JTF.ORG Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: muman613 on May 03, 2010, 01:28:23 AM
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Great news... The NK Rabbi has just gone off to spend his time in purgatory.. This is a time of celebration for those zionists who see NK as a sect full of self-hating Jews who have no part in the land of Israel....
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137337
Neturei Karta Rabbi Dead at 86
Iyar 19, 5770, 03 May 10 09:28
by Maayana Miskin
(Israelnationalnews.com) Moshe Hirsch, leader of the extremist anti-Zionist sect Neturei Karta, died on Sunday in Jerusalem at age 86.
Neturei Karta, a small hareidi-religious group founded in 1935, is distinguished from other anti-Zionist Jewish groups by its active support for Israel's enemies. Members of the group have met with – and expressed support for – Arab and Muslim leaders such as Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Hirsch, who was born in New York but spent much of his life in Jerusalem, referred to Israel as “occupied Palestinian territory.” He first met Arafat while the latter was leading a campaign of terrorism against Israelis, and when Arafat died, Hirsch mourned him as “a great leader.”
Neturei Karta has been largely disowned by the rest of the Jewish world, including the anti-Zionist hareidi-religious camp which it claims to represent. In 2006, the large anti-Zionist Satmar community led by Rabbi Zalman Leib Teitlebaum put several Neturei Karta members, including Hirsch's son, in cherem (excommunication) after they visited Iran and attended a Holocaust denial conference.
The group is relatively tiny, claiming only several thousand members, only a handful of whom take part in such activities as meeting Arab leaders and supporting terrorism. However, it tends to receive widespread media attention, due largely to the shock value of seeing Jews in hareidi-religious apparel shaking hands with avowed anti-Israel terrorists or burning the Israeli flag.
Hirsch was buried Sunday on the Mount of Olives (Har HaZeitim) in Jerusalem. His funeral was disrupted by a group of religious Jews who saw his passing as cause for celebration and who called out the Biblical verse, “There is joy when the wicked die.”
Hirsch is likely to be succeeded by his son, Rabbi Yisrael Meir Hirsch, who has increasingly taken on leadership of Neturei Karta in recent years, as his elderly father was often ill. The younger Hirsch, like his father, believes in forging ties with Arab and Muslim leaders, including the heads of terrorist groups such as Hamas, with the goal of eliminating the State of Israel and replacing it with an Arab state in which non-Zionist Jews will be a tolerated minority.
Did I happen to mention that I won't miss this poor excuse for a Jew...
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:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:
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Oy Vei. How can anyone celebrate the passing away of a fellow Jew. In fact, I stronglly disagree with NK and their meeting with enemies. I am a Gentile and have only learnt a little Hallacha while aiming to convert, and according to my little knowledge, NK borders malshinut. But celebrating this news is too much!!! It would be a reason to celebrate if that Rav had changed his views.
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Oy Vei. How can anyone celebrate the passing away of a fellow Jew. In fact, I stronglly disagree with NK and their meeting with enemies. I am a Gentile and have only learnt a little Hallacha while aiming to convert, and according to my little knowledge, NK borders malshinut. But celebrating this news is too much!!! It would be a reason to celebrate if that Rav had changed his views.
I agree entirely.
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I don 't know him, but if he is a part of Naturie Karta, I'm glad he died. Quite glad.
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As soon as he got to hell he probably made a beeline for Hitler so he could give him a kiss according to the Neturei Karta tradition with Jew-hating dictators.
Yes as well as the mufti
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took long enough ..he was not a rabbi.
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One should drink some extra 3 litres of mineral water and visit his grave. But it should be punishment enough for him to be buried in Israel though...
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Rav Shmuel Eliyahu disagrees with you, Raulmarrio2000 (didn't find an English link)
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3884044,00.html
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I wrote NK website several times rebuking them for their sin of standing idle as their brothers blood was spilled... I must have written at least 3 rebukes to them... I have every right to hate them since they did not change their evil ways. It is a mitzvah to hate those who are evil and NK are some of the MOST EVIL of all Jews...
