
We all had good arguments about it and some of us had good points.
Main thing is you brought this important issue to light, so Thanks!
Shalom - Dox
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We are scum now?
My familly was always poor. No one helped. We were considered lower than scum.
What did we do? Work at drek jobs.
Hey all you nice sympathetic saviors out there! Wheres your symphaty for me!!!??? I was poor!
It just goes to show what a bunch of .... never mind I don't want to offend.
I notice how all the "nice" people out there are the most cruel and nasty. Yeah, you better be nice or else I'll kill you! You're not nice, you're scum.
Where's my damn symphaty?
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Angry Chinese Kahanist, if it is any consolation to you, there were times when we didn't have any food in our pantry. There were times when my parents were broke and we had to make do with whatever we had.
I remember going hungry at times. My parents were at work so out of desperation, I ate dry dog food from the garage because there was nothing to eat in the house.
You went through some hard times, many of us did.
Now my advise is this:
Don't allow the bitterness you feel to get in the way of you being charitable.
G-d is watching you....
Shalom & may G-d Bless you
Dox