Obviously Raulmarrio2000 we would celebrate if NK admitted its error and changed its ways... But the fact that they stand and claim their evil is indeed the truth is enough for me to believe that they will be wiped out eventually... When they stand against the Jewish people and the will of Hashem they are evil and they deserve any misfortune which befalls them... May they soon regret their sorry anti-zionist position.
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Oy Vei. How can anyone celebrate the passing away of a fellow Jew. In fact, I stronglly disagree with NK and their meeting with enemies. I am a Gentile and have only learnt a little Hallacha while aiming to convert, and according to my little knowledge, NK borders malshinut. But celebrating this news is too much!!! It would be a reason to celebrate if that Rav had changed his views.
, First become a full Jew , learn your stuff then open your mouth; "its not your peoples blood being spilled its ours". Kahane ..I know you are excited about learning new stuff my friend , but you must (to use the vernacular) chill on that sympathy for those Muslim lovers
Don't throw words like "malshinut" thinking you are learned. Its a mitzva to criticize evil "leaders", its that mentality that condoned the rabbis who said to stay in Europe during the Holocaust. there is an important mitzva in the Torah called michamet mitzva look at Rabbi Kahane's videos on youtube , and learn something constructive for once! ..instead of babbling nonsense in Hebrew terms.
The Talmud stated and Chaim also said this in this weeks programs the face of leaders in the time of messiah will be like dogs This Nk leader that dropped dead is a prime example.
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...That was good Lol :laugh: :::D
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Re:
Member Raulmarrio has asked a legitimate question directed to "anyone" and stated his opinion on the matter based on his present knowledge and experience.
Member 18chai, you have not answered his question, but engaged in what is known as an ad hominum attack, which is an underhanded tactic whereby one deflects from themselves their inability to answer with a well reasoned argument by directly attacking the person with whom they should be debating and reasoning.
Member 18chai, why don't you offer your sincere apology to Raulmarrio, followed by a researched scholarly reply as to why it is that certain Jews' deaths can be celebrated?
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Its a mitzva to criticize evil "leaders",
to criticise evil Jewish leaders is one thing, but to joyously celebrate their death is surely another?
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Since these traitor Jews only effect other Jews, (I think in my opinion) that the ones who are effected by these traitor Jews only have the right to condemn them.
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Its a mitzva to criticize evil "leaders",
to criticise evil Jewish leaders is one thing, but to joyously celebrate their death is surely another?
On the contrary , I morn that such a person in a position of authority didn't make tesuva ..the good he could of done if only he changed his way, but now its to late , he is dead and he cant change his stance.
I do however celebrate that he cant harm anymore Jews. :dance:
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Re:
Member Raulmarrio has asked a legitimate question directed to "anyone" and stated his opinion on the matter based on his present knowledge and experience.
Member 18chai, you have not answered his question, but engaged in what is known as an ad hominum attack, which is an underhanded tactic whereby one deflects from themselves their inability to answer with a well reasoned argument by directly attacking the person with whom they should be debating and reasoning.
Member 18chai, why don't you offer your sincere apology to Raulmarrio, followed by a researched scholarly reply as to why it is that certain Jews' deaths can be celebrated?
Incorrect , the argument is already presented by rabbi Kahane , as i stated "Torah called it a michamet mitzva look at Rabbi Kahane's videos on youtube" so i wont plagiarize his work take a look,
to sum it up? again, milchemt mitzva , its a mitzva to go to war a mitzva that we have the opportunity to do now ! and any rabbi that takes away a mitzva and goes AGAINST the framework of jewish law is really just a reform rabbi... no "ad hock" just the word of our great leader in response to that type of mentality and we need to celebrate (i thought it was obvious that he cant hurt anymore Jews with his nonsense)... check mate have a nice day..if anything he needs to reconsider. .. he did ask question and i answered and here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sslW64HSTBU
i gave sum up and a link to a vid i am doing more work then should ,but the chance i can save a persons soul i will take it! even if its unpopular.
maybe you should watch this as well my friend?
Thanks for giving the forum some steam today and no need to label me because the celebration is an end of this mans tyranny and brain washing.
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If you want it in mathematical terms ;
Reform Rabbi (who pretends to be orthodox) + Pro Arab + Pro death of Israeli Jews = celebration of end of such a leader. if you want you can you can factor and cancel these terms haha just remember what you do to one side of the = sign you have to do to the other. :::D
now im gonan dance :dance:
ps dont forget pemdas or order of operations (parentheses first )
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I think that there needs to be some clarification. A Torah Jew does not need to hate anyone, G-d Forbid his co-religionists. But there are times, especially when dealing with what we call self-hating Jews and far from normative 'Judaism' such as NK, when we are obliged to hate them in our hearts.
Torah clearly says it is a mitzvah to rebuke our fellow when he or she is in violation of Torah law. The wording of the mitzvah indicates that we are to Rebuke them so as to not be responsible for their sins. A Jew who doesn't stand up against a Jew who is doing wrong is just as guilty as the one who does the sin... As a result Hashem gave us the mitzvah of Rebuke.
Our sages have elaborated on this commandment... According to my understanding we must rebuke the evildoer first gently and with the intention of getting them to change their evil ways. If this rebuke is not headed, and the rebuke occurs before witnesses, and the evildoer continues his evil ways we are permitted to speak about them, and to even raise the level of hatred against this person, or group. Hating the evil is a commandment also. The purpose of the hatred is to get the evildoer to realize he is wrong and change his ways.
We get no satisfaction in seeing good Jews going down the wrong path. It is wrong to gloat and to celebrate the pain of others. But in cases of evil we are supposed to celebrate the destruction of the wicked.
Case in point is the Song at the Sea which the Israelites sang at the shore of the Reed Sea... The Israelites sang this song while the Egyptians were lying dead on the seashore... The Angels also wanted to sing but Hashem told them they were not allowed to sing because every human being is made in Hashems image, therefore it would be innappropriate for the angels to sing.... But the Israelites were allowed to sing because they were victimized by the cruel Mitzrim/Egyptians.
When I call on people to celebrate the passing of the NK 'rabbi' I only mean to celebrate the destruction of the evil which NK represents in the world. These NK are worse than the sin of the spies and the sin of the golden calf combined. I will celebrate when all wickedness is removed from this world...
“You shall not hate your brother in your heart; you shall reprove your fellow and do not bear a sin because of him.” —
Vayikra 19:17
http://www.nishma.org/articles/insight/insight5757-23.htm
Hatred is ultimately the human emotional reaction to that which offends us and, as such, in itself, hatred is neither good nor bad. The nature of the stimulus which causes us to hate, which offends us, obviously is a factor in our determination of whether the hatred is acceptable or not. We are indeed called upon to hate evil.4 The mitzvot of lo tisna and choche'ach tochi'ach, though, further inform us that the determination of hate as positive or negative is also dependent on how we respond to the hate. To be positive, our emotion of hate must also demand of us that we confront evil and attempt to correct the wrong. Remarkably, in that process, we also gain knowledge of the true enemy, the true nature of the offensive stimulus, and the essence of the hate itself also changes.
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If we here at JTF were to joyously celebrate with the death of each evil Jewish leader, then life would be a never ending holiday.
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באבוד רשעים רינה
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If we here at JTF were to joyously celebrate with the death of each evil Jewish leader, then life would be a never ending holiday.
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its in the Amida prayers , we wish for this 3x a day , for the heretics and informers let there be no hope let the wicked perish in an instant"...n/k are the informers
Should we not celebrate when the messiah comes as well because he will destroy all of Islam? Well i for one am tiered of feeling bad for the informers and the hillul Hashem they make.... more then that,... what they do isn't even normal!
I will continue to pray for the demise of such people and now that g-d has answered it I rejoice , eat your heart out.
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I wrote NK website several times rebuking them for their sin of standing idle as their brothers blood was spilled... I must have written at least 3 rebukes to them... I have every right to hate them since they did not change their evil ways. It is a mitzvah to hate those who are evil and NK are some of the MOST EVIL of all Jews...
Obviously Raulmarrio2000 we would celebrate if NK admitted its error and changed its ways... But the fact that they stand and claim their evil is indeed the truth is enough for me to believe that they will be wiped out eventually... When they stand against the Jewish people and the will of Hashem they are evil and they deserve any misfortune which befalls them... May they soon regret their sorry anti-zionist position.
Good that you wrote them and rebuked them. I will cont to rebuke and hope the VERY WORST for Left wing Jews that REFUSE G-d, that REFUSE to be loyal.
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Oy Vei. How can anyone celebrate the passing away of a fellow Jew. In fact, I stronglly disagree with NK and their meeting with enemies. I am a Gentile and have only learnt a little Hallacha while aiming to convert, and according to my little knowledge, NK borders malshinut. But celebrating this news is too much!!! It would be a reason to celebrate if that Rav had changed his views.
, First become a full Jew , learn your stuff then open your mouth; "its not your peoples blood being spilled its ours". Kahane ..I know you are excited about learning new stuff my friend , but you must (to use the vernacular) chill on that sympathy for those Muslim lovers
Don't throw words like "malshinut" thinking you are learned. Its a mitzva to criticize evil "leaders", its that mentality that condoned the rabbis who said to stay in Europe during the Holocaust. there is an important mitzva in the Torah called michamet mitzva look at Rabbi Kahane's videos on youtube , and learn something constructive for once! ..instead of babbling nonsense in Hebrew terms.
The Talmud stated and Chaim also said this in this weeks programs the face of leaders in the time of messiah will be like dogs This Nk leader that dropped dead is a prime example.
18chai, is it too difficult to read posts properly? I said that I believe NK would qualify as Malshins (informers) but even though I oppose celebrating these news about their Rav.
It seems that you read the reverse and understood that I accussed those who criticize NK of Malshinut.
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oh sorry yes i do i made an error then , Im big enough to admit I .. I did think you meant the reverse ..but I dont think they border ...rather, that they go above and beyond the call of duty ..when it comes to insanity and baseless hatred toward Jews (sinat-chinum)
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And thus evil is swept from our midst.
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Baruch Dayan Emet!
My 2 cents ! This man gave aid and comfort to Arafat and Iran. He is a traitor and deserved to be executed. In a world with Torah justice, he would have been brought to a river and stoned to death by his neighbors. The Jewish world is a better place without him and I will bet my Olam Habah on that. He has misled other NK down a path to Gehenom!
Nekama!
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It seems that Rabbi Eliyahu agrees with me that Moshe Hirsch deserves to be cursed...
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137365
R. Eliyahu Slams Neturei Karta Chief, PA Claims Meah She'arim
Iyar 20, 5770, 04 May 10 03:22
by Hillel Fendel
(Israelnationalnews.com) Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu, the Chief Rabbi of Tzfat, says that Moshe Hirsch of Neturei Karta should not have been buried in a Jewish cemetery, and that now that he has been buried there, no other Jews should be buried nearby.
Hirsch, who died over the Sabbath and was buried on Sunday at the ancient Mt. of Olives cemetery in Jerusalem, was the top leader of the anti-Zionist Neturei Karta sect. He encouraged and met often with Yasser Arafat, and his followers have also met with Iran's Mahmoud Ahmedinajad, who denies the Holocaust.
Fatah: We Demand Meah She'arim
A delegation of formerly active Fatah terrorists even paid a consolation visit to Hirsch's family on Monday in the Meah She'arim neighborhood of Jerusalem - and threw in a demand for the neighborhood to be included in a future Palestinian Authority capital. Abdel Kader, reponsible for Jerusalem affairs on behalf of Fatah, participated in the visit and said afterwards, "We don't plan to give up our claim to Meah She'arim, nor to the Neturei Karta Jews there."
Meah She'arim lies on the UN recognized, Jewish side of the border that divided Jerusalem between 1948 and 1967. The visitors said it was their first official visit to the neighborhood.
Rabbi Eliyahu spoke on the new Judea-based Galei Yisrael radio station on Monday, using harsh language against Hirsch: "In my opinion, he should have been buried outside the cemetery… This person took himself out of the nationhood of Israel; he is a heretic. 'The name of evil ones should rot' [a verse in Proverbs]. We are blessed to have been exempted from him; the verse 'when the wicked are lost, there is joy' [also in Proverbs] applies to this situation."
Arafat named Hirsch his "Minister for Jewish Affairs" in the Palestinian Authority. He or his followers often demonstrated around the world against the Jewish State and in favor of Arab rule in Israel.
Rabbi Eliyahu is the son of the former Chief Rabbi of Israel, Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, who has been hospitalized in serious condition for several months.
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Baruch Dayan Emet!
My 2 cents ! This man gave aid and comfort to Arafat and Iran. He is a traitor and deserved to be executed. In a world with Torah justice, he would have been brought to a river and stoned to death by his neighbors. The Jewish world is a better place without him and I will bet my Olam Habah on that. He has misled other NK down a path to Gehenom!
Nekama!
Have to agree.
However, there are more than just moishe hirsh of the Naturei Karta that fits into this category of praising yasser arafat y''s v zichro and giving aid and comfort to our enemies. The list is miles long. And I feel the same way about all of them.
This event actually raises an interesting question . What is the difference between Naturei Karta and the Shas party if the Shas party signed the Oslo accords and they could not have happened without that signature? What is the difference between this know-nothing meaningless NK-sect so-called rabbi and a guy like yitzhak rabin, olmert, bibi, ehud barak or shimon peres. They ALL want to give away our homeland to arab terrorists. They ALL claim that the arabs have "rights" to our homeland. They all fit the same category, only moshele and the nk-ites are powerless to do anything about it. Meanwhile, Peres et al have invited these terrorist animals into israel, given them weapons and funding, and have the world media platform on a regular basis. And they have actually tried to give the land away.
So now let us ponder, what is the difference with the phony religious group NK and the secular zionist politicians who agree to the same principles?
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If we here at JTF were to joyously celebrate with the death of each evil Jewish leader, then life would be a never ending holiday.
AMEN Massuh!
They celebrated the death of the Pharoah.
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It seems that Rabbi Eliyahu agrees with me that Moshe Hirsch deserves to be cursed...
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137365
R. Eliyahu Slams Neturei Karta Chief, PA Claims Meah She'arim
Iyar 20, 5770, 04 May 10 03:22
by Hillel Fendel
(Israelnationalnews.com) Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu, the Chief Rabbi of Tzfat, says that Moshe Hirsch of Neturei Karta should not have been buried in a Jewish cemetery, and that now that he has been buried there, no other Jews should be buried nearby.
Hirsch, who died over the Sabbath and was buried on Sunday at the ancient Mt. of Olives cemetery in Jerusalem, was the top leader of the anti-Zionist Neturei Karta sect. He encouraged and met often with Yasser Arafat, and his followers have also met with Iran's Mahmoud Ahmedinajad, who denies the Holocaust.
Fatah: We Demand Meah She'arim
A delegation of formerly active Fatah terrorists even paid a consolation visit to Hirsch's family on Monday in the Meah She'arim neighborhood of Jerusalem - and threw in a demand for the neighborhood to be included in a future Palestinian Authority capital. Abdel Kader, reponsible for Jerusalem affairs on behalf of Fatah, participated in the visit and said afterwards, "We don't plan to give up our claim to Meah She'arim, nor to the Neturei Karta Jews there."
Meah She'arim lies on the UN recognized, Jewish side of the border that divided Jerusalem between 1948 and 1967. The visitors said it was their first official visit to the neighborhood.
Rabbi Eliyahu spoke on the new Judea-based Galei Yisrael radio station on Monday, using harsh language against Hirsch: "In my opinion, he should have been buried outside the cemetery… This person took himself out of the nationhood of Israel; he is a heretic. 'The name of evil ones should rot' [a verse in Proverbs]. We are blessed to have been exempted from him; the verse 'when the wicked are lost, there is joy' [also in Proverbs] applies to this situation."
Arafat named Hirsch his "Minister for Jewish Affairs" in the Palestinian Authority. He or his followers often demonstrated around the world against the Jewish State and in favor of Arab rule in Israel.
Rabbi Eliyahu is the son of the former Chief Rabbi of Israel, Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, who has been hospitalized in serious condition for several months.
Amen.
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Jew or Non-Jew... if you're an enemy of Israel, then you're an enemy of the Jewish people. And if you leave this earth, then good riddance to you. And if you're a traitor to your own people, then doubly good riddance.